Old Mine Brilliant Versus Cushion Brilliant / GOTTA HAVE THE MALTESE CROSS!!

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Dear PSers,

First of all I'd like to thank CehraBerah, Boston_Jeff, NeatFreak, FatalFelice and Diagem (and many others) for your dedicated and informative postings on cushions especially the chunky faceted and antique ones.
Without your knowledge and the postings over the last few years I would never have been able to get to this point. I lurked here and read as much as I could over the last few weeks.

In addition I have had some preliminary searches by Mark at ERD, John at GOG and Bob at WF. With so far only one diamond that looking promising coming up but all vendors all patiently answering my questions over the last few weeks and help edecutate me on far more than the 4 Cs.

I am asking PSers to help us here so I can limit the number of questions I have to ask each of them and to get an unbiased opinion.

I live in Canada where the selection and knowledge is very limited concerning chunky faceted cushions so seeing these diamonds in real life requires considerable expense and I would like to make only one trip to the US to make a final diamond and setting selection.
1) From what I understand Old Mine Brilliants(OMB) and Cushion Brilliants(CB) are quite similar except:
a) The culet is larger in general in OMBs usually (slightly large or large) and in CB could be (medium small or none and rarely large)
b) Both have 58 facets, 8 mains however CBs has 8 evenly sized pavillions and in OMBs the mains can be 2 sets of 4 or (a set of 6 evenly sized and 2 larger sized ones in the middle equator of the diamond).
c) OMBs tend to have greater depth%, greater crown depth %, andlarger crown angle than CBs.
d) I am not sure exactly why but the large mirros underneath the table are much more prevalent in the OMBs while CBs have smaller more pointy(but still chunky) facets underneath the table.

If I'm wrong about any of the above please correct me.
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Now some background on my preferences:

Until recently I had been looking for a modern cushion brilliant with 8 mains and chunky facets and excellent symmetry. I prefer no culet at all thus no light leakage out of the middle.

But then I was absolutely amazed by this video http://www.vimeo.com/5219738 and this diamond http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/5954/ the ASET and pictures especially. I wouldn't choose this diamond as its too large and we want a colourless diamond however the symmetry and optics are amazing. IMO This diamond IMO blows away the RB beside it at the end of the video.

I have read that it is best to compare diamonds under similar lighting conditions and the led lights Rhino(Jon at GOG) usually uses in most of his videos shot in diamonds sitting in his GIA diamond dock produce results that may not duplicate common indoor and outdoor lighting. However this video was shot outside with parts of it even in natural sunlight as the dominant source. Now I am still not sure what Rhino means by ambient light it sure looks like he has a strong camera light or some extra white light shining on the diamonds for part of the video but that incredible maltese cross in that diamond with all 4 points showing under many angles is just amazing.

My fiance and I loved this Maltese cross look and I spent a day or so looking at OMBs all over the net. I have come to some general conclusions on comparison of many pictures and diamonds please feel free to correct me as I only have trends based on diamonds that exhibit this look and I only have a basic understanding of the interplay between the angles and lengths

2) In order to get this symmetrical maltese cross (please see the attached file I have highlighted the cross I am referreg to in red)

a)You need a square L/W ratio probably between 1 - 1.1 (the one in the video is 1.03). The more square the more symmetrical the cross will be.
b) It looks like all of these signature OMBs on GOG have the following common characteristics I compared the 5 with available information I found the following ranges:

i)Crown Height 20.9 - 22.1% (OMB all should have high crown heights but probably not in this small a range)
ii)Crown Angle 40.8 - 41.2
iii) Pavillion Angle 40.5 - 40.6
iv) Table% 50.7 - 52.3% (This is particularly important as too small or too large and the cross doesn't reflect uniformly at the same angle)
v) Culet Off Centre 0.6 - 1.5%
vi) Table Off Centre 0.04mm - 0.1mm
vii) Total Depth 65.7% - 67.3%
viii) Symmetry Good - Very Good

3) I am looking for a 1.2 - 1.5Ct (6.3 X 6.3mm or up to 7.0mm X 7.0mm) G - H coloured OMB which has a well defined, symmetrical maltese cross with as small a culet as possible(slightly large is okay)

I hope that some of the posters who own these OMB diamonds or similar CBs can tell me how bright the cross is in their diamonds and if they can see the 4 points in outside lighting and at the most common face up viewing angles. There really are few no pictures that will do these diamonds justice.
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So here are the questions:

1) What do you think are the most important of the stats above and is there any way to search for other diamonds looking for superior reflective mirrors underneath the table?

2) Are there multple cutters who can produce diamonds with similar optics and do other vendors have access to them?

3) Seeing as I won't be able to see most of these diamonds prior to purchase and would have to likely drive or fly to New York or Burlington Vermont to visit an appraiser what is the best method to consider whether the light optics will be the same with other diamonds? Would comparing ASET images give me a good enough comparison of light performance to replace not having to see the diamonds side by side? (I already trust the three vendors to select for me bright quality stones but this is a really specific look I am after. A good picture can show me the cross but I can't tell if the cross will be dark or have great reflection like the GOG OMBs.

4) Any other method of comparison you would prefer or suggest?

5) Even if I asked for ASET images from other vendors would their inferior photo quality or different light conditions make it difficult for me to make a reasonable comparison with the high quality GOG images.

 

[arjunajane]

Hello,
and welcome to PS!
Firstly, may I ask, if you love the look of Jon''s signature chunky cushions so much, why not just go with one
of them? It sounds like you are holding these up as the standard already, kwim?
Plus, at the moment GOG are the only vendor with whom you can place a custom order for your own OMC to be cut, in your desired size, colour and clarity ranges. Takes alot of the leg and guess work out, yanno? (and potentially time and money in calling in diamonds that end up being unsuitable).

