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Opinions Needed - Search for local ideal cut princess (~.75ct)

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Saint0453

Rough_Rock
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Dec 14, 2008
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I have been reading posts for a while now trying to become informed on what to look for when buying a diamond, thanks for all the helpful threads. I have recently started looking locally for a 3/4 ideal cut princess. There do not seem to be many B&M stores in the Cincinnati, OH area that carry AGS0 cut diamonds. I have requested from a few local jewelery stores in an attempt to local an Ideal cut AGS princess but the diamonds they bring in turn out to be GIA.

I am planning on having a custom ring created at a local jeweler and they obtained a .71 princess cut diamond for me to examine. This is a little smaller than I was wanting to go (was looking between .74 - .85 ct). I was trying to determine why the price was significantly lower than "comparable" GIA diamonds that I have seen locally. To me and my girlfriend the diamond seemed brilliant and she really liked, though we have not been able to view and thus compare it to an AGS0 princess cut.

Just today I found a local AGS jewelry store whom states they can obtain AGS0 cut princess stones from one of their distributors. They forwarded me a sheet of some between .71 and .8 ct that are supposed to be idea cut with Color, Clarity, Price, Polish, Symmetry, and Dimension information included. I was going to request a few to view so I can compare them to the .71 GIA diamond. The sheet does not contain the AGS report number so I cannot look up depth/table information prior to requesting them.

Overall I was trying to pull readers opinions on the below diamond to help determine why it would be priced lower (a little over $1,000 lower) than similar GIA diamonds in the area. The local jeweler states that they just purchased the diamond last week and with the current economical situation they were able to obtain a great price on it. Also, would posting any of the AGS diamonds be beneficial with only knowing the above information?

Diamond information:
Date of Issue: June 09, 2004
Square Modified Brilliant

Measurements: 5.10 x 4.91 x 3.59 mm

Carat Weight: 0.71

Color Grade: G

Clarity Grade: VS2

Proportions:
Depth: 73.1 %
Table: 77 %
Girdle: Very Thin to Slightly Thick
Culet: None

Finish:
Polish: Good
Symmetry: Very Good
Fluorescence: None
Clarity Characteristics: Feather


Thanks for helping me out and any information that might be provided.

-Richard
 
What the jeweler stated about getting the diamond cheaper bc of the economic status could be true, diamonds have gone down some in price lately....the table on the diamond you listed is huge tho....def. not in the AGS0 range. Have you looked at diamonds online from some pricescope vendors, they sell AGS0 princess cuts and the price is quite reasonable...
 
yes, very nice rock swingirl posted.....
 
Have to say, it sounds cheap for a reason (not a good one.)

77% table. Very thin at some part of the girdle. Good polish.

Check out some AGS princesses to compare.
 
Date: 12/15/2008 12:11:45 AM
Author: JulieN
Have to say, it sounds cheap for a reason (not a good one.)

77% table. Very thin at some part of the girdle. Good polish.

Check out some AGS princesses to compare.
Click to expand...
Ditto, Jareds carry them if there is one closeby.
 
If you still going to buy from the store, make sure the AGS report is a Diamond Quality Document, which grades cut by performance, and not a Diamond Quality Report, which does not and it seems like this is what the store is trying to palm off to you as an AGS Ideal.
 
Thanks for all of the information and suggestions. I was leaning towards buying locally because I would like see the diamond prior to purchase. I have spoken with a different local jeweler and they have found a few AGS stones. I have pictures of certs for 4 and they are supposed to be obtaining two additional ones for me tomorrow. Their vendor they are going through listed them all as AGS Ideal Diamonds though only one shows a cut grade of AGS0 while two others are AGS1.

All 4 of the reports are "Diamond Quality Documents" though some have *** listed as the Cut Grade even though they were done in 2008. Does AGS not always grade the cut on princess stones? Also, one image I have says "Cut Grade AGS Excellent 1" but when I look up the report number on http://agslab.com/verify_diamond_grading_report.php the online report shows a cut grade of *** (see diamond #1 below).

