Opinion on diamond

[stenb93]

Hi PS,

I am looking to buy a 1ct solitarie diamond ring for my GF.

In that regard I have been in contact with two jewellers, and one of them has offered me below diamond. This diamond is on the limit of my budget, but if this is not performing well, i would rather "down-size" or find another one.

Looking forward to hear your thoughts.

Shape	Round Brilliant
Measurements	6.41 - 6.46 x 4.07 mm
Carat Weight	1.03 carat
Color Grade	G
Clarity Grade	SI2
Cut Grade	Excellent

Polish	Excellent
Symmetry	Excellent

Depth	63.2%
Table	57%
Crown Angle	34.5°
Crown Height	15.0%
Pavilion Angle	41.8°
Pavilion Depth	44.5%
Star Length	50%
Lower Half	75%
Girdle	Thin to Slightly Thick, Faceted, 3.5%
Culet	None

 

[DejaWiz]

Hello and welcome to PriceScope, stenb93!

You can do much better for proportions and angles...this 41.8/34.5/57 combo isn't conducive for great optical performance.

Have a look at the PriceScope recommend proportions education page:

Diamond Proportions

The physics of light-behavior within a diamond are reliably consistent, which means proportions measurements can be useful.

www.pricescope.com

 

[Kim N]

Would you be open to buying online? If you let us know your budget and country, we can help you find a better cut diamond.

 

[sledge]

Please don’t buy this stone. It’s a classic “steep deep” with 34.5/41.8 and 63.2 depth. It will leak light and not have good performance. Additionally because it is overly deep and carrying excess carat weight in the vertical plane (depth) it won’t have the proper horizontal spread (circumference) of a properly cut stone so it will actually look small for its carat weight.

Additionally SI2 stones are hit/miss on being eye clean. Some exist but most aren’t. I’d probably consider SI1 as a minimum.

What is your budget so we can toss a few options your way?

 

[sledge]

Here’s a few super ideal options to consider. These are going to have maximum light performance and all the credentials to prove it. Not knowing your exact budget I presented a few different potential target areas.

Diamond | 0.800 ct H VS2 Expert Selection Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4555905

This fabulous 0.800 carat Round Ideal cut diamond has a clarity grade of VS2 and color grade of H.It is an excellent choice for engagement rings. | 4555905

www.whiteflash.com

Diamond | 0.907 ct H SI1 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4531069

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 0.907 carat H color SI1 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4531069

www.whiteflash.com

Diamond | 1.043 ct G SI1 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4494076

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 1.043 carat G color SI1 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4494076

www.whiteflash.com

 

[PhilosopherStone]

Agreed, the proportions are not ideal. I have also found that exact diamond from Adiamor (unavailable), there are definitely more well cut diamonds out there. The options that @sledge presented are really nice, Whiteflash provides a lot of well cut diamonds with useful information like the IDEAL-SCOPE, ASET and HEARTS imaging - Definitely check them out.

 

[stenb93]

Thanks for all the replies!

I can see that I should not go for the proposed diamond.

I live in Denmark, so it should be possible to have it shipped to Denmark if bought online.

My budget is EUR 4,000-6,750 / USD 4,400 - 7,300 including a solitaire ring.

Where and what should i consider? I want the diamond as large as possible, but of course still with optimal performance.

 

[sledge]

Are you okay with a simple white gold or yellow gold solitaire? If not, do you have a pic of something you had in mind? And does your budget include duties and VAT?

In regards to the stone, you mentioned as big as possible. You were already at SI2 clarity. Are you willing to consider an H or I color, or is G the minimum. I ask because you were prioritizing size and I’m trying to find your unique balance of size, color, clarity and cut.

No worries though, we got you and will find something amazing

 

[Kim N]

Thanks for all the replies!

I can see that I should not go for the proposed diamond.

I live in Denmark, so it should be possible to have it shipped to Denmark if bought online.

My budget is EUR 4,000-6,750 / USD 4,400 - 7,300 including a solitaire ring.

Where and what should i consider? I want the diamond as large as possible, but of course still with optimal performance.