I will leave it to the cushion experts to answer your technical questions, but the reason that diamond
looks so great in that video is because of the angles and dimensions that Jon has specifically had them cut to.
If you look at different photos/videos (from both GOG and PS''ers who have bought these diamonds), you will find the look and the light return is consistent, including that maltese cross that you love.

Sure, I may be biased as I am soon-to-be owner of one of these. But we have consumers in other threads who own a number of lovely diamonds, both saying these new cushions put everything else to shame. I am inclined to believe them, even if you are skeptical of Jon''s videos

here are some recent threads on these OMC''s, or GOG signature cushions, which you may enjoy:


new owner

my thread - two new owners have posted pics on page 5

a recent RT discussion

another RT discussion you may find interesting

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Date: 6/22/2009 5:18:44 AM
Author: arjunajane
Hello,
and welcome to PS!
Firstly, may I ask, if you love the look of Jon''s signature chunky cushions so much, why not just go with one
of them? It sounds like you are holding these up as the standard already, kwim?
Plus, at the moment GOG are the only vendor with whom you can place a custom order for your own OMC to be cut, in your desired size, colour and clarity ranges. Takes alot of the leg and guess work out, yanno? (and potentially time and money in calling in diamonds that end up being unsuitable).

I will leave it to the cushion experts to answer your technical questions, but the reason that diamond
looks so great in that video is because of the angles and dimensions that Jon has specifically had them cut to.
If you look at different photos/videos (from both GOG and PS''ers who have bought these diamonds), you will find the look and the light return is consistent, including that maltese cross that you love.

Sure, I may be biased as I am soon-to-be owner of one of these. But we have consumers in other threads who own a number of lovely diamonds, both saying these new cushions put everything else to shame. I am inclined to believe them, even if you are skeptical of Jon''s videos

here are some recent threads on these OMC''s, or GOG signature cushions, which you may enjoy:


new owner

my thread - two new owners have posted pics on page 5

a recent RT discussion

another RT discussion you may find interesting

Thank-you for the thread references. GOG may be the only place to get the diamond and a request for my specs will likely be made but before I tell all other vendors to end their searches I want to make sure GOG is the only place that offers this look or if other older stones also have the same optics. I would think that it is pretty rare in diamonds to only have one source for a cut unless it was patented (like a Birk''s Amorique or a Tiffany Legacy).

I am also quite interested in seeing good visual images of the Modern Chunky Cushions(small or no culet) called Cushion Brilliants with 8 mains with well defined diamonds or arrows under the table.
Most of the pictures I have seen of these did not show the symmetry in the middle I would love to see. I can see the 8 mains in some pictures but the light reflection under the table is not as symmetrical as in the OMBs in the pictures I have seen.

In addition my fiance is hopeful of a near future proposal so she would prefer sooner rather than later and cutting a diamond will take some time.

 

[arjunajane]

You likely already know this, but before Jon started cutting these, Mark @ ERD (engagement rings direct), was pretty much the only "go to place" for chunky cushions.

So I would suggest giving GOG and ERD your desired specs and budget, and see how they can help.
I also recommend contacting JBEG (Jewels by Erica Grace), who specialize in sourcing anique stones and have had some gorgeous cushions come through.
It's not so much a question of patents, but simply that (as far as I know), Jon has been the only one to go out on that limb and endeavour to have these specially cut..(so far)..

Older stones are going to have the same general appearance, but *not* the same optics as the GOG OMC's - simply because they have been optimized and cut specifically for light performance (in today's conditions).
Many of the antique cushions are beautiful, but they were often cut to be admired in candle light, and of course the "tightness" etc of the angles simply wasn't possible as it is now.

I happen to know Jon is currently having another round of OMC's cut as we speak, so it may not take as long as you think. You should check with him to see what's going to be in the range..
Infact, there have been members on this board (do a search for "Charmypoo"), who have been looking for that specific style of cushion for many months - they are often a needle in a haystack, so I would say ordering would be *usually* quicker than searching at this time..
I'm going to be honest with you though, if you want that specific appearance of cushion, and aren't willing to be flexible on colour and clarity ** - I wouldn't put a really immediate deadline on the engagement. It will likely take you at least a couple of weeks I should think..

I can't really help you with your other Q's as I don't know anything about modern cushions, sorry.
But good luck!

**sorry, edit corrected.

 

[jet2ks]

I''m with AJ on going to GOG. As far as I know, Jon is the only vendor currently sourcing this style of cushion. The reason there is only one source is that he is the only vendor requesting them and he has found a cutter to work with that will cut the stones the way he wants them. If the popularity were to drastically increase, I''m sure more vendors and cutters would follow the trend, but right now there is limited interest from consumers (PS nonwithstanding, the vast majority of diamond purchasers are going to buy a round or princess. The old-style cuts are a niche business)

You may be able to go through someone who can find an antique OMC with good optical performance, but they are going to have to search through a multitude of stones. Your odds of getting the size and specs you want are pretty slim. I think you would actually get something faster going through Jon.

Best of luck with your search.

 

[chrono]

AJ has given excellent advice. If you want something fairly quickly for certain specifications (colour and clarity together with cut), GOG would probably be the quickest. Others like ERD and JBEGmight be able to help you find it too but either they don’t do the light testing like GOG or it’ll take them longer because they are looking for real antique stones compared to GOG who sends the order to the factory to cut one to specification.

Not to mention the lifetime upgrade feature.

