Opinion on Rubies for Engagement Ring

[TahitianMoon]

Hello everyone,

I am very excited to join this forum and hopefully participate in many discussions.

My boyfriend and I (more so my BF) are in the process of creating an engagement ring. I am completely in love with colored stones especially rubies and I am 100% sure I want a ruby engagement ring. We went to a gem dealer in the area and he showed us a few rubies. I believe they are all heat treated and a few treated with beryllium. Based on my research, I don't like the idea of heat treatments, especially beryllium treatments, but he seemed to convince us that trying to find an unheated ruby is pretty difficult.

Is it extremely difficult to find unheated rubies these days? Also, what are the cons of beryllium treatments, if any? I am not looking to ever sell it, so my concerns are probably a bit different than that of a gem collector. I'm just wondering what the effects beryllium has on the rubies for long-term everyday wear such as an engagement ring.

I was wondering if I may kindly request your opinion on the rubies we looked at. Any opinion would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you for your responses!



and a bit more closeup:

 

[OreoRosies86]

Heat is pretty standard for corundum, however color diffusion is more iffy turf. It can fade, and really it could be any stone dyed to look like another gem. With rubies you also have to take care that you are not buying anything lead filled.

 

[chrono]

www.pricescope.com/forum/colored-stones/new-to-coloured-gemstone-buying-read-this-first-t174284-30.html
There is a discussion of heat, residue, diffusion and other clarity enhancements towards the bottom of the page.

The original thread is here with pictures that did not make the transfer.
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/corundum-sapphire-and-ruby-treatment.175354/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/corundum-sapphire-and-ruby-treatment.175354/[/URL]

Unfortunately, there is more to consider than just heat treatment. There is the level of flux residue, diffusion, oiling, lead glass filling, etc. There are many unattractive untreated rubies but few fine quality untreated rubies, not to mention the cost. To achieve a reasonable balance, most go for a heated only ruby with minor or traces of flux. Few opt for diffusion in an engagement ring stone due to its very invasive treatment method. Diffusion requires heating almost to the melting point of the stone before an additional mineral is added to enhance the colour, akin to a dye except that the treatment is stable and permanent. The internal structure of the ruby has been completely and irrevocably altered though. A diffused ruby costs a fraction of a heated ruby for this reason and isn't widely accepted in the market.

 

[TahitianMoon]

Thank you for the responses, especially to Chrono for the link. I will definitely read up on the different types of treatments.

As for the photos of the rubies we looked at, which one would be the ideal color for a ruby? Or could you post a link to a photo of an ideal ruby color? I am reading anywhere from a light fire engine red, to a deeper red...

 

[chrono]

The ideal colour is a medium dark tone, pure red hue or with a very slight blue undertone, and vivid saturation. The terms are better explained here:
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/new-to-coloured-gemstone-buying-read-this-first.174284/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/new-to-coloured-gemstone-buying-read-this-first.174284/[/URL]

Dark red or fire engine red is too subjective, meaning different colours to different people, varying from truck to truck.

 

[TahitianMoon]

Dark red or fire engine red is too subjective, meaning different colours to different people, varying from truck to truck.

Yes, definitely subjective from "truck to truck"!

With the pictures I posted, in the third photo, with the first ruby, would an "ideal" ruby be darker or lighter than this one?

Sorry, I'm just trying to understand what I should be looking for in my search for a ruby. The guide is very informative, but I need visuals when it comes to tone, saturation, and hue.

 

[chrono]

Not knowing the light condition the rubies are photographed under, I have no idea if what I see is accurate. Gem-e-Wizard has a nifty colour chart where you can see how tone and saturation affects the beauty of a ruby, presuming a pure red hue.
http://www.gemewizard.com/newsletters/view_article.php?id=167

The cut of several rubies in the tray look somewhat lacking. I don't need precision cutting but the window in at least 2 of them are significant. When the window is large, it leaks light so that the center is dull and dead looking, allowing you to see your setting or finger underneath instead of seeing the ruby facets.

 

[TahitianMoon]

Thank you for all your help Chrono!

This last link is extremely helpful!

 

[chrono]

I could post this last night but will do so this morning since I am using my laptop. I would ignore the "pigeon's blood" descriptor and only go by what I see. The top desired colour covers a small range on the far most right of the picture.

 

[iLander]

Remember, it's not just a matter of us Psers being picky when it comes to treatments. It is also a matter of the value of the stone.

Small beryllium treated "rubies" are $5 on ebay. At least those honestly listed with treatments disclosed. I wouldn't bother to set a $5 stone in real gold. Here is an example of a GIANT beryllium ruby, 10 mm x 12mm, for only $300. So, if your jeweler is offering beryllium stones, don't be a sucker and pay too much.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/12-91ct-Exceptional-Top-Luster-Red-Ruby-Beryllium-/220575214845

If this was a heat only stone, it would be over $40K. If it was completely untreated, it would be over $100K.

