Ragdoll owners- how did you find yours?

[BigDiamonds]

I have been lusting after a puppy for a LONG time now, but I just couldn''t justify bringing a dog into our current townhouse lifestyle.

So I thought I would get the next best (or maybe better

) thing- a ragdoll kitten!

The problem is that I just don''t know where to start...how did all of you find reputable breeders for your kittens? I want to make sure that they are healthy and raised humanely, and also won''t have any genetic defects from bad breeding. Are there any good tools for separating the responsible breeders from the others?

I live in Colorado, so my options seem to be limited if I buy locally (curse these darn square states in the middle!

). Ideas?

 

[poptart]

Ragdoll International might be a place to start.

*M*

ETA: There are LOTS of kitty pictures to look at!! Eep!

 

[BigDiamonds]

I like that site. Can I go wrong with a kitten that is TICA registered?

 

[Lynn B]

OK... this is probably going to be long.

I am NO expert, by far... we have only ever *bought* one cat in all our lives (we have always had rescue pets), but we did purchase a Ragdoll kitten recently from a breeder in my state.

The kitten, Boo, is 100% adorable, and we LOVE him to pieces. However, the whole *breeder* experience was VERY disappointing and I while I would definitely own another Raggie some day, I would not use the same breeder again, nor recommend her.

For one thing, we overpaid. We were verbally told that he would be $xxx amount of dollars, including neutering. Well, once we had chosen our kitten (aka: fallen in love) and paid the deposit, we were informed that "...oh, no, no, no... neutering (mandatory before she would let him go) would be $100 extra." And "don't forget the SALES TAX" (rather significant on the amount we were paying)! Also, NONE of his registration paperwork/pedigree/etc. was included in the purchase price...although she gave the (verbal) impression that it would be. Of course I have no e-mail or other documentation to prove that, though. She also didn't send him with a toy, a blanket, or even any food (although she did give us a "New Kitty Sample Pack", but the box had been opened and the actual food and treats samples had been REMOVED -- all that was in there were a few coupons! I thought that was just ridiculous.

We visited her cattery several times (and yes, she is an approved breeder with ALL of the cat associations) and she does have a lot of good things going. The cattery was clean, and spacious, virtually no "cages" (she did keep her male breeder cat in a very large cage with a cat tree, and a window, etc., but from what I've read, that's not unusual)... she did have some of the younger litters separated by baby gates from the older litters... and she seemed to really be crazy about her cats... she won't let them go until 12-14 weeks of age, all of the adult cats (moms and dad) were there to see and hold... but still, something undefinable kind of niggled at me each time we went. I still can't quite figure out what it is/was... and I just chalked it up to being inexperienced (not knowing what to expect) about buying a pedigreed cat from a breeder. I still can't quite put my finger on it... but I don't think the kittens are socialized enough, for one thing. Her cattery is a distinctly separate area of her home, and the kittens don't get seem to get much exposure to the hustle/bustle daily activities of family life. Whether that impacted him significantly, I don't know. She also became very neglilgent about responding to my e-mails and questions once she had our money. Before then, she had been very responsive and attentive.

Also, the day we picked him up, she casually informed us that he had a "very slight heart murmur." Now, we had chosen this kitten a month earlier, we had had a LOT of correspondence, and she never mentioned ANYTHING to me until the day she put him in our arms to take home. We took him straight to our vet (a pre-arranged appointment) and our vet said the murmur was "very strong" not "mild" at all, and could definitely impact his life. We were devastated! In her defense, the breeder did immediately offer to replace him... but she didn't have any other kittens ready any time soon -- plus, we already were in love with HIM. Two weeks later (at the breeder's suggestion, but at my expense) we took him to another vet, and we got a different opinion. Two vets there listened to him and both said they couldn't detect any significant murmur at all, and they gave him a clean bill of health. We were thrilled, of course... and very thankful... but still, we should have known about the murmur before the day we got him.