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Date: 6/22/2009 10:50:50 AM
Author: arjunajane
You likely already know this, but before Jon started cutting these, Mark @ ERD (engagement rings direct), was pretty much the only ''go to place'' for chunky cushions.

So I would suggest giving GOG and ERD your desired specs and budget, and see how they can help.
I also recommend contacting JBEG (Jewels by Erica Grace), who specialize in sourcing anique stones and have had some gorgeous cushions come through.
It''s not so much a question of patents, but simply that (as far as I know), Jon has been the only one to go out on that limb and endeavour to have these specially cut..(so far)..

Older stones are going to have the same general appearance, but *not* the same optics as the GOG OMC''s - simply because they have been optimized and cut specifically for light performance (in today''s conditions).
Many of the antique cushions are beautiful, but they were often cut to be admired in candle light, and of course the ''tightness'' etc of the angles simply wasn''t possible as it is now.

I happen to know Jon is currently having another round of OMC''s cut as we speak, so it may not take as long as you think. You should check with him to see what''s going to be in the range..
Infact, there have been members on this board (do a search for ''Charmypoo''), who have been looking for that specific style of cushion for many months - they are often a needle in a haystack, so I would say ordering would be *usually* quicker than searching at this time..
I''m going to be honest with you though, if you want that specific appearance of cushion, and aren''t willing to be flexible on colour and clarity ** - I wouldn''t put a really immediate deadline on the engagement. It will likely take you at least a couple of weeks I should think..

I can''t really help you with your other Q''s as I don''t know anything about modern cushions, sorry.
But good luck!

**sorry, edit corrected.

Well you are proving to be correct the best speciman I was able to find is shown. The images below are ASET images of a GOG signature OMB on the left and a carefully selected bright CB on the right. Many CBs and OMBs especially the older ones have one or two points in the cross of the large size pavillion facets that are not reflecting light as strong as I would like and are faded on faceup appearance. The CB on the right is probably better than 99% of cushions out there but still not good enough.

I may have to wait a month or more for GOG to find and cut a diamond for me which falls even close to my specs, hopefully the new batch will have some higher coloured square stones in them.

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Had to rename the picture so it is posted here. Anyone familiar with ASET images here? Do different scopes or lighting conditions make a big difference when comparing two ASET images?

 

[arjunajane]

Date: 6/23/2009 12:47:58 AM
Author: ChunkyCushionLover

Date: 6/22/2009 10:50:50 AM
.

Well you are proving to be correct the best speciman I was able to find is shown. The images below are ASET images of a GOG signature OMB on the left and a carefully selected bright CB on the right. Many CBs and OMBs especially the older ones have one or two points in the cross of the large size pavillion facets that are not reflecting light as strong as I would like and are faded on faceup appearance. The CB on the right is probably better than 99% of cushions out there but still not good enough.


I may have to wait a month or more for GOG to find and cut a diamond for me which falls even close to my specs, hopefully the new batch will have some higher coloured square stones in them.

Yup, you'll find that!

To answer your question on the aset, it is necessary to have it properly set up and
all to get an accurate representation/image. But I'm not one that's big into reading these,
accept to say you can easily tell the GOG one is alot better (at least in this example), seeing as
the one on the right has plenty more white spots, and the intensity of the red is stronger in the left one.

Whether the set-ups were exactly the same, you may have to ask the vendors - or perhaps someone here will
be able to "read" it better for you.

I'm glad you are looking more at the GOG ones, I don't think you will be disappointed!

 

[chrono]

To be fair, the ASET on the right looks to be poorly taken.

 

[Lorelei]

The ASET on the left is excellent, the one on the right some leakage can be clearly seen. This page is very useful for learning how to interpret ASET images.

http://www.highperformancediamonds.com/index.php?page=education-performance

Great posts Bruddah!!!

 

[arjunajane]

ha ha, thanks lozza!


Chrono, yes I wondered about that too. Perhaps OP can ask that vendor to tweak their setup and re-take it...


..but I think we know what the results will be..

 

[chrono]

Yes, I still think the left is the clear winner based on the lesser white areas in the ASET.

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Date: 6/23/2009 8:50:15 AM
Author: arjunajane
ha ha, thanks lozza!


Chrono, yes I wondered about that too. Perhaps OP can ask that vendor to tweak their setup and re-take it...


..but I think we know what the results will be..

I did ask them to tweak the light source and they told me the red does get darker but it doesn't change the white areas. I also suspect that the direct light is obscuring in one of the larger mains in the East West direction so it appears blueish instead of red and that is just an artifact from bad lighting conditions. Still even with tweaking there is still no comparison in light performance between these ASET images. It seems like ASET (good ones) would be my only real basis for comparison and since most vendors don't use these images it is going to be near impossible to screen for how strong the larger pavillion mains will reflect under the table.

I would be really cool if Rhino would optimize the Modern Cushion Brilliant. I think that should look like an X through the table if 4 of those mains were all strongly reflecting light. The main visual difference between OMB and CB under the table would be the thickness of the mains(ignoring the culet). It might even be possible to see 8 evenly spaced and sized mains like in a round brilliant. I wonder if the average pavillion angle was set at 40.5 and with a high crown if you would see the X or 8 pointed star under the table.

 

[Rhino]

Date: 6/23/2009 11:23:54 PM
Author: ChunkyCushionLover

Date: 6/23/2009 8:50:15 AM

Author: arjunajane

ha ha, thanks lozza!



Chrono, yes I wondered about that too. Perhaps OP can ask that vendor to tweak their setup and re-take it...



..but I think we know what the results will be..

