Purple Sapphire Photo Education

[ShinyPink]

Sorry for the weird title. I was browsing and saw this purple sapphire. I am NOT buying it, but I have questions about the photos and stone and would like to be more educated.

The dark middle area shows on all the photos. Is it the stone, or the fact that's it's round and reflecting something, or what? Sometimes I see pictures of stones and I just don't know what any of these "shadows" mean, if anything. It's supposedly "Nice saturated purple color without being too dark. Not native cut, no window, no zoning."

Thank you!!!!!

 

[purple-sapphire]

Sorry for the weird title. I was browsing and saw this purple sapphire. I am NOT buying it, but I have questions about the photos and stone and would like to be more educated.

The dark middle area shows on all the photos. Is it the stone, or the fact that's it's round and reflecting something, or what? Sometimes I see pictures of stones and I just don't know what any of these "shadows" mean, if anything. It's supposedly "Nice saturated purple color without being too dark. Not native cut, no window, no zoning."

Thank you!!!!!

can i get information on this stone? sorry not trying to deter your thread I love the color

 

[ShinyPink]

Yes, indeed! It's from Yvonne, but I'm just trying to understand pictures.

 

[purple-sapphire]

Yes, indeed! It's from Yvonne, but I'm just trying to understand pictures.

thank you. I too am interested in this topic b/c I am new to this as well.

 

[T L]

Sorry for the weird title. I was browsing and saw this purple sapphire. I am NOT buying it, but I have questions about the photos and stone and would like to be more educated.

The dark middle area shows on all the photos. Is it the stone, or the fact that's it's round and reflecting something, or what? Sometimes I see pictures of stones and I just don't know what any of these "shadows" mean, if anything. It's supposedly "Nice saturated purple color without being too dark. Not native cut, no window, no zoning."

Thank you!!!!!

Often a stone will look dark in a photo due to the camera creating a shadow on it. I think this is the same case. Some stones look dark in pictures because they have poor cutting and/or dark tone, which cause extinction, but in this case it just might be a camera shadow.

 

[Seaglow]

There are many things that cause extinction or limit light return in gemstones and it is especially harder to avoid extinction in darker colored stones.

Also, not because it’s precision cut means it’s going to be bright, though even a well cut stone will have some degree of dark portions, but “dark” can have varying degrees as well and can be less obvious than some with lower relief.

These are some causes of the extinctions/dark portions in the middle:

1. Cut and Proportions - If the girdle is thick, it can reflect in the table face up or with a slight tilt. Colored Stones are way below the hardness of diamonds so what can be medium girdle thickness in diamonds may not be best for many gemstones due to durability purposes. Also, middle extinction can be caused by a deep pavilion but portions under the table with extinction can also be caused by the overall proportion of the cut of the stone.

2. Inclusions - Some inclusions like a hazy or cloudy area especially close to or near the cutlet can hamper light return. But some inclusions like silk can actually reduce extinction by scattering light.

3. Nature of the stone and color - Darker stones are ofcourse less open and bright. Very saturated stones will have less extinction or “lighter” extinction and fluorescence can also mask extinction. I understand most people avoid window but darker stones many times are purposely cut with shallower pavilion to bring out more color.

Here are sample photos to explain better.

Many rubies and purple sapphires are cut on the shallow size due to nature of crystal occurrence (roughs are small and many cutters like to save weight). Personally and I understand not preferred here in this forum, I find many rubies and purple sapphires nice with a bit of window to open the color, and the slight window can be closed with a nice setting. Ovals are notorious for half extinctions, but because the purple sapphires below are cut just a bit on the shallow side, it has less extinction



The round garnets below with cornered edges are precision cut, but the proportions of the cut plus the tone of the stones does give the middle of the stones some extinction. The cut has a small table and I have observed this cut in spinels as well and I don’t find the proportions of this cut to really open the color.



With regard to the purple sapphire in your photo, it is well cut but even though it is round, it is not a round brilliant. Round brilliant scatters light more but the brilliant cut pavilion is not friendly in weight retention. Also due to lower refractive index, sapphire will not perform well like diamonds in scattering light but in colored stones, it is color first and brilliant cut in not the best cut to retain the best color, thus many FCDs are not cut round brilliant. Also even though there are sapphires that are cut round, they are usually mixed cut with a step cut pavilion and in the case of the stone you posted, Portuguese cut, cuts that are better retaining weight and emphasizing color compared to brilliant cut.

