evil_unicorn
Rough_Rock
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Questions about heated/unheated sapphire
- Thread starter evil_unicorn
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evil_unicorn
Rough_Rock
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Oops, accidentally posted before putting in the content!
So I have been searching for a bright blue spinel for awhile now (more than a year+) but it has proven to be way too difficult as it often comes with a hint of grey or it’s darkish which is not what I liked. What I had in mind was a royal blue or cornflower blue with a tiny bit of grey which I thought I can compromise but I guessed wrong since I haven’t found any blue spinels that I liked AND can afford.
So now I’ve upped my budget and am open to buying a sapphire instead.
I’ve recently engaged with a seller who found me two sapphires that I like. One is heated in royal blue colour and one is unheated in cornflower blue. Both very beautiful, but I haven’t made up my mind yet..
So my question is...
If I were to purchase an unheated sapphire, will I have to take extra care when wearing it to ensure it’s nowhere close to a heat source? E.g. cook stove, hot bath, hot shower...etc
And if the stone was to get close to a heat source, will the colour changed overtime?
This is probably a silly question but in case I do end up getting the unheated sapphire, I don’t want to wreck it.
Btw, is there anyway to pay Sri Lanka sellers via credit card payment? PayPal is not available so can’t use that.
This is going to be a huge purchase for me and I’m gutted just thinking of all the things that could go wrong with the transaction.
So I have been searching for a bright blue spinel for awhile now (more than a year+) but it has proven to be way too difficult as it often comes with a hint of grey or it’s darkish which is not what I liked. What I had in mind was a royal blue or cornflower blue with a tiny bit of grey which I thought I can compromise but I guessed wrong since I haven’t found any blue spinels that I liked AND can afford.
So now I’ve upped my budget and am open to buying a sapphire instead.
I’ve recently engaged with a seller who found me two sapphires that I like. One is heated in royal blue colour and one is unheated in cornflower blue. Both very beautiful, but I haven’t made up my mind yet..
So my question is...
If I were to purchase an unheated sapphire, will I have to take extra care when wearing it to ensure it’s nowhere close to a heat source? E.g. cook stove, hot bath, hot shower...etc
And if the stone was to get close to a heat source, will the colour changed overtime?
This is probably a silly question but in case I do end up getting the unheated sapphire, I don’t want to wreck it.
Btw, is there anyway to pay Sri Lanka sellers via credit card payment? PayPal is not available so can’t use that.
This is going to be a huge purchase for me and I’m gutted just thinking of all the things that could go wrong with the transaction.
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Hi,
Unless you fall into a furnace or volcano, you won’t be accidentally heat treating your sapphire. Though interestingly there has been some evidence of a jeweller torch (used in the setting / creation of the mount) affecting the rutile silk inclusions. It would be an unlikely and unusual event in any regard and if concerned use a jeweller who is using laser rather than traditional butane torch.
The bigger issue is buying Internationally from unknown vendors.
Firstly, when it comes to unheated status you want a reputable lab certificate. There are “fake or discredited” gem labs out there and care must be taken that the lab certificate is both genuine and reliable.
Secondly with heat treatment there is “heat only” which is entirely acceptable and there is heat with residues (that’s using flux to fill in any fissures in the gem) and heat with Beryllium treatment (this is to improve colour). Gems that are flux/ glass filled and/or BE treated are worth very little.
So even with heated gems you need a reputable lab certificate to confirm that it is “heat only”.
Secondly buying internationally you need to know what import duties/taxes you might be liable for to import the gem.
Thirdly buying internationally you need to know what shipping and insurance costs are AND if the gem doesn’t meet with your satisfaction, what is the return and refund policy. It can be difficult and expensive to return gems to some countries.
Fourthly, if paying by credit card you have protection if nothing is received. I wouldnt be paying by bank wire or bank draft, there is no recourse with these payment methods.
Is the vendor recommended here?
Fifthly, be aware that certain colours / tones / hues are more expensive than others and the “labelling” by a vendor may not be accurate.
Many international vendors are reputable and frequently and happily used by PSers.