I did ask them to tweak the light source and they told me the red does get darker but it doesn''t change the white areas. I also suspect that the direct light is obscuring in one of the larger mains in the East West direction so it appears blueish instead of red and that is just an artifact from bad lighting conditions. Still even with tweaking there is still no comparison in light performance between these ASET images. It seems like ASET (good ones) would be my only real basis for comparison and since most vendors don''t use these images it is going to be near impossible to screen for how strong the larger pavillion mains will reflect under the table.


I would be really cool if Rhino would optimize the Modern Cushion Brilliant. I think that should look like an X through the table if 4 of those mains were all strongly reflecting light. The main visual difference between OMB and CB under the table would be the thickness of the mains(ignoring the culet). It might even be possible to see 8 evenly spaced and sized mains like in a round brilliant. I wonder if the average pavillion angle was set at 40.5 and with a high crown if you would see the X or 8 pointed star under the table.

Greetings CCL.

Just in answer to some of your questions.

1. No extra lighting was used in the clip taken in natural lighting.

2. For clarification, what I mean by ambient light is that while I was outside on a sunny day, no direct light from the sun was falling into the diamond. Direct sunlight is blocked. The reflections you see emanating out of the diamond is merely from non direct, ambient light in the atmosphere around me (shady tree, leaves above, light coming from around me, etc.). When you see strong fire in certain parts of the clip that is not ambient light (stray light) but the direct light from the sun.
3. While there are chunky faceted cushions on the market, none are cut precisely like our formula which is in the process of being patented.
4. The 2nd batch of 10-15 is currently being cut and there may indeed be something there for you. I will be getting a list this week with an estimate of what I can expect to arrive. My rough buyer is already planning on the 3rd batch too which should follow in the not too distant future afterwards.
5. 8 mained cushions have been mastered mimicking the appearance of the finest rounds. Those would be Square Cushion H&A''s which we also feature.
6. Cushion Brilliants (not OMC''s) with 4 mains, we have located a great facility for these but the nature of their reflections is 180 degrees different from what I am having cut. If you want modern cushion as opposed to OMC cushion with excellent optics I can find that for you.
7. It''s funny you mention "maltese cross" because an observer in our store said the same thing when we showed them today.
8. In your first post you mention that OMC''s tend to be cut deeper, have larger mirrors under the table etc. than CB''s. This is not always the case in most circumstances but I realize you''re talking about ours which do. Also ... 65-67 depth in a cushion is not deep whatsoever. If you were to take hte length of the corner to corner measurements into account the depth would fall closer to 61%. There are OMC''s cut deeper or with very shallow depths and while all chunky faceted cushions share a common facet structure (larger facets) the way in which OMC''s reflect light back to the observer varies from OMC to OMC which is based on each diamonds optical symmetry and proportions. I shot a clip recently demonstrating varying appearances you can find within chunky faceted cushions. Finding 2 the same is like finding a needle in a haystack and is why I created this brand. I wanted a certain look and I wanted it reliably and consistently from diamond to diamond. I am personally extremely pleased with the outcome and those who have seen them thus far who love vintage cushions share my enthusiasm although chunky cushions are not for everyone.

All the best,

 

[arjunajane]

great info, thanks for popping into this thread jon!

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Hi Jon,



Thank-you for replying in my thread I think it is admirable that you have time and really take a personal interest in discussing this here.
I hope you remember I spoke to you and gave my specs to Sarah two weeks ago.


I also really appreciated the second video in natural light http://www.vimeo.com/5310842 you did with some views by the window this really reinforces your point about not using any extra lighting in your videos and letting the diamonds optics unaltered shine through. Also I noticed another great video you posted recently from your OMB signature cut series . My future fiance commented that she didn't see any yellow tint from that N coloured stone. http://www.vimeo.com/5342321



I am still anxiously waiting for my diamond to be cut in your signature series holding my breath and I am beginning to look like this

.

Couple of questions:


1) Consiering the many discussions on here about on Excellent Cut versus Very Good(and a little more shallow and spreadier) GIA cut grades when discussing Round Brilliants have you ever explored how shallow you could go on these diamonds without losing the optics that you want to consistently achieve? Does this present too many contraints to the cutter? I would love a spreadier stone for the same carat weight with equal optics if that was possible. Just something you might want to consider in optmizing your patented cut.

Of the Cushion Modified Brilliants I have seen some of the best ones were in 60 - 64% range in depth but they also had bigger tables (60 - 62%) and looked 0.2 carats bigger(in a 1.2 Ct Stone) and as bright as the deeper ones. I am talking about near square L/W ratios 1-1.08 so the depth using either length or width should be close to the same.

2) If your signatures OMBs were to have a smaller culet lets says none or medium what would happen to reflections under the table from the 8 mains? I still don't understand why in modern CBs with 4 mains or 8 mains the light doesn't reflect directly back like seen clearly in your signature cushions especially in the 4 larger mains. I wonder if the light coming in directly down at the culet or slightly off centre hits the pavillion facets and can reflect at different angles changing the reflects of the 8 mains under the table. Any Thoughts?

3) I found one great example (I call it the Trivial Pursuit OMC) of what I was asking about before see the OMC below. Unfortunately the centre of this stone is dark but I just wonder if that stone was possible with a brighter centre. I am sure this is quite different from the Modern 8 main Cushion Brilliant you would show me or a Cushion H&A. I am not sure if theoretically this look could be achieved with a bright centre but I can dream

. In any case it certainly is an interesting looking stone IMHO.

P.S. I look forward to getting that email on your new list of of OMB signature cushions and any that I can grab right away!


