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Over zealous purchase?? Help (assurance!) Required!!

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Psdxb1984

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 12, 2021
Messages
6
Hi everyone, firstly thank you for this great forum. It is very helpful for novices like me, although I only wish I had checked earlier!

So, I have pulled the trigger on the attached diamond engagement ring but having now read some posts online re the GIA comments section (particularly the potential clouding) I am a bit worried about this selection. The diamond is eye clean and appears to shine bright (in direct sunlight too) but the online horror stories re clouds affecting clarity grading have made me doubt this. I have put down a deposit yday and went back to the store today (a very respected and recognised shop in Dubai) and both the sales guy and the shop manager have reviewed the diamond again and whilst they can see some clouds (on strong magnification only), they are still adamant that it does not affect the performance or sparkle at all. They say it is good value for what I am getting and GIA have just been more strict here as it is si1 (could perhaps be vs2 from others review). I am ok with their feedback as they are quite well known here and they are patient but the posts online concern me.

Am I overthinking this like many new buyers do? Will I ever care about the GIA comment again once the diamond is on her finger? Am I overpaying at $7500 given the potential for clouding on the comments?

I guess I am just after some last minute reassuring! Thanks so much in advance for anyone who takes the time to read and reply.
 

Attachments

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Psdxb1984 said:
Hi everyone, firstly thank you for this great forum. It is very helpful for novices like me, although I only wish I had checked earlier!

So, I have pulled the trigger on the attached diamond engagement ring but having now read some posts online re the GIA comments section (particularly the potential clouding) I am a bit worried about this selection. The diamond is eye clean and appears to shine bright (in direct sunlight too) but the online horror stories re clouds affecting clarity grading have made me doubt this. I have put down a deposit yday and went back to the store today (a very respected and recognised shop in Dubai) and both the sales guy and the shop manager have reviewed the diamond again and whilst they can see some clouds (on strong magnification only), they are still adamant that it does not affect the performance or sparkle at all. They say it is good value for what I am getting and GIA have just been more strict here as it is si1 (could perhaps be vs2 from others review). I am ok with their feedback as they are quite well known here and they are patient but the posts online concern me.

Am I overthinking this like many new buyers do? Will I ever care about the GIA comment again once the diamond is on her finger? Am I overpaying at $7500 given the potential for clouding on the comments?

I guess I am just after some last minute reassuring! Thanks so much in advance for anyone who takes the time to read and reply.
Click to expand...

Also the more I read online (eg also 61/60 dimensions) the more I worry I have made a mistake here :(
 
Welcome @Psdxb1984 ,

It would help if you post an image of the GIA report. Most people dont like to have to download on their machines.
 
Thank you @tyty333 and thank you for the tip also ;)

Screenshot_20210812-171502__01.jpg
 
You will get a variety of opinions on this diamond no doubt. People feel strongly one way or another about 60/60 diamonds. It might be helpful for you to read this very informative article on Diamond Proportions. I think it's should be required reading for anyone buying a diamond. This could be a very nice stone, but when buying online I would prefer to stay within the tightest recommended parameters. Were you provided with advance images like IS and ASET as well as photos to help guide your purchase?

www.pricescope.com

Diamond Proportions

The physics of light-behavior within a diamond are reliably consistent, which means proportions measurements can be useful.
www.pricescope.com
 
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Your feelings about the comment "clarity based on clouds not shown" is correct: the grading lab will state this when there is significant clouding present to cause transparency issues, resulting in the diamond looking hazy/fuzzy/cloudy.
The intensity of the clouding may be minor or it may be severe (think of it as how thin or thick fog can be on a cool morning...but you can still see it clearly), but it usually presents throughout the entire (or a vast majority of) the whole diamond.

The most common suggestion you will receive here at PS is to return it and keep shopping for an alternative. There are thousands upon thousands of diamonds out there at any given moment in time, so the odds are in your favor.

www.pricescope.com

Diamond Clarity: Everything You Need To Know

What is the best diamond clarity? Our extensive guide and interactive diamond clarity chart shows you everything you need to know.
www.pricescope.com
 
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The pavilion angle on this stone is a bit high. The 33 crown would have paired better with a 41 degree pavilion. Its somewhat of a
flat top with the larger table and lower crown. Not the numbers we would recommend...see @mwilliamanderson 's post above.

Did they show you the clouds under strong magnification? I would want to see what's in there and be able to play around with
it under high magnification. I would also, ask to see it side by side with a VS1 (or VVSx) stone so you can see if there is any cloudiness/haziness etc. See if you can compare in different lighting situations.

The price seems decent for an E of this size.

Do you have any up-close pictures or videos of the stone?
 
Hi all and thank you for the replies / opinions. I am grateful.

I viewed the diamond in the store under a few different magnifications. I did notice the other minor inclusions under magnification (not normal eye) but didn't appear to be anything to worry about for me. I didn't notice any major clouding at any level (but I am not an expert by any means) nor did the guys in the shop (but they perhaps have a different interest here).

I did also compare side to side with a few others (g, f,g si1s and e, f vs2s etc) but not of any higher clarity regrettably. This diamond in question seemed much brighter to me in person than those others I saw. The shop did also show me some cloudy diamonds that I compared with and the differences were very apparent. I also checked the diamond outside in direct midday Dubai sunlight with the manager and it didn't appear hazy or dull. He indicated the same as you might expect. Unfortunately I didn't get any decent photos or videos that would help much.

Re the propositions and cut, this is something I only looked at in more detail since as I (perhaps foolishly) relied upon the x3 ex of the Gia certification as well as thinking the larger table allowed me a little more size for less price than say a 1.2 or 1.25ct.