Of the 4 diamonds below does anyone have suggestions for ones I should request for viewing?

Diamond #1:
Report Type: Diamond Quality™ Document
Shape and Style: Square Modified Brilliant
Measurements: 5.11 x 4.92 x 3.67 mm
Cut Grade: ***
Color Grade: AGS 0 (D)
Clarity Grade: AGS 4 (VS2)
Carat Weight 0.771
Fluorescence: Negligible
Comments:
"I DO #####" has been inscribed on the girdle of this diamond.
Additional clouds and surface graining are not shown.
Polish:
Symmetry:
Table: 70.7%
Crown Angle: 29.4
Crown Height: 10.2%
Girdle: 2.2% to 3.4%
Pavilion Angle: 60.3
Pavilion Depth: 61.6%
Star Length:
Lower Girdle Length:
Total Depth: 74.6%
Culet: Pointed

Diamond #2:
Report Type: Diamond Quality™ Document
Shape and Style: Square Modified Brilliant
Measurements: 4.99 x 4.93 x 3.53 mm
Cut Grade: AGS Ideal 0
Light Performance: 0
Proportion Factors: 0
Finish: 0
Polish: Ideal
Symmetry: Ideal
Color Grade: AGS 1.5 (G)
Clarity Grade: AGS 4 (VS2)
Carat Weight: 0.711
Fluorescence: Negligible
Comments:
"AGSL ######" has been inscribed on the girdle of this diamond.
Table: 64.3%
Crown Angle: 37.2
Crown Height: 12.2%
Girdle: 0.5% to 2.9%
Pavilion Angle: 39.2
Pavilion Depth: 57.6%
Total Depth: 71.6%
Culet: Pointed

Diamond #3:
Report Type: Diamond Quality™ Document
Shape and Style: Rectangle Modified Brilliant
Measurements: 5.21 x 4.99 x 3.56 mm
Cut Grade: ***
Color Grade: AGS 0 (D)
Clarity Grade: AGS 4 (VS2)
Carat Weight 0.731
Fluorescence: Negligible
Comments:
***Because of the many proportion variations in fancy shaped diamonds, you should consult a Certified Gemologist or other qualified gemologist about the proportions of this diamond. The grading of fancy shaped diamonds is under revision.
"I DO ######" has been inscribed on the girdle of this diamond.
Polish:
Symmetry:
Table: 68.5%
Crown Angle: 19.2
Crown Height: 7.2%
Girdle: 1.4% to 2.4%
Pavilion Angle: 58.1
Pavilion Depth: 62.0%
Star Length:
Lower Girdle Length:
Total Depth: 71.4%
Culet: Pointed

Diamond #4:
Report Type: Diamond Quality™ Document
Shape and Style: Square Modified Brilliant
Measurements: 5.20 x 4.99 x 3.61 mm
Cut Grade: AGS Excellent 1
Color Grade: AGS 0.5 (E)
Clarity Grade: AGS 2 (VVS2)
Carat Weight 0.760
Fluorescence: Negligible
Comments:
"AGSL #####" has been inscribed on the girdle of this diamond.
Additional pinpoints are not shown.
Polish: Ideal
Symmetry: Ideal
Table: 70.8%
Crown Angle: 36.1
Crown Height: 9.0%
Girdle: 1.6% to 3.8%
Pavilion Angle: 40.0
Pavilion Depth: 60.1%
Star Length:
Lower Girdle Length:
Total Depth: 72.3%
Culet: Pointed

Once again thank you for any suggestions and information that can be provided on the above diamonds.
 
It's hard to tell without images, but it looks like Diamond #2 is the safest bet. It's the only one with a clear AGS0 cut grade, a good color/clarity combination (VS2 will be virtually guaranteed eye-clean, and G is a good money-saving option for the color-sensitive). It has pretty decent spread for a princess due to its reasonable depth...and the dimensions are pretty close to a 1:1 L:W ratio (perfect square). For me, that diamond is the clear winner (behind the GOG diamond, that is, but it sounds like you're not interested in buying online).
 
