Paging Gailey

[baby nurse]

Hello!

I was drooling over the morganite pictures from your August (?) ''09 post... I would be delighted if you could share the name of the lapidary who cut them for you

Also, any suggestions on where I might buy quality morganite online?

Is it standard for it to be heat treated and what is the typical cost/carat?

I''d welcome information from anyone else who would like to contribute as well!

 

[Gailey]

Hello Babynurse

Apologies for not getting back to you sooner. My morganite pears were cut by a German lapidary company: Hans Jacob Klein e.k.

Mr Karl Heinz Leyser from that company was visiting various jewellers in Canada and North America and my jeweller invited me to come and meet him.

It was an expensive way to buy gems and the appraisal came up a little short on the gems I bought from him. That said, the experience of seeing all those gems first hand was worth it to me - as a one off.

I will search through the sites I have bookmarked and see what I can come up with for you. Lots of people carry morganite, but a matching pair (of pears), in that very slightly peachy tone might be a bit of a challenge.

Meanwhile, if you are interested in seeing the gems cut by this company, I believe they do a couple of selling trips a year, you could e-mail them to see when they are next coming to NA, and ask them for the nearest location to you. I don''t believe they sell directly to retail customers, but you never know. Their e-mail address is: [email protected]

I''ll come back and let you know what I''ve found for you.

 

[baby nurse]

Oh Gailey, I''m so pleased to hear from you! Thank you for doing that research... what may make things easier is that I''m looking for a single stone for a ring, not a pair. I did look at paraibainternational but they seemed a little expensive, particularly since their stones are heated? Is your pair heated? The color is divine.

 

[Jeffrey Hunt]

Greetings,

I can''t help from speaking up here. This Easter weekend I attended the Intergem show in San Mateo California and saw an enormous supply of large Morganite gem rough. I believe it''s from Madagascar. All sizes of extremely clean material, which is somewhat unusual for Morganite. The price was a bit high, and priced for the hobbiest, I''m sure I could have negotiated a lower, quantity price.

I asked one of the dealers about heat treatment of the material because it was so spectacularly pink, leaning towards orange just a bit. He said he didn''t know for sure (an expected response), but hinted it might be irradiated. I believe his comment is a well educated guess.

I''m sure this material will soon be popping up through your favorite custom cutters and be sure to put in a request for a larger specimen if you''ve been holding out - now is the time. My guess is you will soon find good prices on large Morganite gems in the months to come.

Regards!

Jeffrey Hunt

 

[Gailey]

Jeff, I believe you are correct.

There certainly seems to be anecdotal evidence and some first hand knowledge out there about unattractive blue beryl first being irradiated and then heated to produce a stable coloured pink morganite. Posters on another forum talk about irradiation with cobalt-60 gamma rays.

Lisa also reported seeing lots of "treated" morganite at Tucson in 2009, not sure about this year.

I would be sceptical about the more saturated morganite that is appearing. I really don''t want to cast unfair aspersions, but I have looked at the colour of some of the Paraiba International stones and to my untrained eye it looks, frankly, too good to be true.

I have no idea if the treatment is detectable, what kind of equipment a lab would need in order to be able to tell. I wish there was more information available.

Unfortunately, I didn''t learn of this treatment until after I had bought my stones. Lesson learned. One thing is for sure, I wouldn''t undertake buying an expensive morganite again without a reputable lab confirming what had been done to the stone.

I would be interested to know what pricing ought to be for treated/vs untreated Morganite. A while ago I went looking for Morganite to see what it was being priced at and prices were across the board.

Jeff, it would be great if you could poke around to see if you can come up with any more information.

Babynurse, if this potential treatment bothers you, there is pale pink tourmaline out there that is also very nice. Did you see mine?

I will report back with what stones I can find out there. It would help if I knew what kind of budget you have.

 

[lelser]

I saw buckets of richly coloured Morganite rough in 2009, but was told by more than one dealer it was irradiated. This year there was some rough, but I saw more cut stones in that colour than rough material. In fairness though, I just wouldn''t buy irradiated beryl by choice, although I''d probably cut it for a client.

