Newbie question about Rubellite color

[colorluvr]

I''m a new poster on PS, but have been lurking on the Colored Stones forum for quite a while and have been purchasing loose gemstones for a couple of years. I recently bought this 3.90ct tourmaline on ebay because I really liked the color and I have had pretty good luck with this vendor. It was advertised as being a Rubellite.

I just recently received the stone and it''s pretty close to the color in the picture. My question is this... After looking at a couple of the gorgeous "really red" Rubellites on this forum, I was wondering if a tourmaline this color can still be considered a Rubellite? The seller called the color "cherry purple red".

Thanks in advance.

 

[T L]

Rubellite is a marketing name with an ambiguous definition. It's supposed to mean "ruby like" but what is ruby like is often in question. To me your tourmaline might be considered rubellite by some in the trade, and not by others. It depends on who is selling the stone and if they want to make the name sound prettier/more desirable in order to sell it. If it isn't a true rubellite, I wouldn't sweat it. To me, I would call that purple tourmaline, and I don't think many honest sellers would consider that a rubellite.

 

[colorluvr]

Thanks for the response tourmaline_lover. I bought it for the color and not the name, but I am trying to educate myself and didn't want to call it something that it wasn't.

 

[CharmyPoo]

I think I know who the seller is - I bought a bunch of cushion "rubelite pairs" from him. They were nice and look like the color posted. Got them really cheap so I didn't really care that they were not really rubelite.

 

[colorluvr]

I got the stone from gem_cove.

 

[cellentani]

colorluvr, I'd be very interested in seeing more photos of that stone - would you be able to snap a few and post them?

ETA: BTW, I saw your gorgeous sapphire rings over in SMTR - I think you should post them over here too! They're lovely!

 

[colorluvr]

cellentani - I''ll try and get some decent pictures later when the sun is a little higher in the sky. All of the pictures I take in my house seem to turn out kind of yellow.

Thanks for the compliment about my sapphires. I did post one of them on the Vendor Pictures thread, but I didn''t know if I should post them in more than one place.

 

[ma re]

Date: 4/25/2010 11:05:43 AM
Author: tourmaline_lover

To me, I would call that purple tourmaline

Ditto. But eventhough it''s not a rubelite (IMO), it doesen''t mean it''s worthless by any means, cause as far as I know purple tourmalines of a nice shade of color are not that easy to come by, if untreated. Rubelites should be as red and as vibrant as possible (but they''re never really a pure red).

 

[Barrett]

give me a purple any day of the week

 

[LD]

TL really summed it up. What person A calls a Rubellite, person B won''t! For me, personally, a Rubellite should be "ruby like". So, your stone is just a bit too purple for me to call it a Rubellite. HOWEVER, I think it''s an outstanding purple Tourmaline and I''d buy that any day of the week!

 

[marcy]

Whether it is rubellite or not I sure like the color. It''s pretty.

 

[Richard M.]

Date: 4/25/2010 11:05:43 AM
Author: tourmaline_lover
Rubellite is a marketing name with an ambiguous definition. It''s supposed to mean ''ruby like'' but what is ruby like is often in question. To me your tourmaline might be considered rubellite by some in the trade, and not by others. It depends on who is selling the stone and if they want to make the name sound prettier/more desirable in order to sell it. If it isn''t a true rubellite, I wouldn''t sweat it. To me, I would call that purple tourmaline, and I don''t think many honest sellers would consider that a rubellite.

I generally agree except that based on the image I''d call the hue R2P/moderate reddish Purple (90-100 saturation) using the GemDialogue color system.

Maybe no one cares what GIA says these days - anarchy seems to be the rule on gem terminology, with everyone creating their own personal "rules" that no one else understands. But GIA abandoned the old-fashioned term "rubellite" many years ago, urging that tourmaline be described by hue only.

Richard M. (Rick Martin)

 

[Pandora II]

Date: 4/25/2010 2:44:38 PM
Author: Richard M.

Date: 4/25/2010 11:05:43 AM
Author: tourmaline_lover
Rubellite is a marketing name with an ambiguous definition. It''s supposed to mean ''ruby like'' but what is ruby like is often in question. To me your tourmaline might be considered rubellite by some in the trade, and not by others. It depends on who is selling the stone and if they want to make the name sound prettier/more desirable in order to sell it. If it isn''t a true rubellite, I wouldn''t sweat it. To me, I would call that purple tourmaline, and I don''t think many honest sellers would consider that a rubellite.

I generally agree except that based on the image I''d call the hue R2P/moderate reddish Purple (90-100 saturation) using the GemDialogue color system.

Maybe no one cares what GIA says these days - anarchy seems to be the rule on gem terminology, with everyone creating their own personal ''rules'' that no one else understands. But GIA abandoned the old-fashioned term ''rubellite'' many years ago, urging that tourmaline be described by hue only.

Richard M. (Rick Martin)

Is this the same for garnets as well Rick?

 

[T L]

Date: 4/25/2010 2:44:38 PM
Author: Richard M.
based on the image I'd call the hue R2P/moderate reddish Purple (90-100 saturation) using the GemDialogue color system.

Yes, it's a reddish purple. I said purple for sake of simplicity.