There are plenty of decent rubies out there, heat only or untreated, but they require some searching and time. You can start by checking with our trusted vendors sticky on the top of the CS forum.

 

[TahitianMoon]

Thank you Chrono! Having visuals is very very helpful! Interesting to see the spectrum of shades of rubies.

 

[TahitianMoon]

Remember, it's not just a matter of us Psers being picky when it comes to treatments. It is also a matter of the value of the stone.

Wow, thank you for this information iLander! This is so helpful. We were so busy being concerned with the effects of treatments on long term-wear that we forgot the most basic aspect, which is, not paying too much for something that isn't worth much to begin with. The rubies we looked at were 1-2 carats and ranged from $1,000-$2,000 with some of them being beryllium treated. So your link showing how long a huge beryllium treated ruby costs, vs how much it would be if heated, and then also vs unheated, really puts prices into perspective. Thank you!

 

[treasurehunter]

Where are you looking ? Thailand, 100 percent sure they will try and con you , glass filled is the biggest concern .

 

[TahitianMoon]

Where are you looking ? Thailand, 100 percent sure they will try and con you , glass filled is the biggest concern .

I am in the San Francisco Bay Area. Unfortunately, I don't want to just go to any jewelry store for a pre-set ruby ring. So we asked around and found a gem dealer who we were told is reputable, and he did disclose to us that many of his rubies were beryllium treated, with a few being heated only. Just the price he was asking for, seems a bit high? I'm just concerned about buying a ruby over the internet, although it looks like some people have done that with success.

I was unaware of how often rubies are glass-filled. That's scary to hear!

So does that mean I should avoid Thai rubies if I'm buying them from the US?

 

[Bex]

Are you 100% sure you want a ruby or are you 100% sure you want a red stone? If color is your primary motivator, then you might want to look at red spinels. They've been confused with rubies for centuries...The Black Prince's Ruby (part of the UK crown jewels) is actually a giant spinel. One of the major upsides is that natural spinel is never treated or heated so you don't have to worry about that like you do with rubies. And they're far more affordable than rubies of the same size and color, but still durable enough to use in an engagement ring.

 

[treasurehunter]

no ,you should be wary IN thailand as there are many scammers, always ask for full disclosure of treatments for jewellers in usa as legally they have to , a certificate also helps .

 

[chrono]

There are also lead glass filled Burmese rubies, not just Thai rubies. To give you an idea of colour = price, take a look at GemFix. IIRC, Andrew is located in San Diego but you'll need to make an appointment to see the stones in person.
http://www.gemfix.com/ruby.html
http://www.gemfix.com/spinel.html

 

[JewelFreak]

It's so easy to get taken with rubies -- the vendors in the sticky above are ones people here have had experience with & recommend as reliable & knowledgeable & honest. Many new gem buyers have the heeby-jeebies about buying online, but you save significantly over brick & mortar stores, and those we've used have good return policies if you don't like what you ordered.

Very good advice to look at spinels. And not just as ruby lookalikes. They are wonderful in their own right; a good, eye-clean spinel has a depth of color you can almost fall into. They come in shades from pink to deep red. Or blue, if that appeals to you. As Bex wrote, they're less expensive (not because less beautiful), durable, and not treated. A spinel would leave you more money to spend on the setting.

Good luck -- hope you find just the stone you want!

 

[iLander]

Where are you looking ? Thailand, 100 percent sure they will try and con you , glass filled is the biggest concern .

I am in the San Francisco Bay Area. Unfortunately, I don't want to just go to any jewelry store for a pre-set ruby ring. So we asked around and found a gem dealer who we were told is reputable, and he did disclose to us that many of his rubies were beryllium treated, with a few being heated only. Just the price he was asking for, seems a bit high? I'm just concerned about buying a ruby over the internet, although it looks like some people have done that with success.

I was unaware of how often rubies are glass-filled. That's scary to hear!

So does that mean I should avoid Thai rubies if I'm buying them from the US?

Then you MUST go see Andrew at Gemfix, as Chrono said. He has a store, but it's appointment only.

Here is his online ruby selection http://www.gemfix.com/ruby.html He has MANY more that are not on the website, we're all sure you can find something that you like. The money should be in the stone, even if the setting is not quite what you want right now (but we can all help you find an inexpensive setting). You can upgrade the setting later for an anniversary a few years down the road. Settings are very common, but gemstones are one-of-a-kind, like snowflakes.

