Possibly pulling the trigger on a ruby, come and help me decide!

[Avondale]

Okay so. This might be long. Forgive me for it, I'm excited.

I've been stalking this ruby for forever. Seeing how prices have been skyrocketing, I've been wanting to get it for months but only now have the free funds. And there's also the concern that I probably won't be able to find another that is like this one and at that price. It's 1,75ct at a smidgen over 1500 euro. I adore the colour.

It's currently on hold for me, so I can freely share the link: https://www.etsy.com/listing/1057625824/on-hold-natural-ruby-175ct-standard-heat

The stone is GFCO certified as heated with minor residues and I have received a photo of the certificate. I know what minor residues mean and I'm okay with it. I'm wondering if it makes sense to have the stone certified a second time by either AIGS or Lotus. I also have no idea which of these two to choose.

The seller sent me a couple of additional photos when I put it on hold and I'm sharing those:

I'm also expecting more photos in different light and I'll share them when I receive them. The listing says the ruby is redder than the photos show but in these two above it is definitely more towards raspberry. I am completely okay with that as I actually prefer it to be pink rather than red.

So, tell me what you think and if I'm missing something. Are there any other questions I need to still ask?

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

Get it!!!!!! Geeeeet it!!!!!!

I think it's beautiful and the price is very reasonable!!!

I love the color! Even in the shade it looks lovely! And in the sun it's stunning!!!!

Do it!!!!!!

Re reports: I'm a bit of a cheapskate and at the price I probably wouldn't spend the money on an extra report but it's really your personal preference.

When I first started into the world of CS I was like: omg must get one of the bigger name reports for everything!!!! Now at the right price, with the right existing report, I don't particularly want to shell out an extra $200!

Get it!!!!!!

 

[VividRed]

I don’t want to spoil the party, but is is going to look dull in all but direct sunlight.

That’s why the price is low. It is not a bargain, it is fairly retail priced.

you seem excited so why don’t you get it and return it if not in love with it?

 

[VividRed]

If I may add, don’t buy based on fear of missing out

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

OP if you love it, buy it! You mentioned you've been stalking it for months you must really like it.

If you have doubts ask the vendor for more pictures.

PS is extremely useful in some instances but also full of armchair experts! Heck I'm an armchair amateur myself.

I was doing some research today and stumbled upon a thread where the OP missed out on what I would consider a beautiful stone because of some over the top hand wringing advice. So buy what you love! You know as much as anyone!

Or don't buy if you have doubts but don't take advice from randoms on the internet seriously. I would never get anything done if I posted everything for a PS dissection.

ETA: I usually ask for:

1. Daylight photo in the shade
2. Photo in office lighting
3. Photo in office lighting under a desk
4. Photo in most unflattering lighting possible (funny story about a Jade vendor who shone a mustard yellow light onto the bangle in the dark to create the worst lighting that she could!)

 

[Avondale]

@mellowyellowgirl You're hyping me up even further! I take the fact you didn't call it a snot as a very good sign.

@VividRed Fairly priced for what it is is all I care about. That's why I'm asking here, because you folks have seen a lot more rubies than I have and are better equipped to make that judgement than I am. I like the way it looks even when not shot in sunlight. Maybe it's dull, objectively. But I don't really need it to sparkle in the first place. I know what I like doesn't really align with what is considered high-quality, but that's okay because I get to afford it.

I don't think it's FOMO in that case. I try to be very aware of that and I skipped out on two 10% sales on this stone because I didn't want to make that mistake. It's more a matter of, I've been considering it for so long that at this point I'm fairly confident that I'll regret it if I don't get it.

Re: certificate
I studied the one it already has and read the additional information on the GFCO website. They describe it as "standard heat" with minor residues, with the additional information that what is present are "residues/filling in cracks and/or cavities and/or surface cavities and possibly healed fissures and small fissures". Just for comparison, the other option is to have residues only in healed fissures and small fissures.