Here's an option for you from Blue Nile.

https://www.bluenile.com/dk/diamond-details/LD21342908

https://www.bluenile.com/dk/engagement-rings/design-your-own-ring/six-claw-petite-nouveau-14k-white-gold_48876

 

[PhilosopherStone]

Here's an option for you from Blue Nile.

https://www.bluenile.com/dk/diamond-details/LD21342908

https://www.bluenile.com/dk/engagement-rings/design-your-own-ring/six-claw-petite-nouveau-14k-white-gold_48876

That's a nice find at VS2 clarity and great proportions!

 

[stenb93]

Are you okay with a simple white gold or yellow gold solitaire? If not, do you have a pic of something you had in mind? And does your budget include duties and VAT?

In regards to the stone, you mentioned as big as possible. You were already at SI2 clarity. Are you willing to consider an H or I color, or is G the minimum. I ask because you were prioritizing size and I’m trying to find your unique balance of size, color, clarity and cut.

No worries though, we got you and will find something amazing

I am looking for a normal Yellow Gold solitaire.

My budget includes duties and VAT.

I am willing to consider any combination!

 

[stenb93]

Here's an option for you from Blue Nile.

https://www.bluenile.com/dk/diamond-details/LD21342908

https://www.bluenile.com/dk/engagement-rings/design-your-own-ring/six-claw-petite-nouveau-14k-white-gold_48876

Thanks. I Think that this is on the Brink of my budget, as i would prefer to have a jeweller make the ring, and i Can bring the diamond. Is that stupid?

If I buy a Diamond online, who has the risk if the mail Company looses it?

 

[sledge]

It appears to me tax & duties is around 27.5% total for a diamond ring. So we need to adjust your budget as follows:

EUR = 3,200 to 5,400
USD = 3,520 to 5,840

I need to do some more checking, but it may drop to 25% for a loose stone only. Not much difference. I’d rather figure conservatively.

It’s not crazy to use a local or different jeweler for the setting. I did this for my wife. Bought her stone from BGD in TX and had DK in CA make the setting and set the stone who then shipped it back to me across the US in a different state.

The key is making sure you talk with the local jeweler to ensure he is okay with setting an outside stone. In my case, my wife’s setting was a custom job and it was a non-issue. Sometimes a local guy might charge a small “setting fee” to mount the stone.

In regards to insurance, the vendor should insure the stone during transit. Where it gets risky is who assumes the liability when setting the stone. In my case it was clear DK had that responsibility and insurance in case the stone was damaged during the setting process. It doesn’t always happen but there is a mild chance it could occur. So again I’d encourage you to talk these details through with your local jeweler.

FWIW, it is good to establish a relationship with a local guy. All my stuff was done elsewhere and I have moved a few times since but continue to make relationships with local jewelers for routine cleanings, inspections and other normal maintenance.

If you use the local guy for the setting, do we need to take that money out of your budget above for a stone only? If so, how much so we can accurately determine the stone only budget?

 

[momofive]

Just to add my two cents, not being as experienced as the above PSrs. My diamond is a G color and to me it is very white. Don’t be afraid of the color grade as friends on here as well as the representative from the vendor who is seeing the stone in person, will help you choose one that gives great light return with sparkle, fire and brilliance! Good luck!

 

[stenb93]

It appears to me tax & duties is around 27.5% total for a diamond ring. So we need to adjust your budget as follows:

EUR = 3,200 to 5,400
USD = 3,520 to 5,840

I need to do some more checking, but it may drop to 25% for a loose stone only. Not much difference. I’d rather figure conservatively.

It’s not crazy to use a local or different jeweler for the setting. I did this for my wife. Bought her stone from BGD in TX and had DK in CA make the setting and set the stone who then shipped it back to me across the US in a different state.

The key is making sure you talk with the local jeweler to ensure he is okay with setting an outside stone. In my case, my wife’s setting was a custom job and it was a non-issue. Sometimes a local guy might charge a small “setting fee” to mount the stone.

In regards to insurance, the vendor should insure the stone during transit. Where it gets risky is who assumes the liability when setting the stone. In my case it was clear DK had that responsibility and insurance in case the stone was damaged during the setting process. It doesn’t always happen but there is a mild chance it could occur. So again I’d encourage you to talk these details through with your local jeweler.

FWIW, it is good to establish a relationship with a local guy. All my stuff was done elsewhere and I have moved a few times since but continue to make relationships with local jewelers for routine cleanings, inspections and other normal maintenance.

If you use the local guy for the setting, do we need to take that money out of your budget above for a stone only? If so, how much so we can accurately determine the stone only budget?