(Side note... I am still wrestling with the vet issue, too. When we got this cat, I found out that our regular vet (who I have always liked quite a lot) has quite a bias against breeders in general and I honestly think that *colors* his entire treatment of pedigreed and purebred animals. I'm just not sure that we can trust him to be totally unbiased about this cat. I never told him I got a second opinion, and when we took Boo in later for a rabies shot and I asked about the murmur, and he said, "Yep, it's still there. He's probably going to be fine, though." I said, "The murmur hasn't changed?" He said, "Nope, but he'll probably be just fine." I felt like he would just not back down from his original diagnosis ("That's my story and I'm sticking to it!" kind of thing)... although he did acknowledge that Boo would "probably be just fine." So, I'm kind of torn... I think maybe I ought to change vets... but the other vets are in another town, while our regular vet is literally right up the street... 1/4 of a mile! That's awesomely convenient! So, I don't know... I'm still wrestling with THAT issue.)

But I digress! Back to the subject at hand. I didn't have a lot of choices of Ragdoll breeders in my area. This breeder was the closest... and we fell in love with Boo... and well, the rest is history. BUT, if I ever did it again... I would only buy from a breeder who raised the kittens underfoot. I would LIKE to buy from a breeder who is also a VET... HOPEFULLY that would help assure us of a healthy kitten. (And we hope and believe that Boo is totally healthy, but that heart murmur SCARE will stay with us a long time!) And if I had any niggly reservations AT ALL, I would LISTEN to THEM, and go elsewhere. It's just hard when you don't have a lot of (local) choices... I know some breeders will ship pets, but I wouldn't be comfortable with that (although I know some people are).

But, really, I guess the most important thing is -- we still feel like got The Prize with our sweet Boo, so maybe I shouldn't even complain!

 

[Miranda]

Hubby surprised me with our kitty so I didn''t do any of the cat shopping, but, I he just did a search for breeders in our area and called them. He talked to at least 10 different breeders before he found the one he was most comfortable with. My main caution would be to watch out for breeders that have lots of litters. And spend a loooong time talking to them.

 

[rainbowtrout]

Well, we had an experience similar to Lynn''s. OK, actually my mother had the experience, we just inherited the cat when she couldn''t keep him anymore.

She did tons of research, found a breeder that seemed extremely reputable, visted the cattery, checked references--did *everything* right, in short.

Well first, the woman decides the price they negotiated is too low. She wants to keep him as a stud now, and doesn''t want to sell him at all. But they had already signed the contract, so she had to sell him anyway. She gives the kitten a BATH, puts him in a carrier, and drives him down in a pickup during a huge snowstorm in January to sell to mom. Apparently she had a trip or something to go on.

Well, the kitten was sneezing all the time. He had loose stools. He had some sort of discharge from his eye. She calls the breeder who says it is just a response to a new environment. Mom takes him to the vet who says well, he says, he has a cold! Breeder writes back says no, no, it must be your fault.

Couple days later the kitten takes a nap and won''t wake up, goes totally limp. Mom rushes him to the vet, they have to keep him for a few days, HUGE vet bills rack up. The breeder then says "Oh, I''m so sorry, if I hadn''t listened to my vet I would have just told you about the cold and kept him at home, but I thought it was nothing..." [what kind of vet clears a 8 wk old kitten with a URI???] He also has an ear infection and something wrong with his eyes, apparently.


The breeder at first offered to pay all the vet bills. Sent mom a check for 100.00. Uh-huh. Eventually she paid about 400.00 of it. Didn''t refund any of the money paid for the kitten. Did offer to take him back "if you don''t want him anymore I''ll just use him to stud." Of course there was no WAY we were giving Chen back to that woman!



The moral of the story is, I have not had good overall experiences with breeders, it seems to be pretty hit or miss no matter what you do (this is not just with chen, my father bought 2 purebred Akitas. One turned out wonderfully, one turned out to have lifelong health issues. Interestingly like Chen, Sake (the sick Akita) was also white. I had a white kingsnake and a white cockatial once, they were both ill too. Something about breeding for whiteness seems linked to skin and stomach health issues....

Chen still has stomach problems and is just much more "delicate" than MC, my stray. He''s a sweetheart in terms of breed personality, though, I will say that about buying a purebred.

 

[poptart]

Well, any purebreds will have certain health issues because of the limited gene pool. As for the breeders, I second and third the idea that if something feels "off" don''t buy a kitten from them. My dog was a purebred from a local breeder and everything went fine with him, even though he was the runt. He was healthy, had been socialized with the family, etc. It was a good experience, from what I hear. If you are worried about a breeder or purebred, you can always rescue a kitten from a shelter.

