Newbie post-purchase doubts about a sapphire

[Avondale]

This website has been my recently found source of abundant knowledge for all things jewellery (seriously, I've been gobbling up the threads like a maniac), so I figured it would be the best place to ask.

Recently I fell in love with a blue sapphire (to be set in a ring), being sold by a local jeweler I've trusted for years to make jewellery for me. I don't usually go for gemstones but this particular one called to me and so I bought it and ordered a ring for it. After a mildly complicated string of events (that I'll spare you the necessary details of) I have some doubts.

Initially I intended to source a pair of sapphires to go with mine and to be made into earrings, however, now I'm not so sure that it's the best idea. Even though I love my ring, I can't deny it's a bit dark in certain lighting conditions. I'm not knowledgeable enough to determine what the colour/tone/etc. are or what the quality of the cut is. All I was told about it is that it's natural, heated and 2.11ct (previously 2.14, before getting recut in the process of the aforementioned string of events). The jeweler claimed it had excellent colour and clarity, and it is, in fact, pretty clean to the eye. (When I was initially considering it I was shown how to look though a magnifying glass and see the natural inclusions - they looked like god rays to me.)

This is what it looks like in daylight:


Indoors in the evening:


With as much light I could throw at it:


And a quick daylight video.

I'd very much appreciate your input on the matter. I hope I didn't make a mistake buying this sapphire but... did I? Would getting more like it be an even bigger mistake? At first I didn't think I overpaid for it (1k euro pre-tax) but now I'm doubting even that.

 

[chrono]

What do you mean specifically by "made a mistake"? If you are past the return window, which I think you are, there's no recourse for regrets. I say wear and enjoy it.

If you are interested in more blue sapphires, take a look at various pictures, see more in person to decide which tone, hue and saturation you like best. It might be that you don't like the trade/market preferred blue and that's ok too.

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A colored stone grading system has long been the dream of gemologists since the late 1970's. This article examines the various problems of colored stone grading, explaining why the challenges are at least an order of magnitude greater than the grading of diamonds.

www.lotusgemology.com

 

[whitewave]

I would call that a deep royal blue. My cousin, for instance, loves dark sapphires. In her mind, only dark sapphires “look” like real sapphires.

it all depends on what you like. Look at Diana’s sapphire ring that the duchess of Cambridge now has…. It’s dark.

 

[Avondale]

What do you mean specifically by "made a mistake"? If you are past the return window, which I think you are, there's no recourse for regrets. I say wear and enjoy it.

I didn't mean it in terms of regret, more in terms of "what can be learned from this". My initial way of looking at it was the simplistic "oooh shiny, me likey, gimme!" without much consideration of everything else I've been learning about recently. On that subject, thank you for that link, it was a very educational read.

I'm concerned with (admittedly, very chaotic) thoughts about what I could have and should have asked the jeweler about; what additional factors and details I should've taken into account. Respectively, what I should consider for future purchases.

For example, I've been only recently learning about extinction and how it's due to the cut of the stone. I initially thought the sapphire I have was just dark but apparently the reason for it is precisely extinction? Automatically the question that comes to my mind is "well isn't it possible for the stone to be reshaped so that the amount of extinction present is lessened?"

And yes, now I'm thinking, knowing how this particular sapphire can turn practically black under low light conditions, that buying more like it is probably not the best idea, especially since I tend to wear jewellery sets for events which usually happen in the evening and in low light conditions. An everyday ring is one thing, it gets to enjoy all the daylight there is. Evening jewellery... not so much.

 

[pokerface]

If you've been frequenting PS, then you know that the biggest mistake here is buying a "natural" sapphire without a credible lab report. If the stone is synthetic, diffused, or pressure-treated, you've definitely overpaid. A jeweler who is well-versed in colored stones may be able to determine that a gem is pretty certainly untreated or almost certainly synthetic, but there's a lot of room in the middle where even an experienced, honest seller would not know. Any time I hear "heat," I am suspicious, because it would have to be heat ONLY to put this stone in the $1K price range.

 

[peacechick]

I personally don’t think you overpaid, considering it was a 2 ct sapphire from a brick and mortar shop. There will be a retail markup you expect to pay as compared to online prices. The colour is vivid and although there is a window, it’s personally within what I consider acceptable. For many regular jewelry shops (not specialized in coloured stones), this is probably the best type of sapphire they have.

Your mixed feelings may be due to the stone darkening after setting, especially now that you’re seeing it in normal everyday lighting. This is part of the learning process. However, do consider that a 2 ct trade ideal precision cut blue sapphire would not be in the 1k range unless it has major flaws.