Regards,

CCL

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Well close enough to a trivial pursuit player piece!

 

[arjunajane]

Date: 6/28/2009 1:14:11 AM
Author: ChunkyCushionLover


Hi Jon,

I also really appreciated the second video in natural light http://www.vimeo.com/5310842 you did with some views by the window this really reinforces your point about not using any extra lighting in your videos and letting the diamonds optics unaltered shine through. Also I noticed another great video you posted recently from your OMB signature cut series . My future fiance commented that she didn''t see any yellow tint from that N coloured stone. http://www.vimeo.com/5342321

,

CCL

Hello again!
That is my new diamond you linked in the video with the natural lighting shots.
I certainly can''t see any tint in the M colour in the video, and once I receive it in a couple days I will
let folks know what its like IRL.

I did want to tell you that Jon never enhances his videos (or photos), but wasn''t sure if you''d trust me.
I''m glad you heard it from the man himself.

Good luck in your purchase, I think you''re heading in the right direction.

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Date: 6/28/2009 1:29:33 AM
Author: arjunajane

Date: 6/28/2009 1:14:11 AM
Author: ChunkyCushionLover




Hi Jon,

I also really appreciated the second video in natural light http://www.vimeo.com/5310842 you did with some views by the window this really reinforces your point about not using any extra lighting in your videos and letting the diamonds optics unaltered shine through. Also I noticed another great video you posted recently from your OMB signature cut series . My future fiance commented that she didn't see any yellow tint from that N coloured stone. http://www.vimeo.com/5342321

,

CCL

Hello again!
That is my new diamond you linked in the video with the natural lighting shots.
I certainly can't see any tint in the M colour in the video, and once I receive it in a couple days I will
let folks know what its like IRL.

I did want to tell you that Jon never enhances his videos (or photos), but wasn't sure if you'd trust me.
I'm glad you heard it from the man himself.

Good luck in your purchase, I think you're heading in the right direction.

I didn't really think he enhances his video or images but the ASET images look amazing on his signature OMBs one vendor said the red looks painted on! It more likely he just has an excellent uniform method for producing the best ASET image and a photograph of it.

I would llke to know his ASET image and photography setup as all the images of the stones on GOG are great quality ASET even in stones with poorer optics.
Please let me know about your stone as I might just make the trip to GOG and consider buying the 2.64 L if you don't notice much tint in your stone.

 

[Rhino]

Hey CCL,

My response/thoughts between yours.

Date: 6/28/2009 1:14:11 AM
Author: ChunkyCushionLover


Hi Jon,

Thank-you for replying in my thread I think it is admirable that you have time and really take a personal interest in discussing this here
I hope you remember I spoke to you and gave my specs to Sarah two weeks ago.

I also really appreciated the second video in natural light http://www.vimeo.com/5310842 you did with some views by the window this really reinforces your point about not using any extra lighting in your videos and letting the diamonds optics unaltered shine through. Also I noticed another great video you posted recently from your OMB signature cut series . My future fiance commented that she didn''t see any yellow tint from that N coloured stone. http://www.vimeo.com/5342321

In fairness a warmth can be seen but in natural ambient lighting its all but an afterthought. Ie. the first word going through my mind as I''m in that natural lighting isn''t yellow.

You do see it moreso at a tilt but even the clients who are purchasing it can''t believe it''s an N. They came to my store 2x and saw it during the evening in our store and also during the daytime.

I am still anxiously waiting for my diamond to be cut in your signature series holding my breath and I am beginning to look like this

.

LOL... I made you aware of what''s coming. You''re not in the dark. If I''m not mistaken doesn''t your first name begin with a J. and you told me to forget about it that you inherited a diamond?

Couple of questions:

1) Considering the many discussions on here about on Excellent Cut versus Very Good GIA cut grades and a spreadier stones when discussing Round Brilliants have you ever explored how shallow you could go on these diamonds without losing the optics that you want to consistently achieve? Does this present too many contraints to the cutter? I would love a spreadier stone for the same carat weight with equal optics if that was possible. Just something you might want to consider in optmizing your patented cut.

Are you prepared to pay the premium for rounds as opposed to fancies? Like the premium for a Square H&A (like Jubilee, Sq Cush H&A, Princess of Hearts)? Currently cushion''s (as well as many other fancies) are priced roughly 20% less than rounds and I am able to maintain being able to price off the fancy sheet (although at the higher end of that sheet) because I am not cutting for weight but at the same time am able to retain more of the rough in the cutting than I would if I were to shave more away. If I decrease the total depth and try to maintain the appearance I have acheived in a chunky cushion there will be more rough cut to complete the finished product which will drive up its cost. One of my goals was to be able to maintain a cost effective diamond, yet most beautiful chunky cushion one will ever see in this lifetime. After viewing hundreds of cushions I believe I have acheived that.

Perhaps if enough people were willing to pay the premium I would investigate that but currently there are some potential clients we are in contact with who fail to grasp the concept of cutting for light performance and think these cushions should be priced like the garbage currently available on the market.

If I cut more of the rough away making them more expensive I would defeat my original purpose.

Of the Cushion Modified Brilliants I have seen some of the best ones were in 60 - 64% range in depth but they also had bigger tables (60 - 62%) and looked 0.2 carats bigger(in a 1.2 Ct Stone) and as bright as the deeper ones. I am talking about near square L/W ratios 1-1.08 so the depth using either length or width should be close to the same.