Thanks. I have talked to a local jeweller who is willing to make a ring and mount the diamond for EUR 1,000 / USD 1,100

It sounds fine regarding the insurance during transit from the vendor.

 

[NY_Resonant]

I agree with momofive, to my eyes the G color is very white… Both face down and on a side view. Keep in mind this was for a loose stone and people tell me that a white gold or platinum prongs also whitens the stone more.

I recommend you go to a local jeweler and check out a couple of H stones. Both loose and in a ring setting. Look at it from different angles. You may find you are perfectly happy with an H which would open up a lot more options for you here.

 

[stenb93]

I have seen both I and H diamonds in real life, that were way more interesting to look at compared to higher colour grades. So I am defitinely not afraid of buying a G/H/I stone.

 

[sledge]

A couple of thoughts. Using yellow gold definitely makes an H/I color more feasible and helps with size for the budgeted amount. The final answer boils down to the color sensitivity and tolerance of you and her. I'm attaching some pics of my wife's stone, H/VS2 in palladium (white metal) setting. Overall, white, but there is hint of color. My wife notices it more than me, but says she isn't bothered by it. If this were set in yellow metal, lower or had more of the metal that covered the stone then it wouldn't be as noticeable.

I am curious what the setting looks like that the local jeweler has. There are 500 EUR options available, which would let you stick more into the diamond. That seems more logical to me, but perhaps it's not a plain solitaire like I am thinking. Can you provide a little more feedback? Even if it's not an exact picture of the local setting, if we find something close it helps us compare apples-to-apples from a price perspective.

 

[NY_Resonant]

Personally I never looked at I colored stones so I can’t opine there. If your budget for the stone is 7300-1100=6200 all-in, we need a stone around 5k or under.

Here are two you might want to consider:

0.96 Carat H VS2 Round Brilliant Natural Diamond GIA Certified Affinity Cut - D52009167

0.96 carat, Round, H Color, VS2 clarity, GIA Certified Diamond, Affinity Cut Natural Diamond, D52009167

www.adiamor.com

Diamond | 0.851 ct H VVS2 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4538529

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 0.851 carat H color VVS2 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4538529

www.whiteflash.com

Whiteflash one definitely provides the quality but it’s slightly over your budget by $200-ish and a bit smaller. Personally I’d be tempted by the adiamor one.

 

[stenb93]

A couple of thoughts. Using yellow gold definitely makes an H/I color more feasible and helps with size for the budgeted amount. The final answer boils down to the color sensitivity and tolerance of you and her. I'm attaching some pics of my wife's stone, H/VS2 in palladium (white metal) setting. Overall, white, but there is hint of color. My wife notices it more than me, but says she isn't bothered by it. If this were set in yellow metal, lower or had more of the metal that covered the stone then it wouldn't be as noticeable.

I am curious what the setting looks like that the local jeweler has. There are 500 EUR options available, which would let you stick more into the diamond. That seems more logical to me, but perhaps it's not a plain solitaire like I am thinking. Can you provide a little more feedback? Even if it's not an exact picture of the local setting, if we find something close it helps us compare apples-to-apples from a price perspective.

Thats a beatiful ring!

I have not decided on the actual design yet, but it would be a more plain yellow gold solitaire ring, and thats also why the budget for the ring is estimated at EUR 1,000. The EUR 500 should not be a deciding factor, as I am willing to stretch the overall budget if it makes sense.

 

[sledge]

Thank you. It was a custom and I nearly pulled my hair out getting it designed for my lovely bride, lol.

Okay, so here are some options...might be stretching on color/budget just a tad but wanted to see your thoughts. Normally I wouldn't recommend VVS+ clarity but given you can capture 15% off using VVS2023 promo code, maybe it makes sense.

Overall, this would push you a little over your budget but if you chose one of the J's you'd hit the official 1ct+ range, have a H&A super ideal, amazing clarity, superb lifetime upgrade program and get to work with a top tier vendor.