GFCO doesn't do LIBS testing, but when they consider it possible that the stone is treated with additional elements to improve colour, they call it just "heat" or "light element heat".

Technically AIGS can do LIBS, but I'm not sure it's really needed. This is a pink stone, not even a hint of orange, and @mellowyellowgirl might be totally right, maybe the GFCO certificate is adequate and enough at this price point.

Some extra information from the seller regarding clarity: the stone is eye clean (I think eye clean in this case means "looking at it at an arm's length" rather than" stare up closely"), but there are some crystal inclusions and some very very slight feather. Sounds like nothing concerning here, right?

Ok, time for the additional photos and videos I received:







This is low-light and the most meh of them all:

https://imgur.com/rQr0hIN

I don't find it utterly ugly.

Indoor light and it shows the inclusions pretty well:

https://imgur.com/6zEQlkz

Daylight shade:

https://imgur.com/FMHVxG7

And sunlight which is according to my tastes:

https://imgur.com/wb4oClh

It does seem to have a tiny window or maybe a tilt window, but it doesn't bother me. The colour more than compensates for it.

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

I really like it under daylight shade too!!! Sunlight is fabulous obviously!!!

Hehe I once asked a vendor if a stone would go black and they were like: No but if you turn all the lights off and you're sitting in the dark .... It'll be.... dark

 

[Rfisher]

Sounds like you’ve already asked yourself (and the vendor) all the right questions for your own.

The only thing I can suggest - is if there’s an open cavity on the pavilion, would that bug you? If so - ask for underside pictures as well.
( I had that happen with a ruby from Wildfish - it encircled a good amount of the pavilion. Is that a risk? Idk but I didn’t like it especially undisclosed. And FWIW that stone, too, always photod much much lighter pink -and more translucent too - than what it was IRL- a deeper more red .)

Excited for you - can’t wait to ‘see’ it!

 

[Avondale]

The only thing I can suggest - is if there’s an open cavity on the pavilion, would that bug you? If so - ask for underside pictures as well.

Oooh, I did! My jeweler told me once before that he's very wary of buying stones online based on pictures of the crown alone because their pavilions are sometimes cut so poorly it's a nightmare to set them. So now I made note to ask specifically.

I have a separate picture and a video of the pavilion (just haven't uploaded because they're boring), it looks perfectly fine and well centred. A nice fat bottom, typical for a CS.

 

[Mreader]

Just adding that if they did a 10% off in the past then maybe you can ask for that discount. Is it returnable in case you don’t like it irl?

 

[CaseyLouLou]

My only concern is that you want it to be more pink than red and if it’s really red as stated with no noticeable pink then you might not like it.

 

[Rfisher]

I’d think there’s still be plenty of pink in it.
Environmental lighting between Thailand and where @Avondale is (you stated euros?) is another consideration.

Would you have time to link some stones for sale that are in this same look/treatment category, @VividRed , that’s more of a bargain price?

 

[Avondale]

Just adding that if they did a 10% off in the past then maybe you can ask for that discount. Is it returnable in case you don’t like it irl?

I might ask for the discount, yes.

I still haven't cleared up the refund/return process, which is something I'll do prior to ordering. But I have to say, I don't plan to return it simply because I don't like it. I'm importing in the EU, so the VAT alone that I'll have to pay, plus all the hurdles of delivery here and possibly back make it very much not feasible. Thus I have to plan for liking it, not liking it is not an option.

Of course things like missing/stolen or damaged package will be talked through before I pay. I consider this conversation a mere formality so I've left it for later.

My only concern is that you want it to be more pink than red and if it’s really red as stated with no noticeable pink then you might not like it.

To be fair, after I saw the additional photos and videos I very much doubt it would go into the orangish-red category I don't particularly fancy. Besides, it wasn't too long ago that this sub-forum saw plentiful discussions on what "pure red" is and we all saw how that went.

