Pulling the trigger in 48 hours, need advice asap on 2 diamond avenues! (ACA vs CBI)

[T1NS]

Hello Everyone, decision time has come and before pulling the trigger on the WF ACA, I did a lot of homework on here and talked to some friends and CBI came into the picture ...

Here is the stone I currently have on hold with WF that I had my mind set one ...

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4161791.htm

Background:
I have done extensive research and decided on a diamond to perform well and be cut well above all. In order to get within my 26-27,000 diamond budget I lowered to an eye clean (verified by vendor) SL1 and a J color. My soon to be fiance does not mind the warmth and all these seem to face up pretty icy as it is, probably due to their accurate cuts. Now, the reason I was SO set on the WF diamond is because it actually measure 9.2x9.25 which is closer to some of the 3 ct + I have been revewing. It is an ACA and from what I have seen with the help of the WF team it is a very sparkly stone.

Now onto CBI, they have this available ...

https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD10621

OR can cut me a diamond to my criteria (J, VS2) for the same price I am paying for the WF but 2.5 ct. These dimensions are going to be under 9mm and even though I understand they may seem larger than any other 2.5 it still will be smaller than the ACA. I cannot afford a 3.0 carat from CBI and they do not cut diamonds between 2.5 and 3 so here are my options ...

I am struggling to prioritize performance over size. Size is important to me very much so, but I also want it to be the most sparkly possible. LETS JUST SAY I KNOW CBI will "perform better" and do not have an interest of seeing both side by side, do you think sacrificing almost 0.3 mm is worth that extra performance?

Need to make a decision soon so I do not lose my initial diamond

 

[T1NS]

DO not mean to beat a dead horse, I have seen all the threads of comparison and suggestions to see both.

 

[MissGotRocks]

Hello Everyone, decision time has come and before pulling the trigger on the WF ACA, I did a lot of homework on here and talked to some friends and CBI came into the picture ...

Here is the stone I currently have on hold with WF that I had my mind set one ...

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4161791.htm

Background:
I have done extensive research and decided on a diamond to perform well and be cut well above all. In order to get within my 26-27,000 diamond budget I lowered to an eye clean (verified by vendor) SL1 and a J color. My soon to be fiance does not mind the warmth and all these seem to face up pretty icy as it is, probably due to their accurate cuts. Now, the reason I was SO set on the WF diamond is because it actually measure 9.2x9.25 which is closer to some of the 3 ct + I have been revewing. It is an ACA and from what I have seen with the help of the WF team it is a very sparkly stone.

Now onto CBI, they have this available ...

https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD10621

OR can cut me a diamond to my criteria (J, VS2) for the same price I am paying for the WF but 2.5 ct. These dimensions are going to be under 9mm and even though I understand they may seem larger than any other 2.5 it still will be smaller than the ACA. I cannot afford a 3.0 carat from CBI and they do not cut diamonds between 2.5 and 3 so here are my options ...

I am struggling to prioritize performance over size. Size is important to me very much so, but I also want it to be the most sparkly possible. LETS JUST SAY I KNOW CBI will "perform better" and do not have an interest of seeing both side by side, do you think sacrificing almost 0.3 mm is worth that extra performance?

Need to make a decision soon so I do not lose my initial diamond

How could you possibly know that the CBI will perform better when it hasn't even been cut? I would not agree with that assessment at all. The CBI has better clarity but is smaller. Assuming that the ACA would be eye clean to your standards, is the same color and larger stone, that would be the route I would go.

 

[T1NS]

It was just an assumption made to take into consideration that performance may be better with the CBI based on a lot of comparisons and recommendations from trust people in my life, it may perform better.

 

[whitewave]

...Because Paul has picky standards and a tight set of numbers he cuts with.

I don’t know the answer to the .3mm difference—my guess is probably not much of a difference

 

[chamois]

Would an upgrade in the future be a consideration?

 

[coda72]

I personally would go for the WF diamond, but I’m a size person. I wouldn’t want to pay the same price for a smaller diamond. I have read about comparisons between the 2 companies, but in reality I think there won’t be a big difference in cut quality between the 2 stones.

 

[T1NS]

Would an upgrade in the future be a consideration?

It is something that is always a possibility. Both policies I am okay with. Not looking for the lifetime buy back even though it is nice that it is offered by one of the vendors.