*M*

 

[rainbowtrout]

Poptart:

Yes, that's certainly true, but responsible breeders I believe will take care to avoid breeding parents to offspring and siblings to siblings beyond reasonable limits, and will occasionally mix in fresh blood.

Personally I feel that certain breeds are inherently cruel and should be altered/bred to be more humane---for example Persian cats and bulldogs cannot breathe well because their normal length sinuses are twisted up within that short little nose (as someone with chronic sinus issues this has always horrified me). Dobermans are thought to have a permanent "dog migraine" from their brain being too large for their skull. Sake should never have had to endure a life of allergy shots, pills, and painful skin conditions just because people think all-white Akitas are pretty.

An even disposition and overall health should count as much as appearance in a purebred--if they don't meet breed "personality" standards I personally don't think they should be bred at all. This is how Goldens got to be so risky a puppy to buy, for example.


Sorry for the threadjack!! To be clear, I love our Ragdoll to bits, and he is beautiful, funny, and sweet. I just wish someone had realized that a life of tummy problems might not be worth picture-perfect coloring. I have had a good experience with one breeder--our girl Mahrette was a beautiful black Akita, stunning, perfect personality, ridiculously healthy, etc. Great dog. Her breeders took the responsibility of *bettering* the breed seriously.


ETA: Besides, our Raggie's issues that I was discussing above were caused by a ridiculous breeder and her vet, not genes. His stomach problems don't have to do with his almost dying as a kitten--I re-read my post and thought maybe that wasn't clear.

 

[poptart]

May I ask Rainbow Trout: Do you know how they are able to mix in "fresh blood"? I thought that would be at the detriment of the breeding standard or something. Obviously I''m no expert. I''ve just read that all purebreds come with inherent problems due to breeding.

*M*

 

[FireGoddess]

Have you looked at any Ragdoll rescue sites? ie. like this one I found on a google search:
http://www.freewebs.com/ragdollrescueusa/

When I was daydreaming about adopting birman I did quite a few searches to find rescue organizations - would rather rescue one than get one from a breeder.

 

[rainbowtrout]

By "fresh blood" I meant lines from other catteries, mostly, and animals whose color or appearance might be defective but who have an excellent disposition or health. Solid color Ragdolls, I suppose would be an example.

New genetic tests are also giving breeders willing to use them the power to screen for defective health genes.

FG: Rescues are wonderful, I agree--I do always wonder if sometimes people without as much love and care as yourself end up frequently with "too much cat" from them...then they are stuck in another home again. :-/ No help for it I suppose.

 

[Lynn B]

Believe me, I am a far cry from ANY kind of an expert here... but I think it's fairly easy to bring in new bloodlines for breeding, at least with Raggies. I have heard that the different breeders often "share" some of their animals to their mutual advantage, if not just outright "buy" additional breeding animals from out of the area.

FG, thank you for sharing that link about the Ragdoll Rescue... how interesting and informative! What an awesome alternative to going the breeder/kitten route. I will definitely consider that next time.

RT, thanks for sharing Chen's story. Wow, your breeder and mine ought to get together!!! Two pieces of work!

I'm so sorry for Chen's health issues.

So far, we have every reason to think that little Boo is healthy, and for that I am so grateful. But everytime he sneezes, or sleeps *more than I think he should*, we get worried... and I guess we always will.

I LOVE my Ragdoll... I think it is an amazing breed of cats. I'm sure there are irreprehensible breeders out there striving only to better the breed (and hey, I'm all for them making some money while they're doing it)... but most breeders, unfortunately, just seem to be in it for "the money", and when anything happens to cut their profits, they do not take kindly to it. I can understand why my vet is so anti-breeder. He's a rescue advocate all the way, and I deeply respect that. Even though Boo came from a breeder, we are, too!

 

[LaurenThePartier]

I don''t know if this will help, but I just ran a search for Ragdolls on Petfinder.com and got abour 20 cats in my state, many of them kittens.

They''re obviously not all full blooded, but I''m a cat rescuer at heart, and would rather find a kitten who needed a home, then go to a breeder, but that''s just my opinion.

Petfinder.com

I''m on the hunt for a cream Tonkinese, and I sincerely doubt I''ll ever be able to find one on petfinder.

 

[rainbowtrout]

LTP: I found my blue, lynx-pointed Tonk...in the middle of an intersection! So there's always hope

I don't think there's anything wrong with breeding or with purebreds, I just feel it is so rarely done *right* it's a gamble. Especially with working dogs, the traits of purebreds can be pretty useful and amazing.