Also, the certificate describes it as "vivid pinkish red". There should be sufficient pink to satisfy my cravings.

Environmental lighting between Thailand and where @Avondale is (you stated euros?) is another consideration.

I'm not located in the places that get mostly dreary weather. Lots of sunlight here, even now as I write this.

While on the subject, here's a funny fact. Second half of January I spent 4000km north of where I live. The sun rose just above the horizon for about 4 hours a day. And while there was some difference in the way my sapphires looked, it wasn't as drastic as I initially expected. It was a fun exercise, though. Gotta post pictures of it sometime.

 

[VividRed]

I say give it a try and see it in person, there’s really no other way. Assuming you can return it, that is.

I’ve been buying rubies for 4 years and have seen a few. This ruby looks good on photo in some lights but it won’t be the same in person. 1.5k for a 1.8 carat ruby is less than 1k/ct. and in Rubyland that means something.

I am not even commenting on color because it is completely subjective - and you said you like some pink, so there’s that. My issue is with how it will perform. Lack or sparkle is common in ruby, but is not the same as being dull. I fear this one will look dull.

Just my opinion, of course

 

[VividRed]

I’d think there’s still be plenty of pink in it.
Environmental lighting between Thailand and where @Avondale is (you stated euros?) is another consideration.

Would you have time to link some stones for sale that are in this same look/treatment category, @VividRed , that’s more of a bargain price?

I don’t think there are bargains in ruby. Anything with decent color, clarity and without a window will be priced at market. Below that is poor commercial grade.

The stone posted by OP is fairly priced I think

 

[VividRed]

Try to inquire about this one, unheated and likely not much more expensive. I think it will perform significantly better

 

[Avondale]

This ruby looks good on photo in some lights but it won’t be the same in person.

I am doing my best to mentally account for that. My experience is limited to a ring I purchased from another PSer not too long ago. There will always be some difference in colour simply due to the way camera sensors see and how this information is transmitted on differently calibrated screens. And in that case there was a difference as well. It was still beautiful, of course.

My issue is with how it will perform. Lack or sparkle is common in ruby, but is not the same as being dull.

I'll admit I can't quite understand or imagine that. Comes with lack of sufficient experience, I guess. But it would really help me if you can show me some examples to help me visualise. I imagine one would be the stone you posted. Is it a matter of clarity, with one being more hazy and thus dull?

I took your advice and sent an inquiry... I think. Their website didn't give me a confirmation, only a captcha error message, so I can't be certain the request was successfully received after I sent it. We'll see, I guess. My only concern is what you probably view as "not much more expensive" might push me out of my comfort zone. I'm definitely not willing to up the budget by a third, for example.

 

[Rfisher]

 

[Avondale]

Thanks!

No.

 

[Rfisher]

Gem2000 is trade only.
If you as a consumer hit an inquiry - idk if they funnel you to one of their distributors or not?
Pearlmans is only one of their online distributors but they are an easy lookup.

Pearlmans runs sales periodically so their pricing reflects that.
You may find it cheaper online listed elsewhere.
AfricaGems has it listed higher but they might offer a higher discount/sale as well.

 

[Avondale]

More and more I’m becoming further convinced I’m sticking with the Etsy seller Autumn in New England has had a positive experience with.

 

[ItsMainelyYou]

Yeah, good call.
This is a nice little ruby for the price. I see a lot of pink and a very wisp hint of purple. The red video is under some very golden sun. It's going to look pinkish red for you almost always. The 'golden hour' will become your favorite part of the day. It is for me
The discount would be a nice bonus.
Rubies glow, they don't sparkle.
*If you want sparkle you'll want spinel or a hot pink sapphire.

 

[ShinyPink]

@Avondale If you ever see a stone on Gem2000, most likely it will be for sale at Pearlman's as above, or AfricaGems. AfricaGems currently has 25% off, but even so it's almost double the ruby you're looking at.