If you would like an opinion on the sapphires you are considering, post up the photos here and the price.
Unless you fall into a furnace or volcano, you won’t be accidentally heat treating your sapphire. Though interestingly there has been some evidence of a jeweller torch (used in the setting / creation of the mount) affecting the rutile silk inclusions. It would be an unlikely and unusual event in any regard and if concerned use a jeweller who is using laser rather than traditional butane torch.
The bigger issue is buying Internationally from unknown vendors.
Firstly, when it comes to unheated status you want a reputable lab certificate. There are “fake or discredited” gem labs out there and care must be taken that the lab certificate is both genuine and reliable.
Secondly with heat treatment there is “heat only” which is entirely acceptable and there is heat with residues (that’s using flux to fill in any fissures in the gem) and heat with Beryllium treatment (this is to improve colour). Gems that are flux/ glass filled and/or BE treated are worth very little.
So even with heated gems you need a reputable lab certificate to confirm that it is “heat only”.
Secondly buying internationally you need to know what import duties/taxes you might be liable for to import the gem.
Thirdly buying internationally you need to know what shipping and insurance costs are AND if the gem doesn’t meet with your satisfaction, what is the return and refund policy. It can be difficult and expensive to return gems to some countries.
Fourthly, if paying by credit card you have protection if nothing is received. I wouldnt be paying by bank wire or bank draft, there is no recourse with these payment methods.
Is the vendor recommended here?
Fifthly, be aware that certain colours / tones / hues are more expensive than others and the “labelling” by a vendor may not be accurate.
Many international vendors are reputable and frequently and happily used by PSers.
If you would like an opinion on the sapphires you are considering, post up the photos here and the price.
Cerulean
Ideal_Rock
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I’m now curious about seeing the stones! Those names (royal blue / cornflower) can describe a lot of different shades - but are definitely different.
Do you want us to help you decide between the two? Are you hoping to have help finding a different option? If you provide your budget and other hopes - I’m sure people can help you if you aren’t feeling terribly secure about this option with buying overseas!
I’ve had success buying overseas, and some vendors *do* take PayPal, but many don’t. I’ve used PayPal with two different overseas vendors, so it does depend. There are inherent risks with buying overseas and it really isn’t the best option for everyone. I’d also recommend a certification from a reputable lab especially if you are risk averse (and that’s a very reasonable request that a vendor should accommodate)
Do you want us to help you decide between the two? Are you hoping to have help finding a different option? If you provide your budget and other hopes - I’m sure people can help you if you aren’t feeling terribly secure about this option with buying overseas!
I’ve had success buying overseas, and some vendors *do* take PayPal, but many don’t. I’ve used PayPal with two different overseas vendors, so it does depend. There are inherent risks with buying overseas and it really isn’t the best option for everyone. I’d also recommend a certification from a reputable lab especially if you are risk averse (and that’s a very reasonable request that a vendor should accommodate)
True-blue spinel must be way rarer than sapphire. I don't know that I have seen a really vivid blue spinel with no gray in > 0.5-ct size from any vendor. (I am not including the myriad doctored eBay photos.)
As @Bron357 says above, there are many treatments. I know spinels are typically untreated but the top blues are so sought after and pricey now that I'm sure anything goes.
As @Bron357 says above, there are many treatments. I know spinels are typically untreated but the top blues are so sought after and pricey now that I'm sure anything goes.
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If an overseas vendor doesn’t accept PayPal or a credit card I wouldn’t risk the transaction.
While the vast majority of vendors are reputable and reliable, sending a large sum of money across to another country with no recourse if nothing turns up, isn’t worth the risk in my opinion. If it’s a purchase of $100 or so, fair enough, but thousands? No.
While the vast majority of vendors are reputable and reliable, sending a large sum of money across to another country with no recourse if nothing turns up, isn’t worth the risk in my opinion. If it’s a purchase of $100 or so, fair enough, but thousands? No.
evil_unicorn
Rough_Rock
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Thank you @Bron357 for your detailed response and @Cerulean for the offer of finding different options! I actually found the seller (gemocean) through you via @ean's post when you were helping her out! All of the recommendation to her was so beautiful I had to check him out on IG.
