Problem with Ideal Scope image?

[Bruce M]

I''ve been lurking here for several months. Now I have a question.

After getting educated here and elsewhere I purchased a loose diamond. I took it today for verification by an independent gemologist. He did a good job verifying everything I''d been told or shown about the diamond, which is a decent although modest stone (0.50 ct round brilliant cut). He gave me the stats on the rock without seeing the AGS certificate beforehand and they''re the same as the cert says. Those stats get a decent HCA score (Ex-Ex-Ex-VG, 1.3 over all). (And it looks good in person with lots of fire and contrast in ordinary room lighting and lots of sparkle under flourescent light.)

But the Ideal Scope image looked very different from what I expected. He told me not to worry about it.

The difference was this. On line I''d always seen arrows black and the rest red or pink in an ideal scope image. In fact the vendor sent me one by E-mail before I bought the diamond. It was a pretty good image which is one of the reasons I bought the rock.

When the gemologist showed it to me today the arrows were white not black, and the background was a pretty uniform shade of pink, not red. He said it''s a great diamond and not to worry about the Ideal Scope, which he didn''t seem very knowledgeable about. He didn''t sell me the diamond and knew what he was talking about with everything else, so I didn''t question it. Plus he had his next client waiting for him and was trying to get me out of his office.

So after thinking I''d never need to register except to talk about my experience when it''s all over, I have to ask a question: Should I be concerned I didn''t see the same Ideal Scope image as I was E-mailed prior to buying it? (White arrows, pretty uniform pinkish background)

If I should be concerned is it worth going back to the gemologist for a re-check on the scope? Or am I making a fuss about nothing? He told me he could see it has a great cut and great light return.

 

[valeria101]

----------------
On 10/4/2004 5:45:03 PM Bruce M wrote:



But the Ideal Scope image looked very different from what I expected.

On line I'd always seen arrows black and the rest red or pink in an ideal scope image.

When the gemologist showed it to me today the arrows were white not black, and the background was a pretty uniform shade of pink, not red.

----------------

White arrows on pink could come from three causes:

1) a H&A viewer (not Iscope) with stronger back light than used for standard H&A photos.

2) an Iscope held further from the stone (so that strong lighting gets onto the diamond from between the scope and the stone).

3) a new, strange breed of H&A traditions RBC that shows arrows but no red onder the scope.

I doubt #3 is out there, so it's either #1 or #2. As long as there is a nice, crisp set of harts and arrows showing, the overall bacground color (red to pink) should not be of much concern unless it is not even (say, red with light pink patches under table...). Relatively lighter red would show loss of brilliance. What color the strongest red/pink looks like depends on the lighting

as far as I know, of course.

 

[Kaili]

Could it be that he showed you a picture through a hearts and arrows viewer insted of an idealscope?


OOPs, didn't see the above post before I finished writing mine

 

[Richard Sherwood]

That's what I think too. Sounds like a Hearts & Arrows image (with white arrows).

 

[quaeritur]

That's my bet too. They work differently and show different things. The H&A viewer only shows symmetry. The IdealScope shows light leakage.

My experience seems to be different from Ana's though. I get the white arrows through the IS when light enters from above (space between IS and my eye letting in light), with no backlighting.

In any case, I agree with your appraiser that you shouldn't worry about it

. It's a different viewer showing you something different, that's all.

 

[Bruce M]

After reading the responses, I looked at the picture of the ideal scope on the ideal scope site. It looks like what the gemologist used today. So it wasn't just an H & A viewer.

But he didn't use it at all like the site recommends. He just plopped it down on the table and used it like an H & A viewer. So that was the problem.

I also called the gemologist about the issue and he downplayed the significance of the ideal scope. He said it's a gimmick. I don't think so, nor does the vendor who sold me the diamond think so. But the diamond has decent brilliance so I'm happy.

I'll post more about my experience when it's all over.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Was the appraiser on the list at Pricescope - if so please PM me or Leonid.

Seems a little dopey - if he has the tool and does not know how to use it. No wonder he thinks it is a gimmick!!!

 

[Bruce M]

This happened at IGS in Thornhill, Ontario. The gemologist who did the tests this morning was Tony Letros there, who I was (and am) happy with. He didn't know they had an ideal scope when I asked about it. But I'd asked the owner Martin Sheffield about it when I booked my appointment and Martin had said they have one. That's why I made the trip from Toronto to Thornhill in the first place. There are lots of appraisers downtown but I wanted someone who could verify the ideal scope image I'd been sent by E-mail by the vendor of the diamond.

So Tony asked Martin about it and came back with it. I heard him get a quick lesson en route!

When I called IGS back to ask a little more about this after reading the responses here, I spoke to Martin himself. I can't say for sure he used the word "gimmick" but that was the sense of what he said. He said it isn't a technical piece of equipment or it would be in wider use by professionals if it was. He said the one they have they got from David Atlas for some reason, but Martin sort of downplayed it.

I'm not trying to criticize anybody here, and I definitely got good value for my appraisal fee. But I am interested in sorting this out because I read it's impossible to get as accurate an ideal scope image once the stone is set. Which is imminent.

The ironic thing is that Martin sells Superb Cert diamonds through his USA Certed diamonds site, and they come with Image Scope images that look just the same to me as Ideal Scope ones. And I thought I read a testimonial on this site from a guy who said Martin took the time to show him all the scope images etc. None of that happened with me today, although I definitely got a professional appraisal job from Tony in every other respect.

I'm going to call Martin tomorrow and ask about the Image Scope vs. Ideal Scope.

 

[Bruce M]

I called Martin this morning and, as always, he was patient and very polite. He agreed the Image Scope mentioned on the Superb Cert site is the same as the Ideal Scope, but he doesn't get into scope stuff when he helps people buy diamonds. There are no Brilliance Scopes in Canada, and virtually no one in Canada uses the Ideal/Image Scope. He doesn't emphasize the latter in his marketing.

Part of me wishes he'd told me this when I called him to make the appointment for the appraisal. Then I'd have gone to someone closer in Toronto. But I must confess it was interesting to see the "shop" at IGS/USA Certed Diamonds in person. And I got a good verbal verification of my diamond in the process.

Now I'm having the diamond set and, when that's done, the whole thing will be appraised for insurance purposes by an appraiser a little closer to home. If I had any doubts about the diamond, I guess I'd buy an ideal scope on-line, but I don't see the need. Everything else the vendor told me checked out on the diamond against the AGS cert, the H & A viewer, and the appraisal details Tony at IGS gave me. And he really liked the cut and brilliance. No point seeing the ideal scope image done properly when everything was uniform and the only thing odd was the colours.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Have you done an HCA?

 

[Bruce M]

Yes. It was buried in my first post above: "Those stats get a decent HCA score (Ex-Ex-Ex-VG, 1.3 over all)." That, the ideal scope & H/A images I was E-mailed by the vendor, the AGS cert, and telephone discussions with someone at the vendor's place answering my questions without any pressure were what persuaded me to buy it.