PSA: Authentication of preloved branded goods!!

[yssie]

Hey folks!!

I'm going to copy this into the brand threads in SMTB but thought I'd start here.

PSA: Get branded pieces you purchase preloved reliably vetted without delay!!

I trawl the Reddit replica forum occasionally and it's pretty terrifying. These replica manufacturers will fake everything. The pieces themselves, of course, but also packaging, certificates of authenticity, purchase receipts, service receipts, valuations for insurance... And the "good" replica manufacturers reuse serials from corresponding real pieces. Same design, same size, same colour, same gemstones... Same serial, reused multiple times. So you can't trust your SA running a serial number for you either.

The only ways to establish authenticity without any shred of doubt are to
A) Buy directly from a brand's boutique or website yourself, or
B) Buy from someone you know personally - who can trace the chain of purchase back to a direct boutique/website purchase.
Alternatively, having a piece serviced by the brand is a second-best stand-in: The brand workshops know their pieces and will only service authentic specimens. This must be servicing that you pay for, though, the free in-store look-over and polish tells you nothing!

There are fakes on PS and other fora. There are fakes on established reseller sites. Reputable IG personalities have fakes. There are lots of honest resellers! But fakes are everywhere. Be careful, PSers!!

 

[RockOnReen]

Thank you, Yssie, this is a helpful and timely post!

 

[Fabtwinsmom]

Thank you, @yssie. I posted something similar on the purse forum a few months ago. I was researching moissanite and came across these replica luxury purses and jewelry Reddit subforums. They even had a buy&sell section which has since been removed. I totally agree that when buying pre-love items, be super careful unless you know the seller. Even with the well known reseller websites, their authenticators may not catch the AAA replicas. These replica makers seem to be very good. On the sub forums, people are showing side by side comparison photos. Even with my years of owning authentic items, I know I won’t be able to tell. Buyers certainly have to beware.

 

[yssie]

Thank you, @yssie. I posted something similar on the purse forum a few months ago. I was researching moissanite and came across these replica luxury purses and jewelry Reddit subforums. They even had a buy&sell section which has since been removed. I totally agree that when buying pre-love items, be super careful unless you know the seller. Even with the well known reseller websites, their authenticators may not catch the AAA replicas. These replica makers seem to be very good. On the sub forums, people are showing side by side comparison photos. Even with my years of owning authentic items, I know I won’t be able to tell. Buyers certainly have to beware.

Made even harder by the fact that most bigger brands aren’t even 100% consistent with themselves in terms of final finish, and they deliberately change random little things over time! So nitpicking the nuances can also lead one to believe that a perfectly authentic piece is fake!

A few months ago I reported a few posts in the VCA and Cartier fora (here on PS) for fakes. Replete with detailed explanations. Those posts are still up and I have mixed feelings: On the one hand I don’t expect PS moderators to become brand experts, and I also don’t expect them to trust some random user’s judgment on another user’s pieces. But on the other hand, knowing with complete confidence that those pieces are replicas, having them still be referenced here as authentic just contributes to already-rampant confusion and breakdown of trust. No good answers to that one I’m afraid.

 

[Cerulean]

Honestly I’m so leery of fakes for popular, branded jewelry pieces that at a certain point the discount buying preloved isn’t worth it to me. Especially when you’re looking at pricier items, the only way I’d buy preloved is for an item that been discontinued.

This is not exactly a constructive comment for those who prefer preloved and are looking for a deal, lol, but where I’ve landed after seeing the artistry that goes into replicas. The other thing I’ve sensed that if it looks to good to be true, it probably is!

 

[AnastasiaBeaverhausen]

Made even harder by the fact that most bigger brands aren’t even 100% consistent with themselves in terms of final finish, and they deliberately change random little things over time! So nitpicking the nuances can also lead one to believe that a perfectly authentic piece is fake!

Thiiiiiis. Heck, even the SAs themselves can goof on authenticity.

 

[mommylawyer]

I even worry about buying fakes from the actual retail store. Couldn't a scammer purchase a genuine piece of jewelry and then return a very convincing fake in the original packaging? Are the Tiffany/Cartier/VCA folks savvy enough to detect a fake return? Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

[yssie]

I even worry about buying fakes from the actual retail store. Couldn't a scammer purchase a genuine piece of jewelry and then return a very convincing fake in the original packaging? Are the Tiffany/Cartier/VCA folks savvy enough to detect a fake return? Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks.