 

[MollyMalone]

Are you 100% sure you want a ruby or are you 100% sure you want a red stone? If color is your primary motivator, then you might want to look at red spinels. They've been confused with rubies for centuries...The Black Prince's Ruby (part of the UK crown jewels) is actually a giant spinel. One of the major upsides is that natural spinel is never treated or heated so you don't have to worry about that like you do with rubies. And they're far more affordable than rubies of the same size and color, but still durable enough to use in an engagement ring.

The suggestion to consider spinels is a great one, but alas, you can no longer assume that a spinel has not been heated/treated. If you use the Search function here, you'll see it's been a topic of discussion on the CS forum & here's a report -- Spinel and its Treatments: A Current Status Report -- American Gemological Laboratories published in November 2012:
http://aglgemlab.com/news/2012/11/13/spinel-and-its-treatments-a-current-status-report

 

[pregcurious]

Very true.

 

[TahitianMoon]

To everyone who responded:

Thank you so much for the great suggestions. I will definitely check out Gemfix. San Diego isn't too close to me, but it might be fun to make a trip out of it. San Diego is always fun and I want a stone I will be happy with.

As for rubies vs spinel, I love them both! I've been reading about spinel and find it so fascinating, how spinel is single refractive, and almost as hard as rubies. Interesting to know some of the gems in history considered rubies are actually spinel. My boyfriend is a little hesitant about getting me a spinel because, to him, like it probably is to the average person who is not a gem connoisseur, "just a ruby substitute." This is sad because I find spinel really beautiful in its own right!

Lastly, should I be concerned that spinel are being heat treated these days? Are they treated the same way as rubies?

And as for rubies, I know they all have inclusions, but how does one determine which inclusions are acceptable or preferred?

Thanks again everyone!

 

[treasurehunter]

Spinels are not heat treated.
A spinel is beautiful in its own right and is not pretending or trying to be a ruby or in any way a ruby substitute is in my opinion the vast quantities of glass filled C.R.A.P out there and other non ethical treatments.

Spinel is probably one of the most underrated stones by the way, I love a mahenge spinel personally like chromos photo ,every gem should be judged on its own right not on the name or certificate you have to get that feeling in your heart when you see a stone that speaks to you that jumps out , as there are many bad rubies and spinels , be patient …..

''It is probably foolish to compare one gem with another, but let me try. Regarding beauty, there is no question that red spinel does not hold its color under fluorescent lighting as well as ruby. Nevertheless, in natural or incandescent light, fine red spinels simply look gorgeous.
Spinel’s second traditional weakness compared to ruby is that its saturation is usually weaker. For this reason, “balas rubies” were in the past seen as “feminine” rubies: spinels, with the noticeable exception of some highly fluorescent spinels from the Namya deposit in Burma, are usually more pastel than rubies of equivalent hue and tone. With a colder beauty compared to ruby, spinel is nevertheless benefiting from the fact that the diamond industry has, during the last century, done a lot for the promotion of “cold beauty” and the pastel colors of colored diamonds.
Spinel can be truly seen as a modern gemstone as many aspects of the beauty of spinels are in the line with the tremendous marketing efforts that were carried out by the diamond industry. The influence of diamonds in the modern taste for beauty is obvious: nowadays gems have to be faceted, be highly transparent, and sparkle with an excellent cut and symmetry. Rubies do not entirely fit with this new trend.
Large spinels, being less expensive than rubies, are also usually better cut, as weight retention is less an issue. With a hardness of eight on Mohs’ Scale, they also achieve an excellent polish and spinel’s durability enables it to be used in all types of jewelry.
Like diamond, spinel is also singly refractive. The best spinels have a wonderful transparency difficult to find with doubly refractive stones like rubies (which are also usually included and silky).
The combination of good cut and polish, high transparency and attractive color makes large, clean spinels truly beautiful and lively sparkling gems which will perfectly fit the modern taste for beauty in colored gemstones. Red spinel also has another interesting advantage: diversity. Red spinels are today found in four localities around the world, each of which produces stones with slightly different colors and transparency.''

Quote from Vincent Pardieut Fieldgemology.org
Vincent pardieut

 

[chrono]

TreasureHunter,
I'm afraid that Vincent's statement of spinels not being heat treated no longer holds true; spinels are now heated or oiled to improve the perceived clarity, although this is uncommonly done. This was discovered relatively recently by AGL and is still far less invasive than most ruby treatment. MollyMalone linked AGL's PDF report a few posts above ours. I do agree though that spinels are beautiful and should be appreciated on their own merits, not as a ruby wannabe.

 

[distracts]

I have heard from several gem dealers recently that spinel IS being heat-treated, especially hazy/sleepy spinels to improve clarity. As well, there is synthetic spinel to watch for.