Question for Blenheim / Cavalier Spaniel Lovers

[sanfranciscoellen]

Blenheim...or anyone else who knows or loves Cavalier spaniels...

OK, so if it isn''t enough that I have three kids (one still under a year!), now I have puppy fever too. We lost our Basenji a year and a half ago and now that infant days are over I''m starting to think we neeeeeeeeeeeeed a new dog....three kids and two cats aren''t enough for a small urban flat, right?

I see you have a blenheim cavalier king charles spaniel as your avatar, and I thought maybe you could let me know more about this adorable breed, and who your little friend is!

We are looking for the ultimate family dog and everyone keeps pointing us in the cavalier direction.

Tell me what you love about yours!

 

[E B]

Date: 3/22/2006 5:08:57 PM
Author:wallermama
Blenheim...or anyone else who knows or loves Cavalier spaniels...

OK, so if it isn't enough that I have three kids (one still under a year!), now I have puppy fever too. We lost our Basenji a year and a half ago and now that infant days are over I'm starting to think we neeeeeeeeeeeeed a new dog....three kids and two cats aren't enough for a small urban flat, right?

I see you have a blenheim cavalier king charles spaniel as your avatar, and I thought maybe you could let me know more about this adorable breed, and who your little friend is!

We are looking for the ultimate family dog and everyone keeps pointing us in the cavalier direction.

Tell me what you love about yours!

Waller,

I thought long and hard about a Cavalier, too...they're small, sweet, and gorgeous little dogs. To be honest, though, two things made me look towards other breeds. #1, they're incredibly expensive. If you want a well-bred pup, they're in the thousands cost wise, just to adopt. #2 and most importantly, Cavaliers have horrible heart problems. MVD (mitral valve disorder) develops in half of Cavaliers by age 5 and almost all by age 10....

Here's a great website that lists the pros and cons of each breed:

http://www.yourpurebredpuppy.com/reviews/cavalierkingcharlesspaniels.html (for Cavaliers)

Read up on several breeds before deciding....I decided on a pug, They're not easy dogs either (respiratory problems are going to cost us $700 to fix), but they're little clowns and she fits my fiance's and my personality.

 

[FireGoddess]

I didn''t know the heart thing Ebree. I too am interested in this breed - if we ever were to get a dog, this breed is one I really love, but I know nothing about them and would love some info as well! I''m currently a cat person. But someday...

And I can''t help it - I just loved those SATC scenes with Charlotte and her Cavalier spaniel Elizabeth Taylor. So cute!

 

[E B]

Date: 3/22/2006 5:24:54 PM
Author: FireGoddess
I didn't know the heart thing Ebree. I too am interested in this breed - if we ever were to get a dog, this breed is one I really love, but I know nothing about them and would love some info as well! I'm currently a cat person. But someday...

And I can't help it - I just loved those SATC scenes with Charlotte and her Cavalier spaniel Elizabeth Taylor. So cute!

If you love, love LOVE Cavaliers but are worried about the heart problems, look at English Toy Spaniels. They're the cousins to the Cavaliers (I think) without the risks of MVD. They're a bit rare, though....my friend Hannah adopted one and he's as sweet as can be, but he doesn't really like other people. I doubt he'd be ideal for children.

 

[E B]

Waller, have you considered a Maltese?

http://www.yourpurebredpuppy.com/reviews/maltese.html

 

[Blenheim]

I''m happy to help!

Shelby, my "little friend" in my avatar, actually belongs to my parents, but I adore her. I also have puppy fever, and plan on getting a cavalier puppy over the summer.

Cavaliers are great with kids, and are often recommended as family dogs. I believe that they can adapt to different energy levels, so as long as they get walked regularly they''d be fine living in an apartment.

They''re a good size for apartment living. I think that to meet breed standard, they''re supposed to be from 12 to 18 pounds. The dog in my avatar is an astonishing 25 pounds, but she''s also taller than cavaliers really should be.

In many ways, Cavaliers behave more like larger hunting dogs than like small toy dogs. Shelby loves hunting, although she hunts butterflies and bees instead of bigger animals. We''ve caught her pointing sometimes.

Cavaliers are very sweet and attached to people. Shelby likes to just sit by someone''s side. She gets jealous if we''re using laptops or doing something like knitting, because our laps should belong to her! She can get excited, but she''s very good at sensing when people are upset or in pain and slowly comes up to them and tries to cuddle and comfort them. She didn''t leave my mom''s side for over a week after she last had surgery. When no one''s around the house, she always wants to sleep on my parents'' bed.