BGD Signature H&A 1.008 J/IF @ $6,880 wire ($5,848 after 15% discount)

1.008 J IF Signature RoundDefault Title

Buy diamonds online - AGS Graded 1.008 carat J IF super ideal cut Brian Gavin Hearts & Arrows Round Cut diamond. Lifetime Upgrade Policy!

www.briangavindiamonds.com

BGD Signature H&A 1.022 J/VVS2 @ $6,913 wire ($5,876 after 15% discount)

1.022 J VVS2 Signature RoundDefault Title

Brian Gavin Diamonds

www.briangavindiamonds.com

BGD Signature 0.915 I/VVS2 @ $6,940 wire ($5,899 after 15% discount)

0.915 I VVS2 Signature RoundDefault Title

Buy diamonds online - AGS Graded 0.915 carat I VVS2 super ideal cut Brian Gavin Hearts & Arrows Round Cut diamond. Lifetime Upgrade Policy!

www.briangavindiamonds.com

Several different solitaire options. I prefer 6 prong and would ask Leslie @ BGD if you could swap to a 6-prong head on these. And also do claw prongs as opposed to tabs. Probably the Ashleigh is my favorite, but YMMV.

All are priced @ $595/ea in 14k YG.

This would put your USD price about $6,500, which is above that $5,840 adjusted budget by a little.

Ashleigh14K Yellow Gold / No

Elegant Cathedral Style solitaire featuring 2 x 1.8mm F/G VS Brian Gavin Signature melee. Price is for setting only for Round stones ONLY up to 2 carats. Add $150 for diamonds larger than 2 carats. Select your diamond from our extensive online catalog. Hand shot is with at 0.50 carat diamond.

www.briangavindiamonds.com

Jasmine14K Yellow Gold / No

Classic 4 prong solitaire with a leaf style accent in the basket - for round diamonds only measuring approx. 5.2mm, 5.8mm and 6.5mm in diameter. Select your diamond from our extensive online diamond inventory.

www.briangavindiamonds.com

The Simone14K Yellow Gold / No

A flowing cathedral style shank meets up with an unique customized 4 prong head with claw prongs. Price is for setting only for diamonds up to 2 carats. Add $150 for diamonds larger than 2 carats. Select your diamond from our extensive online Brian Gavin diamond inventory.

www.briangavindiamonds.com

 

[sledge]

Another option. This stone is what WF categorizes as a "near miss ACA" and as such falls into their "Expert Selection" category. These are still splendid stones and as evidenced still much better than most stuff you will find. Also, they still come with WF's amazing trade-in policy. Actually better than BGD's trade policy. WF is simply upgrade to a stone of equal or better value, no other strings. BGD requires you upgrade 2 of the following 3 C's: color, clarity or carats.

WF Expert Select 0.952 I/VS1 @ $5,816 wire

Diamond | 0.952 ct I VS1 Expert Selection Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4473418

This fabulous 0.952 carat Round Ideal cut diamond has a clarity grade of VS1 and color grade of I.It is an excellent choice for engagement rings. | 4473418

www.whiteflash.com

Absolutely gorgeous proportions....55.9 table, 34,4/40.8, 61.7 depth, 76 LGF's. And it has an AGS lab report which we all value highly. Also, size is *nearly* that of the 1 carat G you first mentioned. This one measures 6.30. The other was around 6.40mm. That 0.10mm is so miniscule your eye won't even detect it. It takes about 0.20mm in a side-by-side comparison before we start to see a meaningful difference w/ the naked eye.

Anyhow, the advantage here is you get the I color and plenty of clarity at VS1. Again, not targeting that high of clarity, it's just what was available. Yeah, weight is not technically 1 carat, but visually it will size up the same to your naked eye.

The reason it's a "near miss" and not ACA is because there is a little digging on the crown. This is noticed by the additional green on the outside edges of the ASET image. I'd prefer to avoid this, but I trust WF and they do things in the interest of improving beauty, whereas others aren't always as well intentioned.

Overall a very solid choice.

With WF I would couple with their $481 Valoria solitaire. Simple, eloquent and 6 prongs. Also 14k YG and an amazing price.

Valoria Petite Six Prong Solitaire Engagement Ring | 6161

Embrace the classic charm of the Valoria Petite Six Prong Solitaire Engagement Ring. Find your dream ring at Whiteflash and symbolize your everlasting bond. | 6161

www.whiteflash.com

This gets you to about $6,300 so a little cheaper. And very little compromise.

 

[stenb93]

Thank you. It was a custom and I nearly pulled my hair out getting it designed for my lovely bride, lol.

