Please give me some advice. . .

[cellososweet]

If you''ve been in this situation, please give me advice. Not to sound bitchy, but i don''t need idealistic psychological advice. That is common sense. I need real life, "been there, done that" advice. Thanks

My FMIL is a b*tch. Ok, so that is a little harsh. But, judge for yourself. From day one she told my FI that she didn''t like me because I am black. Apparently the one drop rule still applies in her demented world. I am half black, half polynesian and dutch. But that is besides the point. I''m not the submissive little Korean girl she had wished for her son (even though i speak korean). So, from the minute she hears about me, she trash talks me. I meet her nine months later and she is sugary sweet. Of course. Yet, she calls my FI and tells him he''s better off without me, she''s not coming to the wedding, if we have black kids the "Kim family name" will be null and void forever. (which A.- is BS, and B.- he''s not the only child). *sigh* All this after 3 years! So last night he goes over to them to ask them to cosign on a loan for school and they flat out refuse and then start digging into him about why he is still living with me, how our interracial children will have a difficult life, etc. I am going to cosign for him (he has good credit, but a few student loans already and it''s a small amount, so no biggie) but he wanted to ask his parents first because they said they would do it. What a trap to get him to come over and give him hell.

They pretty much leave him alone but whenever he goes over there, it is just hell on earth. Or whenever they randomly decide to call and tell him he''s useless. He stands up for himself and for me, but they are ridiculous and even though he tries to shrug it off, i know it hurts him really badly. They were abusive when he was younger and now they are manipulative. The funny thing though is that she even told FI that she would come to our house to tell me to leave him alone. I''d love the b*tch to come over. i can demean people on a pretty calm level.

So my question is. . . should we just cut them off? I''m a big believer of looking at people as people first and their titles (mom, dad, boss, etc) second. If they are a sh*tty person, they are a sh*tty person and don''t deserve my respect. My FI feels the same way. I want him to have a relationship with his parents, but not if they are constantly going to be abusive to him and basically tell him his life is worthless and disappointing to them (he is getting a degree in business/finance, works at a bank, is financially secure, etc. what more do they f*ing want?) argh. My fear is that if we don''t cut them off, we will have children and they will try the same sick demented crap with them. What happened when your FMIL/FFIL became too abrasive, nosy, irritating, ridiculous?

Sorry this is so long and swear word filled. I need some yoga. Now!

cellososweet

 

[laurel_aurelia]

i actually had this reaction because i was WHITE! i dated a fililpino guy for about five years from the time i was 16 until i was almost 21. so it''s not like we were living together or anything, and we went to college in different parts of the state. his parents would blame EVERYTHING on me (including the loss of his virginity -- we lost our virginity to EACHOTHER but yet they told him i was probably "tainted" and had lied to him about being a virgin.) they were HORRIBLE about me-- my family was divorced, i''m not a strong church goer, all of these things meant i was horrible. "please don''t marry her, she''s trash", etc.

we ended up breaking up because i couldn''t handle it. so i really can''t offer any advice except to praise you for being strong and not as sitting duck as i was.

please let me know how it goes!

 

[Skylah]

Cut them off. I know it''s easier said than done but they are NOT going to change. Sorry, but that''s the truth.

I had a friend with a similar experience. They were together for 2 years, got married, and divorced 3 years later. It was hard on her, hard on him, and she just didn''t want to bring children into it. He eventually became verbally abusive because his self-esteem had reached the lowest level it had ever been.

My thought is that if you guys don''t cut them off, they will keep hurting you both. And children? Crap, those kids will be so messed up hearing that kind of stuff it''d be abuse! I can''t stand someone saying my Mom''s hair looks weird let alone all the things you mentioned above and I''m a 32YO woman!

Oh, and not like you asked, but I think them not cosigning this loan was good luck. Don''t bind yourself to these people financially - it will wreck you.

It would be nice if they could change but they won''t. It will be hard, but you will both be better partners and parents without them. Sad but true.

