Please Help me with the scope image!

[jes3874]

F VS1 3ex 2.01 ct crown angle 35 pavilion angle 40.8 table size 58% HCA = 1.0

I am new to this so please correct me if I am wrong. I understand the heart cleft and symmetry is not on point. I also think there is huge light leakage on ideal scope and ASET image. Would you consider this ideal or super ideal cut? or is this just a little better than average? Ultimately, is this diamond worth 30k? This is going to be a wedding ring and I really do not want to regret and make sure everything is 100% right before I pulled the trigger. Thank you in advance!

 

[tyty333]

No stone with "huge" leakage is going to make Super Ideal classification. We reserve this category for Stones that
fall into AGS000, H&As with all the images to prove that they are excellent performers. While you do have all
the images that are needed to check out the stone you can see that there is some leakage (I wouldn't call it
huge). It also would not pass H&A by Super Ideal standards.

Do you have any links to a video of it?

I'll take this 2 carat Super Ideal for $30k

Diamond | 1.992 ct G VS1 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 3872125

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 1.992 carat G color VS1 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 3872125

www.whiteflash.com

 

[jes3874]

No stone with "huge" leakage is going to make Super Ideal classification. We reserve this category for Stones that
fall into AGS000, H&As with all the images to prove that they are excellent performers. While you do have all
the images that are needed to check out the stone you can see that there is some leakage (I wouldn't call it
huge). It also would not pass H&A by Super Ideal standards.

Do you have any links to a video of it?

I'll take this 2 carat Super Ideal for $30k

Diamond | 1.992 ct G VS1 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 3872125

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 1.992 carat G color VS1 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 3872125

www.whiteflash.com

Thank you for your response!

2.01 Carat Round Natural Diamond | Rare Carat®

2.01 Carat Round Natural Diamond | Rare Carat®

www.rarecarat.com

This link has 360 view of the stone.

Just to clarify, when you said you will take "this" super ideal stone for 30k, does that mean you will take it because it is super ideal or you would take it if it were a super ideal?

 

[lovedogs]

Thank you for your response!

2.01 Carat Round Natural Diamond | Rare Carat®

2.01 Carat Round Natural Diamond | Rare Carat®

www.rarecarat.com

This link has 360 view of the stone.

Just to clarify, when you said you will take "this" super ideal stone for 30k, does that mean you will take it because it is super ideal or you would take it if it were a super ideal?

They mean that the whiteflash stone is actually super ideal so that's what they would buy

 

[lovedogs]

The stone you linked isnt a super ideal, nor is it a true h&a. For 30k I think you can find something better (like the one tyty posted )

 

[musicloveranthony]

The stone you shared certainly isn't the worst I've seen. It's not even especially bad. Unfortunately it isn't the best, nor especially great. I think there are better options for the cost

 

[jes3874]

The stone you shared certainly isn't the worst I've seen. It's not even especially bad. Unfortunately it isn't the best, nor especially great. I think there are better options for the cost

What are your thoughts on this one?

2.14 Carat round diamond

This True Hearts TM diamond, 2.14 carat F color vs2 clarity has ideal proportions and a diamond grading report from GIA

www.jamesallen.com

Would you go with this one over my first choice?

 

[musicloveranthony]

What are your thoughts on this one?

2.14 Carat round diamond

This True Hearts TM diamond, 2.14 carat F color vs2 clarity has ideal proportions and a diamond grading report from GIA

www.jamesallen.com

Would you go with this one over my first choice?

If you look at the imaging of that stone - especially the "Hearts" view it looks like that dark inclusion bounces around visually a lot within the stone. I think that Whiteflash stone posted above would be a great option

 

[lovedogs]

What are your thoughts on this one?

2.14 Carat round diamond

This True Hearts TM diamond, 2.14 carat F color vs2 clarity has ideal proportions and a diamond grading report from GIA

www.jamesallen.com

Would you go with this one over my first choice?

I dont like this one. Its wonky in places. I wouldnt go with either to be honest

 

[jes3874]

I dont like this one. Its wonky in places. I wouldnt go with either to be honest

Is there a way I can get 2 ct super ideal cut F VS2 with 30,000 budget? I really do not want to compromise that ct size color and clarity tbh maybe clarity. What are my best option if I couldnt? Really really appreciate the help.

 

[lovedogs]

Is there a way I can get 2 ct super ideal cut F VS2 with 30,000 budget? I really do not want to compromise that ct size color and clarity tbh maybe clarity. What are my best option if I couldnt? Really really appreciate the help.