Having since checked more online at PS today I did now expect quite a few of you to have concerns but was maybe hoping this diamond might be the exception rather than the rule! :)
 
@Psdxb1984 are you able to return or exchange? I have a question for your folks as well since I have read similar things; many of you say to ask for ASET images. Of course with WF and AGS that is provided. Will most retailers understand this request and/or be able to provide an ASET when they are selling GIA stones??
 
Mreader said:
@Psdxb1984 are you able to return or exchange? I have a question for your folks as well since I have read similar things; many of you say to ask for ASET images. Of course with WF and AGS that is provided. Will most retailers understand this request and/or be able to provide an ASET when they are selling GIA stones??
Click to expand...

They can be purchased for use by the buyer when shopping in person (link below). Online it's a different story because only a few sellers (generally the ones recommended here) own their diamond inventory.

ASET Scope

datlas.com datlas.com
 
I have put down a deposit of approx 750usd and they will start the work today so think I still have an option now to change it.

FYI was also offered this before (same shop) but haven't seen the diamond in person to comment on the inclusion in the centre or the florescence. And I guess might be a bit more money

Screenshot_20210812-183924__01.jpg
 
Psdxb1984 said:
Having since checked more online at PS today I did now expect quite a few of you to have concerns but was maybe hoping this diamond might be the exception rather than the rule! :)
Click to expand...

It may still be an exception to the rule - there is no way for any of us to definitively know without seeing it, ourselves.
Right now, we can only offer advice and guidance with the information that we have: the proportions, angles, measurements, and comments on the grading report.

The factors that are positives are:
1. The E color
2. No Fluorescence
2. The GIA 3X rating
3. The plotted inclusions being rather small, spread apart from each other, and away from the center of the table.

There are only two real detracting factors here that will drop the cost to the seller, which should impact pricing to the customer at the cash register:
1. The SI1 clarity
2. The SI1 clarity based on clouds not shown

There are additional "PriceScope" (applicable to most of us here that are a bit more discerning) detrimental factors:
1. The shallow crown angle
2. The shallow crown height
3. The steeper pavilion angle
4. The near 60/60 style cut (60% for both the table width and overall depth)

The absolute primary concern is the clarity based on the clouds. My advice: keep this one on the back burner and look elsewhere for alternatives that compete with it on the basic 4C's but do not have cloud-based clarity.
 
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If you’re using Cara have Kieran check it over personally. He will give you an honest and expert view.
 
Thanks @DejaWiz this is really clear and helpful.

@Ionysis yep it is Cara. Have bought stuff with them before and theyre well respected by most accounts. Been dealing with Anup / Rajesh but will try to see if Kiran is around to get his view too. Thanks for advice
 
mwilliamanderson said:
They can be purchased for use by the buyer when shopping in person (link below). Online it's a different story because only a few sellers (generally the ones recommended here) own their diamond inventory.

ASET Scope

datlas.com datlas.com
Click to expand...

Yes I own one already. I just mean if you’re online shopping and there’s a GIA xxx and you asked for ASET if they will have any clue what you were talking about or are able to provide.
 
Mreader said:
Yes I own one already. I just mean if you’re online shopping and there’s a GIA xxx and you asked for ASET if they will have any clue what you were talking about or are able to provide.
Click to expand...

I see...it totally depends on the seller. Many don't provide that level of service/documentation, but I personally wouldn't purchase a diamond online without those images.
 
@Psdxb1984 any update on your diamond? And a question for those in the thread; another thing I have always wondered from the "clarity based on clouds not shown" thing - why the heck can they not show them in the plot?? As in OP's example, the plot is pretty clear so it seems that there would be room to show clouds. Are there so many that the plot would fill up? I have always wondered about this.
 
@Mreader I know that "Additional clouds not shown" or Additional pinpoints not shown" can be a factor of having too many to plot. I'm not sure about "Clarity is based on clouds (or twining wisps or feathers, etc., that are not shown". Hopefully someone can enlighten us.

My understanding, in spite of whatever is drawn on the plot, is that any stone that has a "Clarity based on" rating should be looked at by a professional to determine the impact. Diamonds graded VS2 or higher may be fine with these comments. SI and Iower clarity graded are probably not.
 
mwilliamanderson said:
@Mreader I know that "Additional clouds not shown" or Additional pinpoints not shown" can be a factor of having too many to plot. I'm not sure about "Clarity is based on clouds (or twining wisps or feathers, etc., that are not shown". Hopefully someone can enlighten us.

My understanding, in spite of whatever is drawn on the plot, is that any stone that has a "Clarity based on" rating should be looked at by a professional to determine the impact. Diamonds graded VS2 or higher may be fine with these comments. SI and Iower clarity graded are probably not.
Click to expand...

Oh yes for sure. For me if it says "clarity based on clouds not shown" which is quite different from just "clouds not shown" it would be a no-go. I just find it odd that on a plot that is nearly empty (and I've seen more than one like that) with the "clarity based on clouds not shown" that they can't show some of the clouds. :lol:
 
Mreader said:
Oh yes for sure. For me if it says "clarity based on clouds not shown" which is quite different from just "clouds not shown" it would be a no-go. I just find it odd that on a plot that is nearly empty (and I've seen more than one like that) with the "clarity based on clouds not shown" that they can't show some of the clouds. :lol:
Click to expand...

The pessimist in me thinks it increases the chance of selling the diamond if they don't put it all out there on the plot, lol.
 
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