Opinions on ruby options

[Miss Confused]

Hi all,

Helping a friend hunt down a ruby for an engagement ring and would love your thoughts. Also if you have other options please throw them my way, so far we have reached out to Gemfix and the natural ruby company ( havent used but saw a couple of good threads but really great to get your feedback). Who else would be good for rubies?

As always with rubies color is really the top focus here - looking for something with no purple modifiers, intense color aka no pink, essentially a classic vivid pure red. Budget for the stone is ideally under 15k but can go over if needed, heat is fine, she doesnt like elongated shapes nor sharp corners so preference is for cushion, roval or round, as eye clean as possible, decent light return / cut, and size wise 6,2+mm (1,2-2ct range is usually where we land). Stone will be set in yellow gold, no halo so can keep the sides relatively open and some diamonds on the shank


Some options we received:

• R11303 - 1.31 carat, cushion cut
• R12750 - 1.42 carat, cushion cut - asking for more pictures
• R12856 - 1.57 carats, cushion cut
• R12858 - 1.53 carats, cushion cut
• R12755 - 1.28 carats, cushion cut
• R12749 - 1.20 carats, cushion cut - asking for more pictures
• R12744 - 1.20 carats, cushion cut
• R13433 - 1.60 carats, round cut
• S5477 - 1.23 carats, round cut
• R13302 - 1.24 carats, round cut
• R12673 - 1.31 carats, round cut

 

[marymm]

If you haven't already, I suggest reaching out to Inken at Enhoerning Jewelry to see if she has any rubies in inventory that fit your parameters -- they are CS specialists and most of their stones have GIA or AGL Gem Lab reports

Personally I am not a fan of The Natural Ruby Company -- they basically self-cert their own stones which is unreliable (and self-serving) -- IMO their prices are quite high and out of range for what they are selling, and their videos/photos aren't very good -- YMMV

 

[Avondale]

You'll eventually read it somewhere here, so I'll just say it straight up - don't pay ruby prices for garnet looks. That's not to say garnets aren't beautiful, or that you shouldn't buy a ruby that looks like a garnet, just that the majority of these rubies are not priced adequately for their colour.

This is what a fine red ruby colour looks like:

From Landscape (https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/mozambique-ruby.266636/#post-4978048)

Again from Landscape (https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/pigeon-blood-ruby-from-vietnam.275630/)

From Autumn in New England (https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/mans-ring.272483/#post-5108630)

The selection you currently have from TNRC doesn't compare. Again, that isn't to say that your friend shouldn't buy a stone that looks like these, just not at this price.

To be fully honest, looking at these rubies, the majority of them seem to me to be a bit orangish. I wouldn't call them pure red. This is usually a dangerous debate, as people's perception of what is pinkish and what is orangish is... let's say, very personally subjective. I've seen the same stone be called both too orange and too pink by different people. So, beware of "pure red", as this might just not objectively exist, especially on the internet and through a variety of screens and displays.

While we're on the subject of colour, be very wary of the term "pigeon blood" - it's used way too loosely and mainly for the purpose of inflating prices. Shop with your eyes and know the fair price for the colour you're after.

Last but not least, treatment. All of these stones (but one, iirc) are described as heated. But they're not all heated equally. Nowadays the majority of rubies are heated in the presence of borax. What the borax does as it melts is it seeps into the fractures of the ruby, dissolves them and effectively heals them. Of course, this process leaves residues - tiny glass deposits trapped in the healed fractures inside the stones. The level of residues - minor, moderate and significant - has an impact on value.

Stones that are heat only are of higher value (and also a fair bit rarer) than stones that are heated with residues, just as stones with minor residues are more expensive than ones with moderate residues. The problem is, TNRC wants to sell you all stones as heat only, at the price of heat only.

Let's look at the first ruby on your list, the 1,31ct round - the GRS certificate states the treatment as H(a). That's heated with minor residues. On the other hand, another of the round rubies, the 1,60ct one, is H - meaning heat only. The price per carat of the first one is actually higher than the second one, which, having taken into consideration their photos and videos as well, defies logic, in my eyes.