 

[cellososweet]

Skylah
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

You know when you think you are right and you''re so sure, but for some reason you just need to hear it? This was one of those times.

 

[jcrow]

hum. i would say if you do cut them off, let it be FI''s decision. let him be the one to pull the trigger on that one.

i agree with Skylah on the financial situation thing too. it''s a blessing!

 

[Caribou]

Date: 4/24/2006 1:56:48 PM
Author: jcrow
hum. i would say if you do cut them off, let it be FI's decision. let him be the one to pull the trigger on that one.

I agree. I mean you can cut them off yourself, as long as FI is aware of it. So then you just don't go to any where just the 3 of you, and if there is a family function don't talk to her, don't outrightly ignore her but don't go out of your way with her. Seems like he sees how his mom is with you, so he may very well understand. But cutting her out of both you and your FI's life is really up to him, that is his mother, as manipulating as she seems, but his mother non-the-less.

 

[Skylah]

Oh, I assumed this would definitely be a mutual decision. No doubt about it, it has to be.

 

[diamondfan]

I think when parents are toxic and bad, it is so tough to face. This is so beyond typical mother in law crap like the mil criticizing your cooking skills or something like that. He needs to be DONE since she is just bad and has evil thoughts. God forbid, like someone posted, she EVER say that bad stuff to your kids...

 

[Kaleigh]

I say cut them out of your life. Who needs toxic people like that around. God forbid they said stuff like that to your kids if and when you have them. They won''t change. Sorry you''re in this situation, it sucks.

 

[FireGoddess]

Cut ''em loose!!

 

[snow_happy]

Hello cellososweet --

I hope this advice is not too idealistic

. My background is that both my parents are Chinese and my FI is white. My father, the last couple of years has resorted to telling me what a disappointment I am to the family, how I make my mother cry at night (although she says this isn''t true), asks me where he went wrong, how I turned out so selfish and screwed up...nice things like that...and gee, I don''t think I''m *that* screwed up - I graduated from a great university and am on full scholarship for my masters.

While it''s easy to say "just cut them out", it''s not so easily done. My dad will always be my dad. I''ve found a way to step out of the drama that he creates and see the triggers. When I mention the wedding = happy dad. When I mention FI = angry dad. When I mention getting a job = happy dad. When I mention getting a job far away on the east coast = angry dad. Once I was able to do this, I saw that my dad just doesn''t want to let me go...it''s not just my FI, or that he''s white...I''m sure he would find fault in a future husband no matter what his race. My mom also echoed this saying even if you marry within the race, there are always judgements and criticisms made.

A few months ago my dad and I had this knock down drag out fight that started because he was pissed we had to invite Tim''s aunts and uncles to the wedding

(duh right?). He started going off on his usual ego-bashing and then stated that he didn''t agree with the marriage, was disappointed that I am marrying my FI even though he doesn''t approve

, and that I love my FI''s family more than my own. The fight continued through a few emails and finally I was able to see the root of it all (the whole I don''t want you to leave me thing). So I just stated it out right - no matter who I marry, what family I am marrying into, where I move to -- you will always be my dad and I will always love you no matter what. (it''s crazy, insane even, but true) That stopped his whining and freaking out pretty quick.

I figure my dad is like a teenage girl (kind of) in that what he says isn''t always the whole story and if you can attack the root (like a weed) then you''d be surprised at the outcome. A lot of things my dad says about my life and my FI sound mean, but I get that he wants me to have a good life...just "his" image of a good life...but deep down it comes from his love for me. If he really disapproved of my life and DIDN''T love me, then HE would cut me out right?

Seeing all this really made me feel powerful in my dad and my relationship - not just the person who gets beat up all the time. About six months ago I started this seminar series called Landmark Education and it''s really opened up a lot for me in how I was being in my relationships and how to be who I really wanted to be in those relationships. It''s taken a lot of work but it has really been great.

So I guess my advice to you and your FI is: will you really (honestly) be happy cutting his parents out of your lives forever? If not, then what are you going to do so that it''s a relationship that you feel comfortable, accepting and powerful in? Maybe you can take a step back and find the root. For me, Landmark really helped and there are also other things like that around. Often also, taking to other Korean couples (interracial or not) with parents who are reacting the same way might open some things up for you and your FI.

