Opinions on a 2ct round diamond

[Dodoobro]

Hi! My boyfriend and I have been looking for a >2ct natural round diamond, 3EX, G, VS1, none fluorescence, under CAD$40,000. Accounting for the 13% Ontario tax and conversion, we are hoping for something ~USD$35500 before tax.

We impulsively put down a $10,000 deposit for this 2.00ct G VVS2 diamond, without doing our homework.
GIA cert - https://d3at7kzws0mw3g.cloudfront.net/MaskLabreportno/D02F012A-6008-48A0-A68B-56DC9FB87151.jpg
Video - https://d3at7kzws0mw3g.cloudfront.net/video/Vision360.html?d=230493-28

Now that I came home and did my research, I know how this stone is not a good buy due to its shallow crown angle (33%), steep pavillion angle (41.6%), big 60% table, and a HCA score of 4.2. When I talked to the seller about my concerns and inquired about other diamonds that I found online, she said the company already purchased the diamond we put a deposit in, assured me of its excellent quality, and tried to convince me to stick to it by dropping the price from CAD$36800 to CAD$34900 (which is a redflag to me).

So my questions are:
1. Is it unreasonable to ask my seller to buy in a different diamond, after putting down a deposit for one? In this industry, are buyers expected to stick to our choice if we put down a deposit for a diamond? They are a diamond wholesale company that sells diamonds to chain retailers, so I wouldn't anticipate a difficulty for them to sell the one that was already bought in for me.
2. If the seller refused to switch a diamond for me, would the diamond I showed be an acceptable choice?
3. Do you have some recommendations of diamonds that meet my requirements and budget? I may be ok with eye clean VS2 if everything else is excellent.

Thank you in advance for your insights!

 

[lovedogs]

Unfortunately this is not a well cut diamond. I would try to switch to a different stone or get your money back. I would be adamant that you don't want this stone.

 

[Kim N]

I agree with lovedogs and would insist on getting your money back. Was there a contract stating the deposit was nonrefundable?

This is what I would recommend, a super ideal cut diamond with superior light performance proven with ASET and Ideal-Scope images.

Diamond | 2.02 ct F VS1 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond GIA Certified | 4612868

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 2.02 carat F color VS1 clarity loose diamond is graded by the Gemological Institute of America (GIA). | 4612868

www.whiteflash.com

 

[lovedogs]

Here is an example of an ideal cut stone in your budget and specs (eye clean VS2). Please don't settle for something inferior.

Diamond | 1.937 ct E VS2 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4544650

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 1.937 carat E color VS2 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4544650

www.whiteflash.com

 

[Dodoobro]

I agree with lovedogs and would insist on getting your money back. Was there a contract stating the deposit was nonrefundable?

This is what I would recommend, a super ideal cut diamond with superior light performance proven with ASET and Ideal-Scope images.

Diamond | 2.02 ct F VS1 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond GIA Certified | 4612868

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 2.02 carat F color VS1 clarity loose diamond is graded by the Gemological Institute of America (GIA). | 4612868

www.whiteflash.com

Hi Kim, this is a beautiful diamond! My bad, but our budget is ~$26000 USD, not 35!

I am also curious if the inclusions in this diamond, with additional clouds not shown, and feathers near the girdle, could compromise the transparency and strength of the diamond? Is it necessary to avoid these features, when we are looking at stones VS1 and above?

 

[Kim N]

Hi Kim, this is a beautiful diamond! My bad, but our budget is ~$26000 USD, not 35!

I am also curious if the inclusions in this diamond, with additional clouds not shown, and feathers near the girdle, could compromise the transparency and strength of the diamond? Is it necessary to avoid these features, when we are looking at stones VS1 and above?

I would not be concerned at all about inclusions in a VS1, nor even in the VS2 lovedogs posted. With a ~$26,000 USD budget, i highly recommend you consider that diamond.

 

[Dodoobro]

Here is an example of an ideal cut stone in your budget and specs (eye clean VS2). Please don't settle for something inferior.

Diamond | 1.937 ct E VS2 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4544650

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 1.937 carat E color VS2 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4544650

www.whiteflash.com

Thank you for the recommendation! 2 carat and above is more of a non-negotiable for us

I was also wondering, since my deposit is "locked-in", and my preference would be to switch a diamond with my seller, rather than to fight for a refund. Are these ACA diamonds exclusively sold by WF directly to consumers? Or would my seller be able to buy in a ACA diamond for me?

 

[Kim N]

ACAs are Whiteflash's in-house diamonds sold exclusively by them to consumers.

Are you open to H color? Your vendor may be able to obtain this stone if you can't buy directly from James Allen.

