Perfect Cushion Cut Ring Search

inztinct11 · Sep 14, 2010

Hello All,

This is my first post on pricescope and as you all probably already guessed, I have decided to take the big step in my relationship with my gf and I need your expert help! First of all, I must mention how awesome this website is, with the wealth of information it contains as well as the knowledgable people on the forums that provide such valuable advice! You guys really help educate a lot of people and make this search process much more enjoyable.

I am currently looking at getting my gf a ~ 1ct Cushion Modified Brilliant Diamond. After doing some research, I have realized that the cushion pavillion can have different layouts and this has only complicated the process of picking a particular stone.

Below are a few stones that I have been looking at on JamesAllen (I currently have abt 30 in my shortlist at the moment and trying to boil it down

) and was wondering if anyone can comment on which one is most likely to be more brilliant/sparkle based on the layout, cut, depth, size or anything else that could affect a diamond.

#1314712 http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/D-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Cushion-Diamond-1314712.asp

#1317721 http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/E-VVS2-Ideal-Cut-Cushion-Diamond-1317721.asp --> this picture looks very nice and clear as opposed to the first one. Also, the depth and table size are almost equal size for this diamond, is this cause for concern?

To me, both diamonds listed above look great and have a great GIA rating. But then again, I didnt know anything about diamonds about a month ago. Do you guys see anything that I might be missing and any suggestions about what I should really be focussing on when picking my diamond?

Another big question I had is regarding the settings. I visited Shane Co a couple weeks ago with my gf and she found a setting that she really likes. Given that I am planning to buy the diamond online, I was told that the cost for setting a diamond at ShaneCo would be $3 per point and that I would be charged another $300 as they would need to change the prongs on this setting to match a Cushion diamond(apparently the cushion diamond uses special prongs???) This means that this $400 setting would cost me $1000 to have a 1ct diamond set in it. Do it really make sense that the prongs would cost almost as much as the oringal setting ???

http://www.shaneco.com/Catalog/ProductDetail.aspx?X=41045046&O=Dept&C0=1&C1=3

One of the main reason that I was attracted to shaneco was their service (free cleaning, check prongs integrity ...) but this seems to be quite a price to pay for all that. What do you guys typically recommend when it comes to getting the stone set in the ring?

Wow, I appologize for the long post but I cant wait to hear your opinions. Thank for reading

stone-cold11 · Sep 14, 2010

You will need to request ASET image for the stones. Note that JA only allows for 3 ASET request, so choose wisely.

Does not look very special to me, most vendors would have similar setting. Don't bother about the cleaning, checking etc, most jewelers will do it for you for free while you wait, so that you have time to browse their goods. Plating will have a cost if you are getting a white gold setting that is rhodium plated.

This might be good. http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/3662/

ChunkyCushionLover · Sep 14, 2010

inztinct11 said:
Hello All,

I am currently looking at getting my gf a ~ 1ct Cushion Modified Brilliant Diamond. After doing some research, I have realized that the cushion pavillion can have different layouts and this has only complicated the process of picking a particular stone.

Is there a particular look you are going for?
How did you conclude you wanted a Cushion Modified Brilliant?

http://www.shaneco.com/Catalog/ProductDetail.aspx?X=41045046&O=Dept&C0=1&C1=3

Simple Pave pand with 6 prong tiffany style head. That setting is very inexpensive and is either very thin or has a lot of metal showing for such small pave diamonds. 6 Prong head is usually made for a round not for a cushion.

Wow, I appologize for the long post but I cant wait to hear your opinions. Thank for reading

inztinct11 · Sep 14, 2010

Stone-Cold11 -

Thanks for your reply. I didnt know about the ASET image restrictions, so I will clearly have to think carefully about those.

I checked out the diamond that you linked. It is an F SI2 but yet priced at about the same price as the ones that I posted above (D-E color and VVS1-2) and certainly looks great. What could be the reason for this? What would make this diamond cost more than the ones I posted above? (I asked this mainly because so far, I have been going with what is in the GIA certificate and trying to stay at the top of the ladder for each of the 4Cs, but maybe thats not a smart thing to do ??)

What is your opinion of the 2 diamonds I linked above ??

ChunkyCushionLover -

My gf looked at a few cushions in the stores at the malls and she loved the cushions and has a preference for slightly rectangular ones. She decided that she didnt like the ones with too large facets(which I believe are considered by GIA as cushion brilliant) as they seem to reflect light as opposed to the smaller sparkles. She prefers the ones with smaller facets which make it sparkle a lot more. (I saw a video on whiteflash which seemed to indicate that )

As far as the setting, if you look at the options for diamonds, when you select a cushion, you will see that they show it with 4 prongs. I was told that they will change the prongs but that will cost $300 bucks extra and another ~S300 for setting the diamond. Is this right ?

