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Please confirm if this diamond is a good buy for my partner’s engagement ring!

J

JamesP

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 24, 2023
Messages
14
I am currently looking to buy an engagement ring for my girlfriend.

I have looked at a bunch of different options. My original budget was $25k Australian (~$16.7k USD). However, I wanted something in the 2-3 carat range and the one I have settled on is about $34k Australian (~$22.7k USD) instead.

The details are as below. I’d really appreciate any advice on if this is good value as I am close to buying it and it is obviously a big investment!

Thanks in advance.

F95CA7DC-A20D-4224-9748-1223E355558A.jpeg
 

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The experts on here would need more information and at least a video to determine anything about this stone. If you’re worried about someone snatching it up, can you put a hold on it and then send more info? Bad diamonds can look good on paper.
 
Fancy cuts cant be judged by numbers, we need video to see how the stone performs
 
momofive said:
The experts on here would need more information and at least a video to determine anything about this stone. If you’re worried about someone snatching it up, can you put a hold on it and then send more info? Bad diamonds can look good on paper.
Click to expand...

Couple of videos from the supplier here:


There is aLeo some more detail here: http://pck.blob.core.windows.net/in...AD198&showMediaType=Video&mediaKey=QX99JES0BU

Would really appreciate any thoughts/advice! Thank you!
 
Hi!
I' m not an expert, so take my opinion with a grain of salt...what I see:
- some bow tie in the first video,
- little bow tie in the second video,
- beautiful stone in the video attached to the link.
 
Hoping the experts to chime in and help you...
 
I think there is a slight bowtie from the videos. But I like it overall because it seems lively. However, I'm not an oval expert
 
Ps. It's an SI2, which would concern me in this size. What are the inclusions?
 
Yes. I see the slight bow tie as well but it seems to be lively. You do want to check on those inclusions as lovedogs said.
 
I took a look at what DejaWiz posted: I don't like the flaws on the table and the bow tie effect.
 
I think these are the inclusions (below)? They are at the link here when you click on 'Digi-plotting': http://pck.blob.core.windows.net/in...AD198&showMediaType=Video&mediaKey=QX99JES0BU

I am a bit in the dark as to how significant these are.

I presume to avoid any of these then it would require going down in size as I am at the very top end of my budget. So it's really a question of:
a) how significant these are and whether they should reduce the fundamental value of the diamond below what I'm paying; and
b) how visible would they be to the eye/would they diminish the vibrancy of the diamond when worn?

Thanks again for all the help everyone. Amazing community here! Really appreciate it.

James

1679883682331.png
 
The inclusions may very be get obscured quite well due to the faceting pattern. I've seen much, much worst SI2 (even some SI1).
Does your jeweler have a return policy or, better yet, a non-obligation policy for getting any potential pre-purchase deposit back (if applicable) should the inclusions be bothersome to you?
 
DejaWiz said:
The inclusions may very be get obscured quite well due to the faceting pattern. I've seen much, much worst SI2 (even some SI1).
Does your jeweler have a return policy or, better yet, a non-obligation policy for getting any potential pre-purchase deposit back (if applicable) should the inclusions be bothersome to you?
Click to expand...

I don't think they have a return policy but I only have to put down a partial deposit ($5k AUD) at this point and I think they would potentially be flexible if they were bothersome to me. To be honest, when I look at the videos I don't see anything I would have an issue with personally.

The only thing is this bow tie point a few people have made - I can see that, but I presume that you are going to get some degree of bow tie effect with any oval diamond you buy?
 
Oh, and one other query I had was whether the medium blue fluorescence is likely to have an impact on the appearance in person?
 
It’s very rare to find an eye clean SI2. It’s even more rare to find one in larger sizes like you are targeting. I would be very concerned with this and want the jeweler to put in writing that you have no obligation to purchase and you will also receive a 100% refund of the down payment ($5k AUD) if you elect to walk because the stone isn’t up to snuff. Make sure the wording is clear — refund, not store credit. As in cash in your pocket so you can leave and go buy elsewhere. Or if you use a credit card, immediate processing of a full refund in lieu of cash. But again, NO store credit or obligation to spend the $5k with him on another diamond. You want the option to walk free and clear.

Although not called out on the lab report the “digi plotting” feature identifies 2 extra facets on the pavilion. There are a few reasons why. Perhaps during selection of rough and cut planning it was most advantageous to do this to maximize size. Or perhaps there was an inclusion that would have provided a lower clarity grade so it was removed instead. Or perhaps this is an older stone that a different customer traded in that had some damage and it was fixed and then regraded. Closer examination is required and further concretes my first piece of advice about making sire you have an option out of this deal.