Good luck and feel free to message me anytime

(by the way -- I think it''s great that you speak Korean! SO COOL)

My Best,
Joanne

 

[snow_happy]

(sorry so long)

 

[cellososweet]

snow_happy,
I really appreciate your response but unfortunately, it''s not quite as easy as "I don''t want you to leave me." if it were, we wouldn''t be in this situation. The root? His father has a masters in engineering and runs a baby store. He''s disappointed that he didn''t do with his life what he could have with such a high degree. He''s angry, bitter, remorseful. He was physically, verbally and emotionally abusive not only to my FI but also his siblings and his mother. His mother has a bachelors in psychology and co-owns the baby store with his dad. as you can see, she hasn''t had it easy. but, she is horribly manipulative. She is part of a horrible gossip-culture and gets pissed off that her sons are not going to berkeley and becoming lawyers or accountants. It''s sickening. They don''t compare to the preset standards set by her and her "friends." I wrote a whole thesis on 2nd generation Korean-Americans and how they get caught up with American values and first generation gossip culture. It''s alarming. And true. That is the root problem with her. She is a selfish b*tch and wants her kids to do things that make her look good to her "friends" even if they are miserable.

Charming huh?

I really appreciate your words and i wish it were that easy, but frankly they have threatened him with being disowned over and over. That''s why FI and I think it might be high time to cut it out. Their "love" is seriously conditional. His dad is pissed that he didn''t become a pilot. But i told FI that even if he did become the best pilot in the world, his dad wouldn''t like the airline he flew for or how he ironed his suit. Or something. It will never end.

Thanks everyone for your responses. They have been really helpful.



Cellososweet

 

[snow_happy]

Hi cellososweet

It hasn''t been easy for me either. If I am making it sound easy then that is totally cool because it was a huge struggle for me for over a decade and now I have come to a happy place

. I have also been threatened with the "disown" thing and honestly sometimes I do feel like my dad''s love is conditional but I''ve decided that my love for him is unconditional. I know this must be a hard situation for you and your FI because you care about him and don''t want to see him hurt! It sounds to me like his parents want a great life for him but are unwilling to compromise on the definition of a "great life".

I really do believe that there are many ways of looking at a situation and sometimes our view (due to the amount of knowledge we have) is the only view we have or can accept (this, of course, also holds true for the parents). I''m definitely not condoning what his parents have done or are doing, but I do believe that parents love their kids - even if they act badly towards them. I personally don''t know anything about Korean culture but I do know that Chinese culture has its share of gossip. Usually it''s good to stay on the positive side of the rumor mill but that''s not always the case. I''ve found that no matter what I do, people are going to talk so I''m just going to do what makes me happy and that''s that.

I would say that the choice you and your FI are facing is a deep and heavy subject...just make sure you and your FI are happy with whatever you two choose to do.

Good luck

 

[chickflick]

Goodness, I don''t know what to say except I''m so sorry you''re all having to go through these things!! I think there does come a time when you have to say, "my wife/husband is my family now, and if you accept me you accept us both. We''re a package deal." I can''t imagine how hard that would be but I think that''s the only thing to do if your family is being that irrational.

I hope you all find a good middle ground that works for all family members!! My thoughts are with you!

 

[Madam Bijoux]

Would your fiancee'' be willing to sit his parents down and warn them that they will be cut off if they don''t treat you in a civilized manner? If they refuse to treat you with dignity and respect, the best thing to do would be to cut them off. I have cut relatives out of my life and have never regretted it.

 

[TravelingGal]

They''re Korean eh? How old is your FI? I would say the solution is to wait about 10 or 15 years....Korean parents seem to mellow out about their kids significant other as they get older. It goes from "get married to the perfect person" to "hey, he''s got all his own teeth, isn''t that nice?"