High quality untreated Morganite in large sizes is going to be expensive.

Here''s some Morganite I saw in Madagascar in 2008. It was very included, and VERY expensive. The colour was great, but who knows what they did to get it!

 

[Gailey]

Lisa,

I am assuming the rough in the background of your picture is the irradiated morganite? What about the deeper pink in the foreground? Can you clarify?

 

[lelser]

Date: 4/6/2010 10:07:51 PM
Author: Gailey
Lisa,


I am assuming the rough in the background of your picture is the irradiated morganite? What about the deeper pink in the foreground? Can you clarify?

No, the FOREGROUND is Morganite. The background is Rose Quartz. Like I said - no clue what they did to it.

Lisa

 

[baby nurse]

Thank you for the information, Jeffrey. Boy would I have loved to have been there to see that lovely morganite rough. I''m interested in a stone with a nice pink/peach color, but I''d definitely like to stay away from the irradiated material.

Is heat an accepted treatment of morganite?

 

[Gailey]

Date: 4/6/2010 10:12:24 PM
Author: lelser

Date: 4/6/2010 10:07:51 PM
Author: Gailey
Lisa,


I am assuming the rough in the background of your picture is the irradiated morganite? What about the deeper pink in the foreground? Can you clarify?

No, the FOREGROUND is Morganite. The background is Rose Quartz. Like I said - no clue what they did to it.

Lisa

Holy pooh-pooh!

That looks about as natural as my haircolour. Nice rose quartz. Do you think it''s natural? Can you get/cut me some?

 

[Jeffrey Hunt]

Hi Lisa,

The Morganite that I saw was lighter in color than the rose quartz in the background of your photo. It did tend to lean a tiny bit towards orange. It seemed just "off" a natural color to my eyes. I actually prefer Afghan Morganite, usually much lighter, more of a pure pink and generally more inclusions to work around.

I believe there was a fair amount of lower cab grade material, but I usually don''t pay much attention to that so can''t say for sure.

Good chance it''s the Tucson material, but flawless. I can certainly find out.

Regards,

Jeff

 

[Gailey]

Babynurse

I have somewhere around 100 gemsites bookmarked (but I''m not obsessed!). The following stones will be what I find from that list.

Unless I specify, you can take it that each of the stones I list come from a vendor who has either supplied (and satisfied) Pricescope members, or come from a supplier who I have been able to determine is respected by other professional lapidarists within the industry. If I spot a stone from a vendor of which I have no knowledge then I will say so.

Given what has been said already, I cannot vouch for the treatment levels of any of the stones. I have written to someone in this industry who has particular knowledge of treatment evaluation and appraisal for his opinion. I am hoping he will either post here with his advice or write back to me.

I will also include stones that are not morganite but fall into the colour range that I think you are looking for. I am going to aim to find a pear, but will include other possible candidates if I think have potential.

 

[baby nurse]

Gailey,

Thank you so much for the enthusiasm! I've done a fair amount of research online without much success, I'm afraid. The only two places I've found who have pretty stones are paraibainternational and forevergemstones. What a difference in price!

My dream stone would be the color of yours, I'm not terribly concerned about shape... perhaps an oval or cushion.

How do you feel about heat treatment? Is an unheated stone (thinking of sapphires) more valuable than a heated one?

In any case, whatever information you can share is bound to help

ETA I forgot to add that no, I didn't see your pink tourmaline, Gailey. I do like them very much and I own a couple. I'm a bit bothered by their color shift, and are they not a little less hard (mohs) than morganite? Still a very beautiful stone.