2.05 Carat round diamond

This 2.05 carat round diamond H color vvs1 clarity has Excellent proportions and a diamond grading report from GIA

www.jamesallen.com

 

[Bz_Sa]

Thank you for the recommendation! 2 carat and above is more of a non-negotiable for us

I was also wondering, since my deposit is "locked-in", and my preference would be to switch a diamond with my seller, rather than to fight for a refund. Are these ACA diamonds exclusively sold by WF directly to consumers? Or would my seller be able to buy in a ACA diamond for me?

Hi,

Agree with friends.

I have property recommendations for Round Brilliant, not a specific diamond or vendor; as it seems you may not be able to get back the money and buy a diamond yourself.

Crown angle: 34-35
Pavillion angle: 40.7-40.8
table: 55-57% (56 the best)
lower girdle length: 76-78%
Clarity: VS+
Color: H+
Certificate: AGS/GIA
Cut: AGS 000 / GIA 3Ex


a certified diamond with the above range of quality is an amazing choice, and You can be completely sure about the light performance and beauty of it.

For sure white flash "A Cut Above" is a nice choice if you can manage one, if not go for any diamonds with the above qualities is safe.

Best of Luck for both of you

 

[Dodoobro]

ACAs are Whiteflash's in-house diamonds sold exclusively by them to consumers.

Are you open to H color? Your vendor may be able to obtain this stone if you can't buy directly from James Allen.

2.05 Carat round diamond

This 2.05 carat round diamond H color vvs1 clarity has Excellent proportions and a diamond grading report from GIA

www.jamesallen.com

This is a great option! I will bring the cert to my seller and see if they could obtain it.

Although my preference is to sacrifice clarity and maintain a G color. A 2ct G VS would be my ideal!

 

[Dodoobro]

Hi,

Agree with friends.

I have property recommendations for Round Brilliant, not a specific diamond or vendor; as it seems you may not be able to get back the money and buy a diamond yourself.

Crown angle: 34-35
Pavillion angle: 40.7-40.8
table: 55-57% (56 the best)
lower girdle length: 76-78%
Clarity: VS+
Color: H+
Certificate: AGS/GIA
Cut: AGS 000 / GIA 3Ex


a certified diamond with the above range of quality is an amazing choice, and You can be completely sure about the light performance and beauty of it.

For sure white flash "A Cut Above" is a nice choice if you can manage one, if not go for any diamonds with the above qualities is safe.

Best of Luck for both of you

Thank you! I will bring these numbers to my seller and see if they can locate a stone that meets the recommendations! Although based on the emails, they seem to be unwilling to source another diamond for us, and try to convince us to accept the one they ordered in, or switch for one they have in house.

 

[Dodoobro]

The seller sent me this other stone. May I get some opinions on it? From the picture, do you see leakage at the centre of the stone?

 

[lovedogs]

The seller sent me this other stone. May I get some opinions on it? From the picture, do you see leakage at the centre of the stone?

Nope, this is another poorly cut stone. I would very strongly suggest trying to get your money back and buying online from a better vendor

 

[Kim N]

Nope, this is another poorly cut stone. I would very strongly suggest trying to get your money back and buying online from a better vendor

I agree completely. This stone might be even worse than the first one.

 

[Dodoobro]

Thank you @Kim N and @lovedogs for the quick feedback!
I'm losing trust in this seller, will see if I can get my money back and look somewhere else.
Any recommendations for vendors in the Greater Toronto Area? I was worried that I'm not experienced enough to shop for diamonds online without seeing them in person.

 

[Kim N]

Thank you @Kim N and @lovedogs for the quick feedback!
I'm losing trust in this seller, will see if I can get my money back and look somewhere else.
Any recommendations for vendors in the Greater Toronto Area? I was worried that I'm not experienced enough to shop for diamonds online without seeing them in person.

I don't have a recommendation for a Toronto jeweler, but many of us started off wary of online diamond shopping and eventually learned that you can find significantly better cut diamonds for better prices online. There are many tools (HCA, ASET or Ideal-Scope images, H&A images) that can help you feel more confident in an online purchase. And if you buy from a vendor with a great return policy for Canadian shoppers (maybe James Allen/Blue Nile), there's very little risk to you.

 

[Kim N]

I found a strong contender for you on James Allen if you choose to go that route. I won't post the link for now since there are lurkers who might buy the diamond out from under you.

 

[Dodoobro]

I found a strong contender for you on James Allen if you choose to go that route. I won't post the link for now since there are lurkers who might buy the diamond out from under you.

Thank you so much Kim! Awaiting to meet the seller next week, as she insisted that I see the “beautiful diamond” that was bought in for me I will bring up the refund when we meet in person!
Meanwhile, does the forum has a direct message function, so you can send the link to me directly?