When you say "very thin or has a lot of metal showing for such small pave diamonds", are you suggesting that it might not be a good choice as a setting and has a potential to break ??

Thanks again for your responses!

lovemybling · Sep 14, 2010

I agree... You should be able to find that setting almost anywhere. And ANY jeweler will inspect your ring and clean it for free. So don't buy into Shane Co's hype. Look and see where you find the stone and then see if you can find the setting there

stone-cold11 · Sep 14, 2010

inztinct11 said:
Stone-Cold11 -

Thanks for your reply. I didnt know about the ASET image restrictions, so I will clearly have to think carefully about those.

I checked out the diamond that you linked. It is an F SI2 but yet priced at about the same price as the ones that I posted above (D-E color and VVS1-2) and certainly looks great. What could be the reason for this? What would make this diamond cost more than the ones I posted above? (I asked this mainly because so far, I have been going with what is in the GIA certificate and trying to stay at the top of the ladder for each of the 4Cs, but maybe thats not a smart thing to do ??)

What is your opinion of the 2 diamonds I linked above ??

It is an F SI1. Price sometimes can also be due to the cut. GIA do not grade cut performance of a fancy stone, so nothing to rely on for that. Polish and symm, VG and Ex grade are indistinguishable without tools and knowledge. Color, personal preference, some like colorless, some like tinted, some like colored stones but generally, for that size in a well cut stone, G is as good as colorless unless you are comparing the stones side by side. Clarity, as long as eye-clean, you will not be able to tell the difference between an IF and SI2 stone, even some I1 are eye-clean, depending on your eye-sight.

inztinct11 · Sep 14, 2010

lovemybling said:
I agree... You should be able to find that setting almost anywhere. And ANY jeweler will inspect your ring and clean it for free. So don't buy into Shane Co's hype. Look and see where you find the stone and then see if you can find the setting there

I have been looking around for a similar setting but havent found one yet. The closest that I found to the shaneco setting is the following at jamesallen:

http://www.jamesallen.com/engagement-rings/pave/18k-White-Gold-Pave-Set-4-Prong-Ring.html

However, what my gf really liked in the setting from shane, is the fact that the small prongs holding the pave diamonds are almost invisible as opposed to the other one. She really liked how the pave diamonds looked like they were just laying there without the bulky prongs.

If you guys have seen a similar setting elsewhere online, I would greatly appreciate if you let me know

Stone-Cold11 - I totally agree with what you said regarding clarity(even the lower ones are still eyeclean) and also abt color. However, given that they are priced abt the same, I would think that I might well pick the ones that scored higher on the scales? But in doing this, am I really getting the best for my dollar? I guess what I am really asking here is, what parameters do I really need to consider when selecting the diamond online, since as you mentioned, most are indistinguishable without proper tools ...

antelope1 · Sep 15, 2010

inztinct11 said:
what parameters do I really need to consider when selecting the diamond online, since as you mentioned, most are indistinguishable without proper tools ...

?? Diamond pricing is based on the 4 C's only 3 of which are graded by the labs in the case of a cushion. In the case of a cushion, you have to look at it with your eyeballs in different lighting to evaluate the cut quality. The tools that experienced online buyers use (DiamXray, Idealscope, ASET, etc) are proxies for what you would see if you looked at it in real life. This is why the online merchants offer these tools, so that cut quality can be assessed remotely, without the consumer laying eyeballs on the diamond.

The last C (cut) is the first for many on this forum because it can make a smaller or lower color stone seem bigger, whiter, and brighter than a poorly cut (but larger or better color) stone. For the same 3 other C's, a well-cut stone (with a great ASET, IdealScope, etc) commands a substantial premium over a poorly cut stone -- it could be something like an additional $2k (or more or less depending on the carat weight) for a really well cut stone compared to a stone of average cut. Therefore, you can expect a lot of variation in pricing for the same cert qualities (don't even start us on certs issued by different labs).

In your case, I really suggest that you look at more diamonds IRL before settling on a shape, let alone a stone. For example, if your GF likes sparkles and rectangles...how about a radiant cut? Or a cushette? I'm just pointing out that many mall jewelers don't have a full array of shapes or styles (and tend to stock just the ones that they sell the most of), so one visit to mall stores isn't going to give you sufficient information to start shopping online -- or at least shopping online with confidence.