What do you think of untreated pink/peach topaz? There's another one that I'm drawn to but number one for me remains morganite

You had asked about budget. I'd rather not spend more than about $500/carat. My RHR size is 4.5 so I'm looking for a stone that is no larger than approx 5 carats

Wow, sorry for the ramble. I'm trying to get all my thoughts down and it's the wee hours of the morning. I'm not counting on you to find me a stone, Gailey, but whatever information you can share will help point me in the right direction

 

[Gailey]

Gemfix 5.94 cts barion cut trillion tourmaline
The Brazillian Connection 3 pears various size (no experience)
The Brazillian Connection various ovals
The Brazillian Connection various Trillions (including one awesome looking stone at bottom of page)
Gemrite Malaya Garnet 1.53 cts (very pretty little stone)
Moriarty Gems two very nice morganites
Africa Gems - various Maybe a contender amongst these!
Multicolour various Some pretty big differences in colour. Nice though

I'm not all the way through my list yet, but I need to get some sleep. I'll get back on it tomorrow.

 

[Gailey]

Date: 4/7/2010 1:28:02 AM
Author: baby nurse
Gailey,

Thank you so much for the enthusiasm! I've done a fair amount of research online without much success, I'm afraid. The only two places I've found who have pretty stones are paraibainternational and forevergemstones. What a difference in price!

My dream stone would be the color of yours, I'm not terribly concerned about shape... perhaps an oval or cushion.

How do you feel about heat treatment? Is an unheated stone (thinking of sapphires) more valuable than a heated one?

In any case, whatever information you can share is bound to help

ETA I forgot to add that no, I didn't see your pink tourmaline, Gailey. I do like them very much and I own a couple. I'm a bit bothered by their color shift, and are they not a little less hard (mohs) than morganite? Still a very beautiful stone.

What do you think of untreated pink/peach topaz? There's another one that I'm drawn to but number one for me remains morganite

You had asked about budget. I'd rather not spend more than about $500/carat. My RHR size is 4.5 so I'm looking for a stone that is no larger than approx 5 carats

Wow, sorry for the ramble. I'm trying to get all my thoughts down and it's the wee hours of the morning. I'm not counting on you to find me a stone, Gailey, but whatever information you can share will help point me in the right direction

More questions that I can answer tonight, but here is the thread with my tourmaline:
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-peter-torraca-masterpiece.100980/

I have to admit that the colour it displays in Peter's studio shot I have not seen at all. It is definitely more on the peachy side. If you spotted my morganite pears in my Pandora's box thread then you will also see pictures of my tourmaline.

That stone was cut by Peter Torraca. The rough came from Lisa Elser. It is possible she may have more rough from the same parcel. I can also vouch for the fact that like Peter, Lisa is a remarkably talented lapidarist. Do a search for my rubellite and you will see what I mean.

More tomorrow!

 

[baby nurse]

Thank you for the links to the morganite websites, Gailey. I''ve gone over them several times and I think the stones I like best are from Multicolour. Unfortunately, those are a bit included, which I think is pretty undesirable in morganite. I''m still tempted, though!

There''s one on paraibainternational for 525 that I really like. I would definitely send it to GIA-- I wonder if it''s had more than heat treatment...

I love the Malaya garnet, such a pretty pink but what an ugly color shift! I''ve looked at it a few times over the last couple of months and I''ve come close to buying it, but that brownish color it shifts to is awful!

Your tourmaline is a dream! I contacted Peter about the possibility of locating similar rough and he said that it was a possibility. I''m keeping my fingers crossed!

What do you think of light pink untreated topaz?

These are a lot of questions... no rush in answering!

 

[Gailey]

Babynurse, just wanted to let you know I have not abandoned your quest, but a really busy couple of days and a nasty Sping storm that took out the internet have delayed my response.

I am just heading out now, but will endeavour to pick this up when I come back.

 

[baby nurse]

Gailey, you''re a doll! There''s no rush, I''ve made a lot of progress just with the information that you''ve given me.

 

[Gailey]

Date: 4/7/2010 1:28:02 AM
Author: baby nurse
Gailey,

Thank you so much for the enthusiasm! I''ve done a fair amount of research online without much success, I''m afraid. The only two places I''ve found who have pretty stones are paraibainternational and forevergemstones. What a difference in price!