 

[qubitasaurus]

There are many things that cause extinction or limit light return in gemstones and it is especially harder to avoid extinction in darker colored stones.

Also, not because it’s precision cut means it’s going to be bright, though even a well cut stone will have some degree of dark portions, but “dark” can have varying degrees as well and can be less obvious than some with lower relief.

These are some causes of the extinctions/dark portions in the middle:

1. Cut and Proportions - If the girdle is thick, it can reflect in the table face up or with a slight tilt. Colored Stones are way below the hardness of diamonds so what can be medium girdle thickness in diamonds may not be best for many gemstones due to durability purposes. Also, middle extinction can be caused by a deep pavilion but portions under the table with extinction can also be caused by the overall proportion of the cut of the stone.

2. Inclusions - Some inclusions like a hazy or cloudy area especially close to or near the cutlet can hamper light return. But some inclusions like silk can actually reduce extinction by scattering light.

3. Nature of the stone and color - Darker stones are ofcourse less open and bright. Very saturated stones will have less extinction or “lighter” extinction and fluorescence can also mask extinction. I understand most people avoid window but darker stones many times are purposely cut with shallower pavilion to bring out more color.

Here are sample photos to explain better.

Many rubies and purple sapphires are cut on the shallow size due to nature of crystal occurrence (roughs are small and many cutters like to save weight). Personally and I understand not preferred here in this forum, I find many rubies and purple sapphires nice with a bit of window to open the color, and the slight window can be closed with a nice setting. Ovals are notorious for half extinctions, but because the purple sapphires below are cut just a bit on the shallow side, it has less extinction



The round garnets below with cornered edges are precision cut, but the proportions of the cut plus the tone of the stones does give the middle of the stones some extinction. The cut has a small table and I have observed this cut in spinels as well and I don’t find the proportions of this cut to really open the color.



With regard to the purple sapphire in your photo, it is well cut but even though it is round, it is not a round brilliant. Round brilliant scatters light more but the brilliant cut pavilion is not friendly in weight retention. Also due to lower refractive index, sapphire will not perform well like diamonds in scattering light but in colored stones, it is color first and brilliant cut in not the best cut to retain the best color, thus many FCDs are not cut round brilliant. Also even though there are sapphires that are cut round, they are usually mixed cut with a step cut pavilion and in the case of the stone you posted, Portuguese cut, cuts that are better retaining weight and emphasizing color compared to brilliant cut.

I don't have anything to add, but I wanted to say if that square stone is a garnet than boy is it nice -- especially if that is fluorescent lighting. It is lovely.

 

[ShinyPink]

Wow! Thank you TL and Seaglow! Your knowledge is humbling, and I truly appreciate the time you took to answer my questions. And I love those photos, Seaglow; not only are they pretty, but they help with my understanding! So much to learn, and very interesting.

 

[Seaglow]

I don't have anything to add, but I wanted to say if that square stone is a garnet than boy is it nice -- especially if that is fluorescent lighting. It is lovely.

Thanks! The stones are taken under LED lamp and all the stones are garnets. The one you are mentioning is an Umba garnet.

 

[Cockatiel]

Just my biased opinion, but I find portuguese cut rounds look like that often. More "black" areas compared to proper round brilliants. Facets are smaller too so the black areas can look really weird depending on the picture. Sometimes it works on big stones (like 8mm or over) where you can see the flower pattern properly.

 

[Frost]

Seaglow already explained things perfectly and factually, so not much to add. A small addition about photos:

Gems are very difficult to light up fully in photos without having reflections pop up all over the place because you're fighting physics; you're trying to have all the brilliance without any of the lustre (with a highly reflective material on top of that). Many vendors simply won't take or don't have the time - in some cases hours on end - to get those 'perfect' shots. It takes tons of patience and trying.

That leaves consumers needing to use their own knowledge of the material in question, its particular hue/tone/saturation characteristics and the photography techniques used in order to interpret the photos correctly. This comes with experience with gems and photos - practicing taking your own photos helps understand what you're seeing online better.