Good luck!

ChunkyCushionLover · Sep 15, 2010

inztinct11 said:
Stone-Cold11 -

Thanks for your reply. I didnt know about the ASET image restrictions, so I will clearly have to think carefully about those.

I checked out the diamond that you linked. It is an F SI2 but yet priced at about the same price as the ones that I posted above (D-E color and VVS1-2) and certainly looks great. What could be the reason for this?

What would make this diamond cost more than the ones I posted above? (I asked this mainly because so far, I have been going with what is in the GIA certificate and trying to stay at the top of the ladder for each of the 4Cs, but maybe thats not a smart thing to do ??)

Two reasons

1) More rough is cut away in an 8 main cushion brilliant pavilion making it more expensive to produce for the same carat finished weight.
2) This is an in house stone with known optics, lifetime upgrade and buyback policies.

This is a modern cushion brillian with medium size flashes not a bad choice considering your preferences but you may find alternatives from JA. In general most CMBs are cut for weight and its very difficult to find ones that are top performers in brightness and scintillation.

My gf looked at a few cushions in the stores at the malls and she loved the cushions and has a preference for slightly rectangular ones. She decided that she didnt like the ones with too large facets(which I believe are considered by GIA as cushion brilliant) as they seem to reflect light as opposed to the smaller sparkles. She prefers the ones with smaller facets which make it sparkle a lot more. (I saw a video on whiteflash which seemed to indicate that )

Whiteflash does videos? You mean Goodoldgold? Keep in mind facets are much much smaller and the size of them is less noticeable in person.

As far as the setting, if you look at the options for diamonds, when you select a cushion, you will see that they show it with 4 prongs. I was told that they will change the prongs but that will cost $300 bucks extra and another ~S300 for setting the diamond. Is this right ?

When you say "very thin or has a lot of metal showing for such small pave diamonds", are you suggesting that it might not be a good choice as a setting and has a potential to break ??

I don't know the proportions it just seems so inexpensive for what it is. If its 22 1point diamonds that is okay but I would question the craftmanship and quality of the setting for that price.

Comparables of known good quality:
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/home/ring-details/?product_id=5472
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/home/ring-details/?product_id=5484Thanks again for your responses!

inztinct11 · Sep 15, 2010

hey guys ... thanks a lot for all the information so far ...this certainly helps a lot!

ChunkyCushionLover - You convinced me about that ShaneCo setting. I too had some worries about the integrity of the setting and the fact that I would need to pay $600 bucks to have a diamond set on a $400 dollar setting doesnt really make sense either. So I am going to keep looking for another setting ... Thanks for opening my eyes on this!

As far as diamonds go, I think I am pretty much set on the Cushion shape (I mean she is

) She really likes the fact that the cushion has the characteristics of both the round and square shape diamonds, and the rounded corners. She also likes the ones that are slightly rectangular.

This is where I really need your help in picking the right stone. So far in my search on JA, those stones have stood out to me as potential candidates and I would love to hear your thoughts on them (good or bad

):

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/E-VVS2-Ideal-Cut-Cushion-Diamond-1317721.asp --> I was attracted to this diamond as the dimensions were bigger than most other 1ct stone I saw and the picture looked nice, the GIA grades looked good and the Cut was rated as Ideal at JA. My main concern is with the depth and table %? What do you guys think of this stone ???

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/D-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Cushion-Diamond-1314712.asp --> I also liked this one a lot, again good GIA ratings and great picture in my opinion but different cut from the first one. Any opinions on this one??

I have several others that I am looking at on the JA website at this time but the ones above are currently my top 2 so far. Please let me know how you guys think these compare and feel free to suggest others! I really appreciate all the help!

ChunkyCushionLover · Sep 15, 2010

inztinct11 said:
hey guys ... thanks a lot for all the information so far ...this certainly helps a lot!

As far as diamonds go, I think I am pretty much set on the Cushion shape (I mean she is ) She really likes the fact that the cushion has the characteristics of both the round and square shape diamonds, and the rounded corners. She also likes the ones that are slightly rectangular.

If you are looking for a brighter brighter stone with decent fire I would be looking for reasonably tall crown (which means a table 60% or less) and an overall depth in the 65 - 70% range.

These numbers don't guarantee you a nice stone but it helps increase your chances of a stone with decent brightness and fire which you can then narrow down further with the ASET images. A lot of this comes down to how small you want the virtual facets(flashes). But based on the numbers and photographs these have the most promise in my opinion.