Okay, so here are some options...might be stretching on color/budget just a tad but wanted to see your thoughts. Normally I wouldn't recommend VVS+ clarity but given you can capture 15% off using VVS2023 promo code, maybe it makes sense.

Overall, this would push you a little over your budget but if you chose one of the J's you'd hit the official 1ct+ range, have a H&A super ideal, amazing clarity, superb lifetime upgrade program and get to work with a top tier vendor.

BGD Signature H&A 1.008 J/IF @ $6,880 wire ($5,848 after 15% discount)

1.008 J IF Signature RoundDefault Title

Buy diamonds online - AGS Graded 1.008 carat J IF super ideal cut Brian Gavin Hearts & Arrows Round Cut diamond. Lifetime Upgrade Policy!

www.briangavindiamonds.com

BGD Signature H&A 1.022 J/VVS2 @ $6,913 wire ($5,876 after 15% discount)

1.022 J VVS2 Signature RoundDefault Title

Brian Gavin Diamonds

www.briangavindiamonds.com

BGD Signature 0.915 I/VVS2 @ $6,940 wire ($5,899 after 15% discount)

0.915 I VVS2 Signature RoundDefault Title

Buy diamonds online - AGS Graded 0.915 carat I VVS2 super ideal cut Brian Gavin Hearts & Arrows Round Cut diamond. Lifetime Upgrade Policy!

www.briangavindiamonds.com

Several different solitaire options. I prefer 6 prong and would ask Leslie @ BGD if you could swap to a 6-prong head on these. And also do claw prongs as opposed to tabs. Probably the Ashleigh is my favorite, but YMMV.

All are priced @ $595/ea in 14k YG.

This would put your USD price about $6,500, which is above that $5,840 adjusted budget by a little.

Ashleigh14K Yellow Gold / No

Elegant Cathedral Style solitaire featuring 2 x 1.8mm F/G VS Brian Gavin Signature melee. Price is for setting only for Round stones ONLY up to 2 carats. Add $150 for diamonds larger than 2 carats. Select your diamond from our extensive online catalog. Hand shot is with at 0.50 carat diamond.

www.briangavindiamonds.com

Jasmine14K Yellow Gold / No

Classic 4 prong solitaire with a leaf style accent in the basket - for round diamonds only measuring approx. 5.2mm, 5.8mm and 6.5mm in diameter. Select your diamond from our extensive online diamond inventory.

www.briangavindiamonds.com

The Simone14K Yellow Gold / No

A flowing cathedral style shank meets up with an unique customized 4 prong head with claw prongs. Price is for setting only for diamonds up to 2 carats. Add $150 for diamonds larger than 2 carats. Select your diamond from our extensive online Brian Gavin diamond inventory.

www.briangavindiamonds.com

Thanks. To sum up below have been proposed so far:

https://www.bluenile.com/dk/diamond-details/LD21342908 - 1.02ct, E, VS2 - EUR 6,289 / USD 6,812

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4494076.htm?a_aid=PS 1.043ct, G, SI1 - EUR 7,275 / USD 7,881

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4531069.htm?a_aid=PS 0.907ct, H, SI1, EUR 5,989 / USD 6,488

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4555905.htm?a_aid=PS 0.8ct, H, VS2, EUR 3,676 / USD 3,983

https://www.adiamor.com/Diamonds/0....7?rfr=sa&utm_campaign=202301.01&b=4.562&p=1&# 0.96ct, H, VS2, EUR 4,211 / USD 4,562

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4538529.htm?a_aid=PS 0.851ct, H, VVS2, EUR 4,854 / USD 5,259

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4473418.htm 0.952 ct, I, VS1, EUR 5,534 / USD 5,995

Since I am a novice, i can understand and relate to the difference in ct.
But how would you rank above diamonds based on everything else than ct and price?

And could you explain what is meant with the trade policy?

 

[sledge]

Here are two you might want to consider:

0.96 Carat H VS2 Round Brilliant Natural Diamond GIA Certified Affinity Cut - D52009167

0.96 carat, Round, H Color, VS2 clarity, GIA Certified Diamond, Affinity Cut Natural Diamond, D52009167

www.adiamor.com

I'd want to ask Adiamor for some advanced images. They may or may not have them available, but it's a free ask. Proportions are mostly in-line. The 35.5 crown is pushing the fringe, but it's paired with a complimentary 40.6 pavilion.