I also think a possible factor could be that you may have had a difficult experience or miscommunication that tainted the joy of this new ring for you. I don’t know what happened to necessitate a recut, but if it got chipped, that’s enough for some people to not love the ring anymore. I hope your jeweler was able to make it up to you.

Ultimately if you know that you don’t love it and are still in the position to return it, you shouldn’t proceed. Or else, try to love it. Most people are not as particular as we are and will see a beautifully blue sapphire ring. My overly dark blue sapphire e-ring, purchased before my husband and I knew anything about gems, still has people noticing that it’s blue although it’s definitely inky.

 

[indigoblue]

It's a pretty color, and the setting is lovely. The window in the stone would bother me, but if you are OK with it, then wear and admire it. A lot of colored stones have tilt windows anyway, and since you rarely stare straight at a stone for any length of time while wearing it, windows are not always a huge deal. I was oblivious to the window in a tanzanite that was in a ring I bought on eBay early in my colored stone education. After realizing that the blank area in the center of the stone was a window, I became less enamored with the ring but still wear it. It's a learning process.

 

[Avondale]

and are still in the position to return it

Nuuuu I'm not returning it. I waited four months for it and if anyone wants to have it they'll have to pry it out of my cold dead fingers.
The reason a recut was necessary was because there were... issues... setting it, it had to be taken out of the setting and set again 3 or 4 times I think. My husband is the only one who saw the stone in its poor condition but the way he described it is "as if it was in a blender". I'm just happy I wasn't there at the time. Everything was fixed at no additional cost, aside from the minor loss in weight. But you're right, these events definitely lead me to some doubt about where I could've possibly made a mistake with my purchase and the way the whole thing was handled.

I was oblivious to the window in a tanzanite that was in a ring I bought on eBay early in my colored stone education.

I was oblivious to the one on my sapphire but you're right, it is windowed. Luckily it doesn't show while on a finger, the benefit of the darker tone I guess.

the biggest mistake here is buying a "natural" sapphire without a credible lab report

This is something I hadn't considered before with this particular jeweler. He's the main supplier for diamonds in the country and although he'll say he doesn't deal much with coloured stones... he does. At least significantly more than any other I've come across. Only buys stones from trusted sources. So there's a hefty level of trust there. He always discloses if a stone is lab-created or treated and in what way it was treated. Including for this one, when I asked, he immediately said that it was heat treated, explained why this treatment was used, assured me the stone wouldn't change appearance in time, that the change is stable, and added that an untreated stone would cost much more. Is the widespread opinion that this alone shouldn't be trusted? I'm not really familiar with other sapphire treatments, but I'll look into them.

Thing is, I've discussed gem certification with him and I know why most of the stones (not all, just most) aren't officially certified. It's as simple as cost effectiveness. Expensive diamonds get sent to the GIA, but the shipping costs, insurance and the GIA fee for a cheaper stone would raise its price above what the market can handle. It's honestly the reason why it wouldn't be feasible for me, as well, to send it for certification. Best I could do is look for a gemologist on a local level.

 

[T L]

I personally think it’s one of those stones that would really benefit from a more blingy setting.

 

[pokerface]

A trusted source can be deceived, and a trusted jeweler can make an error. There are only a select few gem labs that can determine type and level of treatment with certainty. FYI lab stones can be heated/treated. Like I said above, heat treated can mean more than one thing, and some dishonest or unknowing sellers advertise stones as heat treated when the stones are actually diffused (which involves heating) or something else. Unless he can describe in detail what makes him think the stone is HEAT ONLY and not diffused or filled with lead glass or synthetic, I would walk away. At best, you have a heat-treated dark sapphire. At worst, a treated synthetic. The price difference between these two is astronomical, and right now, you really don't know.

 

[Avondale]

I personally think it’s one of those stones that would really benefit from a more blingy setting.

It was considered. Believe me, it was. But then it would've been yet another ring I keep in a box and only wear on occasions because it's too fabulous for my everyday style.

Unless he can describe in detail what makes him think the stone is HEAT ONLY

Basically boils down to the credibility of the suppliers he buys from. I won't argue, there isn't 100% certainty. Although I am fairly sure the stone is natural because that he knows how to recognise and even showed me. In the meantime, I did some snooping around and it was easier than I imagined - the national mineralogical museum in town has a lab that does gem diagnostics and certifications. I'll probably contact them soon to see what they can do for me.