One thing that''s adorable and that we originally was unique to her (but have later discovered is a Cavalier trait) is her love of all fruits and vegetables. My mom has to really fence off the tomato plants, or she''ll eat tomatoes off the vine. She''ll make these wild jumps for apples on our apple tree, and it can be fun to watch her.

Okay, my boyfriend just got here for dinner, so I can answer more questions later.

Blenheim

 

[sanfranciscoellen]

Uggg! I am so torn about the purebreed issue!

We had a basenji and didn''t do our research...we were young. Basenjis are prone to the genetic disease Fanconi Syndrome, and we were unfortunate enough to have a dog that had it. She was a lucky one--they diagnosed her when she was five and said she would either die within the year or would live a more normal lifespan...luckily she was the latter and lived until she was 12.

BUT...

For seven years we dealt with doggy incontinence. Let me tell you, we practically signed a blood pact with each other NEVER to get a purebreed again.

But here we are looking for a dog that will be reliably good with kids, and it seems like it is so tempting to go with a breed, where you can be reasonably sure of their temperment.

But then...

We''ve all met a mutt or two that was "the best dog ever". It just seems to sometimes be the luck of the draw.

I''m torn.

 

[E B]

If you're open to a mutt, I say mutt all the way. The ONLY reason we decided on a purebred is because we knew we'd be living in small apartments for the next several years, and I was afraid we'd adopt a "Shepard Mix" (which they all seem to be at the pound, don't they?) that'd grow to be 70 lbs. Our pug is 12.5 lbs full grown, and we love that size. If we move into a bigger place with a yard and consider another dog, it'll most likely be a mutt.

 

[sanfranciscoellen]

Pugs are a hoot. My brother-in-law lives in the flat above us and fostered a Pug for the last three months. I still can''t get over the gobbling snorting sound of a pug sniffing around! She was hilarious. Could dig up a dried cat poop faster than a truffle-hunting pig!

 

[E B]

Date: 3/22/2006 5:41:42 PM
Author: wallermama
Pugs are a hoot. My brother-in-law lives in the flat above us and fostered a Pug for the last three months. I still can''t get over the gobbling snorting sound of a pug sniffing around! She was hilarious. Could dig up a dried cat poop faster than a truffle-hunting pig!

LOL isn''t that the truth! She constantly makes us laugh, and I love her little sniffles and snorts. She''s GREAT with people, and a total velcro dog...if she''s not sitting in my lap, she''s NOT happy. The only thing I wish I''d known is how much they shed....our house is COVERED in hair. I have to sweep once a week or so (when we move into a place with carpet, it''ll be much easier to vacuum) and you wouldn''t believe the hair...we could make a new pug every week out of the piles I sweep!

 

[Diachi]

Date: 3/22/2006 5:36:09 PM
Author: wallermama
Uggg! I am so torn about the purebreed issue!

We had a basenji and didn't do our research...we were young. Basenjis are prone to the genetic disease Fanconi Syndrome, and we were unfortunate enough to have a dog that had it. She was a lucky one--they diagnosed her when she was five and said she would either die within the year or would live a more normal lifespan...luckily she was the latter and lived until she was 12.

BUT...

For seven years we dealt with doggy incontinence. Let me tell you, we practically signed a blood pact with each other NEVER to get a purebreed again.

But here we are looking for a dog that will be reliably good with kids, and it seems like it is so tempting to go with a breed, where you can be reasonably sure of their temperment.

Food for thought-A popular school of thought is that purebreds are more prone to genetic diseases then mutts. And with small gene pools and tight linebreeding, disease can and will make itself apparent eventually. But let's look at it from another point of view. Many "mutts" are accidental breedings of two (or more) purebred dogs. Instead of know exactly what diseases and issues to look for in a dog due to its breed, you are looking at a possible combination of two, three, or four purebreeds and all the diseases that those breeds are prone too. Does this make one more or less healthy? I guess it depends on which school of thought you aree with or have had experience with.