Also, I noticed the pavilion depth is listed at 42.5%. A perfect 40.6 mathematically equates to 42.8%. Given how GIA rounds, this tells me some of the actual values are hitting lower than 40.6.

Also, it has a very small culet as opposed to none.

Having the advanced images would help confirm the stone's actual performance.

 

[sledge]

Thanks. To sum up below have been proposed so far:

https://www.bluenile.com/dk/diamond-details/LD21342908 - 1.02ct, E, VS2 - EUR 6,289 / USD 6,812

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4494076.htm?a_aid=PS 1.043ct, G, SI1 - EUR 7,275 / USD 7,881

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4531069.htm?a_aid=PS 0.907ct, H, SI1, EUR 5,989 / USD 6,488

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4555905.htm?a_aid=PS 0.8ct, H, VS2, EUR 3,676 / USD 3,983

https://www.adiamor.com/Diamonds/0....7?rfr=sa&utm_campaign=202301.01&b=4.562&p=1&# 0.96ct, H, VS2, EUR 4,211 / USD 4,562

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4538529.htm?a_aid=PS 0.851ct, H, VVS2, EUR 4,854 / USD 5,259

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4473418.htm 0.952 ct, I, VS1, EUR 5,534 / USD 5,995

Since I am a novice, i can understand and relate to the difference in ct.
But how would you rank above diamonds based on everything else than ct and price?

And could you explain what is meant with the trade policy?

In short, there are what we call "super ideal" vendors. These guys focus on creating the most perfect cut and symmetry of all diamonds. There is a very small percent of diamonds that meet their stringent criteria. Whiteflash (WF) is one of those super ideal vendors. So is Brian Gavin Diamonds (BGD) that was also recommended. You will see their in-house diamonds not only have normal pictures and videos, but also ASET, idealscope and hearts images. Additionally, upon request, they can provide a detailed Sarine report, which shows the values of ALL the crown & pavilion angles and not just a summarized single value like the lab reports show.

These stones normally cost more for a few reasons:

1. All diamonds get cut from what is called "rough". By and far, most stones are cut for maximum weight because truthfully more carats = more profit, even if the cut quality isn't as good. Super ideal vendors focus on cut quality and not weight retention, so while they do try to minimize waste they will not sacrifice cut quality to do so and consequently have a larger inefficiency factor.

2. Additional time to do the actual planning and precision cutting.

3. Better lab reports. AGS is infamous for providing a true cut grade using their 3D scan which also creates & prints a computer generated ASET on the lab report. Getting the 000 cut criteria is special as the criteria for receiving that is very stringent. In comparison, GIA has a very broad definition of what can receive XXX accreditation. While few XXX stones will ever meet 000 requirements, all 000 stones will easily meet XXX requirements.

4. Effective 12/2022, AGS stopped providing lab reporting services. Instead they are somewhat teamed with GIA so that for an additional fee and upon request from the submitting party an "addendum" can be purchased and added to the normal GIA report that provides the cut criterion and CG ASET image.

5. In addition to providing better reports and the CG ASET images, super ideal vendors also understand that actual images (not just CG images) provide more accurate and detailed information about the stone. So you will notice that WF and BGD offers these advanced images, which takes time, costly equipment and stringent procedures to accurately reproduce for each of their stones.

6. Super ideal vendors tend to offer the best upgrade policies. While some are better than others, all generally offer 100% original value towards a new stone. Other vendors usually have less generous terms. One vendor allows 100% but you have to spend 2X the amount. Others may only offer 50% with their own terms.

In short, super ideals cost more because they are amongst the best cut stones in the world. If you want guaranteed performance, then they are an "easy button" approach to buying a diamond. I find them especially beneficial for an international buyer from a risk management perspective due to the fact they provide the most information to make an informed decision about the cut performance of the stone. Without those advanced images, we are somewhat taking a best guess. For a domestic buyer this isn't such a big deal because most have good return policies and can be swapped for a better performing stone if something isn't perfect; however, for an international buyer, that requires much more hassle, duties and taxes.

I support doing whatever a buyer wants to do; however, I see the many benefits of super ideals and think they offer a superb value, although they are rarely the least amount of dollars to procure.

 

[NY_Resonant]

I'd want to ask Adiamor for some advanced images. They may or may not have them available, but it's a free ask. Proportions are mostly in-line. The 35.5 crown is pushing the fringe, but it's paired with a complimentary 40.6 pavilion.