 

[pokerface]

Synthetic stones can now have natural looking inclusions. Your local mineralogical museum is not really going to be of assistance here, I'm afraid, because you need specialized and up-to-date lab equipment to detect diffusion and other treatments, and it's the type of thing that is only available at a handful of gem labs (AGL, GIA, etc). That's why we always talk about CREDIBLE lab reports at PS as a non-credible report doesn't move the needle for an experienced consumer.

 

[Avondale]

Well in that case I guess I'm f-ed. xD

 

[pokerface]

I don't mean to be a total downer, because it's entirely possible that a lab report isn't worth it for this stone. However, I would still press your jeweler on the questions of natural and heat-only, just for peace of mind. If you google "diffused blue sapphire" and "synthetic blue sapphire" I think you will see why I have my suspicions.

 

[Bron357]

My 5 cents.
The jeweller is unlikely to have sold you a synthetic. Depending where you live / bought it from there are laws to protect consumers (and some countries have very hefty penalties) and no doubt your jeweller is a member of appropriate associations and selling so fake gems as natural is a serious matter.
Level of treatment is another issue.
He has disclosed its heated however along with Heat there COULD be more invasive treatments ie Beryllium diffusion (that’s high heat with additives to improve colour) and/or Flux filling (that’s a treatment to “repair and improve” gems with too many fissures aka cracks).
So yes, a lab certificate would tell you if anything other than heat was used on the sapphire.
Does it matter?
Beryllium diffusion treatment is permanent and the main effect is the fact that a sapphire treated so should be cheap. So if your sapphire is BE treated you paid too much.
Flux filling is more problematic. A flawed yet flux filled gemstone is not as structurally stable as untreated. such gemstones require special handling as they don’t respond well to heat or pickling (that’s the acid bath after work on a setting to remove heat marks).
Of more “concern” to me is what happened to the sapphire during setting.
Your setting is a straightforward 6 claw setting. How or why a competent bench would take 3 or 4 attempts AND damage the sapphire in the process beggars belief.
Did they repeatedly work on the same setting? If yes be aware that when it comes to working and reworking metal prongs, metal fatigue can occur. That’s when the metal decides ”enough bending and rebending” and shears.
I have purchased ring mounts and set my own gems with the appropriate tools and as a complete and utter novice I was able to set the 6 gems into their mounts without damaging a single gem.
My advice is that if you are seriously troubled by wondering if your sapphire has been overly treated, send it to a lab. If not just enjoy your beautiful ring.
in any regard, don’t go back to that jeweller, he or his bench is incompetent in my opinion.

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

I dont know a fraction of what everyone else knows but i know what its like to be disappointed by a too dark saphire
i actually love the setting
And in some markets as has been said dark saphires are lovelly in a lot of people's eyes

I hope reading your posts, if you have no desire to return the saphire/ ring that you are able to make piece with it and love it any way
There is still great beauty in imperfection

i have overpaid for way too much jewlery, its a learning curve for a lot of people
Value also depends where you live in the world and it can be depressing compairing values of what's available between certainly countries as a bricks and mortar consumer

It is concerning the jewler had numerous attempts to set the stone resulting in damage but it does still look great on your finger

 

[peacechick]

Nuuuu I'm not returning it. I waited four months for it and if anyone wants to have it they'll have to pry it out of my cold dead fingers.
The reason a recut was necessary was because there were... issues... setting it, it had to be taken out of the setting and set again 3 or 4 times I think. My husband is the only one who saw the stone in its poor condition but the way he described it is "as if it was in a blender". I'm just happy I wasn't there at the time. Everything was fixed at no additional cost, aside from the minor loss in weight.

Not only should you never be expected to bear any additional costs for the bench’s mistake, they honestly should have given you a significant discount as apology for mangling your poor stone and taking 4 months to get the ring properly fixed. Especially if the recut resulted in a smaller stone or created flaws that was not there before e.g. the creation of a window because the stone became more shallow. If you saw the other thread where the poster caught the bench jeweller lying about her stone which had been damaged and recut (possibly swapped for a different stone) without her knowledge, they compensated her in full.

Of course, that was a drastic case and fortunately it seems like your sapphire still looks largely the same, so it ended well but it doesn’t speak well of the jeweller’s service standards. As Bron said, just don’t go there again now that you know.

