Poll. % $ difference unheated +%ct fine blue sapphires from Ceylon or Madagascar?

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

What would be the % price difference (if any) between +5ct unheated un treated fine blue sapphires from Ceylon / Sri Lanka and Madagascar?

Given that Ceylon / Sri Lanka and Madagascar were once joined at the hip, and the blue sapphires have same or similar origin.
Given that Sri Lankan's travel to other countries to buy rough that they 'rebrand' as Ceylon.

 

[fredflintstone]

None really.

Lot of Madagascar Sapphires are represented as Sri Lanakan. Sri Lanka does not produce like it use to and the Sri Lankans go over to Madagascar and buy rough and sale as Celyon.

So I guess you could say Ceylon is more expensive when you are really getting Madgascar.

 

[Bron357]

To me anyway, I don’t see what big difference “location” makes, especially seeing as most reports indicate it’s just an “opinion” not rock solid definite proof.
if I were buying a large unheated blue sapphire I would be buying it for its colour, the colour I prefer, clarity because sometimes they are “sleepy” if unheated and shape because I have a preference for round or cushion shape.
where it came from would be at the bottom of the list.
if it’s not Kashmir or Burmese, plenty would say any other location doesnt matter!
sure I’ve seen Kashmir and Burmese sapphires that take your breath away but I’ve also seen Kashmir and Burmese origin sapphire that were “bleh”.

 

[chroman]

Are you asking what the market does or what we’d do?

If the two look similar - I’d buy the cheaper one.

If they look different, I’d buy on looks.

Origin, meh.

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

......I think this question is above my pay grade

 

[slksapphire]

dick hughes' essay on sapphire origin is one of the best i've ever read:

sapphire-connoisseurship — PalaMinerals

m.palaminerals.com

for whatever reason, the "market" places a premium on ceylon origin. if you had two stones that looked exactly alike, the one from ceylon would be more highly valued than the one from madagascar. because some/many people value the origin.

 

[dk168]

Staying on topics of locations and prices - the Kashmiri Sapphire incident still haunts me to this day!

As @Daisys and Diamonds said, it is above my pay grade!

DK

 

[Karl_K]

Where it came from depends on if one is buying or selling.

 

[Nosean]

Same quality same price. Sri Lanka and Madagaskar both produce gorgeous qualities. Should have the same price level.

 

[fredflintstone]

dick hughes' essay on sapphire origin is one of the best i've ever read:

sapphire-connoisseurship — PalaMinerals

m.palaminerals.com

for whatever reason, the "market" places a premium on ceylon origin. if you had two stones that looked exactly alike, the one from ceylon would be more highly valued than the one from madagascar. because some/many people value the origin.

This is true, and that is why the Sri Lankans will pass off Madagascar material as Ceylon.

 

[LD]

Very little because a top of the range sapphire can cone from any locality. Lots of labs won’t report on origin. In my experience, people will buy on colour, cut and size.

 

[LilAlex]

My understanding is that there is a significant origin premium (maybe 30%?) that diminishes as the quality of the stone increases. At the very highest end -- and there are some amazing Madagascars that rival or are virtually lab-indistinguishable from Kashmir -- the delta is probably nonexistent. I don't know where your 5-ct "fine" is along that spectrum since that is such a loaded term.

That said, between two untreated sapphires, I would always choose the better-looking one irrespective of origin. But then again I'm a consumer and not a reseller.

 

[voce]

My understanding is that there is a significant origin premium (maybe 30%?) that diminishes as the quality of the stone increases. At the very highest end -- and there are some amazing Madagascars that rival or are virtually lab-indistinguishable from Kashmir -- the delta is probably nonexistent. I don't know where your 5-ct "fine" is along that spectrum since that is such a loaded term.

That said, between two untreated sapphires, I would always choose the better-looking one irrespective of origin. But then again I'm a consumer and not a reseller.

Origin premium diminishes as quality increases? Untrue as far as I know.

In fact, to me it appears to be the opposite. If the stone is crap, no one cares what the origin is = no premium for origin.

At the highest quality, that's where the origin plays more of a role. I haven't seen non-Burmese rubies auction at the same prices of Burmese, nor Kashmiri sapphires compared to Madagascar.

The premium on the origin is due to the fact that you can no longer expect a large size fine quality stone to be mounted anymore from those origin (Mogok, Kashmir). Any stones of size and quality (or just even one, not both) are by definition antiques and rare. Although Madagascar or Ceylon can offer the same visual quality, those stones can still be mined, as in the mines are still producing done quality sapphires, so there's no premium because there's more available to sell.

Think of it as a rarity premium and not solely an ignorant judgment on origin, and things will make more sense.

 

[LilAlex]

At the highest quality, that's where the origin plays more of a role. I haven't seen non-Burmese rubies auction at the same prices of Burmese, nor Kashmiri sapphires compared to Madagascar.

My comment was in response to Ceylon vs Madagascar.

I did not even consider poor-quality stones.

I've been told be a reliable expert often quoted here that the Ceylon vs Madagascar premium is quite small at the highest end.

Kashmir and Burma origin were not part of the original question. I did note that some top Madagascar are virtually lab-indistinguishable from Kashmir -- i.e., remarkably high quality -- so that may have caused confusion. I was not saying that there is no Kashmir origin premium (there is) because that was not the question.

 

[voce]

@LilAlex ok sorry, I guess I was reading the post out of context. I agree that there should be no premium difference between Madagascar and Ceylon.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

I think we can say that any premium is in the eye of a willing buyer or a seller.
It appears there are labs in Sri Lanka that are more than happy to "if in doubt" about origin - call the stone Ceylon / Sri Lankan

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

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