The thing is depth % is quite frankly an afterthought when I am thinking optics. Depths on cushions like I am cutting in the mid 60''s are perfectly fine and face up just fine for their weight even when compared to ideal cut rounds. Eeking out another 2% less in depth isn''t going to make an earth shattering difference. It''s not like we are cutting cushions with 70+ depths. If one were to take corner to corner measurements into account the depths on the cushions we''re cutting are more like the 60-62% zone. Their spread is fine. If you look at some of the earlier clips I do compare a 1.04ct OEC with a 61-62% depth with a 1.07ct Signature OMC and their sizes are pretty comparable.

2) If your signatures OMBs

Just one correction. It''s not OMB''s. It''s OMC''s as in Old Mine Cushion''s.

were to have a smaller culet lets says none or medium what would happen to reflections under the table from the 8 mains?

I don''t think there would be much difference.

I still don''t understand why in modern CBs with 4 mains or 8 mains the light doesn''t reflect directly back like seen clearly in your signature cushions especially in the 4 larger mains.

Understanding why most modernt cushions don''t do this involves a rather in depth study of diamond optics and precisely what makes these things tick. I''ve been studying this for 9 years and am still learning but I''ve learned enough to know how to produce smashing optics.

Getting those mains to do what we have it do took a lot of time and thought to produce. There is a delicate relationship between each of the mains and the minor facets to produce the appearance. Even the first prototypes we had cut had to be sent back because they weren''t *exactly* cut to specification. It''s easy to screw up. All angles must be just so.

I wonder if the light coming in directly down at the culet or slightly off centre hits the pavillion facets and can reflect at different angles changing the reflects of the 8 mains under the table. Any Thoughts?

If I told you I''d have to kill you. LOL

3) I found one great example (I call it the Trivial Pursuit OMC) of what I was asking about before see the OMC below. Unfortunately the centre of this stone is dark but I just wonder if that stone was possible with a brighter centre. I am sure this is quite different from the Modern 8 main Cushion Brilliant you would show me or a Cushion H&A. I am not sure if theoretically this look could be achieved with a bright centre but I can dream

. In any case it certainly is an interesting looking stone IMHO.

P.S. I look forward to getting that email on your new list of of OMB signature cushions and any that I can grab right away!

Regards,

CCL

The pic you attached shows an OMC facet structure but the proportions do not look promising. General Photography for diamonds is good for one thing and one thing only. That is showing facet structure. Light performance is a whole other beast.

Now ... if I am mistaken and you are not J. ... jot me an email as I just received an estimate on the next batch of goodies.

All the best,

 

[arjunajane]

Date: 6/28/2009 1:33:45 AM
Author: ChunkyCushionLover

Date: 6/28/2009 1:29:33 AM

Author: arjunajane

Date: 6/28/2009 1:14:11 AM

Author: ChunkyCushionLover






Hi Jon,

I also really appreciated the second video in natural light http://www.vimeo.com/5310842 you did with some views by the window this really reinforces your point about not using any extra lighting in your videos and letting the diamonds optics unaltered shine through. Also I noticed another great video you posted recently from your OMB signature cut series . My future fiance commented that she didn''t see any yellow tint from that N coloured stone. http://www.vimeo.com/5342321

,

CCL

Hello again!

That is my new diamond you linked in the video with the natural lighting shots.

I certainly can''t see any tint in the M colour in the video, and once I receive it in a couple days I will

let folks know what its like IRL.


I did want to tell you that Jon never enhances his videos (or photos), but wasn''t sure if you''d trust me.

I''m glad you heard it from the man himself.

Good luck in your purchase, I think you''re heading in the right direction.

I didn''t really think he enhances his video or images but the ASET images look amazing on his signature OMBs one vendor said the red looks painted on! It more likely he just has an excellent uniform method for producing the best ASET image and a photograph of it.


I would llke to know his ASET image and photography setup as all the images of the stones on GOG are great quality ASET even in stones with poorer optics.

Please let me know about your stone as I might just make the trip to GOG and consider buying the 2.64 L if you don''t notice much tint in your stone.

Hi CCL,
there are already a couple photos of it set into my YG setting over here link

Personally, I am a lover of the lower colour grades (I am moving from a K colour RB), and especially in antique styled diamonds, it just seems "right" to me. But I will certainly try to give a critical analysis of the tint for you.

The 2.64 L would be a wonderful diamond, I would be extremely envious if you nab that one!
If you''re close enough, have you considered just taking the trip to GOG anyway for a bit of fun/education,
and asking Jon all of your questions in person, including about his ASET etc?

I''ve unfortunately never been as I live in Australia, but I''m always envious of PS''ers that get to visit GOG and meet Jon in person, as apparently he really makes an effort to show and tell you alot of things and make a true experience out of it.
If/when I do get to visit the US, a trip over to GOG is high on my list, if nothing else just to meet Jon and the lovely team that have helped me alot.

As to the ASET setup, I couldn''t comment specifically, except to say that I heard Jon mention something along the lines of that they have one of the most advanced and sophisticated diamond labs in the US - this would go a ways to explaining why they have such accurate and consistent images.
I would take such comments from competitors with a big pinch of salt

I know Jon has too much integrity to do anything like altering images.

My cushion is due here on Tuesday, I''ll let you know my thoughts after that.

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Date: 6/28/2009 2:12:52 AM
Author: arjunajane

Date: 6/28/2009 1:33:45 AM
Author: ChunkyCushionLover

Date: 6/28/2009 1:29:33 AM

Author: arjunajane

Date: 6/28/2009 1:14:11 AM

Author: ChunkyCushionLover







Hi Jon,

I also really appreciated the second video in natural light http://www.vimeo.com/5310842 you did with some views by the window this really reinforces your point about not using any extra lighting in your videos and letting the diamonds optics unaltered shine through. Also I noticed another great video you posted recently from your OMB signature cut series . My future fiance commented that she didn''t see any yellow tint from that N coloured stone. http://www.vimeo.com/5342321

,

CCL

Hello again!