About insisting on lab testing, I think that is certainly a good PS practice you can learn from here. At which price point you would expect this, I think it varies for everyone. So I typically buy smaller stones well under 1k in value so I don’t generally get my gemstones tested as it raises the cost beyond what I want to pay. However, I do send my jade bangles over 1k in value for lab testing because fakes are everywhere. So you could choose to do it or not… It is a hassle but you could also consider it a part of your gemstone education.

 

[lilmosun]

You love the stone and you paid what it was worth to you. Don't second guess but enjoy your lovely ring.

You would not be the first person, myself included, who upon joining PS started questioning past purchases. But I have learned to go back and appreciate them for what they are - pieces that I loved and are still as pretty to wear as they once were. The things pointed out here are things the general public won't notice so continue to wear with pride...and you can use your knowledge for future purchases.

As treatments become more common, buying does begin to feel more like a landmine. If I spend more than $1000 USD on a stone (which is rare), I will often have it verified by a lab (Here in the US, an AGL Gem Brief is only $75-$85). Other than that, I try to buy from trusted vendors or just because I love the piece for what it is a pretty piece of jewelry.

As others mentioned, what is more questionable than the sapphire is how the jeweler did the type of damage reported with such a basic setting. Does the jeweler send the work out to be done? Was it his regular bench? Finding a local jeweler who has a good dedicated bench is priceless imo.

 

[LilAlex]

Agree on the need for a reliable report to be sure -- and if that is important for your peace of mind.

I think it is a lovely hue and tone and I am picky about sapphires. It's a little on the dark side but very vivid/saturated. If these are phone photos, it is guaranteed to be less blue IRL -- even if you took the photos.

Cut-wise, looks like a small window in the center as others have pointed out -- no real worries there.

I find it hard to believe that any stone that looked like it had been through a blender (as you say) could be "fixed" with a polish that only shaved off a few hundredths of a carat (?!) Are you confident that this is even the same stone? No matter if it isn't but that would be a non-standard practice.

 

[shelovesinclusions]

I have purchased ring mounts and set my own gems with the appropriate tools and as a complete and utter novice I was able to set the 6 gems into their mounts without damaging a single gem.

Me too! I've set sphalerite to sapphires as a total novice, with YouTube videos as my only guide- sometimes into non-ideal seats of vintage diamond settings. The worst I've damaged on a gem was chipping less than .3mm off of the tip of a thin girdled pear, and it was like the 3rd stone I ever set.

I don't understand how there have been two stories on PS this week in which "jewelers" have damaged people's stones so badly it's facilitated outreach to a lapidary for a recut. It just seems a little unbelievable that the damage/recut customers are being told is actually what's happening. Am I crazy, this not a common practice, right?

 

[sydneyatl]

I don't understand how there have been two stories on PS this week in which "jewelers" have damaged people's stones so badly it's facilitated outreach to a lapidary for a recut. It just seems a little unbelievable that the damage/recut customers are being told is actually what's happening. Am I crazy, this not a common practice, right?

Seriously… we just moved several hours away and I’m starting to feel like the thing I regret leaving behind the most was my reliable jeweler.

 

[Avondale]

The jeweller is unlikely to have sold you a synthetic. Depending where you live / bought it from there are laws to protect consumers (and some countries have very hefty penalties) and no doubt your jeweller is a member of appropriate associations and selling so fake gems as natural is a serious matter.

You are entirely correct. I'm in Europe. The dodgy end, but still, EU consumer protection laws apply. The only way something is wrong with the stone is if the jeweler has been lied to or mislead.

Now, on the subject of treatments and certifications, I did some more snooping around and the reality remains the same - getting a certificate from the best known US and European labs would be an easy 30% of the price of the stone, all expenses considered. Getting it certified in Switzerland (which is at least somewhat close geographically) would be above 50%. Now then I would most definitely go into overpaying territory.

So I'm stuck with the local labs, whether I like it or not. So far I've discovered two, one in the museum and one that's operating privately and claims to adhere to GIA standards. I could ask what they can do and what they can certify with the equipment available to them. I am open to advice regarding specific questions I should pay more attention to.

How or why a competent bench would take 3 or 4 attempts AND damage the sapphire in the process beggars belief.

This is what drew everyone's attention, but it's a long story, so I'm gonna hide it behind a spoiler tag to avoid the wall of text.

Spoiler

No idea. Never happened before. And we've ordered multiple times from him, custom jewellery for me and for other people as gifts, some definitely more complex in terms of craftsmanship, delicate paves and whatnot. Literally been years without a single issue. The trust was rock-solid before the fiasco with this ring.