I almost guarantee that cut will be more visible to you/the wearer than color or clarity (within reason). An eye clean SI1/G is going to look as good as an F/VS2 (assuming the cut is as good and the SI1 inclusions arent awful).

This stone is exactly the same size as 2ct, G color (will look colorless), and eye clean. I honestly dont think you can do better than this for your budget.

Diamond | 1.992 ct G VS1 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 3872125

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 1.992 carat G color VS1 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 3872125

www.whiteflash.com

 

[lovedogs]

If you MUST have F+ and VS2+ (which, as above, I dont think is the best plan), then this one is better than the other options you posted.

2.00 Carat round diamond

This 2 carat round diamond E color vs2 clarity has Ideal proportions and a diamond grading report from AGS

www.jamesallen.com

 

[musicloveranthony]

If you MUST have F+ and VS2+ (which, as above, I dont think is the best plan), then this one is better than the other options you posted.

2.00 Carat round diamond

This 2 carat round diamond E color vs2 clarity has Ideal proportions and a diamond grading report from AGS

www.jamesallen.com

I agree with you that the 1.99 G is going to look measurably better in almost every regard than a stone microscopically larger and nearly imperceptibly lower in color. That 2.00 is probably the best for the price but I'd expect it to always look "dirty" or a little grimy based on where and what the inclusions are.

If I had $30k to spend (a boy can dream), I would happily sacrifice an imperceptible 0.008ct rather than sacrifice quality that I'm entirely confident will be both perceptible and notable

 

[jes3874]

If you MUST have F+ and VS2+ (which, as above, I dont think is the best plan), then this one is better than the other options you posted.

2.00 Carat round diamond

This 2 carat round diamond E color vs2 clarity has Ideal proportions and a diamond grading report from AGS

www.jamesallen.com

I agree with you that the 1.99 G is going to look measurably better in almost every regard than a stone microscopically larger and nearly imperceptibly lower in color. That 2.00 is probably the best for the price but I'd expect it to always look "dirty" or a little grimy based on where and what the inclusions are.

If I had $30k to spend (a boy can dream), I would happily sacrifice an imperceptible 0.008ct rather than sacrifice quality that I'm entirely confident will be both perceptible and notable

I appreciate all your recommendation. I understand now why y'all recommend that G stone. It just due to my cultural preference I would prefer GIA over AGS. If you are not bothered, would you recommend any GIA stone within my budget (of any color or clarity)? It must be difficult because they do not provide scope image but just wonder if you could quick search.

Also I understand that you all already help me so much so I will be just grateful if above recommendation is the best I got. Thank you again.

 

[musicloveranthony]

It just due to my cultural preference I would prefer GIA over AGS

Understood since the vendor owns the stone, they could also have the stone graded by GIA for a fee.

Otherwise, this stone is clean from inclusions and very white. I believe that it's the price it is because it has some internal graining. I would be interested to see whether that affects the way the stone looks in person; it is hard to tell from the video

2.00 Carat round diamond

This True Hearts TM diamond, 2 carat E color vs1 clarity has ideal proportions and a diamond grading report from GIA

www.jamesallen.com

 

[lovedogs]

I appreciate all your recommendation. I understand now why y'all recommend that G stone. It just due to my cultural preference I would prefer GIA over AGS. If you are not bothered, would you recommend any GIA stone within my budget (of any color or clarity)? It must be difficult because they do not provide scope image but just wonder if you could quick search.

Also I understand that you all already help me so much so I will be just grateful if above recommendation is the best I got. Thank you again.

You can ask WF to get it GIA graded (for a fee). It is seriously so much better than the other options

 

[jes3874]

Understood since the vendor owns the stone, they could also have the stone graded by GIA for a fee.

You can ask WF to get it GIA graded (for a fee). It is seriously so much better than the other options

I think I am leaning toward to do this. I hope the fee is not crazy haha. Thank you!!!

 

[musicloveranthony]

This one might also be worth looking at. I'm not the proportion expert, but visually it looks like it could be good

2.03 Carat Round Diamond D-3NIE0ADI82 | Ritani

2.03 Carat Round Earth Diamond ID Cut G Color VVS1 Clarity with diamond report lab GIA

www.ritani.com

 

[musicloveranthony]

I think I am leaning toward to do this. I hope the fee is not crazy haha. Thank you!!!