Also, I noticed the pavilion depth is listed at 42.5%. A perfect 40.6 mathematically equates to 42.8%. Given how GIA rounds, this tells me some of the actual values are hitting lower than 40.6.

Also, it has a very small culet as opposed to none.

Having the advanced images would help confirm the stone's actual performance.

Hi Sledge,

Are your tastes generally to the 34-35 crown angle balanced brilliance/fire setups? One of the reasons I listed the Adiamor diamond was that based on what I had been reading, the 35.5 crown matched with the 40.6 pavilion angle and 56 table should produce a very nice fiery diamond?

Very informative use of the pavilion depth to gauge which direction the “rounding” of the pavilion angle is likely to lean towards! Thanks for that!

The GIA measurement roundings are really frustrating when trying to optimize.

 

[sledge]

More information on WF and BGD upgrade policies below. In short, they can be summarized as follows:

1. WF is more generous. You get 100% trade value when you wish to trade stones as long as the new stone is equal to or great in value than the original stone. There are no other strings. Let's say you bought the 0.952 I/VS1 stone. Later, you find I is too warm and want a G but can't afford to go bigger. No problem. Maybe there is a 0.85 G/VS2 that is only $200 more than your original stone. You can trade "up" to this stone, even though it's technically smaller. This is where having no conditions is especially beneficially.

2. BGD is still generous but has different conditions. They still offer 100% trade value and they still require you to spend an equal or greater amount. The difference is you must also upgrade 2 of the following 3 characteristics when upgrading: carats, color or clarity. Let's say you bought the 0.915 I/VVS2 stone from them and like in the WF example, you find yourself wanting G color. In this scenario, color will be one of the C's you must upgrade. But must also upgrade either clarity or carats. Because your stone is already such high clarity, it would most likely be beneficial to upgrade carat weight. So in this fictitious example, you would be targeting a larger G color stone. This may not be very advantageous on smaller upgrades or swaps due to color preference, etc. However, going to a 1.5 carat G on your 10-year anniversary probably wouldn't be too problematic. The policy is still good, but just doesn't allow as much flexibility as the WF plan.

Lifetime Upgrade Guarantee | Whiteflash

A great upgrade policy is a big deal when buying a diamond. Whiteflash has the best benefits in the business including a 100% Lifetime Upgrade Guarantee.

www.whiteflash.com

Brian Gavin Diamonds

Shipping Loose diamonds are shipped within 2-3 business days of receiving payment. Rings and Settings may take approximately 15 business days depending on the nature of the ring, our workload and heavy seasonal orders. Custom rings and settings may require up to 4 weeks for completion. We ship...

www.briangavindiamonds.com

 

[sledge]

Hi Sledge,

Are your tastes generally to the 34-35 crown angle balanced brilliance/fire setups? One of the reasons I listed the Adiamor diamond was that based on what I had been reading, the 35.5 crown matched with the 40.6 pavilion angle and 56 table should produce a very nice fiery diamond?

Very informative use of the pavilion depth to gauge which direction the “rounding” of the pavilion angle is likely to lean towards! Thanks for that!

The GIA measurement roundings are really frustrating when trying to optimize.

Oddly enough, the stone I reserved and nearly bought my wife was a WF Expert Select with 56 table, 36/40.6, 80 LGF and 62.4 depth. And it too had a 42.50 reported pavilion depth.

Very similar to the report you posted, and actually a bit more on the fringe. So much it fell out of ACA range. Plus it had GIA report, as opposed to AGS. However, as you can see, the advanced images were very strong. And when I was considering I actually had WF pull and compare to other ACA's. The sales associates helping at the time said they all preferred this stone and couldn't pinpoint why it wasn't an ACA. I know now but didn't back then.

So no, I am not opposed to living on the fringe. It's just a risk game. And in this case, there are no publicized advanced images. It's a huge hassle to return a diamond internationally, get a refund or replacement, so I cautioned to ask for advanced images if they were available. I might add, a tall crown by itself isn't indicative of big fire. All proportions working in harmony is what it takes.