That is my new diamond you linked in the video with the natural lighting shots.

I certainly can''t see any tint in the M colour in the video, and once I receive it in a couple days I will

let folks know what its like IRL.


I did want to tell you that Jon never enhances his videos (or photos), but wasn''t sure if you''d trust me.

I''m glad you heard it from the man himself.

Good luck in your purchase, I think you''re heading in the right direction.

I didn''t really think he enhances his video or images but the ASET images look amazing on his signature OMBs one vendor said the red looks painted on! It more likely he just has an excellent uniform method for producing the best ASET image and a photograph of it.


I would llke to know his ASET image and photography setup as all the images of the stones on GOG are great quality ASET even in stones with poorer optics.

Please let me know about your stone as I might just make the trip to GOG and consider buying the 2.64 L if you don''t notice much tint in your stone.

Hi CCL,
there are already a couple photos of it set into my YG setting over here link

Personally, I am a lover of the lower colour grades (I am moving from a K colour RB), and especially in antique styled diamonds, it just seems ''right'' to me. But I will certainly try to give a critical analysis of the tint for you.

The 2.64 L would be a wonderful diamond, I would be extremely envious if you nab that one!
If you''re close enough, have you considered just taking the trip to GOG anyway for a bit of fun/education,
and asking Jon all of your questions in person, including about his ASET etc?

I''ve unfortunately never been as I live in Australia, but I''m always envious of PS''ers that get to visit GOG and meet Jon in person, as apparently he really makes an effort to show and tell you alot of things and make a true experience out of it.
If/when I do get to visit the US, a trip over to GOG is high on my list, if nothing else just to meet Jon and the lovely team that have helped me alot.

As to the ASET setup, I couldn''t comment specifically, except to say that I heard Jon mention something along the lines of that they have one of the most advanced and sophisticated diamond labs in the US - this would go a ways to explaining why they have such accurate and consistent images.
I would take such comments from competitors with a big pinch of salt

I know Jon has too much integrity to do anything like altering images.

My cushion is due here on Tuesday, I''ll let you know my thoughts after that.

As soon as something in our colour range comes in we are driving to see him it is a 7 hour drive for us so I don''t want to make this trip twice!
All my discussions with Jon have been highly enjoyable his enthusiasm for these diamonds always shines through. It is too bad he thought I was someonelse in fairness my name does start with a J but I never inherited a family heirloom.

My Fiance really doesn''t like warmer colours too much and wants a platinum setting so we might just have to keep waiting a bit longer. I am willing to pay more for the higher colours although that doesn''t seem like what most people here want but its my preference at the moment.

 

[arjunajane]

Yeah,
I wouldn''t worry too much and just shoot Jon another email - I know he has crazy interest
over the hype surrounding these diamonds, with lots of different folks contacting him.
It''s almost impossible for vendors to match us to our screen names usually, I find.

I understand you and your girl are after the higher colours, and that''s great - each to his own.
I don''t have any agenda, I just thought you said you were interested in the L

If you''re both really sure you desire the higher colour grades (after doing real life comparisons and research
of well cut stones in various lighting conditions, not just online research), than I say buy what you want!

Good luck, I hope there is something for you in this new consignment - it''s all very exciting

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

LOL... I made you aware of what's coming. You're not in the dark. If I'm not mistaken doesn't your first name begin with a J. and you told me to forget about it that you inherited a diamond?

No that must be another guy that has a first name starting with J!

In fairness a warmth can be seen but in natural ambient lighting its all but an afterthought. Ie. the first word going through my mind as I'm in that natural lighting isn't yellow.

You do see it moreso at a tilt but even the clients who are purchasing it can't believe it's an N. They came to my store 2x and saw it during the evening in our store and also during the daytime.

If the 2.64 L is still available we will look at in the store but we are going with a platinum setting and micropave halo so my Fiance will notice the tint more than in say a yellow gold setting. As soon as you have something close to a G or H we will make the trip to come and see you. I have been looking forward to it.

Just one correction. It's not OMB's. It's OMC's as in Old Mine Cushion's

I do agree with you based on the facet pattern that I see. However the GIA certificates all say OMB for your cuts and I couldn't find the stones under the plain cushion search on your site so I adopted the name Old Mine Brilliant instead.
Since there really are 4 larger mains on the N/S E/W axis and the 1,5,7,11 o'clock facets are much smaller I'd say it really does look like an OMC why would GIA call them OMBs?

I wonder if the light coming in directly down at the culet or slightly off centre hits the pavillion facets and can reflect at different angles changing the reflects of the 8 mains under the table. Any Thoughts?
If I told you I'd have to kill you.

Yeah Yeah Yeah the best way to protect a pending patent is to keep the information a secret. I was doing some research on a stomach ulcer drug many years ago and this issue came up and the delay of the publication of the work.
I really am just an ethusiastic customer wanting to learn as much as I can about the optics of these cushions. I am finishing a Masters in Physical Chemistry so some of the angles and optics work is also interesting to me from an academic perspective.

Their spread is fine. If you look at some of the earlier clips I do compare a 1.04ct OEC with a 61-62% depth with a 1.07ct Signature OMC and their sizes are pretty comparable.

I am perfectly happy with 65% depth in your stones although I'd prefer a 65% one rather than a 68% one if given the chance. I will try to find that OEC/OMC comparison video on vimeo that is interesting.

