Please help evaluate this old cut!

[vitona526]

I am appreciative of any and all opinions!!! About the diamond, not the setting. Haha. The setting would be scrapped.

age, cut, color, clarity, etc.? Is it a circular brilliant, transitional, or OEC? a decent buy at $8500? (Price after I sell the gold). I’ve been seeing so many OMC and OEC’s at great prices on Instagram, but mostly 1.6-2.1 Ct range.

It was listed as a 2.7 ct circular brilliant, K-L color, VS2-SI1. and is returnable.

Outside of the bezel measures about 10.2 mm diameter. Some photos below with a 2.35 ct F and .8 ct H.

I can’t see under the bezel so there is the possibility of a chip. Any other thoughts? Nail head or normal center darkness?

I spent so much time researching modern brilliants for a lab diamond. I’m in a whole new world with the old cuts!

Thank you in advance for your thoughts and insight!

 

[vitona526]

Video 1…

https://imgur.com/a/h8xYZKn

 

[vitona526]

Video 2…

https://imgur.com/a/LD5PC6O

 

[vitona526]

Video 3.. thank you!!

https://imgur.com/a/0Mjrd39

 

[lulu_ma]

Gah-it’s hard for me to tell from the pics but I’m thinking later OEC L/M SI. Could look whiter when out of the bezel (bezels can trap tint).

What are the estimated measurements on the stone? Do you have calipers?

 

[vitona526]

Gah-it’s hard for me to tell from the pics but I’m thinking later OEC L/M SI. Could look whiter when out of the bezel (bezels can trap tint).

What are the estimated measurements on the stone? Do you have calipers?

I do have calipers. I can’t get a good read on the diamond itself, my best estimate is 8.7 mm visible. Across the bezel measures 10.2 mm in 1 spot and 10.5 in another. In this honker of a setting I can’t see how deep it goes into the bezel. I don’t mind the color. The last diamond I was looking at I kept thinking… people are going to ask why I chose a champagne diamond. But I know it effects the value so it is a consideration.

 

[lulu_ma]

I do have calipers. I can’t get a good read on the diamond itself, my best estimate is 8.7 mm visible. Across the bezel measures 10.2 mm in 1 spot and 10.5 in another. In this honker of a setting I can’t see how deep it goes into the bezel. I don’t mind the color. The last diamond I was looking at I kept thinking… people are going to ask why I chose a champagne diamond. But I know it effects the value so it is a consideration.

What about the depth? I know that will be tricky…

 

[Mreader]

I will look at this more carefully later, but I did have one quick question. You said the final price was 8500 after you scrap the Gold? That only means they’re giving you $270 in gold? That does not sound right! So you should get somebody else to buy the gold for you

 

[vitona526]

What about the depth? I know that will be tricky…

It’s about 6.4-6.5 from the top of the crown to the bottom of the setting but I can’t tell how recessed the diamond is. It’s not much but is it 1 or 2 mm? I can’t tell.

 

[lala646]

I will look at this more carefully later, but I did have one quick question. You said the final price was 8500 after you scrap the Gold? That only means they’re giving you $270 in gold? That does not sound right! So you should get somebody else to buy the gold for you

I think she's accounting for the sales taxes and shipping on top of the list price. If you're looking at an additional 8-10%, that really adds up.

 

[vitona526]

I will look at this more carefully later, but I did have one quick question. You said the final price was 8500 after you scrap the Gold? That only means they’re giving you $270 in gold? That does not sound right! So you should get somebody else to buy the gold for you

I included the taxes . Thank you for looking out for me!

 

[lala646]

@vitona526 I'm so happy to see these pictures, and to read you're comfortable with the color. I think it will brighten when out of that setting. The clarity looks great. I like the facet pattern. Nice clean culet. I like that there's some kozibe. Based on what we can see in the images, I don't think you'll find too much girdle damage (though there's no way to say zero at this point). How do you feel about the table size? I can't really tell from the photos. Small or medium? It definitely doesn't look large.