Technically this is definitely possible. In practice IMO it’s so unlikely, and you’ve covered your own backside with your purchase transaction: From that transaction record they can identify when you purchased, where you purchased, what you purchased, who rang you up, who boxed it up, in most cases the specific serial number as well.

The absolute failsafe is to purchase in-boutique from a trusted sales associate. But for me personally - although I’ve thought about this - I’ve decided that it goes into the not gonna worry about it file.

 

[mommylawyer]

Technically this is definitely possible. In practice IMO it’s so unlikely, and you’ve covered your own backside with your purchase transaction: From that transaction record they can identify when you purchased, where you purchased, what you purchased, who rang you up, who boxed it up, in most cases the specific serial number as well.

The absolute failsafe is to purchase in-boutique from a trusted sales associate. But for me personally - although I’ve thought about this - I’ve decided that it goes into the not gonna worry about it file.

Thanks for the quick reply. I'll go ahead and stop worrying about this now.

 

[yssie]

Thanks for the quick reply. I'll go ahead and stop worrying about this now.

If only not worrying was this easy!

 

[Home73]

This is a little off topic but speaks to the fact that the SAs many times are just not trained well:
Husband recently bought me a very expensive bracelet. It was sold to him as Platinum. He was so proud presenting it to me. I knew the line and new that this particular one was only produced in 18k gold. And that is also what the stamp said of course.
My husband was so upset as he recalled the conversation he had with the SA and how he was told that this is very rare in platinum and only a few pieces exist bla bla bla.
I went back to the store to exchange it for size but also to make sure not something weird had happened. The SA was not there but we made sure to tell the store that it was misrepresented. They actually followed up with us and said yes, he was told the wrong metal.
I decided to keep the piece as it is beautiful but for my husband it somehow has less value now as he originally thought......
So I can see that the majority of assistants in the store will not know when a well made fake piece comes in. The back office will know of course when they do work on it. But as mentioned you would need to send it in for a real repair or adjustment like size.

 

[AnastasiaBeaverhausen]

This is a little off topic but speaks to the fact that the SAs many times are just not trained well:
Husband recently bought me a very expensive bracelet. It was sold to him as Platinum. He was so proud presenting it to me. I knew the line and new that this particular one was only produced in 18k gold. And that is also what the stamp said of course.
My husband was so upset as he recalled the conversation he had with the SA and how he was told that this is very rare in platinum and only a few pieces exist bla bla bla.
I went back to the store to exchange it for size but also to make sure not something weird had happened. The SA was not there but we made sure to tell the store that it was misrepresented. They actually followed up with us and said yes, he was told the wrong metal.
I decided to keep the piece as it is beautiful but for my husband it somehow has less value now as he originally thought......
So I can see that the majority of assistants in the store will not know when a well made fake piece comes in. The back office will know of course when they do work on it. But as mentioned you would need to send it in for a real repair or adjustment like size.

Oof. That just sounds like straight up deception. Sorry the SA put a damper on your husband's purchase. Glad you still love it though!

 

[Bron357]

On eBay now with brand handbags over $350 the seller has to send the bag to an authenticator who checks it before forwarding to the buyer.
i sold an LV through this new process, no extra costs, just a few extra days for delivery. I could only hope that the effort I went to in packaging it up safely and nicely was repeated for the buyer by the authentication!

 

[yssie]

Friend reminded me of this thread, bumping for any new buyers!

 

[katbran]

I was in Bergdorfs jewellery department NYC a couple of years ago. I was looking at a rope of Tahitian, South Sea and pink pearls . All around 12mm round. AAA quality. Gorgeous piece around 30k . The sales assistant told me they were all SouthSea pearls. I explained that there are no PINK South Sea and that the PINK (I'm shouting PINK as these were not a 'tinge' of pink .. or pinked like Akoya ... they were PINK) pearls were Freshwater Edison pearls. She insisted they were South Sea...brought the manager over who also confirmed they were South Sea and brought out the description from the BG jewellery buyer... The brand was YOKO . So I suggested they follow up as they were misrepresenting the strand and at 30k ... someone might take exception down the road. I then wandered into the shoe dept. 20 min later the Manager tracked me down...apparently he searched the store for me lol He had called London and spoken to the YOKO office and they confirmed it as South Sea , Tahitian and Edison Freshwater . He thanked me and said they were amending the description.