The pic you attached shows an OMC facet structure but the proportions do not look promising

Which proportions do not look promising? Teach me Obi Wan. Oh yeah as an aside thanks for using Beatles music in the videos thats great! You chose some of my favourite beatles tunes!

jot me an email as I just received an estimate on the next batch of goodies

Check your Inbox email has been sent.
One last question:
This diamond http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/5900/ doesn't look quite as nice as the other ones an in general the 2.64L has the nicest cut to me. Any thoughts on this? Is that because the G one is slightly older than the rest and you have perfected something more in the L coloured batch?

Regards,
CCL

 

[arjunajane]

CCN,

I realize you are not asking me here, but just a couple points:
- I wouldn''t go off the names on GIA reports, they have all sorts of crazy names for fancies that often
don''t make alot of sense.
- If you go to the diamond search page at GOG there is a check box for "Old Mine Cushion" in the bottom row.

- Do check out that vimeo on the OEC/OMC comparison, which Jon shot to help me decide. Here''s the link http://www.vimeo.com/5133448

imho, the OEC does look just a *titch* larger in some lighting, but for a fancy the OMC more than holds its own, and the difference wasn''t enough to sway me personally. I''m no good at math so I can''t work out the exact percentage or anything, but in going from a 1.25 Ideal cut RB to a 1.08 OMC, I am losing (I think) less than 1mm in face up size..care to work it out for me ?

- You shouldn''t let the choice of a plat setting and micropave sway your decision on the "main attraction" too much - search for a thread here "J colour diamonds in platinum" (or something like that), lots of photos and they all look beautiful. The topic of warmer diamonds in plat has been discussed many times here, and it seems the consensus is it doesn''t really matter that much either way, you should just buy what makes you happy.Personally I love YG on my tone, hence my preference - it didn''t have anything to do with my choice of diamond though. Infact, imho an all plat setting will likely make your stone appear brighter, not more tinted.
Also (perhaps depending on who you''re working with), often pave can be matched to the centre stone, so you don''t have to worry too much about having an L centre and F/G melee, just fyi.

- ha ha, I could perhaps be close to one of your enemies if you were pipped to the post on that ulcer research....(just pure speculation here!)..

 

[DiamondFlame]

Thanks alot guys. There''s nothing like a discussion on cushion cuts to get me all excited! And those videos from GoG are godsent (great job, Jon!). I started out planning to go with an F or a G. But after looking through the range of colors, I realised I tend to like DEF colors on certain cuts e.g. ECs, RBs but somehow prefer lower colors K-M on cushions, OMCs, OECs. So my advice to you would be to go with an open mind and let the stones ''speak'' for themselves. You might be pleasantly surprised at your shortlist...

 

[chrono]

Date: 6/28/2009 12:57:52 PM
Author: DiamondFlame
Thanks alot guys. There''s nothing like a discussion on cushion cuts to get me all excited! And those videos from GoG are godsent (great job, Jon!). I started out planning to go with an F or a G. But after looking through the range of colors, I realised I tend to like DEF colors on certain cuts e.g. ECs, RBs but somehow prefer lower colors K-M on cushions, OMCs, OECs. So my advice to you would be to go with an open mind and let the stones ''speak'' for themselves. You might be pleasantly surprised at your shortlist...

Same here; I find that I like DEF for step cuts, GHI for RBs and JKL for antique cuts like OECs and OMCs. They just tend to go with the look and feel of the diamonds.

 

[CharmyPoo]

It seems like you got all the information you need. I just wanted to chime in and say good luck with your search.

I am a pain in the butt customer with really specific asks of my future cushion. I have waited for 7 months now and I guess I am still waiting.

I have a modern cushion right now which I do love but I have my heart set on an OMC. My challenge is finding something with high color and clarity .. and being a perfect square.

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Date: 6/28/2009 12:12:23 PM
Author: arjunajane
CCN,

I realize you are not asking me here, but just a couple points:
- I wouldn't go off the names on GIA reports, they have all sorts of crazy names for fancies that often
don't make alot of sense.
- If you go to the diamond search page at GOG there is a check box for 'Old Mine Cushion' in the bottom row.

- Do check out that vimeo on the OEC/OMC comparison, which Jon shot to help me decide. Here's the link http://www.vimeo.com/5133448

imho, the OEC does look just a *titch* larger in some lighting, but for a fancy the OMC more than holds its own, and the difference wasn't enough to sway me personally. I'm no good at math so I can't work out the exact percentage or anything, but in going from a 1.25 Ideal cut RB to a 1.08 OMC, I am losing (I think) less than 1mm in face up size..care to work it out for me ?

- You shouldn't let the choice of a plat setting and micropave sway your decision on the 'main attraction' too much - search for a thread here 'J colour diamonds in platinum' (or something like that), lots of photos and they all look beautiful. The topic of warmer diamonds in plat has been discussed many times here, and it seems the consensus is it doesn't really matter that much either way, you should just buy what makes you happy.Personally I love YG on my tone, hence my preference - it didn't have anything to do with my choice of diamond though. Infact, imho an all plat setting will likely make your stone appear brighter, not more tinted.
Also (perhaps depending on who you're working with), often pave can be matched to the centre stone, so you don't have to worry too much about having an L centre and F/G melee, just fyi.

- ha ha, I could perhaps be close to one of your enemies if you were pipped to the post on that ulcer research....(just pure speculation here!)..

Well the GOG cushions should be called Old Mine Cut Cushions (OMCC) and on the GIA Cert it should say Old Mine Cut. The current name and facet plot on these certs is not even correct Silly GIA!! Can anyone show me a high quality closeup of a real Old Mine Brilliant diamond.