Also in the notes it states some surface graining is present. Depending on severity this may cause the stone to be slightly hazy when the medium fluor gets excited under proper UV lighting and the stone fluorescences. And while some folks may appreciate some fluor in lower color grades, it’s not always well received in higher grades. Personal preferences aside, the market sees medium+ levels of fluor as less desirable and as such stones with medium+ levels trade for less money of equal counterparts with none or faint levels. At least they should trade for less money. If they aren’t being discounted then perhaps this jeweler isn’t being honest. Not accusing but making you aware.

Anytime you buy a fancy shape it’s a good idea to see how it performs under an ASET scope. The inventor of that scope, @Garry H (Cut Nut), is a member here and also has two (I believe) stores in Australia called Holloway Diamonds. Depending how close he is to you it may be possible to buy a scope from him to help assess this stone further in regards to light performance.
 
Some alternatives. @Rhino is well known and respected here. He has developed his version of a super ideal oval shape. I didn’t see anything on his site in the size range you want but it may be worth a call to him to see if he can do a custom order. This is a 1.87 E/VS2.

www.distinctivegem.com

ELYQUE-OVAL 1.87ct. E VS2 1465695

Diamond Details Measurements 8.86 x 6.38 x 5.11 Cut Grade ID Polish ID Symmetry ID Fluorescence NEG Ratio 1.39 Table 45.1 Depth 67.1 Lab Report
www.distinctivegem.com www.distinctivegem.com


Another alternative is Brian Gavin’s heart & arrow (H&A) oval diamonds. Again high performance light return. These stones are based on H&A faceting seen in round diamonds. Unfortunately I didn’t see your size, color, etc but I am linking one that you can check out and then contact BGD if you are interested. I’m relatively certain Brian and Leslie could do a custom for you.

www.briangavindiamonds.com

1.742 I VVS1 Brian Gavin Signature Oval

Brian Gavin Diamonds
www.briangavindiamonds.com www.briangavindiamonds.com

Lastly Jann Paul has an Oval 8 H&A stone. Their site isn’t as easy to look at inventory so a call is necessary. But here are some videos.


 
I'm going to be honest with you. This is a typical oval. It's just ok if you ask me but I'm pretty picky about ovals and you're not
in the U.S. I dont know what you have access to in Australia.

I'd rather see stones like this below (if not the Super Ideal cuts that sledge posted above). Can you see the light return on this one? As
it turns more well-defined facets that return light "well" come into view. Yes, there is some leakage around the edge of the table
but I'm afraid the one you're looking at has lots of mushy areas that arent going to return light well. You are there to see it in
person so you can get a better assessment than I can only having access to the videos. As I said, I'm pretty picky about my ovals.
About 95% plus wont work for me.

 
Thanks for the advice, @sledge and @tyty333. I have secured written confirmation from the jeweller that if I am unhappy with it when it arrives in person, I can receive a 100% refund of the deposit.

I've also had a good look through all the links above. Some of the examples do look really nice and I can see what you mean regarding the refracting of the light. Having searched a bit more on the sites you linked, it does look like I would need to reduce size expectations to ~2 carats or below in order to achieve this outcome or alternatively get something with a strong blue fluorescence.

Given the above, I'm wondering if the best approach is to pay the deposit, get to see the ring in person (and take a couple of videos for this forum), and then make a final decision at that point?

Thanks again!
 
I'm glad you were able to get the return policy in writing. Have you been able to look at many ovals (of any size)?

The one you are looking at is what I call an 8-main offset. This means it has 8 mains on the pavilion (bottom of the stone).
They are offset from the center. You an see 4 of them in the pic below. A lot of these have mushy areas outside of the
4 arrows you see. In between the 4 arrows you see well-define facets that mirror the light back nicely. You can see what
the pavilion faceting pattern looks like by looking at the GIA report Clarity Characteristics on your first post.
Red = arrows, green = nice facets, brown = kind of mushy
marked up.png

This is a different faceting pattern. It is an 8-main (not offset) where the arrows go straight through the center of the stone.
They, in general*, tend to have better light return and less mushy areas. Unfortunately, this is an old picture and I dont have
a link where you can see the stone in action but you can see that there is less mushy area (circled in green)
snip 2.png
What the plot would look like for the 8-main stone
8 main (not offset).png
Actually here is a link to an 8-main (non offset)
www.jamesallen.com

1.00 Carat oval diamond

This oval cut 1 carat I color si1 clarity has a diamond grading report from GIA
www.jamesallen.com www.jamesallen.com


Link to a 6 main which also tends to have better light return (these are just examples so you can see the faceting pattern and
see the light return).

www.jamesallen.com

1.01 Carat oval diamond

This oval cut 1.01 carat D color si1 clarity has a diamond grading report from GIA
www.jamesallen.com www.jamesallen.com
Pavillion of a 6 main
6 main oval.png

So, to wrap this all up, you can find well-cut stones and poorly-cut stones of each of the different faceting patterns because it
also depends on other things like angles/table size/depth etc. but, in general, I find the 8 main non-offset and 6 mains to
have better performance than the 8 main offset (like the stone you are looking at).