It's a long story and I don't want to bore people with it, so here are some key points:
- the setting itself was redone twice. Once because it got broken and once more because the... idk what it's called, the round.. bed? the stone lies in needed to be corrected because with the way it was initially made, a peculiarity of the stone's cut would cause it to not sit properly and instead rotate diagonally (which was the initial reason for me to return it... I literally had a crooked ring.) At least that's what I was told. In short, the jeweler, in his frustration during the second attempt to set it, broke the ring again. He admitted that to us.
- I don't really trust all that I was told completely and I also don't assume everything was a lie. Thing is, a mistake I can forgive - they happen. Maybe someone in training worked on the ring - as all of you pointed out, it's simple, probably perfect for a newbie. Such things happen. I don't care. But own up to it, don't just try to BS me.
- In the end, it was the overall manner of communication and handling of the issue that I found to be unsuitable (again, without going into unnecessary and gossipy details), especially for a long established business relationship. It was entirely unexpected. What's more, we had a parallel order in addition to that ring - a pendant for my mother-in-law. Flawless. Absolutely zero issues.

I should probably point out I was offered a refund on several occasions. It was my decision to insist on getting the ring instead of my money back.

Re: if it's the same stone. I'm pretty sure it is. I have multiple "before" pictures and a video taken of the loose stone in my hand (if anyone wants to see, I'll be happy to upload, just don't want to overdo it right now). I can't really judge by them whether the window was present before - I think it was, but I don't have a trained eye. Don't forget, I didn't see the stone with my own eyes in its poor condition, only my husband did. Even then he was assured that with a recut and a polish it would be back in good condition, so maybe the damages weren't so grave to begin with.

Here's a quick comparison image:

- On the left is the ring the first time I got it (fingerprint and all). The photo was taken with the face of the stone reflecting light so that it was visible how the sapphire was sitting slightly diagonally. This is pre-recut.
- On the right is... well, the picture I've already posted above. Btw, here it's also very clearly visible that the setting itself is different, so they did redo it, they didn't work on the same one all the time.
Both photos are taken under identical conditions - in the evening, in the same room, under the same lighting.

If you saw the other thread where the poster caught the bench jeweller lying about her stone which had been damaged and recut (possibly swapped for a different stone) without her knowledge

I did read that. Positively insane.

 

[Bron357]

I guarantee it’s the “same” ring albeit one that has been through the wringer.
For a brand new ring, all surfaces of the metal of the ring should be totally smooth and without marks.
I think they have tried to recentre the sapphire, while it’s set, using clamps and pliers. I’d guess that while attempting this their pliers have “lost grip” and accidentally “whacked” into the sapphire, probably more than once.
Sapphires are hard but impact will chip any gem.
And yet looking at the two photos side by side, it appears, to my eye anyway, that the only changes are the marks to the ring shank, a slight “moving out“ of the shank shoulders as the sapphire is still not straight in the setting. The top prong down to bottom prong isn’t a straight line.
red markup is the “mangle” marks to the shank.
green line to show how sapphire is still out of alignment
black mark showing how the shank has been slightly pulled out.

 

[Avondale]

Oh yes, it's currently not perfectly straight and that's due to the prongs. A minor thing I preferred to overlook rather than go through the whole process again, especially since it's barely noticeable right now. It would've required a new ring, taking the stone out of the current one, setting it in the new one again... and at this point I was just done redoing it over and over again.

Maybe it could be the same ring, but I examined it and tried to find the marks you pointed to, and I just don't see them. Might be a reflection or an artifact from the digital zoom. The shoulders aren't squashed "in", exactly, but actually out (which is basically closer to the original design drawing). I'm also pretty sure the gold marking on the inside is different and more clear, but I could also be imagining things.

 

[Bron357]

Sorry I forgot to add.
A gem lab or competent gemologist can tell you if any more “intensive” treatments have occurred.
What is required is higher magnification via a gem microscope and a knowledge of what to look for.
Heat treatment is a common treatment for corundum (sapphires and rubies) and it’s purpose is to reduce the rutile inclusions (called silk) to improve clarity ie make the gem “clearer / less cloudy”. This treatment can be readily detected by magnified examination.
Beryillum diffusion however requires very high heat to infuse the colour into the sapphire. This very high heat leaves behind tell tale effects on the sapphires natural inclusions.
Likewise glass filling requires fissures on the sapphire for the flux to enter. Often the flux material is a slightly different colour, will have minute air bubbles and the entry points, the fissures, will be visible on the facets.
Here are some example photos of BE treatment and glass / flux filling.