A large number of the rubies on your list only have lab reports from C.Dunaigre who specifically do not indicate the level of residues on their reports. The same applies to the in house reports of TNRC. So you have no way of knowing if it's heat only, minor, moderate residues and so on. And you don't know what you're paying for. While the vendor may wish to convince you that it's all the same and whatever, it's not, and you deserve to not get scammed.

 

[starrylight]

Throwing out:
https://www.etsy.com/listing/154853...m=fea3b2af&ref=shop_home_active_5&pro=1&frs=1
As an option. I would ask about return policies and ask for pictures in different kinds of light.

 

[ItsMainelyYou]

Some heated options, half price.

1.02carat Natural Unheated Mozambique Ruby Gemstone Vivid to Pigeon Red Cushion Cut Brilliant Luster Exquisite Stone Unheated Loose Stone - Etsy

This Gemstones item by EmbellishedFineGems has 25 favorites from Etsy shoppers. Ships from Sri Lanka. Listed on Mar 8, 2024

www.etsy.com

This item is unavailable - Etsy

Find the perfect handmade gift, vintage & on-trend clothes, unique jewelry, and more… lots more.

www.etsy.com

This item is unavailable - Etsy

Find the perfect handmade gift, vintage & on-trend clothes, unique jewelry, and more… lots more.

www.etsy.com

 

[Miss Confused]

If you haven't already, I suggest reaching out to Inken at Enhoerning Jewelry to see if she has any rubies in inventory that fit your parameters -- they are CS specialists and most of their stones have GIA or AGL Gem Lab reports

Personally I am not a fan of The Natural Ruby Company -- they basically self-cert their own stones which is unreliable (and self-serving) -- IMO their prices are quite high and out of range for what they are selling, and their videos/photos aren't very good -- YMMV

Thank you marymm, will reach out to Inken and thank you for your feedback on the natural ruby company - I was going to insist on proper certs anyway but very good points

 

[Miss Confused]

You'll eventually read it somewhere here, so I'll just say it straight up - don't pay ruby prices for garnet looks. That's not to say garnets aren't beautiful, or that you shouldn't buy a ruby that looks like a garnet, just that the majority of these rubies are not priced adequately for their colour.

This is what a fine red ruby colour looks like:

From Landscape (https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/mozambique-ruby.266636/#post-4978048)

Again from Landscape (https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/pigeon-blood-ruby-from-vietnam.275630/)

From Autumn in New England (https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/mans-ring.272483/#post-5108630)

The selection you currently have from TNRC doesn't compare. Again, that isn't to say that your friend shouldn't buy a stone that looks like these, just not at this price.

To be fully honest, looking at these rubies, the majority of them seem to me to be a bit orangish. I wouldn't call them pure red. This is usually a dangerous debate, as people's perception of what is pinkish and what is orangish is... let's say, very personally subjective. I've seen the same stone be called both too orange and too pink by different people. So, beware of "pure red", as this might just not objectively exist, especially on the internet and through a variety of screens and displays.

While we're on the subject of colour, be very wary of the term "pigeon blood" - it's used way too loosely and mainly for the purpose of inflating prices. Shop with your eyes and know the fair price for the colour you're after.

Last but not least, treatment. All of these stones (but one, iirc) are described as heated. But they're not all heated equally. Nowadays the majority of rubies are heated in the presence of borax. What the borax does as it melts is it seeps into the fractures of the ruby, dissolves them and effectively heals them. Of course, this process leaves residues - tiny glass deposits trapped in the healed fractures inside the stones. The level of residues - minor, moderate and significant - has an impact on value.

Stones that are heat only are of higher value (and also a fair bit rarer) than stones that are heated with residues, just as stones with minor residues are more expensive than ones with moderate residues. The problem is, TNRC wants to sell you all stones as heat only, at the price of heat only.

Let's look at the first ruby on your list, the 1,31ct round - the GRS certificate states the treatment as H(a). That's heated with minor residues. On the other hand, another of the round rubies, the 1,60ct one, is H - meaning heat only. The price per carat of the first one is actually higher than the second one, which, having taken into consideration their photos and videos as well, defies logic, in my eyes.