Lynn: I hope there is never anything for you to worry about with Boo! Such a little (for now) darling. I agree that a lot of breeders seem to want to make money--I would trust a breeder who did it more as a hobby/passion, honestly, because realistically I doubt it's easy to make a profit and still breed very responsibly.

 

[LaurenThePartier]

Date: 7/9/2007 7:26:15 PM
Author: rainbowtrout
LTP: I found my blue, lynx-pointed Tonk...in the middle of an intersection! So there's always hope

I don't think there's anything wrong with breeding or with purebreds, I just feel it is so rarely done *right* it's a gamble. Especially with working dogs, the traits of purebreds can be pretty useful and amazing.

Lynn: I hope there is never anything for you to worry about with Boo! Such a little (for now) darling. I agree that a lot of breeders seem to want to make money--I would trust a breeder who did it more as a hobby/passion, honestly, because realistically I doubt it's easy to make a profit and still breed very responsibly.

You're kidding!!!!!

How have I not noticed you have a Tonk?!?!? Do you have pics in the Ragdoll thread?

I should post pics of my Siamese that I would swear is mixed with Bengal. I couldn't possibly be that lucky twice in a lifetime - Takumi found me when he was a baby. Stayed up all night meowing on my doorstep.

 

[rainbowtrout]

He (Odin) passed on awhile ago. When I was in college my mother had to move and gave him and his buddy Henry ( a Maine Coon we rescued from the Humane Society) to a lovely woman who took great care of them. Broke the heart, though, I cried for a solid week. I couldn''t take them myself since the dorm didn''t allow pets.

I''m actively discouraging Mom from any more pets...never manages to keep them their whole lives, she doesn''t stay in one place long enough. To be fair she''s never given one to anything but a loving home though.

I''ll see if I can find a photo of him.

 

[BigDiamonds]

Wow...thanks for all the advice! It really has me rethinking buying any animal from a breeder.

Lynn, that''s quite a horror story! I''m so sorry that your baby had health problems.

I hope that he leads a happy and healthy life just like the other vets assured you. And I would absolutely find a new vet- would you trust your children with a pediatrician who had a agenda related to their health? No way! You shouldn''t feel bad about treating your pets with the same level of concern.

And RainbowTrout, your story is no better! It''s so sad when people don''t put the health and happiness of the animals first.

FG- thanks for the link. I am definitely open to rescuing, especially if I can find a kitten in my area. My only hesitation is not being able to meet the parents...what if they''re crazy and my adorable kitty turns into a nutball? I know socialization can help a lot of that, but it still worries me.

Also, I don''t feel like I know enough about the breed to know if a kitten is a true ragdoll or just a look alike, and the primary reason for choosing this breed is personality.

This is so hard...

 

[Lynn B]

Date: 7/9/2007 11:49:18 PM
Author: BigDiamonds
Wow...thanks for all the advice! It really has me rethinking buying any animal from a breeder.

Lynn, that''s quite a horror story! I''m so sorry that your baby had health problems.

I hope that he leads a happy and healthy life just like the other vets assured you. And I would absolutely find a new vet- would you trust your children with a pediatrician who had a agenda related to their health? No way! You shouldn''t feel bad about treating your pets with the same level of concern.

And RainbowTrout, your story is no better! It''s so sad when people don''t put the health and happiness of the animals first.

FG- thanks for the link. I am definitely open to rescuing, especially if I can find a kitten in my area. My only hesitation is not being able to meet the parents...what if they''re crazy and my adorable kitty turns into a nutball? I know socialization can help a lot of that, but it still worries me.

Also, I don''t feel like I know enough about the breed to know if a kitten is a true ragdoll or just a look alike, and the primary reason for choosing this breed is personality.

This is so hard...

I know, it is SO hard, isn''t it? We wanted a Raggie for their personality, too... we couldn''t care less about "pedigree", and while we ADORE the way they *look*, that really had little to nothing to do with our decision.

Sweet little Boo totally lives up to his Ragdoll Reputation, and HE has been well worth all of the hassle. Like I said, when it''s all said and done, we feel like we still got The Prize. I wish the same for you!