 

[T1NS]

I personally would go for the WF diamond, but I’m a size person. I wouldn’t want to pay the same price for a smaller diamond. I have read about comparisons between the 2 companies, but in reality I think there won’t be a big difference in cut quality between the 2 stones.

I think I may be falling too much in marketing. I went from considering ACA stones at the top of the food chain to being mediocre when being shown side by side comparisons of similar stones in action.

 

[T1NS]

Here is the stone itself for what it is worth. Shows pretty large for a 2.88 I think (I know finger size plays a role) but overall seems okay.

QUESTION: Is it me or does it seem yellow?

 

[Kim N]

I would also go for the WF stone. I don't think you would see a difference in performance, but I think te size difference would be noticeable. The stone doesn't look yellow to me.

 

[chamois]

Here is the stone itself for what it is worth. Shows pretty large for a 2.88 I think (I know finger size plays a role) but overall seems okay.

QUESTION: Is it me or does it seem yellow?

It is a nice size for sure, no question. On my screen it looks as if it is picking up a bluish hue (not yellow).

This is a tough decision for you........personally, if it were me I would want size, but I would also want it to be a CBI, not much help to you sorry.

 

[Gussie]

An ACA mediocre?

 

[tyty333]

Relative size difference on a size 6 finger with a 2mm shank.

 

[T1NS]

So they look the same ... face up jeez, that does not help

 

[kindred]

It sounds like you want the extra size and you're ok with the J color. I am a second-guesser and I have been known to over analyze, so I get it, but I think you're psyching yourself out. I think you should go with the Whiteflash diamond. If you see it in person and don't like it, you can exercise their great return policy.

 

[sledge]

The problem is you have an apples to oranges comparison. I'm gasping as I say this, but ignore cut for just a second and look at the rest of the equation.

Color = I vs J
Clarity = SI1 vs VS2
Size = 2.882 vs 2.532

To no surprise, the ACA offers a bigger stone for less dollars per carat because it has lower color & clarity:

• $27,000 (assumed, since I can't see exact price) / 2.882 = $9,368 per carat
• $28,212 (assume wire price is okay) / 2.532 = $11,142 per carat

The real question becomes does the color or clarity bother you?

When I look at the videos I don't see anything on either stone that sticks out as bad. When I look at the clarity plots the SI1 isn't quite as clean as the VS2, but honestly I've seen cleaner VS2's. Doesn't mean that's bad, but for me, it takes away some of the value of getting a VS2.

Next thing is color. It would be nice to see these diamonds side by side. But that isn't going to happen. That said, most people have a trouble discerning a single color grade difference between two stones, but I say that loosely as an individual's visual acuity comes into play here.

Also, color grades have ranges to them. The further down the color scale you go, the wider the range. So there isn't much variance in D stones. However, with I or J stones you will see more variance. So it's possible you could get a high J (almost I), low J (almost K) or medium J (right in the middle).

For me, the next logical question I'd want to ask WF and HPD is how each stone compares in color to other stones within a grade up and down. In other words, are these strong, low or medium I and J colored stones? A low I and high J is probably close to the same. But a high I and low J might be enough difference to sway you.

With size, you have a few differences at play. Carat weight is used as a metric of significance, where larger is normally accepted as superior. However, in the diamond world, the spread (diameter) is what really matters. The spread is based on the cut proportions of the stone. In this case, the WF stone has more carat weight and larger spread.

A final difference in the size metric is that price normally jumps as you surpass major and minor "magic weights". A 2.50 carat stone will sell less per carat than an identical (as much as one can exist) 2.75 carat stone. This is hard to see and appreciate here because of the differences in color and clarity between the stones.

Finally I will loop back to cut. Both the ACA and CBI will be gorgeous. If you polled this board, you'd likely find more ACA owners. I think some of that has to do with ACA's typically being lower priced than identically comparable CBI's. The other factor is that sometimes a person will specifically prefer ACA over CBI or vice versa.

When I start nitpicking between two awesome choices like this I like to look at the proportions a little closer.

ACA = 56.6 table, 60.5 depth, 34 crown, 40.7 pavilion, 77 LGF & 50 stars
CBI = 57.5 table, 61.1 depth, 34.1 crown, 40.8 pavilion, 77 LGF & 55 stars

I find myself a little torn on which set of proportions I like better.