Agree, #2 seems to be the best bet.
 
Date: 12/15/2008 10:59:06 PM
Author: jstarfireb
It''s hard to tell without images, but it looks like Diamond #2 is the safest bet. It''s the only one with a clear AGS0 cut grade, a good color/clarity combination (VS2 will be virtually guaranteed eye-clean, and G is a good money-saving option for the color-sensitive). It has pretty decent spread for a princess due to its reasonable depth...and the dimensions are pretty close to a 1:1 L:W ratio (perfect square). For me, that diamond is the clear winner (behind the GOG diamond, that is, but it sounds like you''re not interested in buying online).
Click to expand...
Ditto
 
#3 stone is graded when AGS is reviewing it''s princess cut grading so no cut grade was given.

#4 stone is out, since it has ideal symm and polish, it''s cut grade is lightly due to light performance then, which is only AGS1.

Not sure about why the unknown grade for #1.
 
Thank you everyone for your thoughts on the above 4 diamonds, the information was very helpful. I have obtained the last three certs:

Diamond #5
Report Type: Diamond Quality™ Document
Shape and Style: Square Modified Brilliant
Measurements: 4.99 x 4.89 x 3.62 mm
Cut Grade: AGS Ideal 0
Light Performance: 0
Proportion Factors: 0
Finish: 0
Polish: Ideal
Symmetry: Ideal
Color Grade: AGS 1.5 (G)
Clarity Grade: AGS 3 (VS1)
Carat Weight: 0.772
Fluorescence: Negligible
Comments:
"AGSL #####" has been inscribed on the girdle of this diamond.
Table: 68.7%
Crown Angle: 44.5
Crown Height: 13.9%
Girdle: 3.0% to 3.9%
Pavilion Angle: 38.3
Pavilion Depth: 56.0%
Total Depth: 74.0%
Culet: Pointed

Diamond #6
Report Type: Diamond Quality™ Document
Shape and Style: Square Modified Brilliant
Measurements: 5.08 x 5.01 x 3.60 mm
Cut Grade: ***
Color Grade: AGS 0.5 (E)
Clarity Grade: AGS 2 (VVS2)
Carat Weight 0.761
Fluorescence: Negligible
Comments:
"I DO #####" has been inscribed on the girdle of this diamond.
Polish:
Symmetry:
Table: 72.8%
Crown Angle: 42.7
Crown Height: 11.4%
Girdle: 0.4% to 3.2%
Pavilion Angle: 59.0
Pavilion Depth: 58.3%
Star Length:
Lower Girdle Length:
Total Depth: 71.9%
Culet: Pointed

On Diamond #6, I have a jpg of the Diamond Quality Document from AGS and it list the Cut Grade as "AGS Excellent 1". On the right side of the image under "Deductions" it shows everything as 0 except for Brightness = 0.4239. What does the brightness reference, the amount of light reflection?

Then under Net Lowering it shows Girdle 1, Culet 0, Polish 1, Symmetry 1. Largest = 1.


Diamond #7
Report Type: Diamond Quality™ Document
Shape and Style: Square Modified Brilliant
Measurements: 4.95 x 4.86 x 3.53 mm
Cut Grade: AGS Excellent 1
Color Grade: AGS 1.0 (F)
Clarity Grade: AGS 3 (VS1)
Carat Weight 0.710
Fluorescence: Negligible
Comments:
"I DO #####" has been inscribed on the girdle of this diamond.
Polish:
Symmetry:
Table: 69.7%
Crown Angle: 47.1
Crown Height: 12.6%
Girdle: 1.7% to 2.3%
Pavilion Angle: 39.4
Pavilion Depth: 58.1%
Star Length:
Lower Girdle Length:
Total Depth: 72.7%
Culet: Pointed

Deductions everything is 0 except Dispersion = .0830.
Net Lowering the only 1 is Symmetry.