While checking his IG page I saw a round sapphire that captured my eyes and I DM him for details.. and here we are!
The first stone is a 2.17 unheated round sapphire, 7.1mm (USD$3000)
And the second is a huge 3.28 carat, heated round sapphire, 8.1mm (also USD$3000).
I'll figure out how to upload photos & videos in my next post!
My original requirement for the spinel was that I was hoping I could find a nice big stone since spinel is supposed to be cheaper than Sapphire. I didn't really have a budget but I knew I didn't want to spend fortune on it. Now that I am looking for a sapphire, I have set myself a budget of AUD$5000 (USD$38xx) including setting. In saying that, if I see a stone that I really really like, I'm happy to spend almost all my budget on the stone and put it in a setting I already have, or find a cheap setting that costs $100-200.
Colour wise... I think I like the vivid cornflower blue some PSers have got, like OTL's
While checking his IG page I saw a round sapphire that captured my eyes and I DM him for details.. and here we are!
The first stone is a 2.17 unheated round sapphire, 7.1mm (USD$3000)
And the second is a huge 3.28 carat, heated round sapphire, 8.1mm (also USD$3000).
I'll figure out how to upload photos & videos in my next post!
My original requirement for the spinel was that I was hoping I could find a nice big stone since spinel is supposed to be cheaper than Sapphire. I didn't really have a budget but I knew I didn't want to spend fortune on it. Now that I am looking for a sapphire, I have set myself a budget of AUD$5000 (USD$38xx) including setting. In saying that, if I see a stone that I really really like, I'm happy to spend almost all my budget on the stone and put it in a setting I already have, or find a cheap setting that costs $100-200.
Colour wise... I think I like the vivid cornflower blue some PSers have got, like OTL's
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evil_unicorn
Rough_Rock
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Yeah that's my biggest concern.. I know @Cerulean had a successful purchase with gem ocean, but, USD$3000 is a huge sum to me and I would be in soooo much trouble with my hubby (lol) if something goes wrong with the transaction.
I've asked the seller about return policy and pretty much.... he didn't give me a straight yes or no answer, just that it is going to be very costly for both buyer & seller because return shipping would be high, and the conversion/transaction fee he has to cough up for refund would mean that he made a lost, which I 100% understand where he is coming from as a seller, but from a buyer's perspective.....
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When I buy internationally I make sure I am 99% sure of the purchase because of the expense and hassle to do a return.
obviously a vendor will expect you to bear any costs if you decide to return ie the shipping both ways and any fees the payment portal levies (eg PayPal is 3%) and the exchange rate implications are usually another cost (rates used for conversion always have a commission/ fee built into them). And if you’ve paid customs or import taxes, you need to investigate beforehand, what the procedure is to receive a refund if the gem is returned to origin. This may also involve extra costs. you may or may not be eligible for a refund of import taxes, it might take months to process a refund.
So you could spend $300 or more of your $3,000 purchase to “not keep that gemstone”.
Anyone will tell you that the gems always seem to look better in the vendors photos or videos than they do in real life. Vendors always make their wares look as good as possible. Where you live, what time of year, the type of indoor lighting can all affect how a gemstone looks to your eyes. Also, a coloured gem usually darkens in tone after setting.
This is my sapphire, different levels of light,
obviously a vendor will expect you to bear any costs if you decide to return ie the shipping both ways and any fees the payment portal levies (eg PayPal is 3%) and the exchange rate implications are usually another cost (rates used for conversion always have a commission/ fee built into them). And if you’ve paid customs or import taxes, you need to investigate beforehand, what the procedure is to receive a refund if the gem is returned to origin. This may also involve extra costs. you may or may not be eligible for a refund of import taxes, it might take months to process a refund.
So you could spend $300 or more of your $3,000 purchase to “not keep that gemstone”.
Anyone will tell you that the gems always seem to look better in the vendors photos or videos than they do in real life. Vendors always make their wares look as good as possible. Where you live, what time of year, the type of indoor lighting can all affect how a gemstone looks to your eyes. Also, a coloured gem usually darkens in tone after setting.