A large number of the rubies on your list only have lab reports from C.Dunaigre who specifically do not indicate the level of residues on their reports. The same applies to the in house reports of TNRC. So you have no way of knowing if it's heat only, minor, moderate residues and so on. And you don't know what you're paying for. While the vendor may wish to convince you that it's all the same and whatever, it's not, and you deserve to not get scammed.

Your post is brilliant Avondale! You perfectly worded the point I have been hitting my head on constantly - the future fiance basically wants something that looks like a garnet. I have shown her both in person and in photos much better color's but she always goes for the dark red's (too dark in my opinion but it is her preference) and she gasp doesnt like silk, she wants an as clear a stone as possible. Ive explained several times that what she is asking for wont give that glow (unless we find a unicorn with F and minute silk that is barely eye visible) and will black out in some lights.

In regards to color the ones listed are actually what she says she wants - she is completely against any pinkish or purplish stones but is ok with a bit of an orange modifier. Honestly what others call "pure red" is not important to them and I've already made clear to ignore any calls of pigeon blood and to focus on the actual color that they see. Her preference leans more towards vermillion to be honest but she views that as pure pillbox red

Regarding the treatments - was always planning to ensure we got a proper cert done and heat only with no additives, had not realized though that they could claim Heat Only when its with residues

 

[Miss Confused]

Throwing out:
https://www.etsy.com/listing/1548535707/antique-victorian-1-carat-round?click_key=9415d4738db8daa8bdbb088e41523289348b19a8:1548535707&click_sum=fea3b2af&ref=shop_home_active_5&pro=1&frs=1
As an option. I would ask about return policies and ask for pictures in different kinds of light.

Afraid this is a perfect example of the style of ruby that the future fiance doesnt like - she will think its "pink" and too included (ignoring the fact that rubies are typically included hahaha)

 

[Miss Confused]

Some heated options, half price.

1.02carat Natural Unheated Mozambique Ruby Gemstone Vivid to Pigeon Red Cushion Cut Brilliant Luster Exquisite Stone Unheated Loose Stone - Etsy

This Gemstones item by EmbellishedFineGems has 25 favorites from Etsy shoppers. Ships from Sri Lanka. Listed on Mar 8, 2024

www.etsy.com

This item is unavailable - Etsy

Find the perfect handmade gift, vintage & on-trend clothes, unique jewelry, and more… lots more.

www.etsy.com

This item is unavailable - Etsy

Find the perfect handmade gift, vintage & on-trend clothes, unique jewelry, and more… lots more.

www.etsy.com

Personally love the first one, will share with my friend

 

[Avondale]

the future fiance basically wants something that looks like a garnet

There are two things I can say to this.

1. It is fortunate for her that what she desires isn't the same as what most other people desire. With that budget, a decently sized and unheated stone is definitely a possibility. Or, if going the heated route, a larger stone. Besides, a ruby from Mozambique or Madagascar has better chances of being heat only, unlike Burmese rubies where practically all of the material is flux healed.

2. I understand the allure as I am the same with that one specific blue sapphire that makes my heart flutter. It's definitely too dark for most people's tastes. It definitely blacks out in low light. I definitely do not give a damn and still think it's the prettiest thing in the world. So, relax - if this is what she wants and she's sure, even after seeing the other options, she'll probably love her ruby for all eternity regardless if it blacks out.

 

[MakingTheGrade]

I’m my experience 99% of rubies lean a little bit pink. If she likes red that’s more “blood” red that usually means subtle bluish (not enough to be a modifier but enough to give it that cooler red vs pinkish red) that’s going to be very expensive and hard to find in a ruby. Even in lab rubies which are created in theory to be ideal, they still tend to be a little pinkish to me.

Are we locked into a ruby? What about fine red spinel?