So - when it comes to jewellery and frankly.. pearls are a big problem... jewellery stores and departments are not well educated . I can't tell you how many Tahitians have been presented to me as exceptionally 'rare' as they were silvery grey. sigh

And fakes.....I seriously wouldn't ever buy a designer bag on any resale site... the fakes are so amazing good now. I've been to places in Istanbul and Hong Kong that specialise in the production of Highest quality fake bags. They take everything into consideration - stitching material and length of the stitch... hardware that is screwed in and not glued ... I had my LV tote with me and couldn't find a difference between mine and the fake. Same with my Sister in Law's Hermes... identical. All the internal documentation was there .. stamps were perfect. bags were around 500-1000$

Designer anything resold on line... buyer beware

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

i know next to nothing about anything but i cringe everytime someone starts a new thread about one of those pre-loved Cartier love rings
or anything preloved from Tiffineys

if i was spending any kind of serouse money on pearls i would of course consult you first dear Yssie
it is very bad the stores we shop in do not know the basics of pearls - especially getting an Eddiosn confused with a south sea (nothing aganist Eddison but even the best ones have to be worth a whole lot less than a nice south sea)

 

[Cerulean]

I was in Bergdorfs jewellery department NYC a couple of years ago. I was looking at a rope of Tahitian, South Sea and pink pearls . All around 12mm round. AAA quality. Gorgeous piece around 30k . The sales assistant told me they were all SouthSea pearls. I explained that there are no PINK South Sea and that the PINK (I'm shouting PINK as these were not a 'tinge' of pink .. or pinked like Akoya ... they were PINK) pearls were Freshwater Edison pearls. She insisted they were South Sea...brought the manager over who also confirmed they were South Sea and brought out the description from the BG jewellery buyer... The brand was YOKO . So I suggested they follow up as they were misrepresenting the strand and at 30k ... someone might take exception down the road. I then wandered into the shoe dept. 20 min later the Manager tracked me down...apparently he searched the store for me lol He had called London and spoken to the YOKO office and they confirmed it as South Sea , Tahitian and Edison Freshwater . He thanked me and said they were amending the description.

So - when it comes to jewellery and frankly.. pearls are a big problem... jewellery stores and departments are not well educated . I can't tell you how many Tahitians have been presented to me as exceptionally 'rare' as they were silvery grey. sigh

And fakes.....I seriously wouldn't ever buy a designer bag on any resale site... the fakes are so amazing good now. I've been to places in Istanbul and Hong Kong that specialise in the production of Highest quality fake bags. They take everything into consideration - stitching material and length of the stitch... hardware that is screwed in and not glued ... I had my LV tote with me and couldn't find a difference between mine and the fake. Same with my Sister in Law's Hermes... identical. All the internal documentation was there .. stamps were perfect. bags were around 500-1000$

Designer anything resold on line... buyer beware

wow - that pearl story makes me cringe, but i can totally believe it!

to be honest, i imagine many PSers are savvier than many SAs and even occasionally vendors themselves. and although i like to believe that most people mean well, yes sometimes people deliberately conceal info too.

in fact, a PSer (i will let her identify herself if she chooses) just spotted a giant MRB being marketed as a true antique transitional on Instagram by an antique jewelry dealer. and umm, it really obviously was not an antique stone! this PSer politely informed the vendor of the inaccuracy and explained why, and her comment was deleted...and the description is unchanged. and worse, this is not the first time i've seen a piece for sale from this vendor that she didn't identify correctly! yikes!

the lesson is that for any piece, it's important to do due diligence...and sometimes going to heavily vetted specialists or the stores themselves (e.g. versus preloved) is the only guarantee. it's unfortunate that the onus falls on consumers, but the reality is, that it does and we all deserve to get what we pay for!

and like you @katbran , i won't buy preloved designer bags or jewelry that are popular and commonly replicated designs. there would be rare exceptions where the seller is my friend, someone i trust, and if they bought it from the store directly...but that's it. if something feels even a little bit off, it probably is

 

[PreRaphaelite]

This extends even as far as cosmetics - I was looking for a makeup brush and there are fakes all over amazon... I ended up ordering from the makeup company's website and paying full retail (heaven forbid) to ensure that I was getting the real thing. Sigh.

I don't have the stomach to buy designer things pre-loved. Unbranded is fine, though.