 

[Dodoobro]

I don't have a recommendation for a Toronto jeweler, but many of us started off wary of online diamond shopping and eventually learned that you can find significantly better cut diamonds for better prices online. There are many tools (HCA, ASET or Ideal-Scope images, H&A images) that can help you feel more confident in an online purchase. And if you buy from a vendor with a great return policy for Canadian shoppers (maybe James Allen/Blue Nile), there's very little risk to you.

I agree, and the Pscopers are so supportive, I actually feel way more comfortable buying online now. The only concern would be the loss of import tax and whatnot if I need to return it, since I’m based in Canada.

 

[tyty333]

Thank you so much Kim! Awaiting to meet the seller next week, as she insisted that I see the “beautiful diamond” that was bought in for me I will bring up the refund when we meet in person!
Meanwhile, does the forum has a direct message function, so you can send the link to me directly?

Remember, pretty much all stones are going to look sparkly under jeweler lights whether they are well-cut or not. I suggest
that you give the jeweler the numbers you're trying to stay in.

crown - 34-35 degrees
pavilion - 40.6-41 degrees
table - smaller than 58%
depth - lower than 62.3%

lower crown goes with higher pavilion (34 with 41) and vice versa (35 - 40.6). Sweet spot would be 34.5 crown with 40.8 pavilion.

There can be pretty stones outside of these numbers but a beginner...its just easier to stick with these numbers. Also, do they
have any kind of Hearts and Arrow viewer? Aset image viewer to check for leakage?

If you can take up close pictures and post them here we can provide feedback (pics and report) but I think you should provide
your jeweler with a little more guidance as to what you're looking for.

 

[Dodoobro]

Remember, pretty much all stones are going to look sparkly under jeweler lights whether they are well-cut or not. I suggest
that you give the jeweler the numbers you're trying to stay in.

crown - 34-35 degrees
pavilion - 40.6-41 degrees
table - smaller than 58%
depth - lower than 62.3%

lower crown goes with higher pavilion (34 with 41) and vice versa (35 - 40.6). Sweet spot would be 34.5 crown with 40.8 pavilion.

There can be pretty stones outside of these numbers but a beginner...its just easier to stick with these numbers. Also, do they
have any kind of Hearts and Arrow viewer? Aset image viewer to check for leakage?

If you can take up close pictures and post them here we can provide feedback (pics and report) but I think you should provide
your jeweler with a little more guidance as to what you're looking for.

Thank you, I appreciate this!

 

[lovedogs]

Please hold your ground and get a refund. This jeweler is charging you a lot of money for low quality stones

 

[Dodoobro]

Hi everyone, I found this one that scores HCA 1.7, although with a bigger crown angle of 36. It's report date is also very meaningful for us <3

Could it be a good buy? With the feathers on the girdle, should I worry about chipping the diamond during mounting/daily wear?

If PSers approve, I will present it to my jeweler and ask them to acquire this stone for me. If they refuse, I will be firm to request a refund. Wish me luck!

 

[lovedogs]

Hi everyone, I found this one that scores HCA 1.7, although with a bigger crown angle of 36. It's report date is also very meaningful for us <3

Could it be a good buy? With the feathers on the girdle, should I worry about chipping the diamond during mounting/daily wear?

If PSers approve, I will present it to my jeweler and ask them to acquire this stone for me. If they refuse, I will be firm to request a refund. Wish me luck!

Do you have photos or video?

 

[Dodoobro]

Do you have photos or video?

 

[Kim N]

Hi everyone, I found this one that scores HCA 1.7, although with a bigger crown angle of 36. It's report date is also very meaningful for us <3

Could it be a good buy? With the feathers on the girdle, should I worry about chipping the diamond during mounting/daily wear?

If PSers approve, I will present it to my jeweler and ask them to acquire this stone for me. If they refuse, I will be firm to request a refund. Wish me luck!

This stone looks very promising and so much better than the ones you were offered. I wouldn't be too concerned with feathers in a VS1.

 

[Dodoobro]

This stone looks very promising and so much better than the ones you were offered. I wouldn't be too concerned with feathers in a VS1.

Kim approved, I’m getting excited! Contacting the jewler now

 

[Kim N]

Kim approved, I’m getting excited! Contacting the jewler now

Fingers crossed for you!

Would you be interested in this one, listed under $25K USD?

 

[lovedogs]

Much nicer than the others you were offered!!!

 

[Dodoobro]

Fingers crossed for you!

Would you be interested in this one, listed under $25K USD?

Totally interested! What are your thoughts on faint fluorescence, how does it affect performance of a diamond? And with the video available, do you think this diamond is eye clean with crystals at the centre?