 

[VapidLapid]

i like it

 

[Richard M.]

Hi Pandora,

Long time, no chat. Hope you''re doing well.

Are you asking about describing garnets by color only? If so their recommendations are a bit jumbled in my estimation. But that''s somewhat understandable because garnets are very difficult to describe an any but a mineralogical way.

Despite its many colors and variations, tourmaline falls into a single range of refractive index, for instance, so various types can usually be distinguished by hue. Conversely, the various garnet species are all over the map in terms of RI, and colors are not unique to each species.

There are orange grossulars, spessartines and intermediate mixtures like pyrope-spessartines (malaia) and almandine-spessartines. Green is found in uvarovites, grossulars (tsavorites) and andradites (demantoids). Pink, yellow and some other hues aren''t unique to one species. But even though the hues may be somewhat similar among species, properties like RI, dispersion, etc. are very different.

For those reasons alone color isn''t a reliable way to distinguish between garnets. But of course sellers invent names like "grape," "mandarin," etc. based on color to simplify communication and for marketing appeal.

Richard M. (Rick Martin)

 

[Richard M.]

Date: 4/25/2010 7:46:15 PM
Author: tourmaline_lover


Yes, it''s a reddish purple. I said purple for sake of simplicity.

Understood.

But a more precise color description was central to the point I was making.

 

[colorluvr]

Of course, when I want to take pictures out in the sun, the sun refuses to come out, so I attempted to take a few in my poorly lit office. None of them are the exact color, but a couple come close. Pardon the lousy pictures... part lousy lighting and part camera operator error.
This photo makes is look a bit more purple than it is IRL.

 

[colorluvr]

And this one is what it looks like under a Halogen office lamp. The lamp gives it a brownish tinge, but not this much IRL.

 

[colorluvr]

This is actually closer to the real color, but I had to use the autocolor buttom to get it.

 

[packrat]

Welcome to PS colorluvr! Your stone is very pretty! I''m off to look for your sapphire rings! (and yes please do post them here too!)

 

[colorluvr]

Date: 4/25/2010 2:19:53 PM
Author: ma re

Date: 4/25/2010 11:05:43 AM
Author: tourmaline_lover

To me, I would call that purple tourmaline

Ditto. But eventhough it''s not a rubelite (IMO), it doesen''t mean it''s worthless by any means, cause as far as I know purple tourmalines of a nice shade of color are not that easy to come by, if untreated. Rubelites should be as red and as vibrant as possible (but they''re never really a pure red).

It was sold as a natural Rubellite with minimal heat, from the Oro mine in Nigeria. VVS - oval w/superb luster (vendor''s words).

 

[PumpkinPie]

regardless of the actual name, it''s a beautiful shade of purple - a lovely stone!

 

[colorluvr]

Date: 4/25/2010 10:54:25 PM
Author: Maevie
regardless of the actual name, it''s a beautiful shade of purple - a lovely stone!

thank you... I think it will need some surrounding sparkle when I finally get it set..... it can go a bit dark in the wrong lighting... maybe a LOGR halo would do the trick!

 

[chictomato]

Hi colorlurv! I thoght that this article on Rubellite/Red Tourmaline by Richard. W. Wise might be useful

 

[colorluvr]

Date: 4/25/2010 11:10:33 PM
Author: chictomato
Hi colorlurv! I thoght that this article on Rubellite/Red Tourmaline by Richard. W. Wise might be useful

Thanks, I''ll check it out.

 

[chrono]

While it looks like a very pretty purple tourmaline, it isn’t a rubellite in my book. If one ignores the rubellite name, I think it’s a lovely purple tourmaline and for the price you paid (I think it is very little), it probably doesn’t matter that it muddies indoors either.

 

[cellentani]

Date: 4/25/2010 10:58:37 PM
Author: colorluvr

I think it will need some surrounding sparkle when I finally get it set..... it can go a bit dark in the wrong lighting... maybe a LOGR halo would do the trick!

You''ve done really well with LOGR so far, so I''m excited to see what you end up with! And no arguements about a halo from me - I love them!

 

[chictomato]

Date: 4/26/2010 9:12:48 AM
Author: cellentani

Date: 4/25/2010 10:58:37 PM

Author: colorluvr


I think it will need some surrounding sparkle when I finally get it set..... it can go a bit dark in the wrong lighting... maybe a LOGR halo would do the trick!

You've done really well with LOGR so far, so I'm excited to see what you end up with! And no arguements about a halo from me - I love them!

I love HALO too! It will certainly looks good

 

[colorluvr]

Date: 4/26/2010 8:48:45 AM
Author: Chrono
While it looks like a very pretty purple tourmaline, it isn’t a rubellite in my book. If one ignores the rubellite name, I think it’s a lovely purple tourmaline and for the price you paid (I think it is very little), it probably doesn’t matter that it muddies indoors either.

I'm not sure what is and what isn't a good price for a gemstone like this. I'd like your honest opinion so I have an idea in the future.

I purchased this stone initially, to set in a heavy yellow gold setting that I already have, but it didn't look good, (not enough contrast) so I'm going to have to wait for awhile before I have this one set.

TIA