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/E-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Cushion-Diamond-1284578.asp
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Cushion-Diamond-1300661.asp
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/F-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Cushion-Diamond-1281195.asp
I have several others that I am looking at on the JA website at this time but the ones above are currently my top 2 so far. Please let me know how you guys think these compare and feel free to suggest others! I really appreciate all the help!

inztinct11 · Sep 15, 2010

I just received the ASET for one of the diamonds I was interested. What do you guys think?

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/E-VVS2-Ideal-Cut-Cushion-Diamond-1317721.asp

DCdiamondgirl · Sep 15, 2010

I really like this Gabriel & Co. setting that Good Old Gold has:

http://shop.goodoldgold.com/index.cfm/a/catalog.prodshow/vid/46574/catid/170

Here is a thread with a cushion cut in the setting:
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/engaged.144583/

Good luck!

inztinct11 · Sep 15, 2010

DCdiamondgirl said:
I really like this Gabriel & Co. setting that Good Old Gold has:

http://shop.goodoldgold.com/index.cfm/a/catalog.prodshow/vid/46574/catid/170

Here is a thread with a cushion cut in the setting:
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/engaged.144583/

Good luck!

Thanks for the link. This definitely looks very similar to the one I had picked out from Shane. However, for the centershape, it states that it is for Round? Do you think the prongs would be compatible with a Cushion?

Also, can anyone comment on the ASET image above? I need to give JA a decision abt this diamond. JA mentioned that there was a small bow-tie but that it was common for this type of cut and that it didnt really affect the diamond . Please let me know your thoughts.

inztinct11 · Sep 15, 2010

Just trying to bump this up ... Can anyone provide some feedback on this ASET image? JA mentioned that there was a small bow-tie but that it was common for this type of cut and that it didnt really affect the diamond.I need to let them know if I will go forward with this diamond by tomorrow! Thanks!

Is there too much green and too much white in this? And do you think the bow-tie is bad???

boredstiff · Sep 15, 2010

I like it, but I don't really know all that much about cushions. White seems pretty minimal.

antelope1 · Sep 16, 2010

boredstiff said:
White seems pretty minimal.

I beg to differ. I don't think the ASET is properly white-balanced (the image)...so everything that appears light green or turquoise should actually be white. That leaves a lot of green with a little red in the middle (which might look like a bow tie in person). I would avoid a diamond with a bow tie because it it would drive me bananas. That's just me, tho.

So I would pass on this one.

inztinct11 · Sep 16, 2010

antelope1 said:
boredstiff said:

White seems pretty minimal.

Click to expand...

I beg to differ. I don't think the ASET is properly white-balanced (the image)...so everything that appears light green or turquoise should actually be white. That leaves a lot of green with a little red in the middle (which might look like a bow tie in person). I would avoid a diamond with a bow tie because it it would drive me bananas. That's just me, tho.

So I would pass on this one.

Thanks for your honest opinions guys! Antelope1, I do agree that there is a lot of green and white, and good catch with the white balance. I think I will wait until I find a better stone.

I'm a little confused abt the bow-tie, would the red bow-tie in the picture end up making that bow-tie effect due to it being surrounded by green and white?? I thought the red in the ASET shows the brightest part of the stone.

If you look carefully at the center of the picture, I noticed a very small black bow-tie and thought that was the one they refered to, but i could be wrong here.

Also, does anyone know if bow-ties are common in the cushion and how bad they really are??

antelope1 · Sep 16, 2010

Bow-ties happen when the length is greater than the width -- most commonly in marquise, pear, ovals, etc -- but can happen in cushions too. There's an article on bow ties ... on GOG's website? I can't find the link.

Rockdiamond · Sep 16, 2010

Hi inztinct11

My feeling is that aset will do more to confuse the issue than assist you in selecting.
I'd suggest look at photos instead or videos if they are available. aset shows potential dark areas, photos can show actual dark areas.
Bow ties can occur in any shaped cushion- possible more rare in square ones- but it's not the LxW ratio that causes it.

inztinct11 · Sep 16, 2010

Rockdiamond said:
Hi inztinct11

My feeling is that aset will do more to confuse the issue than assist you in selecting.
I'd suggest look at photos instead or videos if they are available. aset shows potential dark areas, photos can show actual dark areas.
Bow ties can occur in any shaped cushion- possible more rare in square ones- but it's not the LxW ratio that causes it.

I guess this is what makes buying a cushion that much more difficult online. At this time I am leaning towards using JA and unfortunately they dont provide videos.