Thanks Stone-cold11, I took a look at the report for Diamond #4 again. I did not notice the deduction section previously. It shows Brightness .5573, Contrast .2429, Dispersion .2730, Leakage .0569, SUM = 1.1301.

Stone-cold11, in reference to Diamond #1 the deduction section shows:
Brightness .0418, Contrast .2363, Dispersion 0, Leakage 0, Durability 1. SUM = 1.2781. Net Lowering section = 0.

Comparing the measurements of #2 (4.99 x 4.93 x 3.53 mm) and #5 above (4.99 x 4.89 x 3.62 mm) they seem almost the same (to me) though they differ by .061 ct, is this just because of the deeper depth of #5?

Again, thank you everyone for your help in reviewing these diamonds and answering my questions, I am still trying to get all the information put together just coming into the diamond research field.
 
Weird for #1. Durability has a score, do not know what to make of that. Some real expert will have to comment on that.

#5 looks good too. #6 I would avoid, #7 a maybe if price is a consideration.

For princess cut, because there are 2 pavilion angles and several ''chevron'' facets in between, the weight difference can be hidden there even if all the major dimensions are the same.
 
On AGS website I found that "durability" references the stones "Resistance to chipping or breaking." On this site I found a more in depth explanation "The cut grade is reduced for girdles rated extremely thin and very thin. Diamonds with crown angles less than 30 degrees are also more susceptible to damage." So it does not sound like #1 would be to good if it is less durable, even with a score of 1.

Would it be beneficial/appropriate to list the price of Diamonds 5,2,7 and maybe 1? To help judge if they are priced appropriately? I did a price comparison search using the "Multi-Vendor Diamond Price Comparison" on PS and most AGS in the .7 to .8 range seemed to be between ~$2000 - $3000 but I could not find any with close Table/depth and matching color/clarity to the ones I posted above.
 
Stone 1 had a durability deduction for the low crown angle.

You should buy insurance anyway.

There''s way too many variables for us to choose something based on the certs. You have to have 2 or 3 called in, at least. Different facet patterns on princesses can lead to very different looks.
 
Date: 12/16/2008 6:03:37 PM
Author: JulieN
Stone 1 had a durability deduction for the low crown angle.

You should buy insurance anyway.

There''s way too many variables for us to choose something based on the certs. You have to have 2 or 3 called in, at least. Different facet patterns on princesses can lead to very different looks.
Click to expand...
Agreed.
 
Thanks again, I am going to request the store obtain diamonds #1, 2, 5, and 7 from their distributor for viewing and also ask if they do any type of Ideal-scope analysis on loose diamonds. I will udpate with the results.
 
Try asking for ASET. More useful for fancy cut. Since AGS develop ASET, I would think they would have it in the shop.
 
The jeweler just got back to me and said the four diamonds should be in on Friday. They do not have a tabletop ASET machine because of the expense of the machine and the use of it.

They offered to order the handheld ASET for our use. They state the handheld ASET is "used for mounted and loose stones. It is not as consistent as the desktop but if you are interested in that, I do not mind ordering one and having it overnighted here for you to view."

I have attached the image of the handheld ASET the store sent in their e-mail.

How useful is this and what will I need to research in order to get the most use out of it?

Thank you for all your help.

ASEThandheld.JPG
 
Handheld ASET is great.

Of course, the desktop one is waaay cool and beautiful.

But handheld will do fine.

Look at Infinity ASETs, WF ASETs (ACA AND ES) and GOG ASETs for practice. We don't want you walking in there feeling confused!

For example, here is an educational ASET: http://www.whiteflash.com/princess/Princess-cut-diamond-912110.htm#
 
Date: 12/17/2008 4:06:01 PM
Author: JulieN

For example, here is an educational ASET: http://www.whiteflash.com/princess/Princess-cut-diamond-912110.htm#
Click to expand...