1.59 ct Burmese Red Spinel

Burmese Red Spinel

www.finewatergems.com

 

[ItsMainelyYou]

Your post is brilliant Avondale! You perfectly worded the point I have been hitting my head on constantly - the future fiance basically wants something that looks like a garnet. I have shown her both in person and in photos much better color's but she always goes for the dark red's (too dark in my opinion but it is her preference) and she gasp doesnt like silk, she wants an as clear a stone as possible. Ive explained several times that what she is asking for wont give that glow (unless we find a unicorn with F and minute silk that is barely eye visible) and will black out in some lights.

In regards to color the ones listed are actually what she says she wants - she is completely against any pinkish or purplish stones but is ok with a bit of an orange modifier. Honestly what others call "pure red" is not important to them and I've already made clear to ignore any calls of pigeon blood and to focus on the actual color that they see. Her preference leans more towards vermillion to be honest but she views that as pure pillbox red

Regarding the treatments - was always planning to ensure we got a proper cert done and heat only with no additives, had not realized though that they could claim Heat Only when its with residues

I was going to say, she wants a spinel. You will be able to find a beautiful crystalline dark red.

GIA Certified Unique Vivid Red Burmese Spinel and Ring in 18K - Etsy

This Wedding & Engagement item by LARIONKANTOR has 14 favorites from Etsy shoppers. Ships from Israel. Listed on Jul 27, 2023

www.etsy.com

Wonderful 100% Natural Burma Earth Mine Vivid Red Spinel3.5ct - Etsy

This Gemstones item by LARIONKANTOR has 12 favorites from Etsy shoppers. Ships from Israel. Listed on Aug 7, 2023

www.etsy.com

 

[ItsMainelyYou]

i don't know if she'd be interested in spinel, but it does tick all the boxes. I always get excited because it's my personal favorite, so sorry for the link dump

This item is unavailable - Etsy

Find the perfect handmade gift, vintage & on-trend clothes, unique jewelry, and more… lots more.

www.etsy.com

Natural Pigeon Red Spinel Cushion 1.44 Carat, Spinel Art, Unique Gem, Cushion Gem, Exotic Red Spinel, Rare Gemstone - Etsy

This Gemstones item by GEMYOR has 44 favorites from Etsy shoppers. Ships from New York, NY. Listed on May 23, 2024

www.etsy.com

Etsy has a lot of options in this color way.
Instagram will have a lot of vendors that can find specific color

https://www.instagram.com/preciouslegem/

 

[MakingTheGrade]

For reference, I got a red spinel ring in 2017 that was preloved that I wear pretty often and has held up fantastically over the years and I think is close to the red you’re looking for, but in the wrong shape lol. But just an example of what the color can be like in a ring.

New to me red spinel three stone ring

So I rewarded my spring cleaning by buying this ring from DT. I've always loved the look of clean lines and have been wanting something bigger for a statement piece sort of ring. All my rings this far have had smaller stones because I generally prioritize color over all else and all the best...

www.pricescope.com

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

For reference, I got a red spinel ring in 2017 that was preloved that I wear pretty often and has held up fantastically over the years and I think is close to the red you’re looking for, but in the wrong shape lol. But just an example of what the color can be like in a ring.

New to me red spinel three stone ring

So I rewarded my spring cleaning by buying this ring from DT. I've always loved the look of clean lines and have been wanting something bigger for a statement piece sort of ring. All my rings this far have had smaller stones because I generally prioritize color over all else and all the best...

www.pricescope.com

That is SUCH A LOVELY RING!!!!!! haha sorry for shouting! It deserves more than a normal comment though!

It’s so very pretty!!!!!

 

[MakingTheGrade]

That is SUCH A LOVELY RING!!!!!! haha sorry for shouting! It deserves more than a normal comment though!

It’s so very pretty!!!!!

Thanks! I actually sold my more smaller more vivid red spinels that were more “pure” red since I found I really do prefer darker reds , go figure. Same for my taste in greens though the tsav standard is on the darker side which is sad for my wallet lol.

 

[T L]

Your friend seems to like dark orangy reds, by the look of your selections. I’ve seen some spessartite garnets and spinels those colors, which may be viable, more affordable options