I genuinely think this is your best option. The GIA website says it would cost $189. VERY worth it

 

[lovedogs]

If you need GIA and can go down in color, this is an option

Diamond | 2.05 ct H VS2 Premium Select Round Cut Loose Diamond GIA Certified | 4526943

This fabulous 2.05 carat Round Excellent cut diamond has a clarity grade of VS2 and color grade of H.It is an excellent choice for diamond engagement rings or other fine diamond jewelry. | 4526943

www.whiteflash.com

I still stand by the fact that the G is better, but heres an alternative.

 

[jes3874]

If you need GIA and can go down in color, this is an option

Diamond | 2.05 ct H VS2 Premium Select Round Cut Loose Diamond GIA Certified | 4526943

This fabulous 2.05 carat Round Excellent cut diamond has a clarity grade of VS2 and color grade of H.It is an excellent choice for diamond engagement rings or other fine diamond jewelry. | 4526943

www.whiteflash.com

I still stand by the fact that the G is better, but heres an alternative.

Just found out WF has upgrade policy with ACA purchase. This was a huge deal breaker for me. I think I am gonna go with ACA and prob upgrade it later.

 

[lovedogs]

Just found out WF has upgrade policy with ACA purchase. This was a huge deal breaker for me. I think I am gonna go with ACA and prob upgrade it later.

Yup. They have an amazing upgrade program for all of their in house stones

 

[sledge]

Remember, cut is what matters the most. If the diamond don't do the sparkle dance, no one is happy. Simply stated, super ideals like the WF ACA are cut for maximum beauty and sparkle.

Also, before you get too wound up on size, I want you to see this.

A screen cap of the original stone you inquired about. Technically "larger" at 2.01 carats but only in weight. Look at the dimensions -- 8.06 x 8.08, or 8.07mm average diameter.

Now look at the WF ACA dimensions -- the "smaller" 1.992 carat stone measures -- 8.05 x 8.07, or 8.06mm average diameter.

That is a difference of 0.01mm. Or 0.000393701 inches. Literally this difference is so small it cannot be seen with the naked eye. But how small? In the US, you might hear of these fractions of an inch:

1/4th = 0.25 inches
1/8th = 0.125 inches
1/16th = 0.0625 inches
1/32nd = 0.03125 inches
1/64th = 0.015625 inches
1/128th = 0.0078125 inches

Well this is going to take a while, so we will use backwards math to find the correct scale:

0.000393701 / 1 = 2,540. Yup, that's right.....1/2,540th of an inch.

Or in other words....NO difference.

My point? Don't get hung up on carat weight. It is an absolute poor metric in measuring diamond size. The reasoning is simple, mathematically carat weight is derived from the following formula:

length x width x height x 0.0061 = carat weight

The proportions of each stone (table size, depth, crown angle, pavilion angle, girdle thickness, etc) all help determine how the weight of the stone gets distributed. For instance a stone with larger table is typically shorter and will be short & squatty in comparison. Not only does it change the light behavior of the stone, but it pushes out the diameter of the stone making it slightly larger for it's carat weight. On the flip side, "steep deep" diamonds commonly have smaller tables, more depth, steep crowns and steep pavilions so the diamond is taller & more skinny. It will leak light worse but also the weight is in the vertical plane so the stone will look small for it's carat weight. Then you have stones that are cut ideally for beauty with a balance of good proportions. This yields the best light performance, edge to edge brightness and balances the weight of the stone more evenly so the stone looks like it's actual carat weight.

I will also note that when a stone gets this close to 2 carats that many cutters will "cheat" a bit to hit that magic carat weight of 2.00+ carats. Why? The simple answer is money. While there is no appreciable difference in diameter between a 1.99 and 2.01 stone, there is a dollar difference in what it can be sold for on the open market.

Finding a super ideal 1.992 stone is like getting a unicorn. They are VERY hard to come by because you essentially get a 2 carat stone for a little bit of a savings. I'd be all over that stone if I were you.

 

[jes3874]

Finding a super ideal 1.992 stone is like getting a unicorn. They are VERY hard to come by because you essentially get a 2 carat stone for a little bit of a savings. I'd be all over that stone if I were you.

I appreciate your insight! I did not realize that they only have 0.03mm difference in size. I was too caught up with the carat size. And yeah I am gonna go with ACA most likely. Like I mentioned above upgrade policy is too good to miss. Not to mention, quality is way better than my first one.

Just out of curiosity, my first one also has pretty good proportion based on HCA score and white flash ACA criteria (https://www.whiteflash.com/a-cut-above-diamonds/specifications-and-qualifications/). I wonder why such a big discrepancy in actual ideal scope image between first one and ACA G color one.