This is my sapphire, different levels of light,
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evil_unicorn
Rough_Rock
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evil_unicorn
Rough_Rock
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Thanks @Bron357! I've never thought about the procedure of returning the stone back to the origin country. I always thought of it as an easy process where you fly the stone back, the seller receives it and refund you the money on payal (which in this case bank transfer). Gem ocean mentioned about export tax & custom fees so that is definitely involved for this transaction. I guess I need to do more research on google before I rush into anything!
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I second (third?) the previous advice about doing your research on just what additional fees you will have with over country shipments. Different countries have different rules /fees.
I personally would feel better starting out with smaller/less expensive learner stones with a vendor like this to learn what to expect with the vendors photos/listings vs what I saw in my environment and proceed to the more expensive ones. Or, I would be dang sure I’m ok with the whole return transaction taking a while to finish and be ok and expectant with eating all the fees involved.
Assuming it’s even possible back to the country - some are not, without outright false shipment paperwork and all liability will be on you. I don’t know if this applies to the stones you are talking about though- I didn’t look to see where they are located.
And when I say ‘vendor like this’ I don’t mean untrustworthy. I mean overseas to me IG based close to source non B&M type customer service and where their offerings seem to get snached up quickly.
I too, wish natural spinels were plentiful in the sapphire colors you linked of @OTL and @Acinom It sure would be easier.
man made spinel might come close -some more than others- but I do find they are lacking in color nuances and personality that natural stones have, to my tastes.
@Bron357
Every time I see this lovely sapphire of yours - the faceting pattern it has just really grabs me
I personally would feel better starting out with smaller/less expensive learner stones with a vendor like this to learn what to expect with the vendors photos/listings vs what I saw in my environment and proceed to the more expensive ones. Or, I would be dang sure I’m ok with the whole return transaction taking a while to finish and be ok and expectant with eating all the fees involved.
Assuming it’s even possible back to the country - some are not, without outright false shipment paperwork and all liability will be on you. I don’t know if this applies to the stones you are talking about though- I didn’t look to see where they are located.
And when I say ‘vendor like this’ I don’t mean untrustworthy. I mean overseas to me IG based close to source non B&M type customer service and where their offerings seem to get snached up quickly.
I too, wish natural spinels were plentiful in the sapphire colors you linked of @OTL and @Acinom It sure would be easier.
man made spinel might come close -some more than others- but I do find they are lacking in color nuances and personality that natural stones have, to my tastes.
@Bron357
Every time I see this lovely sapphire of yours - the faceting pattern it has just really grabs me
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peacechick
Brilliant_Rock
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Both stones are beautiful but Stone 1 stands out to me as being more cornflower blue. Stone 2 is darker and slightly more violet but still blue. They both look perfectly cut. My guess is Stone 1 will not have any extinction at all.
About blue spinels, the only really pure blue are the famous Luc Yen blue spinels. They are so rare, I don’t think I have seen many examples pass through in the hallowed halls of PS. And probably cost more than sapphires!
About blue spinels, the only really pure blue are the famous Luc Yen blue spinels. They are so rare, I don’t think I have seen many examples pass through in the hallowed halls of PS. And probably cost more than sapphires!
Cerulean
Ideal_Rock
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Very pretty sapphires. I especially like the first! The cut is really pretty and it seems to be lively. Although the 2nd is closer to to your inspo images, but deeper in color. They both have different flavors.
So, Gemocean has historically basically only dealt with wholesale vendors, not direct to consumer. He’s very nice and honest, but can’t offer the same protections that a different US based vendor can. When I purchased from him, I assumed returns were a non option. Not because he wouldn’t consider it, but due to the complexity of the returns, the paperwork, the possible fees, etc. I went into the purchase knowing I was taking a big risk, and that I would be better off reselling locally if I was unhappy. That’s the price of getting a much less expensive stone further up the supply chain IMO. I never could have afforded my sapphire from a US vendor, so I tolerated the risks. I’m trying to be forthright just so you know exactly what to expect and can make the best choice for you!