 

[Fabtwinsmom]

I just came back from a Caribbean cruise and glad to see this thread is alive and well. I had posted about replica handbags on the purseforum to warn people to be cautious when buying resale bags after reading about them on Reddit. I’m aware of the replica jewelry but I was so surprised to see how real they look when I saw them in real life last week in St Thomas and St Maarten. I was doing a quick window shopping of their many jewelry stores and noticed a few carried VCA, Cartier, etc. in the showcases. Turns out they’re replicas made with real diamonds and gold and even have the brand name and serial number stamped on the pieces too. I don’t own any VCA but have tried on a few pieces at the boutique. I have a few Cartier jewelry and even the replica pave Love bracelet looks and feels very much like the original that I tried on back in March at the boutique. I took a couple of pics so other PSers can see the level of details. Imagine if these were worn for a few years and then sold, who would be able to tell? So buyers of resale jewelry beware! I‘m not even sure if some of the authentications on the luxury resale sites/stores will be able to catch everything.

 

[Home73]

I just came back from a Caribbean cruise and glad to see this thread is alive and well. I had posted about replica handbags on the purseforum to warn people to be cautious when buying resale bags after reading about them on Reddit. I’m aware of the replica jewelry but I was so surprised to see how real they look when I saw them in real life last week in St Thomas and St Maarten. I was doing a quick window shopping of their many jewelry stores and noticed a few carried VCA, Cartier, etc. in the showcases. Turns out they’re replicas made with real diamonds and gold and even have the brand name and serial number stamped on the pieces too. I don’t own any VCA but have tried on a few pieces at the boutique. I have a few Cartier jewelry and even the replica pave Love bracelet looks and feels very much like the original that I tried on back in March at the boutique. I took a couple of pics so other PSers can see the level of details. Imagine if these were worn for a few years and then sold, who would be able to tell? So buyers of resale jewelry beware! I‘m not even sure if some of the authentications on the luxury resale sites/stores will be able to catch everything.

So did the sellers/stores readily admit these were replicas? And what price point are we talking if you know? This is indeed scary stuff.

 

[Fabtwinsmom]

So did the sellers/stores readily admit these were replicas? And what price point are we talking if you know? This is indeed scary stuff.

Yes, they did say they were replicas—made by artisans from Italy. Ha! The Reddit forum mentioned they were made in China. Who knows where they’re actually made? At first I thought they were copying the designs because I’ve seen VCA clovers done any which way for years. Then the store salespeople mentioned that the pieces also have the ’brand names’ stamped on them as well. Prices were about 20-30% of the originals. I think the replica VA bracelet with 5 diamond motifs was $5,500.

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

I just came back from a Caribbean cruise and glad to see this thread is alive and well. I had posted about replica handbags on the purseforum to warn people to be cautious when buying resale bags after reading about them on Reddit. I’m aware of the replica jewelry but I was so surprised to see how real they look when I saw them in real life last week in St Thomas and St Maarten. I was doing a quick window shopping of their many jewelry stores and noticed a few carried VCA, Cartier, etc. in the showcases. Turns out they’re replicas made with real diamonds and gold and even have the brand name and serial number stamped on the pieces too. I don’t own any VCA but have tried on a few pieces at the boutique. I have a few Cartier jewelry and even the replica pave Love bracelet looks and feels very much like the original that I tried on back in March at the boutique. I took a couple of pics so other PSers can see the level of details. Imagine if these were worn for a few years and then sold, who would be able to tell? So buyers of resale jewelry beware! I‘m not even sure if some of the authentications on the luxury resale sites/stores will be able to catch everything.

is this not ilegal (in someplaces?)

 

[Fabtwinsmom]

is this not ilegal (in someplaces?)

I think the branded companies have to take actions. There’s a mall near me that before the pandemic used to have stores that sell replica bags, shoes, etc. They were set up like a regular boutique and displayed the bags outright. I once asked a police officer why the cops didn’t do anything about it and he said that unless the branded companies requested it, they didn’t have the manpower—their focus was on cases that affected citizens like robbery, etc.

I also believe that if one travels and goes through custom, the custom officer will seize replicas but not if the items look real and the officer can’t tell they’re fake.

 

[Home73]

I think the branded companies have to take actions. There’s a mall near me that before the pandemic used to have stores that sell replica bags, shoes, etc. They were set up like a regular boutique and displayed the bags outright. I once asked a police officer why the cops didn’t do anything about it and he said that unless the branded companies requested it, they didn’t have the manpower—their focus was on cases that affected citizens like robbery, etc.

I also believe that if one travels and goes through custom, the custom officer will seize replicas but not if the items look real and the officer can’t tell they’re fake.