 

[vitona526]

@vitona526 I'm so happy to see these pictures, and to read you're comfortable with the color. I think it will brighten when out of that setting. The clarity looks great. I like the facet pattern. Nice clean culet. I like that there's some kozibe. Based on what we can see in the images, I don't think you'll find too much girdle damage (though there's no way to say zero at this point). How do you feel about the table size? I can't really tell from the photos. Small or medium? It definitely doesn't look large.

It’s small. Or on the small side at least. The 2.35 has a 56% table and this one is smaller.

 

[lulu_ma]

Here are a couple of comps-seems like you're paying maybe $2k-$3k under retail.

2.11ct GIA CERTIFIED L SI1 OLD EUROPEAN CUT DIAMOND VINTAGE LOOSE NATURAL 2ct

This stunning 2.11ct old European cut GIA certified diamond is 100% eye clean and dazzlingly brilliant. Cut by hand a lifetime ago, it is completely unique, guaranteed to be 100% conflict free, and full of old world charm. Historied and full of life, this diamond will make an engagement or right...

ivyandrose.com

2.78 Carat Old European Cut Diamond color Q Clarity VS2

Shape:Old European Cut, Carat Weight:2.78, Color Grade:Q, Fancy Color:N/A, Fancy Color Intensity:N/A, Fancy Color Overtone:N/A, Clarity Grade:VS2, Length:8.82 , Width:8.54 , Depth:5.83 , Cut Grade:N/A, Polish:Good, Symmetry:Fair, Fluorescence:None, Stone Ratio:1.03, Table %:48, Depth %:67.1...

47jewelry.com

 

[Mreader]

I included the taxes . Thank you for looking out for me!

Oh yes, OK that makes more sense now!

 

[Mreader]

I think it looks like a really pretty stone. So hard to tell the color surrounded by all that yellow gold! The other thing is that I don’t know if it might have any chipping once it’s released from that crazy setting! But 8500 for a 2.7 Oec Even one with low color seems like a good price to me. I defer to the bigger experts on the forum though.

 

[LightBright]

The diamond is likely an M or lower.
It is noticeably warmer than your other diamonds.
This would be my only concern with this diamond, as I prefer whiter stones. I’m an outlier, some people adore warm stones.
The girdle might be nicked, or attempted to be recut. The shape of the girdle looks like it’s not perfectly round so I’m not sure what’s under the bezel.
Will you rebezel it? If you don’t want to rebezel the shape and condition of the girdle might matter.
Some of facet junctions are slightly worn, indicating authentic antique cut. I love this aspect, slightly worn facet junctions define faceting pattern, in my opinion. Girdle is hidden so no way to know if stone retouched.

From the videos and shots of the crown of the diamond. I adore the fire of this diamond. I love the crown, it’s a later OEC like lulu_ma says. This to me is a great cut. It’s the kind of cut that modern cutters are trying to copy. This cut is actually pretty rare. The reason it’s intact is the warm color makes it more valuable as an original antique cut vs recycled into a modern. It’s possible that the stone appears warmer because it’s set down into yellow gold.

I don’t know about price. But imo it’s below market if there are no hidden condition issues and that carat weight is in general accurate.

I like this diamond a lot, if you are aware of potential downsides indicated above, which are both known (color but this is my opinion only) and unknown (girdle and hidden areas of the diamond due to bezel).

 

[Lookinagain]

I really like the cut of the stone. Really hard to guess on the color looking face down because of the yellow setting. What does it look like from the side view as far as tint? Do you see a lot of tint? I can't tell from the photos. Assuming that you keep it (I would) do you think you will send it to GIA for a cert? Or get the opinion of a local jeweler?

 

[lavenderdragonfly23]

She’s so pretty and she’s got KOZIBE & FIRE!

She’s warm, but it’s so hard to guess because I’m sure that setting is making her look warmer than she really is. She looks like an oec with that tiny table, and faceting that’s inching towards a transitional.