Stones light up, generally speaking, on the opposite side of where the light source is. So if you're next to a window on your left, the right side will be lit up while the left may look dark. You can see it in the second OP image; the light is coming from the right and what's the most strongly illuminated is the left side (or a part of it near the centre). This can be rectified by simply properly lighting the stone up - had it been taken with lights on both sides, the photo would have looked different and probably more representative of what it looks like in daylight.
If the stone deserves to be shown as lit up, i.e. if it's not a dark deadish stone in real life (in which case it should be purposely made to look like that in the photos too), then that should be portrayed. If you have a stone that lights up properly in diffused daylight, then that deserves to be lit up in artificial light photos too and time should be taken for that. The OP stone above looks like something that would light up normally in daylight, but isn't lit up as much as it could be in the photos. The caveat is that it will be slightly greyish/dim in real life, and that's reflected in the photos to a degree - it's not a super-saturated stone and that's okay as long as the photos don't make it seem like one. But you can light a stone properly and still portray that slight dimness at the same time, and someone who's seen enough stones will be able to see that at a glance in your photo.

The "shadows" in the photo the OP mentioned are normal extinction when only parts of the stone are lit up. Photos can't accurately portray brilliance as seen by the eye; DSLRs normally make the contrasts appear stronger than they do to the eye, so what appears to be fully lit up to the eye may not appear fully lit up to the camera (because it's just a single moment captured with parts either lit up or not, whereas to the eye it's a blur, a mix of both). Again, this is up to the photographer to judge and decide - you need to light it up correctly so that it shows what the eye sees.

 

[Kevin Bryant]

This is a unheated purple / lavender I just got back from re-cutting

 

[Nosean]

Yes, indeed! It's from Yvonne, but I'm just trying to understand pictures.

Just my opinion but you can get this cheaper...


http://www.multicolour.com/detail/?1347849003

Ok - heated..

 

[ShinyPink]

practicing taking your own photos helps understand what you're seeing online better.

Such a great idea! I never think of the obvious... I'll be trying that. It should really help with my understanding.

 

[Frost]

@MrsKMB It does. After a while with both stones and photos, you can tell from the photos whether something is going to light up well, whether something will show an undesirable undertone, whether a stone is silky/hazy, what the general color range may be, etc. It's a sort of a general feeling for stones you get after some time - I've noticed some other forum members have it too.

 

[elle_71125]

I wanted to chime in because I bought this sapphire (though I didn't realize there was a thread going on about it). I will say it is a lovely color sapphire. @Seaglow made a lot of excellent points. I agree that this sapphire is a little bit shallow. That works out better for me because it fits perfectly into a preloved setting of mine.

I don't think it's dark at all. It's medium colored, if that makes sense (sorry, saturation, tone, etc continue to elude me...my brain is stubbornly refusing to retain the info). This purple is moody and shifts under different light sources. Kind of a purple blue in lower lights to a purple pink in bright lights). Some pics below to show the color. I popped it into an empty setting.

Here's kind of the worst it looks IMO. Low light inside my house. It looks more blue inside my car (dark grey ceilings)



This one is inside next to a window.


Under my kitchen lights. More pink tones come out.


It looks awesome and bright purple outside.

 

[Lisa Loves Shiny]

It looks like the camera reflection to me.

 

[ringo865]

Wow @elle_71125 She is so pretty!! Is that the setting she's going into! Your IRL pics look so beautiful. <plotting next purchase>

 

[elle_71125]

Wow @elle_71125 She is so pretty!! Is that the setting she's going into! Your IRL pics look so beautiful. <plotting next purchase>

Yup. I bought it preloved off of DB a year or so ago. Time to utilize that baby! Thank you for the pic comments.

 

[ShinyPink]

I'm so happy you bought it @elle_71125 and shared your photos! It looks beautiful and I love the different phots in all the different lighting. I might be kinda jealous...

 

[elle_71125]

I'm so happy you bought it @elle_71125 and shared your photos! It looks beautiful and I love the different phots in all the different lighting. I might be kinda jealous...

Thank you. It can be so hard to interpret vendor pics (and I am terrible at it btw). Yvonne has a great return policy though so it's easy to purchase from her knowing I can send it back, if I don't love it. This purchase turned out pretty good IMO.

It's OK to be kinda jealous. I'm kinda jealous of a lot of beautiful gems & rings here on PS. @Acinom's paraiba ring, @NKOTB's spess ring, @mochiko42's zircon ring and paraiba ring, @aljdewey's glowing mint garnet ring, etc...that list goes on forever!!!