In purebred (AKC is the registry recognized by other countries and therefore the registry that one should look for when searching for a common breed of dog) dogs, a responsible, experienced, and reputable breeder is akin to the "CUT" concept in diamonds. Most people think they understand what it means but surrounded by "jewels" (aka puppies, fancy websites, and confusing lingo), it is hard to keep all the information straight and to ask the right questions. "Under the store's lights," it is easy to be swept away by the emotion involved and to ignore the facts on who is producing most of the pet dogs (backyard breeders and puppy mills) in America. IMHO, it doesn't matter why someone breeds a dog. It does, however, matter that both dogs have gone through all necessary health checks and certifications, have sound temperaments, are structurally sound, and are good at whatever it is that they are expected to do (shutzhund, tracking, conformation, service work, agility, herding, etc.)

Cavaliers are WONDERFUL family dogs. I have good friend that only breed for their next show dog/house pet and in doing so, spend thousands of dollars on importing new bloodlines from England, taking all their dogs to a specialty veterinarian over 8 hours away ANNUAL for heart checks and still loose about 3 out of every 10 dogs to heart issues. And they consider themselves to have had good luck when it comes to dealing with the common Chronic Cardio Valve Disease or Mitral Valve Disease. http://www.ackcsc.org/

If you're looking for other suggestions, how about a Boston Terrier (if you like rough-and-tumble), an English Cocker Spaniel (although they, like most Spaniels can be fear biters), a Japanese Chin (if your children are able to properly handle a smaller breed), a Papillion (again, only if your kids are reliable with small dogs), an Irish Terrier (great, medium-sized dog that is generally less "terrier" then the others), or a Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever (a "new" AKC breed that is supposed to be great with families and kids and is similar to a Cavalier King Charles Spaniel/Golden Retriever/Aussie mix in appearance). http://www.nsdtrc-usa.org/

 

[rainbowtrout]

having always had huge dogs, I can''t chime in on the spaniel issue, but I can say that we''ve had a black Akita Inu who''s purebred/show quality and she''s never had a breed related health problem. She''s had cancer once and a knee problem, that''s pretty much it.

We did have an awful experiance with our other, white Akita. I''d be wary of white animals in general..make sure there is no history of skin problems.

 

[ursulawrite]

I agree with Diachi about the Boston Terrier suggestion. I have a three-year-old BT and she is an incredible dog.

BTs rarely bark, they shed little, they are fantastic with kids (mine snuggles up to my one-year-old nephew and plays fetch, endlessly, with his five-year-old brother) and love everybody and everything. And they are the smartest little critters, too.

My girl is the picture of health (touch wood) but we made sure to go to a top breeder who shows her dogs in obedience and conformation, and who health tests for luxating patellas, juvenile cataracts and deafness (a common issue if the dog is a "mismark" and has a white head), the main BT afflictions. She is breed standard in every way -- short, cobby, with beautiful un-googly eyes and always up for some fun without being hyperactive.

 

[strmrdr]

If I was going to get a pure-breed it would be a wire-haired terrier.
As long as they get enough exercise and romping with kids is perfect they are great dogs.
A friend had one growing up and we had a mix that was her son and an unknown dad for 12 years. Great dogs.
They are a healthy breed with few problems and they are small enough for apartments yet tough enough for kids.

edit: they also dont shed and are great with kids.

 

[fatafelice]

Diachi is spot-on correct. A true, responsible and reputable breeder is only interested in the health and temperment of thier dogs. My mom breeds American Cocker Spaniels and is extraordinarily careful about testing for the eye problems that are common to the breed. I have definitely met many a great mutt in my life and one of my dogs is a rescue, but I generally think buying from someone who will stand behind the health of their puppies is the best way to go. My mom, and others I am sure, offers a lifetime gaurantee that the puppies she breeds will be free of known genetic health problems or she will replace them. In 20+ years, she has never had to do so.

On another note, I''d like to argue that not all spaniels are "fear biters." I''ve never had a cocker bite me (other than puppy nibbles), and I have been around them since I was an infant. I''m not saying that biters aren''t out there. Within the cocker breed, parti-colored dogs tend to be more high-strung and I have met a few that could bite if scared or provoked. Black cockers tend to be more mellow, and buffs fall somewhere in between. Much of it is in the breeding and raising. Again, a responsible breeder would not breed a dog that has a temperment problem. Most cockers I know will just lie there and take about anything -- or remove themselves from the problem.

Finally, I also have a question about Cavaliers, because as much as I love cockers, I think I''d like to branch out a little when it comes time to get another dog. My only complaint about my cocker is, although she doesn''t really shed, she must get a haircut about every six weeks or so (which we do ourselves, because the groomers do a crappy job). And if her coat is long, she must be brushed every week or she mats horribly. What are the grooming requirements of Cavaliers, if any one knows? They seem to have less coat, which makes me think they might require a little less maintenence.