If you love it, do it. I've bought enough stones to know that even the brightest stones per a seller's video, can look "meh" in person due to several factors. As long as it's an educated buy, do what makes your heart sing.

 

[VividRed]

Yeah well the price difference with the one I posted is significant, I agree.

The one you are going to buy is a fissure healed Mong Hsu ruby (Burma). I have two of them and they look better on camera than in person. I have them in the bank vault at the moment so I don’t have pictures to share right now. I will see of I can take the out in the next few days.

Agree that you should buy what you like, no question. But please make sure the vendor has a solid return policy, I didn’t see it mentioned in any of the messages above (might have missed it), and it’s so important when buying gems online!

Good luck

 

[Avondale]

AfricaGems currently has 25% off, but even so it's almost double the ruby you're looking at.

Exactly. At double the price, no discount can make up for it. It does drive a point home about rising prices, though... I bet even VividRed didn't expect such a price tag when he suggested it.

But please make sure the vendor has a solid return policy, I didn’t see it mentioned in any of the messages above (might have missed it)

It's a lot of text. In short, they do have a return policy, but: 1. the seller accepts exchanges; 2. customs, VAT and shipping costs would make it unfeasible for me to return simply because I don't like it. I have to like it. This is why I asked for so many pictures and videos, and I haven't even uploaded everything.
Refunds in case of stolen/lost/damaged item are something I'll discuss prior to paying but I consider it a formality more or less so I've left it for last.

 

[ShinyPink]

@Avondale Forgot to mention that during the Tucson show, I was shown unheated rubies that were approx $3-4000/ct. for good reds. This is double what I paid a few years ago.

No one needs to know it's filled, heated, whatever.

 

[VividRed]

. customs, VAT and shipping costs would make it unfeasible for me to return simply because I don't like it. I have to like it. This is why I asked for so many pictures and videos, and I haven't even uploaded everything.

You came asking for advice and I gave you mine, as honestly as I could. I stand by it but that’s really just my opinion.

However, not being able to return (or it being economically not viable) is a fat no-no for anything above a few hundred bucks. Especially if your budget is limited, as I understand it is, for this purchase.

 

[Avondale]

not being able to return (or it being economically not viable) is a fat no-no

I agree it's very much not an optimal situation. But the choices I have are very limited. The local market has neither the quantity nor the quality I would like to see (and I did look). The EU market as a whole is... well, there's a reason why none of you buy from it. Importing in the EU automatically means I lose some 20-25% of price I paid because I have to give it to the state (also means that a 1500 euro stone is now magically 1800-1900). And the state won't give it back when I return the stone to wherever it came from. Buy and return a stone twice, and half of your budget is blown.

Now if anyone can find me a magical solution to that problem that goes beyond "don't buy anything at all" or "take a significant financial risk", I would be eternally grateful. It would make my life so much easier.

Alas, life is not meant to be easy. I will discuss return policies. But even if the seller agrees to a simple return and refund, they are powerless to offset the financial loss I would be taking in the process.

 

[Avondale]

@Avondale Forgot to mention that during the Tucson show, I was shown unheated rubies that were approx $3-4000/ct. for good reds. This is double what I paid a few years ago.

Honestly? I'm not even surprised. I've seen the "fine rubies start at 10k/ct" statement repeated so often here in the past few months, I'm starting to doubt whether some of the gems available at the show weren't actually considered a "bargain". Only comparatively, of course.

 

[Rfisher]

The one you are going to buy is a fissure healed Mong Hsu ruby (Burma).

I’m quoting you, VR, but anyone who could answer and maybe point me to where it’s found online via a lab/expert publication would be great. as I’ve searched and failed.

Is a fissure healed Mong Hsu
that much different than any other ruby GIA reports on as heated/minor residues?
And if so - how come it doesn’t get a different designation? Do other labs treat it differently?

I’ve read all the Mong Hsu history stories. I’m just failing to find a concise answer?

Sorry for the derail @Avondale