I prefer the 34.1/40.8 combo of the CBI by a hair as it's a little more complimentary. Because of the steeper pavilion it has a little more depth, so you don't maximize spread as efficiently as the ACA. On the flip side, you have the 57.5 table which is still within ideal range but I normally like 54-57, and prefer 54-56 if possible as a smaller table means larger upper girdle facets, which is where rainbow light is produced. Still, it's a nicely balanced stone.

With the ACA I do prefer the smaller 56.6 table. Also, the 34/40.7 is still respectable, and while I do prefer the CA/PA combo of the CBI a little better I think the smaller table will help balance the stone out. Honestly, I think you will have two stones that perform pretty similar to one another. Another small advantage the ACA carries is that despite the arrows both measuring out at 77, the arrows look slightly fatter on the ACA stone. This is because the table is smaller. I prefer fat arrows so that is a plus for me visually. However, not everyone shares my sentiment and the difference is very minimal.

My last thoughts has to do with potential upgrades in the future. Look at both vendor sites and while you will see pickings begin to narrow in your size range, you will see more options with WF. I'm not sure the importance of upgrading, but currently WF seems to have a larger and more diverse inventory to choose from for upgrades.

Overall, you have two wonderfully awesome choices. I don't think there is a "bad" choice to be made, but rather just a preference of what you value most.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

No, a 2.5 and 2.8 do not look the same. A 2.8 is certainly going to look larger and you can see that with the stones on the fingers.

WF and CBI are both great companies with great stones. No two diamonds are exactly alike. if you line up 5 CBI stones, you may find you like certain measurements better than others if you're really particular. Same with any other vendor. But it is a great insult to those of us who are long time customers of WF to say that CBI's stones are better. That's ridiculous because both vendors post images for light return and you can see the precision in cutting.

The key to this is whether greater size or color/clarity are most important to HER.

 

[T1NS]

The problem is you have an apples to oranges comparison. I'm gasping as I say this, but ignore cut for just a second and look at the rest of the equation.

Color = I vs J
Clarity = SI1 vs VS2
Size = 2.882 vs 2.532

To no surprise, the ACA offers a bigger stone for less dollars per carat because it has lower color & clarity:

• $27,000 (assumed, since I can't see exact price) / 2.882 = $9,368 per carat
• $28,212 (assume wire price is okay) / 2.532 = $11,142 per carat

The real question becomes does the color or clarity bother you?

When I look at the videos I don't see anything on either stone that sticks out as bad. When I look at the clarity plots the SI1 isn't quite as clean as the VS2, but honestly I've seen cleaner VS2's. Doesn't mean that's bad, but for me, it takes away some of the value of getting a VS2.

Next thing is color. It would be nice to see these diamonds side by side. But that isn't going to happen. That said, most people have a trouble discerning a single color grade difference between two stones, but I say that loosely as an individual's visual acuity comes into play here.

Also, color grades have ranges to them. The further down the color scale you go, the wider the range. So there isn't much variance in D stones. However, with I or J stones you will see more variance. So it's possible you could get a high J (almost I), low J (almost K) or medium J (right in the middle).

For me, the next logical question I'd want to ask WF and HPD is how each stone compares in color to other stones within a grade up and down. In other words, are these strong, low or medium I and J colored stones? A low I and high J is probably close to the same. But a high I and low J might be enough difference to sway you.

With size, you have a few differences at play. Carat weight is used as a metric of significance, where larger is normally accepted as superior. However, in the diamond world, the spread (diameter) is what really matters. The spread is based on the cut proportions of the stone. In this case, the WF stone has more carat weight and larger spread.

A final difference in the size metric is that price normally jumps as you surpass major and minor "magic weights". A 2.50 carat stone will sell less per carat than an identical (as much as one can exist) 2.75 carat stone. This is hard to see and appreciate here because of the differences in color and clarity between the stones.

Finally I will loop back to cut. Both the ACA and CBI will be gorgeous. If you polled this board, you'd likely find more ACA owners. I think some of that has to do with ACA's typically being lower priced than identically comparable CBI's. The other factor is that sometimes a person will specifically prefer ACA over CBI or vice versa.

When I start nitpicking between two awesome choices like this I like to look at the proportions a little closer.