I have travelled across borders extensively over the years....and have hardly seen a customs officer (Europe). And even here in the US there are less and less. And I doubt they have the resources to go for an individual item (bag, jewelry, sneakers...) .

Also, I think the designer companies could help this much more - not just with demanding prosecution but also verification in the stores or creating a service for secondhand goods. With blockchain, chips etc. this would not be so difficult. But the brands don't really want that because they want us to pay retail prices. I get that but what ever happened to sustainability or reusing and saving of resources.....At the end none of this matters.

 

[yssie]

not just with demanding prosecution but also verification in the stores or creating a service for secondhand goods. With blockchain, chips etc. this would not be so difficult. But the brands don't really want that because they want us to pay retail prices.

100%.

 

[Avondale]

I also believe that if one travels and goes through custom, the custom officer will seize replicas but not if the items look real and the officer can’t tell they’re fake.

I doubt they have the resources to go for an individual item (bag, jewelry, sneakers...)

Customs officers can't seize replicas in cases where the replica is owned by an individual. There are very strict rules on what can be seized as to protect private property. It is generally not illegal for an individual to own a replica or to purchase one so if you're wearing a, say, Cartier bracelet replica, no one can take it from you, even if you were to specifically share this with the customs officer processing your documents.

It's illegal to make and to sell replicas. Seizures of counterfeit goods do happen on the regular on borders all over the world, but you don't see those (unless it's something so ridiculous that it reaches the news, like the OnePlus headphones seizure from some time ago) because they happen with goods being imported/exported for commercial purposes.

 

[Fabtwinsmom]

I think the main thing is to be vigilant when purchasing anything pre-owned. Sometimes people/resellers are not even aware that the vintage pieces they are selling are replicas because of how well they’re made. Some come complete with serial number, box and certificate. There was also an incident here recently that someone sold a replica Cartier Love bracelet and not even a good fake so be super careful and only buy from a reputable source. Use PayPal (regular not F&F) or a credit card to have some buyer’s protection.

 

[Home73]

Customs officers can't seize replicas in cases where the replica is owned by an individual. There are very strict rules on what can be seized as to protect private property. It is generally not illegal for an individual to own a replica or to purchase one so if you're wearing a, say, Cartier bracelet replica, no one can take it from you, even if you were to specifically share this with the customs officer processing your documents.

Thank you for the clarification. Is this just in the US or are most countries regulated like that? If you know?

 

[Avondale]

Thank you for the clarification. Is this just in the US or are most countries regulated like that? If you know?

Well, no way to know with 100% certainty since legislation is different from country to country (and I'm in Europe). But when it comes to intellectual property regulations the world overall is oddly in sync. Aside from some small differences here and there, the main governing principles are the same.

Also, laws (are supposed to) obey logic. Say a country decided to make it illegal to buy and own counterfeit goods. They would have a very difficult time trying to enforce that law. First of all, what if the buyer doesn't know they're purchasing a replica and they themselves are a victim of fraud? So they've been defrauded by the seller and then punished by the state for it. Say the legislator foresaw that and included a text absolving innocent buyers of responsibility. But then how are authorities to determine whether a replica was purchased knowingly? How do they prove the person who owns it knew at the time what they were buying? What if the owner had received the replica as a gift? Even if the person did purchase it knowingly, they could easily lie that they didn't know or that it had been a gift and it would be so difficult to prove otherwise it would be practically impossible.

It just doesn't make sense to go after individuals and consumers. It's a lot more logical and feasible to go after the manufacturers and sellers. After all, once the entire batch of counterfeit goods has been seized, none of them will reach individual customers, thus eliminating entirely the necessity to go after people's personal belongings.

 

[katbran]

I was thinking about this very problem after looking at items at a local auction house. While scrolling through the catalog looking for anything interesting I came across 6 'luxury handbag' listings. They were Louis Vuitton " style"...Chanel "style"... Hermes "style" .... I'm assuming that the House figured that they couldn't be charged for selling counterfeit goods if they tacked "style' onto the listing. Of course the bags were all fake and totally reproduced the brands identifying trademarks. People were bidding hundreds of dollars.... I guess 'style' wasn't enough of a warning. They also were selling , as legit, several Chanel jewellery pieces as well as Bulgari. These are not items that are usually sold at this House... it's 99% furniture / household items. So I'm assuming its the same source as the bags.... again... lots of bids.