Sorry for the lengthy post!

 

[fatafelice]

Another plug for cockers! ( I know, shameless

)

This little girl is from my mom''s last litter. She''s a silver buff. Silvers are actually a "dilute black," resulting from a recessive gene in black to black breedings. In temperment, they are like black cockers, but they carry less coat. As much as I love blacks and black and tans, if I get another cocker, I want a silver!

 

[Blenheim]

Date: 3/23/2006 5:39:08 PM
Author: fatafelice
Finally, I also have a question about Cavaliers, because as much as I love cockers, I think I'd like to branch out a little when it comes time to get another dog. My only complaint about my cocker is, although she doesn't really shed, she must get a haircut about every six weeks or so (which we do ourselves, because the groomers do a crappy job). And if her coat is long, she must be brushed every week or she mats horribly. What are the grooming requirements of Cavaliers, if any one knows? They seem to have less coat, which makes me think they might require a little less maintenence.

Technically, Cavaliers can't have their hair cut if they're going to be shown. Their hair does mat though, and they need to be brushed out pretty regularly. Sometimes I think that Shelby goes out of her way to do things that might mat her hair. My mom's given up, and just cuts it from time to time.

Cockers might have the same problem, but Cavaliers' ears drag in their food when they eat and get horribly messy. My mom tucks Shelby's ears into her collar when she eats, which seems to do the trick.

And, there's the typical nail-cutting, etc, type of grooming needs too.

ETA: By "cut", I really mean that she trims off the mats. Shelby never gets an all-out haircut.

 

[Blenheim]

Oh my gosh, she''s the cutest little thing.

The only cocker I''ve really known was pretty skittish and at times anti-social. Is that a breed characteristic, or was she abnormal? I''m asking because I''m not 100% set on a Cavalier puppy (although I really really want one), and I''m trying to get a good feel for other breeds.

 

[fatafelice]

Date: 3/23/2006 5:52:01 PM
Author: Blenheim

Technically, Cavaliers can''t have their hair cut if they''re going to be shown. Their hair does mat though, and they need to be brushed out pretty regularly. Sometimes I think that Shelby goes out of her way to do things that might mat her hair. My mom''s given up, and just cuts it from time to time.

That''s sounds about the same as cockers! My mom''s dogs in full show coat are practically a full-time job!

Cockers might have the same problem, but Cavaliers'' ears drag in their food when they eat and get horribly messy. My mom tucks Shelby''s ears into her collar when she eats, which seems to do the trick.

LOL! Cockers definitely have that problem. When Tink comes in from outside (esp. in the fall) she inevitably has a leaf or twig stuck in her ears. I have a "snood" for her -- its a tube of fabric, elasticized on each end, that holds thier ears inside so they don''t get mucky when they eat -- she hates wearing it though, so I don''t usually bother. I''ll have to try that collar trick.

And, there''s the typical nail-cutting, etc, type of grooming needs too.

 

[sanfranciscoellen]

OH. MY. GOD.


That spaniel pup is about the cutest thing I have ever ever seen! Can I just have her and be done with the search?

I''ve spent time online today with local San francisco rescue organizations, and the basic word is, if you have little kids, you''d better start with a pup. Terriers etc apparently need to be around them from puphood to co-exist peacefully. And the only pups out there are pits pits pits. No thanks! I feel so badly for that breed...I know that they can be sweet.

Hmmm...I really really appreciate the advice!

About genetic defects...I thought that the point of purebreds is that they have recessive defects that surface when paired with like breeds. I think, if I can remember that darn gene square with recessives and dominants and all, that even two purebreds of diff breeds w/ defects would be fine unless their defect was dominant or the same one. But I got a C on that heredity test....

 

[fatafelice]

Date: 3/23/2006 5:54:09 PM
Author: Blenheim
Oh my gosh, she''s the cutest little thing.

The only cocker I''ve really known was pretty skittish and at times anti-social. Is that a breed characteristic, or was she abnormal? I''m asking because I''m not 100% set on a Cavalier puppy (although I really really want one), and I''m trying to get a good feel for other breeds.

I defininitely don''t feel that kind of temperment is characteristic of the breed! It can happen, I guess, but all of our cockers have been complete lovers and attention wh*res. Always a good idea to check out the parents. And, of course, training and home environment factors in.