ACA = 56.6 table, 60.5 depth, 34 crown, 40.7 pavilion, 77 LGF & 50 stars
CBI = 57.5 table, 61.1 depth, 34.1 crown, 40.8 pavilion, 77 LGF & 55 stars

I find myself a little torn on which set of proportions I like better.

I prefer the 34.1/40.8 combo of the CBI by a hair as it's a little more complimentary. Because of the steeper pavilion it has a little more depth, so you don't maximize spread as efficiently as the ACA. On the flip side, you have the 57.5 table which is still within ideal range but I normally like 54-57, and prefer 54-56 if possible as a smaller table means larger upper girdle facets, which is where rainbow light is produced. Still, it's a nicely balanced stone.

With the ACA I do prefer the smaller 56.6 table. Also, the 34/40.7 is still respectable, and while I do prefer the CA/PA combo of the CBI a little better I think the smaller table will help balance the stone out. Honestly, I think you will have two stones that perform pretty similar to one another. Another small advantage the ACA carries is that despite the arrows both measuring out at 77, the arrows look slightly fatter on the ACA stone. This is because the table is smaller. I prefer fat arrows so that is a plus for me visually. However, not everyone shares my sentiment and the difference is very minimal.

My last thoughts has to do with potential upgrades in the future. Look at both vendor sites and while you will see pickings begin to narrow in your size range, you will see more options with WF. I'm not sure the importance of upgrading, but currently WF seems to have a larger and more diverse inventory to choose from for upgrades.

Overall, you have two wonderfully awesome choices. I don't think there is a "bad" choice to be made, but rather just a preference of what you value most.

This is what I have been looking for and thank you for the detailed break down. My heart is with the ACA stone but my mind was with the CBI stone. I will be going with the ACA diamond after all.

THE MAIN REASON BEING THE FOLLOWING:

Customer Service. Both have been amazingly helpful with answering my questions but I felt more comfortable with ACA. CBI seemed to want to discredit ACA and insist their stones performed better. I do not blame their approach at all and it does not take away from their integrity or respectfulness at all, just seemed they were more concerned about comparing it to an ACA diamond rather then selling me what they had. The ACA rep, even after hearing about my consideration in the other vendor, remained respectful to both diamonds, said nothing negative, and continued to assist me in the process any way she could. She admitted this is not just an expensive purchase but a sentimental one and whether they were a part of it or not offered her help. This to me was priceless and worth my business honestly. Sales can be tricky and I understand that and there are tactics at play, I just felt more comfortable with ACA in the end and commited.

Will be purchasing the 2.88 J SL1 and have a setting made by WF that will be a 2mm diamond band with a high set 6 prong in platinum. I am excited.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Here's a Whiteflash 2.59 I VS2 if you are feeling the desire to go higher in color and clarity:

Diamond | 2.593 ct I VS2 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4104627

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 2.593 carat I color VS2 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4104627

www.whiteflash.com

***Didn't see your latest post until I had posted this. But you do have mutiple options at Whiteflash.

 

[Ceilimom]

Here is the stone itself for what it is worth. Shows pretty large for a 2.88 I think (I know finger size plays a role) but overall seems okay.

QUESTION: Is it me or does it seem yellow?

Not seeing any yellow at all.

 

[sledge]

Congrat @T1NS, I'm glad my ramblings could help you.

Can't wait to see pictures and hear your impressions of the final product.

 

[T1NS]

Is there a way of adding a video to this forum? I would love to show you perhaps the video that was sent to me of the diamond in office lighting and get everyone's thoughts??

 

[sledge]

Upload to youtube and then copy and paste the link to this site.

 

[MissGotRocks]

This is what I have been looking for and thank you for the detailed break down. My heart is with the ACA stone but my mind was with the CBI stone. I will be going with the ACA diamond after all.

THE MAIN REASON BEING THE FOLLOWING:

Customer Service. Both have been amazingly helpful with answering my questions but I felt more comfortable with ACA. CBI seemed to want to discredit ACA and insist their stones performed better. I do not blame their approach at all and it does not take away from their integrity or respectfulness at all, just seemed they were more concerned about comparing it to an ACA diamond rather then selling me what they had. The ACA rep, even after hearing about my consideration in the other vendor, remained respectful to both diamonds, said nothing negative, and continued to assist me in the process any way she could. She admitted this is not just an expensive purchase but a sentimental one and whether they were a part of it or not offered her help. This to me was priceless and worth my business honestly. Sales can be tricky and I understand that and there are tactics at play, I just felt more comfortable with ACA in the end and commited.