So, Gemocean has historically basically only dealt with wholesale vendors, not direct to consumer. He’s very nice and honest, but can’t offer the same protections that a different US based vendor can. When I purchased from him, I assumed returns were a non option. Not because he wouldn’t consider it, but due to the complexity of the returns, the paperwork, the possible fees, etc. I went into the purchase knowing I was taking a big risk, and that I would be better off reselling locally if I was unhappy. That’s the price of getting a much less expensive stone further up the supply chain IMO. I never could have afforded my sapphire from a US vendor, so I tolerated the risks. I’m trying to be forthright just so you know exactly what to expect and can make the best choice for you!
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Cerulean
Ideal_Rock
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I messaged Gemocean about a lovely blue sapphire. Super nice and reminded me I'd already inquired about it. Oops. When he mentioned the additional $200 shipping fee, I remembered why I didn't buy that stone! None of the vendors have charged me this, and I'm assuming they just built it into the stone's cost. Adding the $200 made a great buy an "eh" buy. I would buy from him in a heartbeat if it weren't for the shipping.
Bottom line, I prefer to not know what the shipping cost is and have it part of the stone's cost, or at least split it with me. So shoot me.
Bottom line, I prefer to not know what the shipping cost is and have it part of the stone's cost, or at least split it with me. So shoot me.
Cerulean
Ideal_Rock
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Honestly - that's good feedback for him! Granted the onus is not on the consumer to explain - but I hope he adjusts if others feel the same!
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I reuse settings all the time, so many gems, so little $$$.
If gem is the right size and shape for an existing setting, the prongs can be retipped and used again. Here in Sydney I pay between $200 and $400 for this.
If you are adding a whole new “head” to any existing ring band, the head alone will be a few hundred dollars, that’s before removing old head and soldering on the new head and then the actual setting of the gem . So you’d be up for maybe $500 to use an existing ring.
I wouldnt be putting a $5,000 gem into a cheap silver ring mount. Silver can be both brittle and bendy, so not recommended for valuable gemstones.
Dont skimp on the setting, save up a bit longer if necessary.
If gem is the right size and shape for an existing setting, the prongs can be retipped and used again. Here in Sydney I pay between $200 and $400 for this.
If you are adding a whole new “head” to any existing ring band, the head alone will be a few hundred dollars, that’s before removing old head and soldering on the new head and then the actual setting of the gem . So you’d be up for maybe $500 to use an existing ring.
I wouldnt be putting a $5,000 gem into a cheap silver ring mount. Silver can be both brittle and bendy, so not recommended for valuable gemstones.
Dont skimp on the setting, save up a bit longer if necessary.
evil_unicorn
Rough_Rock
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Okay not $100... definitely can’t get any setting for that price!
But depending on gold price, I might be able to get a simple solitaire setting with no diamonds for $200-$300 custom made in China.
Stone not being calibrated is a good point! I’ll need to look into it, but if it’s custom made setting would it be easier?
evil_unicorn
Rough_Rock
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Thanks @Bron357, this is really good to know. I’ve got a replica engagement ring in 18k gold, and I was thinking if doable I’ll take the stone out and put the sapphire in. But this will only work if the sapphire is round and in similar size (7-7.5mm).
If I end up getting a different shape, I’ll have to get a new setting all together.
Cerulean
Ideal_Rock
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Okay not $100... definitely can’t get any setting for that price!
But depending on gold price, I might be able to get a simple solitaire setting with no diamonds for $200-$300 custom made in China.
Stone not being calibrated is a good point! I’ll need to look into it, but if it’s custom made setting would it be easier?
Sometimes native cuts are a bit wonky - all of mine are in their own way and non of them would fit in a stock setting. However they are all ovals, one very deep, one very “fat” and the other a bit asymmetrical. They require custom. Round might be a lot simpler- check depth of the ones you are considering! I’ve never reused a setting before - so definitely not able to give much advice beyond that unfortunately.
Ivy and rose also has some really pretty inexpensive settings too if you go with a different shape.
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