My dream stone would be the color of yours, I''m not terribly concerned about shape... perhaps an oval or cushion.

How do you feel about heat treatment? Is an unheated stone (thinking of sapphires) more valuable than a heated one?

In any case, whatever information you can share is bound to help

ETA I forgot to add that no, I didn''t see your pink tourmaline, Gailey. I do like them very much and I own a couple. I''m a bit bothered by their color shift, and are they not a little less hard (mohs) than morganite? Still a very beautiful stone.

What do you think of untreated pink/peach topaz? There''s another one that I''m drawn to but number one for me remains morganite

You had asked about budget. I''d rather not spend more than about $500/carat. My RHR size is 4.5 so I''m looking for a stone that is no larger than approx 5 carats

Wow, sorry for the ramble. I''m trying to get all my thoughts down and it''s the wee hours of the morning. I''m not counting on you to find me a stone, Gailey, but whatever information you can share will help point me in the right direction

I''m sorry it has taken me so long to get back to this thread Babynurse, life threw me a curve ball this week.

So to answer your questions.

I don''t feel the same way as many gem afficianados do here in regards to heat and other kinds of treatment. Many won''t touch a treated stone with a barge pole, which of course is fine. If I find a stone in a colour and cut that I like and the treatment is disclosed and the gem priced accordingly, then I am not opposed to it. This is especially true for me if the gem in question is both rare and expensive. For instance, I would like a pale pad sapphire. Way out of my price range in a size that I would consider, so I might even consider a lab created stone. Now we can''t discuss synthetics here, I only make the point to illustrate how I feel in general about treatment. Maybe it''s got something to do with my age! I don''t want to wait years and years for something. It''s a shame that others aren''t chiming in on this thread because I think you would benefit from other perspectives. Maybe consider starting a thread with a more general title.

I believe beryl (morganite) and tourmaline both have a Moh''s hardness of 7.5. Both are popular ring stones and so long as you are not planning this as an every day stone and you are careful with your rings, I don''t think one would necessarily be better (from a hardness perspective). But I am no expert - another reason to start another thread so others will chime in!

As for pale peachy topaz, well that''s my favourite in this type of gem in colour range. MY ER is a golden topaz which has only needed the crown re-polishing once after 18 years. Probably a lot more difficult to come by and more expensive than either morganite or tourmaline. It is harder at 8.0. Apparently topaz has perfect cleavage, which means that a swift knock might break it in two. My ER stone is bezel set and very low, and hasn''t been a problem. But you might want to bear that in mind when considering how to set your stone if you do end up with a topaz.

I''m going back to searching for you now.

Meantime, do a google search for Jason Brim. He has some nicely coloured morganite, but I believe his website is down. Search and you will find him though.

 

[Gailey]

Gemnut She has one morganite listed but some nice pale Malaya garnet.
Concave cut morganite from Richard Homer
5+ cts pear from Forever Gemstones
Very nice pink topaz from Gemart Services 7.42 cts

I can check back over the previous sites for topaz, but it''s late. I''ll try and do that tomorrow.

 

[Gailey]

Bump, because I don''t think Babynurse has seen the latest responses.

 

[baby nurse]

It''s almost 1:00 AM so if I sound wacky, there''s your reason.

I want to thank you again for your enthusiasm, Gailey! I really do appreciate it.

I love Gemnut''s stones, especially the malayas. I thought her morganite was a little big and I''m not crazy about the concave cut (hope I''m remembering the right one) on it. But those malayas...

Richard Homer''s concave cuts have gorgeous color. I like a more traditionally faceted look rather than the concave cut.

I also had previously seen the Forever Gemstones morganite. They are a beautiful color, but not the right shape.

I love the topaz from Gemart Services and would buy it in a heartbeat if it were just a teeny bit smaller.

I feel like I''m sounding very picky and I''m sorry about that!

I''ve contacted several people about their stones and the two I''ve had most success with are Jeff White and Doug at Bespoke Gems. Neither one has the rough I''m looking for but they''ll try to get it. So that''s exciting.