If you love the cut, I would free her and send her to GIA! Thats a great price for a ~2.7ct!

 

[vitona526]

The diamond is likely an M or lower.
It is noticeably warmer than your other diamonds.
This would be my only concern with this diamond, as I prefer whiter stones. I’m an outlier, some people adore warm stones.
The girdle might be nicked, or attempted to be recut. The shape of the girdle looks like it’s not perfectly round so I’m not sure what’s under the bezel.
Will you rebezel it? If you don’t want to rebezel the shape and condition of the girdle might matter.
Some of facet junctions are slightly worn, indicating authentic antique cut. I love this aspect, slightly worn facet junctions define faceting pattern, in my opinion. Girdle is hidden so no way to know if stone retouched.

From the videos and shots of the crown of the diamond. I adore the fire of this diamond. I love the crown, it’s a later OEC like lulu_ma says. This to me is a great cut. It’s the kind of cut that modern cutters are trying to copy. This cut is actually pretty rare. The reason it’s intact is the warm color makes it more valuable as an original antique cut vs recycled into a modern. It’s possible that the stone appears warmer because it’s set down into yellow gold.

I don’t know about price. But imo it’s below market if there are no hidden condition issues and that carat weight is in general accurate.

I like this diamond a lot, if you are aware of potential downsides indicated above, which are both known (color but this is my opinion only) and unknown (girdle and hidden areas of the diamond due to bezel).

Thank you everyone for the feed back! This sounds ridiculous …but I’m so happy to you think she’s pretty! I hold PS opinions in the highest regard.
@Lookinagain @lulu_ma @lavenderdragonfly23 @Mreader @lala646
I wish I could figure out multi quote …

My new loupe was just delivered and I see 2 spots that could be chips in the girdle. That could potentially be a deal breaker. The local jeweler is closed Monday so I will take it Tuesday. If he sees what I see, I’ll have to think on it. If he thinks the girdle looks good, I’ll have her removed from the setting and see about sending to GIA. Of course with photos posted here

My gut is telling me she’s not as warm as she looks in some of these photos and I don’t mind this shade of warmth even if it is M-N-O.

 

[LightBright]

Some of the shots make me think if you free the stone from the bezel/yellow gold, it might not look as warm. I have a warm color stone that looks very orangy in incandescent light, but pale yellow outside and in front of a window pale vanilla.

I still think the consistent body color I’m seeing with your diamond indicates a warmer stone (even from the bottom upwards shot) but I do see photos where the tint is not as noticeable, if at all. And it’s fiery.

Also, girdle chips can be actual chips due to an unfortunate event in the cutting process, which in old times, didn’t make the stone unwearable or unbeautiful. Second girdle flea bites are a to be expected part of cutting the girdle in antique stones, because they were hand bruted.

Some PSers used to write about rehabbing the entire girdle because they didn’t like the flea bites. I would never do that. Most people don’t notice tiny imperfections on such a stone, once it’s set. But everyone is different in their tastes and tolerances. What I’m saying is flea bites and tiny chips or Naturals on the girdle are completely typical. Much Rarer are large chips running down the pavilion which also were due to cutting. I don’t see that here.

Taking it to an experienced jeweler for a second opinion is a good idea.

 

[vitona526]

Some of the shots make me think if you free the stone from the bezel/yellow gold, it might not look as warm. I have a warm color stone that looks very orangy in incandescent light, but pale yellow outside and in front of a window pale vanilla.

I still think the consistent body color I’m seeing with your diamond indicates a warmer stone but I do see photos where the tint is not as noticeable, if at all. And it’s fiery.

Also, girdle chips can be actual chips due to an unfortunate event in the cutting process, which in old times, didn’t make the stone unwearable or unbeautiful. Second girdle flea bites are a to be expected part of cutting the girdle in antique stones, because they were hand bruted.