Will be purchasing the 2.88 J SL1 and have a setting made by WF that will be a 2mm diamond band with a high set 6 prong in platinum. I am excited.

This is both surprising and disheartening to me. CBI diamonds and HPD have enjoyed a great reputation on PS. A great product speaks for itself and has no need to diminish another.

Please come back and share pictures of your new ring with us!

 

[chamois]

This is both surprising and disheartening to me. CBI diamonds and HPD have enjoyed a great reputation on PS. A great product speaks for itself and has no need to diminish another.

Please come back and share pictures of your new ring with us!

Agreed. I was also surprised and dismayed.

 

[T1NS]

UPDATE -

This was not to disrespect the culture or services of anyone. These were just my feelings as a consumer. Ultimately this is what happened between the text messages from CBI (in order to answer in one place the messages I have been getting). Please note that this is all just my perception and feeling which there is no right or wrong to just how I felt at the time continuing to be as unbiased as possible ...

This is a large sentimental purchase, so before committing nearly 30k I did one last run to see what was available as far as other vendors go. As a consumer when I am spending this amount of money I need to feel right about it. When reaching out to CBI I was repetitively told that their diamonds are much better performing than ACA. They continued to link me to direct threads to these forums to support their claims. Sure, I mean they are biased against their product and I did not expect differently. It was the manner they went about it. Basically they made me feel as, if I did not get a CBI stone I would not have a good diamond based on their various claims and opinions on other diamonds I was considering. Okay, I do not have a problem with that but I specifically said I would consider a CBI diamond instead if they can find me something comparable. I made it very clear to them that my budget was what it was, even stretched it a tiny bit. I also made it extremely clear that size is important and I was willing to sacrifice it a tiny bit and maybe go up in price a TINY bit if they had something COMPARABLE. Now, they relentlessly pushed much smaller diamonds on me, which were significantly more then the one I was considering. They were higher clarity grades but this was not comparable as I mentioned a few times. Basically, and I mentioned this, if I have a 9.2x9.25 for 26k I would be willing to go to 9.0 mm for let us say 27-28k. They continued to sell me on CBI, which again is great, but since you do not have a comparable option then I do not see the point of being persistent. The up sell was very evident as they mentioned getting one cut @ 3.0 carats several times, but as I mentioned all the times I cannot afford a diamond that is 32,000-33,000 unfortunately. It just felt a little like being at a car dealer that is all. This is just my opinion on the experience. It did not feel well being made to feel the diamond you were considering is not as nice as another and then being pushed on the other when you cannot afford it, knowing you cannot by both sides.

This is not to discourage anyone from going to them for your diamond needs. Link did make an effort and spent some time on the phone to complement WF and support any decision I make in the end. He took the time to iron some things out with what happened.

Would I consider and recommend CBI diamonds, sure, they are beautiful. I just got some bad luck I guess.

 

[T1NS]

I would also like to state that CBI did make an effort to apologize as well for their intentions being taken the way that they were. They were sincerely concerned about maintaining the reputation that they have, which is phenomenal. Whatever happens, I did not like the way I was felt in the end which is unfortunate with a decision like this. I would not let this discourage anyone from going to them as their diamonds are gorgeous, as we all know.

 

[Polabowla]

Thank you for being honest I think it's important to hear both good & bad so ppl can make informed decisions!

 

[T1NS]

I received a lot of my information from these pages, so just wanted to share my experience. My biggest complaint and possibly my only is being made to feel like any other diamond is not as good enough and not offering a comparable alternative without spending $6,000 more then my budget. As a buyer it makes me feel really discouraged all together and when shopping for an engagement ring I want to feel proud of whatever I end up getting and a part of that was taken away.

Again, this is just my experience and it is not to reflect badly on anyone involved. They really did attempt to apologize and make an effort to discuss how I was feeling which I respect and admire. I just seem to have been unlucky as I have never seen this happening before.

Link was really nice as well, seems like there is a reason everyone recommends him.