I wonder if you can do one more thing for me Gailey. Can you take a look at this stone and tell me what you think? I don''t know how to add the link, sorry

It''s tourmaline #129 on the Bespoke Gems site. I''m IN LOVE with the color of this stone but the section above the girdle is so high, I''m concerned that it would be vulnerable to damage. Am I right?

Thank you for your help, Gailey! You don''t need to add anything more, and I may start a new thread to get some general advice.

BTW, I have a beloved aunt in Bow Island, and cousins in Calgary. My husband and I are from Ontario and now live in NH.

 

[Gailey]

I guessed that was the stone you were referring to.

Several points to make about it:

I think Doug has not shown this stone to it's best advantage. Tourmalines are notorious for showing a "tilt" window, which is the area in the pictures that look so clear that you can see the background shining through. Mine does it too as you will notice in the picture below. I suspect if you look at that stone head-on, it will look quite brilliant. Ask Doug if he can try and take an image head-on to show you what it looks like without the tilt window. It's a good question to ask because the degree of brilliance will affect how much colour you see. Brilliant cuts tend to minimize colour and you are already looking at quite a pale pink. It may appear even paler head on. That's one of the reasons you see so many diamonds cut as round brilliants, it minimises the colour.

I suspect the high crown has a plus and a minus to it. It probably adds considerably to the overall brilliance of the stone, but yes, you are correct, that also makes the stone more vulnerable to damage. I see you mention a husband, so I am guessing this isn't going to be an engagement ring or an every day ring, so you might be OK so long as you are careful. However, at 9mm in diameter, I suspect that stone is reasonably deep. It's important that you ask Doug for the depth measurement and make sure you will be a happy with a stone that will sit that high on your finger.

One other thing about these pale pink stones. You will see from the image below that the colour of it is virtually identical to my skin. Now your skin tone might be completely different to mine, in which case it won't be an issue for you. However, if it is similar then you will want to give some quite careful consideration to how you are going to set it. This is part of the reason my stone is still sitting un-set.

I felt it was important to have some sort of visual barrier between the stone and my skin, such as a halo of diamonds, just to give a visual break. So you just need to bear that in mind.

You are right about Gemnut's Malayas, they are quite a stunning colour. I have seen at least one respected expert (Zeolite) comment on the quality of one of her Malayas. There's a post or two about it somewhere. Suggest you do a search for all of Zeolite's posts and see if you can find it.

Garnets have a higher refractive index than tourmalines, which gives them more sparkle. I think that this might suggest that a garnet might not need such a deep cut as a tourmaline to show this effect, but I'm just guessing here, not technically competant enough to make that call.

BTW, the curve ball I mentioned in an earlier post was that my husband has been asked to transfer to Markham, Ontario. I may start a thread about it in Hangout in due course looking for some advice, so any you might be able to offer at that point would be very gratefully received.

Keep me posted on your quest!

Good luck.

 

[baby nurse]

Well, that''s quite a curve ball. Markham is pretty far from Calgary, but still in Canada When I''m faced with huge changes like that, I always fall back on "OK, we''re all healthy..." When you have your health, you have everything.

I''m from Cornwall which is in between Ottawa and Montreal. The name Markham is familiar to me but I''ve never been there so I can''t contribute anything right now. But, I''ll ask my parents and let you know.

Thanks for looking at that tourmaline. You know, I think it''s beautiful but I don''t think I''ll go so far as to ask for additional pictures or measurements. I can''t get past the idea that it''s a lot of money to pay for something that would be prone to damage. I am easy on my rings and it would be a right hand ring, but still...

Jeff has a light pink-peach piece of rough that I may ask him to cut. And Peter Torraca said that he likely could locate a piece of rough similar to your stone. These are more practical options.

Thank you for reminding me of the importance of skin tone jiving (sp?) with stone color. I''ll definitely keep that in mind. I really look forward to seeing your stone set!

I will keep you updated on my search!