While I know this is going to make it harder to find a nice stone I do hope it is helpful. Sometimes we have to pick and choose
what we are willing to accept like slightly reduced light return for a bigger stone. Most PSers are all about the cut (light return)
and are willing to go for a smaller stone to get the brilliance/fire/scintillation that we know well-cut diamonds are capable of.
 
Thanks @tyty333, super helpful!

The diamond came in today so I got to see it in person and have uploaded a few videos as follows. I thought it was really impressive and lively but as we have established throughout this thread, I’m quite the novice! Would appreciate any thoughts based on the videos. And please ignore my stubby fingers



 
It looks to have some nice flashes coming off the crown facets (yeah). Ask to see the stone in other lighting (not jeweler lighting).
See if you can view it outside, in a bathroom...just anywhere its not under the jeweler's lights. Where you are currently seeing it
(under jeweler's lights) is pretty much the best any stone will ever look.

You want to make sure you like it under other lighting conditions. Any chance he can bring in other stones at the same time for
comparison? You would need to have input into what he brings in.

Also, have him put it in the tweezers the other way (north-to-south vs side-to-side). Tilt it up and down and see what you think.
This is a view she will see on her finger most of the time (unless you are planning on having set East/west). See what you think.
FYI in case I'm not making sense...
nsew.png

It looks better than I thought thanks to the crown angles. Still wish it had more* nice facets under the table. The hard thing is
that you have no other ovals to compare it with. You are there to see it in person and have to make the decision if its
going to be your stone. I know, pressure, right? If you have any other questions...let us know!

Oh, does the jeweler have an aset scope by any chance or can he provide an aset image?
 
You are getting excellent advice from @tyty333!

I would like to reinforce the lighting aspect. Jewelers invest a boat load in their lighting and for good reason, it helps them sell diamonds. I understand they want to show off the best attributes of a stone they are selling but those light levels just aren’t realistic in every day life. I’m generalizing here — but even poorly cut stones look great under those conditions. Just as the most ideal cut looks as bad as a poorly cut stone when viewed in a closet with NO lights. Light changes everything. The precision of the cut will determine how that light is reflected. When ideal cut stones are put in low or normal lighting conditions they still perform exceptionally well. The same cannot be said for poorly cut stones. So PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE heed the advice provided to analyze in different lighting conditions.

Also, and I mean this respectfully, but how can a person with almost no experience looking at stones and especially no direct comparison of known ideal cuts make a good decision on cut quality? You can only take the jewelers opinion with a grain of salt. After all, they have a bias to sell you the stone and make a profit. While you may hear lots of positives, the negatives are likely withheld so the sale doesn’t flop.

Getting an ASET scope would help level the playing field a bit. I mentioned Holloway Diamonds being in Australia. Garry is the owner and developed both the idealscope and ASET scopes. I suspect you can find one available to buy, borrow or rent.

FWIW, as impressed as you are with this stone, keep in mind those chunkier (and less mushy) facets of a 6 main pavilion will be even more lively. You are spending a large sum of money. You can and should be picky to ensure you get the most bang for your buck.
 
To add to the already excellent posts: you can create your own indirect lighting condition by holding a piece of paper, newspaper, file folder, or similar above the diamond and cast a shadow over it. Look for dark zones, windowing, and sleepiness.
 
Lighting is key. You have to love it in all different types of lighting. As nice as the jeweler is, they are salesmen after all is said and done. Maybe you could have him bring in some similar quality 6 mains to compare. Take your time with this and don't rush. In the end though, it is your decision.
 
If you’re feeling really froggy find a 4 main one as well.
 
Hi all,

Managed to get a video of the diamond outside in natural light conditions. Would appreciate any thoughts!


Here are also some videos of the diamond next to a couple of other similar diamonds. My one is the one on the left and the comparisons are on the right:



Unfortunately I haven't been able to get an ASET yet.

Overall I feel fairly happy with it for the price point based on what I can see with my eyes - but obviously these are very untrained eyes so appreciate all the continued input and advice. There are obviously some areas where it might be possible to improve on the diamond but given I am right up against the upper end of my budget constraints, I only want to consider improvements if there is potential to do so without spending more (i.e., trading off other characteristics, the most obvious of which I guess is size/carat). Thanks again everyone, awesome community here and I am learning a lot!
 
Hi all, just bumping the above last post I did with additional footage of the diamond in case you have any thoughts :) I'm pretty happy with how it looks in person but always appreciate other (more educated!) perspectives.

Thanks again!
@DejaWiz @sledge @tyty333 @momofive
 
From the videos, this one looks better to my eyes.

Screenshot_20230417-071642-095.png
 
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