Diamond | 0.90 ct G VS1 Premium Select Round Cut Loose Diamond GIA Certified | 3945630

This fabulous 0.90 carat Round Excellent cut diamond has a clarity grade of VS1 and color grade of G.It is an excellent choice for diamond engagement rings or other fine diamond jewelry. | 3945630

www.whiteflash.com

 

[stenb93]

In short, there are what we call "super ideal" vendors. These guys focus on creating the most perfect cut and symmetry of all diamonds. There is a very small percent of diamonds that meet their stringent criteria. Whiteflash (WF) is one of those super ideal vendors. So is Brian Gavin Diamonds (BGD) that was also recommended. You will see their in-house diamonds not only have normal pictures and videos, but also ASET, idealscope and hearts images. Additionally, upon request, they can provide a detailed Sarine report, which shows the values of ALL the crown & pavilion angles and not just a summarized single value like the lab reports show.

These stones normally cost more for a few reasons:

1. All diamonds get cut from what is called "rough". By and far, most stones are cut for maximum weight because truthfully more carats = more profit, even if the cut quality isn't as good. Super ideal vendors focus on cut quality and not weight retention, so while they do try to minimize waste they will not sacrifice cut quality to do so and consequently have a larger inefficiency factor.

2. Additional time to do the actual planning and precision cutting.

3. Better lab reports. AGS is infamous for providing a true cut grade using their 3D scan which also creates & prints a computer generated ASET on the lab report. Getting the 000 cut criteria is special as the criteria for receiving that is very stringent. In comparison, GIA has a very broad definition of what can receive XXX accreditation. While few XXX stones will ever meet 000 requirements, all 000 stones will easily meet XXX requirements.

4. Effective 12/2022, AGS stopped providing lab reporting services. Instead they are somewhat teamed with GIA so that for an additional fee and upon request from the submitting party an "addendum" can be purchased and added to the normal GIA report that provides the cut criterion and CG ASET image.

5. In addition to providing better reports and the CG ASET images, super ideal vendors also understand that actual images (not just CG images) provide more accurate and detailed information about the stone. So you will notice that WF and BGD offers these advanced images, which takes time, costly equipment and stringent procedures to accurately reproduce for each of their stones.

6. Super ideal vendors tend to offer the best upgrade policies. While some are better than others, all generally offer 100% original value towards a new stone. Other vendors usually have less generous terms. One vendor allows 100% but you have to spend 2X the amount. Others may only offer 50% with their own terms.

In short, super ideals cost more because they are amongst the best cut stones in the world. If you want guaranteed performance, then they are an "easy button" approach to buying a diamond. I find them especially beneficial for an international buyer from a risk management perspective due to the fact they provide the most information to make an informed decision about the cut performance of the stone. Without those advanced images, we are somewhat taking a best guess. For a domestic buyer this isn't such a big deal because most have good return policies and can be swapped for a better performing stone if something isn't perfect; however, for an international buyer, that requires much more hassle, duties and taxes.

I support doing whatever a buyer wants to do; however, I see the many benefits of super ideals and think they offer a superb value, although they are rarely the least amount of dollars to procure.

Thanks for all the comprehensive information.

I understand that all presented alternatives are good choices, but how do I rank them individually?

 

[Kim N]

Thanks. To sum up below have been proposed so far:

https://www.bluenile.com/dk/diamond-details/LD21342908 - 1.02ct, E, VS2 - EUR 6,289 / USD 6,812

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4494076.htm?a_aid=PS 1.043ct, G, SI1 - EUR 7,275 / USD 7,881

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4531069.htm?a_aid=PS 0.907ct, H, SI1, EUR 5,989 / USD 6,488

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4555905.htm?a_aid=PS 0.8ct, H, VS2, EUR 3,676 / USD 3,983

https://www.adiamor.com/Diamonds/0....7?rfr=sa&utm_campaign=202301.01&b=4.562&p=1&# 0.96ct, H, VS2, EUR 4,211 / USD 4,562

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4538529.htm?a_aid=PS 0.851ct, H, VVS2, EUR 4,854 / USD 5,259

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4473418.htm 0.952 ct, I, VS1, EUR 5,534 / USD 5,995

Since I am a novice, i can understand and relate to the difference in ct.
But how would you rank above diamonds based on everything else than ct and price?

And could you explain what is meant with the trade policy?

My favorite is the last link in your list. It is the largest near super-ideal cut that's under EUR 5,600. You're guaranteed cut quality and the generous trade-up policy if you ever want to use it.