 

[sledge]

Just out of curiosity, my first one also has pretty good proportion based on HCA score and white flash ACA criteria (https://www.whiteflash.com/a-cut-above-diamonds/specifications-and-qualifications/). I wonder why such a big discrepancy in actual ideal scope image between first one and ACA G color one.

There are a few factors at play.

1. The HCA is a good elimination tool to help narrow potential stones. It uses the data on the lab report to make some broad assumptions about angle relationships and possible light performance. That is also its limitation. A modern round brilliant (MRB) has 57 facets, or 58 if there is a culet. Not only is it missing all facet info but it is also limited to exactly what the lab report says. So while HCA tells us it falls in a range of potential acceptability, it takes further research to confirm the stone is indeed a good performer.

2. Expanding on lab reports and facets, keep in mind the two most critical are the crown angle and pavilion angle. In reality there are 8 of both, which make up 16 of the 57 facets. However the lab reports show a single value for each. In the case of GIA reports this means they measure all 8 angles, average them together and then round crowns to the nearest 0.5 degree and pavilions to the nearest 0.2 degree. While this may seem trivial, the reality is that the specific way each of those 8 crowns and 8 pavilions align with each other make a significant difference. For instance the idealscope you provided in your initial post doesn’t provide us numerical values for each crown/pavilion relationship but we can see graphically they work well for most the diamond with nice solid red until you hit the 7 o’clock region and you get some leakage.

While it is possible to get a detailed Sarine report with all the values, it’s not common. So the images are very critical in determine true performance and symmetry.

I might add that many who value cut quality prefer AGS lab reports because they are more precise. For instance they do a 3D scan of the stone and average the crowns and pavilions but do not round them. This gives a more accurate picture. Additionally with the 3D scan they can produce a computer generated ASET based on all 57 facets actual data to show light performance and they print it on the lab report.

GIA and AGS merged 12/2022 so the amount of AGS reports available are very limited. It’s sad in a way. However, GIA offers a “light performance addendum” that shows the light performance grading and computer generated ASET but doesn’t get as precise on the proportions. Given the choice I would choose AGS and thankful my wife’s stone has an AGS lab report as well.

Hopefully you can see how all this comes back to proportions and HCA not telling the entire story. Harsh reality is each diamond has minor nuances in cut quality and those proportions don’t always identify the nuances but our eyes and advanced images like idealscope, ASET and H&A images help pinpoint imperfections. IMO, the greatest value of buying a super ideal is all the data you get to know you are buying a guaranteed performer.

Oh yeah and in regards to the upgrade program, WF has one of the best and most generous. Simply trade for a stone of equal or greater value and you get 100% of your original price towards the new stone. No other strings or catches. JA requires you spend 2X the money each time you upgrade. That can be very limiting. Also, WF has a deeper inventory than most super ideal vendors making it easier to trade also which some people aren’t aware.

 

[DejaWiz]

Hello and welcome to PriceScope, jes3874!
The others are spot on: that 1.992 Whiteflash ACA is an absolute unicorn standing over the pot of gold at the end of a rainbow kind of diamond: you're getting the same physical dimensions as any other well cut and proportioned 2 carat, but for a heck of a bargain price when you fully consider that every ACA is custom cut to extremely strict criteria then further assessed with a plethora of human vetting and validating to ensure that it meets Whiteflash ACA standards ...and it's all ISO 9001 compliant for quality assurance. You'll be getting the absolute best optical performance that can be attained with the modern round brilliant shape.
Please contact Whiteflash and put this diamond on hold/reserve as soon as possible so that you don't miss out on it to one of the thousands of anonymous daily visitors here that would eagerly snipe it away from you.

 

[jes3874]

Hello and welcome to PriceScope, jes3874!
The others are spot on: that 1.992 Whiteflash ACA is an absolute unicorn standing over the pot of gold at the end of a rainbow kind of diamond: you're getting the same physical dimensions as any other well cut and proportioned 2 carat, but for a heck of a bargain price when you fully consider that every ACA is custom cut to extremely strict criteria then further assessed with a plethora of human vetting and validating to ensure that it meets Whiteflash ACA standards ...and it's all ISO 9001 compliant for quality assurance. You'll be getting the absolute best optical performance that can be attained with the modern round brilliant shape.
Please contact Whiteflash and put this diamond on hold/reserve as soon as possible so that you don't miss out on it to one of the thousands of anonymous daily visitors here that would eagerly snipe it away from you.

I reserved the stone after seeing this . I am sending it to GIA because I would like to have GIA cert + AGS report is from 2017. They have looked at the stone and told me that it will most likely result same 4c's but maybe "faint" in fluorescence, which I am fine unless it's medium.