So reviewing the ASET for this diamond, to me it looks like there is a large amount of black in the left/top/right center. Also, red doesn''t seem to be the most prominent color overall.

Would something like the following be a more desirable ASET image for a princess cut?




Would the lack of blue in this ASET not be as good because blue indicates "contrast" though it has been graded AGS0.

=268&src=asetscope:2o8h065d]http://www.craftedbyinfinity.com/index.php?pid=63〈=eng&sid[]=268&src=asetscope

Lastly, comparing these two AGS Ideas from GOG:
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/3421/
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/3748/

In the second one seems to have more of a circular look to it, does this indicate anything?

Thanks for your help, I definitely want to be prepared for this Friday.
 
All the Infinity princesses look amazing under ASET. Really top notch. Unfortunately, I can''t open the links that you posted.

Infinity princesses have that very strong X thing going on. The flower pattern (what you called a circle?) is typical of the Whiteflash ACA. To the consumer, just pick whichever one you like better.

You will get to see these in person, so try not to get too hung up on ASET...what I mean is, do not look for the perfect ASET when the perfect stone for you might be right in front of you.
 
Thanks for everyones advice. I looked at 3 of the 4 stones (one was delayed on a plane because of snow storms). The diamonds I viewed were #7, 5, and 1.

To be honest, I could hardly tell a size or performance difference between them. Mixing them up and taking the three by the front window (incoming sunlight) the two I picked that seemed to produce the most fire and brilliance were #5 and #7 (leaning slightly towards #7).

I think I will have them return number #1 and wait for number 2 to arrive for a re-evaluation hopefully by tomorrow.

The prices on the diamonds are as follows:
#5 - $3,222
#2 - $2,236
#7 - $2,928
#1 - $3,311 (I am guess it is so high because of the D color?)

I would like opinions on the price of the above diamonds. Do they seem in the ballpark of comparable diamonds?

Thank you everyone.
 
Update, it looks like diamond #2 that is missing is either misplaced by FedEx or someone took it because it cannot be found. The search will continue but it does not look promising.

AGS was contacted concerning the durability rating = 1 for diamond #1. It got a 1 in durability because the girdle is thin.

I was hoping to see #2 since it is also AGS0 and $700-1000 less than the other two I had in mind. Any comments on the pricing of the 4 diamonds mentioned above? Thanks.
 
Date: 12/23/2008 10:14:51 AM
Author: Saint0453
Update, it looks like diamond #2 that is missing is either misplaced by FedEx or someone took it because it cannot be found. The search will continue but it does not look promising.

AGS was contacted concerning the durability rating = 1 for diamond #1. It got a 1 in durability because the girdle is thin.

I was hoping to see #2 since it is also AGS0 and $700-1000 less than the other two I had in mind. Any comments on the pricing of the 4 diamonds mentioned above? Thanks.
Click to expand...

Probably not consider #1.

Between #5 and #7, depends on your budget and what your eyes tells you. The price looks good for a B&M.
 
Date: 12/22/2008 11:13:59 AM
Author: Saint0453
Thanks for everyones advice. I looked at 3 of the 4 stones (one was delayed on a plane because of snow storms). The diamonds I viewed were #7, 5, and 1.

To be honest, I could hardly tell a size or performance difference between them. Mixing them up and taking the three by the front window (incoming sunlight) the two I picked that seemed to produce the most fire and brilliance were #5 and #7 (leaning slightly towards #7).

I think I will have them return number #1 and wait for number 2 to arrive for a re-evaluation hopefully by tomorrow.

The prices on the diamonds are as follows:
#5 - $3,222
#2 - $2,236
#7 - $2,928
#1 - $3,311 (I am guess it is so high because of the D color?)

I would like opinions on the price of the above diamonds. Do they seem in the ballpark of comparable diamonds?

Thank you everyone.
Click to expand...
You can compare prices of similar using the Pricescope your Diamond search tool above, enter your specs and that should give you an idea.
 
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