If anyone can suggest some cushion stones, I'd be really grateful! I am looking for a 1ct colorless stone(pref D-F) with a budget of $5-6k and I am looking for something slightly rectangular with no culet (L:W = ~1.1)

I havent seem much information about the following cut. Anyone out there has any experience with this style of cut? How's the brilliance and sparkle? Does this cut make it look like the Crushed Ice???

Rockdiamond · Sep 16, 2010

Yes,in my experience, that type of facet pattern can, in many cases, result in the crushed ice look.

sweetpea&babycorn · Sep 16, 2010

inztinct11 said:
Rockdiamond said:

Hi inztinct11

My feeling is that aset will do more to confuse the issue than assist you in selecting.
I'd suggest look at photos instead or videos if they are available. aset shows potential dark areas, photos can show actual dark areas.
Bow ties can occur in any shaped cushion- possible more rare in square ones- but it's not the LxW ratio that causes it.

Click to expand...

I guess this is what makes buying a cushion that much more difficult online. At this time I am leaning towards using JA and unfortunately they dont provide videos.

If anyone can suggest some cushion stones, I'd be really grateful! I am looking for a 1ct colorless stone(pref D-F) with a budget of $5-6k and I am looking for something slightly rectangular with no culet (L:W = ~1.1)

I havent seem much information about the following cut. Anyone out there has any experience with this style of cut? How's the brilliance and sparkle? Does this cut make it look like the Crushed Ice???

i've seen this type of cut before. i came across a cushion with this facet pattern on james allen when i got my cushion. i saw it in person and it was very pretty, except the border of the diamond looked like glass. here is an image of it. it's the one on the left. you really don't see it very often, and when mark of ERD was educating me on cushions, he said this facet pattern usually shows up from cutters who want to maintain an 8-main facet but save on carat weight. hope it helps!

inztinct11 · Sep 16, 2010

Sweetpea -Thanks a lot for this picture. You really do see the outline for that extra set of facets and I'm not sure if I like that.

However, below is a picture of another diamond that I had requested from JA with the same layout. In this one, the outline is not very noticable as in your image. I believe my picture also contains what you guys call a bow-tie.

sweetpea&babycorn · Sep 17, 2010

i think the bowtie may be coming a greater elongation of the stone? i'm not a cushion expert, but i do think i read that somewhere. i found find a bowtie in a cushion very unattractive. maybe here it could be more of a smushed maltese pattern because of it's larger L:W ratio? i'm sure more knowledgeable PSers will comment on this. but in any case, it looks like this cushion could have a sort of splintery look to it, like this (i hope the owner of this stone doesn't mind me posting it - i think she returned it):

but this is just speculation. only more pictures could tell you what this will really look like.

have you considered expanding your vendor search? it seems like your gf would be interested in what we call "modern" cushions with smaller flashes. i myself prefer 8-main cushions for this. the diamond on the right in the image in my last reply is the one i now own. if this is what you think she likes, also check out charmypoo's and chunkycushionlover's threads in SMTB and see if this is the type of cushion your girlfriend would like. if so, here are some i found on bluenile for you. they are all 8-main brilliants. if you contact mark at engagement rings direct, he can call them in for you and give you his thoughts.

http://www.bluenile.com/cushion-cut-diamond-1-carat-good-cut-g-color-vvs1-clarity_LD00125843
http://www.bluenile.com/cushion-cut-diamond-1-carat-very-good-cut-g-color-vvs2-clarity_LD00121743
http://www.bluenile.com/cushion-cut-diamond-1-carat-very-good-cut-g-color-vvs2-clarity_LD01053994

these may be a little lower in your color range, but you usually would not see a difference between an F and a G, unless you were super super color sensitive.

inztinct11 · Sep 17, 2010

sweetpea&babycorn said:
have you considered expanding your vendor search?

I picked JA mainly because most of their stones in inventory have an actual picture which helps formulate an initial opinon. I wish bluenile did the same. Also, so far, I have had a positive experience from the JA customer rep. I guess the downside of shopping online is to actually pick something from the hundreds of results that come up after a search.

I have been poking around JA today and came up with the following list based on the feedback I received from you guys so far and the L:W ratio that I am after. Can you guys let me know what you think of them?? I need to get my list down to 3 and JA will have their gemologist review them side by side. Let me know if there are any ones that you would totally discard and which ones you guys like. (Feedback good or bad is welcome

) I broke it down into 3 types and ideally hope to have a winner from each type ...

inztinct11 · Sep 18, 2010

What do you guys recommend when it comes to the girdle thickness for cushions? Is this something that can make or break a diamond in terms of looks and performance ???

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