All kidding aside, you have my sympathies. I have to run off to a meeting now, but I''ll come back later with a more thoughtful post. I am Korean. I understand the culture, and it''s difficult to explain the nuances of eastern thinking to someone who is not from that background. However, you seem very sensitive to the culture (speaking Korean and all...excellent!) Your FMIL is a bitch...they are a dime a dozen, and I recognize all the signs you are talking about. I am actually marrying an Australian and am SO relieved I am not having a Korean MIL!

Anyway, be back in a bit with my .02.....

 

[blodthecat]

Date: 4/24/2006 1:56:48 PM
Author: jcrow
hum. i would say if you do cut them off, let it be FI''s decision. let him be the one to pull the trigger on that one.


i agree with Skylah on the financial situation thing too. it''s a blessing!

I agree with the above...It is important that he makes that decision.

I have been there and wore the tee-shirt. I am English and my husband is Indian. So he was supposed have an arranged marriage to a nice Indian girl. HOWEVER...things didn''t go that way, and he met me!

14-years down the road, we have two beautiful children and are really happy. However, his family are NOT in the picture.

I don''t have any bad feelings towards them, as that would be a very negative thing for me. I don''t want to hate anyone, and it wasn''t me that had the problem.

There isn''t white, black, jewish, muslim etc....THERE IS ONLY ONE HUMANITY

Sending you both my very best wishes for the future.

Blod

 

[griffitk]

Why do you have to cut them out forever? People do change over time. I wouldn''t look at this as a "forever" situation. I think the determination is that they are not good for your or your FI''s emotional health at the moment, so you should limit/cut contact. If you feel differently in the future or they mellow, you can always make amends.

At this point I think you have three options:

1) Cut them out entirely. Don''t attend any functions where they''ll be present. Have no contact. Change your phone number and email addresses. Ask common relatives/friends not to relay information.

2) Sit them down together and state matter-of-factly that you will not have anything to do with their nonsense and they can cut it out or you will default to option #1. In the mean time, if something slips out on their part, just walk away. If you''re visiting them and they say anything negative, then leave. If it''s a bigger group situation, just turn your back and walk away. You don''t even have to put up with passive aggressive stuff. The moment something negative passes thier lips, turn and walk away.

3) Duke it out in the back alley! (j/k)

Good luck!!! That''s a really tough situation!

 

[jesterjigger]

If it were me, I''d cut them out. What they are doing is emotionally abusive, and there is no way I would subject kids to being around them, so better nothing than abuse in my mind. Of course, I''m sure that''s easier said than done, but my grandpa abused me once when I was a little girl and completely denies it, even when I confronted him about it finally last year. He will not be invited to my wedding, nor will he ever see more than a picture of any grandkids that may result.

Of course, I''m a really black/white person when it comes to things like these, you do have a chance to change, but if someone acts like your FMIL I would say that''s enough, and not want to risk her ruining the wedding/marriage. But that''s just my two cents.

 

[snow_happy]

I vote for the duking it out in the back alley

 

[cellososweet]

Hey Everyone

Thanks so much for the advice.

Griffitk- we''ve tried number two. That''s why we think #1 is the only option at this point. And no, we''re not horrible enough to make it forever. I hope that''s not what everyone thought i had implied. If they decide to get their thumbs out of their arses, we''ll gladly make amends. But nothing until then.

Travelinggal- congratulations on no korean FMIL (half sarcasm, half truth). Even the nicest mothers of my friends have turned into the most evil witches when they became FMIL''s. It''s a horrible stereotype that gets perpetuated, unfortunately. And yeah, i''m super sensitive to the culture. my undergrad research was on second generation korean american immigrants and the struggle with assimilation and such. Been there, studied that! Now i have it in real life. Joy (sarcasm). Hehe.

Thanks so much everyone. Me and FI and talking seriously tonight. Hope everything goes well. Wish me luck.

Cellososweet.

 

[Caribou]

cellososweet, I was just thinking, if you cut them off temporarily it might make them wake up and realized how mean they are being. Of course, maybe not...but that would be worth a try.