You mentioned that your mom never has to completely cut down your dog -- do you know if their coat is considered hair or fur? In cockers, they have hair, so it always grows. Without a haircut, my dog starts to look like a sheep. Even the show dogs get little trims and thinning out, or their coats would drag on the floor.

Sorry about the thread hijacking, Wallermama!

 

[Blenheim]

On genetic defects:

The website that EBree recommended has a section on purebreds vs. mixes. It addresses why genetic defects more commonly occur in purebreds, but also mentions what Diachi said about how with mutts, you can get the genetic defects of their ancestors cropping up. You can look here for specifics.

 

[E B]

I've never met a skittish Cocker Spaniel. I love, love love the breed, and it was another I researched as well. Fatafelice, have you heard anything about/experienced their skin smelling? The website I posted above warns about this (I believe it was the article above!) and I wondered how true it really was.

I love when their owners shave the top of their bodies, leaving the fringe on the bottom...they look like little ottomans!

 

[Blenheim]

Date: 3/23/2006 6:06:19 PM
Author: fatafelice
You mentioned that your mom never has to completely cut down your dog -- do you know if their coat is considered hair or fur? In cockers, they have hair, so it always grows. Without a haircut, my dog starts to look like a sheep. Even the show dogs get little trims and thinning out, or their coats would drag on the floor.

Her coat is naturally the same length all the time. It''s a little longer on her ears and legs, but not as long as hair is on some dogs. I suppose that that makes it fur.

 

[sanfranciscoellen]

OK I''ll fess up...these are the moments where I slip into the world of Harry Potter (my seven year old got me hooked) and I want whip out my wand so that I can conjure up the perfect dog with all of my criteria right this very second...poof! I''ll make up a spell...caninius perfectus!

My BIL''s GF was a vet tech for ten years and said that cockers were ruined by overbreeding--they have bad hot spots on the skin, and are, to put it bluntly, crazy. I''m so so so glad to hear there are still healthy cockers and reputable breeders out there! they are so precious!

 

[fatafelice]

Most people, especially vets, have cocker spaniel horror stories. Whenever I take my mom or I take our cockers to a new vet, they are always amazed. Overbreeding did a lot of damamge to the breed, but that was overbreeding by people who didn''t know or care what they were doing. The lower cockers sink on the breed popularity list, the happier my mom is, because it means fewer people are breeding indiscriminately just to meet the demand. There are many dedicated breeders out there. For a history teacher, my mom knows a lot about genetics -- she has to. It is true that recessive genes can crop up, but those are the ones that my mom an others are trying to "breed out" of thier bloodlines. If any of my mom''s pups came up with hereditary cataracts, for example, she would neuter the sire and dam and give them to loving homes, rather than ever chance breeding them again, and she would require that any existing pups be neutered by their new owners (which is her general request anyway). For the same reasons, cockers are never bred before they are three years old. If I''m not wrong, many breeds have also begun genentic testing to try and eliminate any recessive genes from their breeding populations.

 

[fatafelice]

Date: 3/23/2006 6:10:41 PM
Author: EBree
I''ve never met a skittish Cocker Spaniel. I love, love love the breed, and it was another I researched as well. Fatafelice, have you heard anything about/experienced their skin smelling? The website I posted above warns about this (I believe it was the article above!) and I wondered how true it really was.

We''ve only ever had one dog with skin problems and she was purchased from another breeder. It can happen, but I don''t think it is commonplace. In that particular dog, it was caused by thyroid problems and it didn''t develop until she was older.

I love when their owners shave the top of their bodies, leaving the fringe on the bottom...they look like little ottomans!

LOL! That is absolutely how I like to keep my Tinker, since I can''t maintain a show coat. We call it a "puppy cut."

 

[sanfranciscoellen]

Fatafelice, where is your mom? Where is that pup?

Does she give a pricescope discount for wire transfers? Ha ha ha....

 

[fatafelice]

My mom is in Jacksonville, FL and I''m not sure if she still has that particular pup, but she has one or two litters a year and knows other breeders all over the east coast that she could recommend.

I hope it is okay to post it, but this is her website. You can also check out the American Spaniel Club site. It has tons of info on the breed and breeder lists for each state. My mom isn''t on there, but that is by choice so she doesn''t get millions of phonecalls. I would say that most listed ASC breeders are reputable, but there are a few crazies out there in the dog world, so check them (and thier dogs) out carefully.