Some PSers used to write about rehabbing the entire girdle because they didn’t like the flea bites. I would never do that. Most people don’t notice tiny imperfections on such a stone, once it’s set. But everyone is different in their tastes and tolerances. What I’m saying is flea bites and tiny chips or Naturals on the girdle are completely typical. Rarer are large chips running down the pavilion which also were due to cutting.

Taking it to an experienced jeweler for a second opinion is a good idea.

Thank you! So much wonderful knowledge, lightbright! The rough edges, flea bits would be ok. Nothing that limits me to a bezel.

 

[Dreamer_D]

The cut on this diamond is superb, you really won't find better. Its the classic OEC cut that everyone in chasing.

My first thought about color is it is likely MN-OP. Its possible the mounting is affecting color. In my experience yellow gold settings absolutely make a stone look more tinted. But the bezel is white metal. And the stone still looks very tinted. I don't care about color from an aesthetic perspective. Its a gorgeous stone and cut is king. It also looks very clean clarity wise. There aren't any cavities or other surface reaching inclusion on the face which is nice. It is very unlikely the girdle is pristine. Like @LightBright said, girdles in these old gals are often rough, not from damage, but just from rudimentary tools and different cut priorities -- like they often leave naturals and cavities no the girdles whereas today those might be cut away, for overall loss in carat weight. Anyway, it doesn't look like there are any massive nasty chips but you never knowwwwwwwww! This is the risk with bezels.

I love it and say you should keep it. Even if its not a mad "deal", the cut is perfect and you could shop for years to find it again. If the girdle is funky just set it in a bezel or collet and enjoy.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Unless I am mistaken, in both these images I can actually see the girdle peeking up above the bezel, and if thats the case, then it is a super thick bruted girdle which bodes well for the condition of the rest.

 

[vitona526]

The cut on this diamond is superb, you really won't find better. Its the classic OEC cut that everyone in chasing.

My first thought about color is it is likely MN-OP. Its possible the mounting is affecting color. In my experience yellow gold settings absolutely make a stone look more tinted. But the bezel is white metal. And the stone still looks very tinted. I don't care about color from an aesthetic perspective. Its a gorgeous stone and cut is king. It also looks very clean clarity wise. There aren't any cavities or other surface reaching inclusion on the face which is nice. It is very unlikely the girdle is pristine. Like @LightBright said, girdles in these old gals are often rough, not from damage, but just from rudimentary tools and different cut priorities -- like they often leave naturals and cavities no the girdles whereas today those might be cut away, for overall loss in carat weight. Anyway, it doesn't look like there are any massive nasty chips but you never knowwwwwwwww! This is the risk with bezels.

I love it and say you should keep it. Even if its not a mad "deal", the cut is perfect and you could shop for years to find it again. If the girdle is funky just set it in a bezel or collet and enjoy.

Suberb?! Ha! I was hoping you’d respond. I value every PSer opinion but I know you and @lovedogs are not afraid to tell me point blank that my baby is ugly. And I am grateful for it! Superb, wow.

Re - the girdle, there is a silver toned cylinder holding the diamond. It is covered in (what appears to be - see photo) a thin layer of gold which has worn off in some areas. In the 1st photo, it’s the rim of the cylinder/bezel you are seeing. In the second photo that may very well be the girdle. Good eye!!!! I’m going to quit with the loupe and wait to see the jeweler. Thank you!

 

[vitona526]

 

[Dreamer_D]

Geez that setting is ugly. I bet it’s from the 70s it just has that kind of vibe.

I was looking at your pictures again and realized the comparison diamonds are colorless/near colorless. I’m that case maybe it is less tinted? No way to know until it’s loose!

 

[SparklieBug]

The cut on this diamond is *chef's kiss* perfection, to my eye. Congrats on a lovely diamond. You're fortunate that the setting is so...undesirable...as it likely kept people away.

 

[Ibrakeforpossums]

Such a GREAT thread. You're going to wind up with something wonderful.

 

[Dreamer_D]

I keep thinking about that setting. Am I crazy or did they insert a bezel into a raw gold nugget??