 

[FireGoddess]

The recent comments have also echoed a thought I''ve been wrestling lately - it seems that the ''look'' of some cats is really starting to cross breed lines - ie. some of the raggie faces look almost identical to snowshoe markings (which my Chloe is supposedly one of). Or the pointed look that was seen mostly only with siamese is also seen in birmans and other breeds - dunno, seems harder to tell what''s what anymore!!

 

[Lynn B]

Date: 7/10/2007 2:46:19 PM
Author: FireGoddess
The recent comments have also echoed a thought I've been wrestling lately - it seems that the 'look' of some cats is really starting to cross breed lines - ie. some of the raggie faces look almost identical to snowshoe markings (which my Chloe is supposedly one of). Or the pointed look that was seen mostly only with siamese is also seen in birmans and other breeds - dunno, seems harder to tell what's what anymore!!

Hmmm, that's quite interesting, FG. My research into anything beyond free-to-a-good-home-lord-knows-WHO-the father-is-and sometimes-not-even-the-mother

kitties is very recent... so I have no idea what has transpired in the last few years/decades/etc., with regard to how the various breeds look. Did Raggies used to look different?

Someone did tell me recently (true or false, I dunno?!) that ALL cat breeds are MIXES and "hybrids"; as opposed to DOGS - of which many are "TRUE" breeds. Of course, some (like the cock-a-doodle-labra-col-retriever-weiner-schnitzels

) are "mixes", but (according to her) those are the exceptions, not the rule.

Anyone know?!

 

[omieluv]

If you are still looking for a breeder, visit www.ragdollcentral.com this is a great site! Members are friendly and will give you info on how to select a responsible breeder and believe me, they have seen it all when trying to find their raggies. Though I did not go through a breeder for Omie, the one thing that they always recommend is a solid contract between yourself and the breeder, which should outline costs, policy on declawing, and health information. Also, your more responsible breeders will have certain genetic testing done on the parents, for certain issues raggies can have, this should also be included in the contract along with their guarantee...

If you are looking for a rescue organization, specializing in raggies (I also posted this information in the other raggie thread):

Ragdoll Rescue has a great reputation, visit them here: http://www.freewebs.com/ragdollrescue/ (for US site, click here: http://www.freewebs.com/ragdollrescueusa/).

The Purebreed Cat Rescue organization specializes in raggies, persions, himmies, etc. http://purebredcatbreedrescue.org/ragdoll.htm

Ragdoll International is a ragdoll breed club, that also has a rescue service: http://www.ragdollinternational.org/ragrescues.shtml

http://www.ragdollscfa.org/rag_rescue.php

You can always check with local breeders to find out if they have any rescued ragdolls needing homes.

 

[AmberGretchen]

Lynn - about the genetics of dog vs. cat breeds, I think that because dog breeds have, for the most part, been around longer, they do tend to be more "true" breeds, genetically speaking. That is to say, that golden retrievers, when bred together, always give golden retrievers, although irresponsible breeding has caused more deviation than their should be from the physical and temperament and health standards of many popular dog breeds, goldens included. With many cat breeds (Snowshoes are a good example), the markings and other physical characteristics, as well as the personalities, haven''t been bred for enough generations and/or aren''t well enough understood to have true-breeding animals all the time. So using the Snowshoe as an example, there are pretty strict definitions of how much white they should have and where it should be on the body of the cat for show conformation, but even really responsible careful Snowshoe breeders have trouble producing these cats 100% of the time because they haven''t been bred for enough generations and also because there is a lot of complication in cat coat color genetics, especially placement of white patches. Birmans, on the other hand, have been around much longer than Snowshoes as a breed, and so the breeding of Birmans tends to more consistently produce only the mitted cats (white only on the paws) that are desirable for conforming to the breed standard.

Ragdolls were created relatively recently (in the ''60''s or so), so I would imagine that the true breeding is pretty limited, especially given the fairly strict restrictions placed on the placement of white fur on the cats. To make Raggies even more complicated, different cat organizations around the world recognize different patterning and coloring on Raggies for the show ring.

To answer the original poster''s questions - I think you''ve gotten some great answers here. My DH and I ended up with our Ragdoll (putative Ragdoll since he was an orphan), purely by chance - we fell in love with a rescued scrap of a blue-eyed kitten, and as he (rapidly) grew, it became apparent he had all the characteristics of a Ragdoll, both appearance and temperament-wise. Generally, if you''re looking for a guarantee on personality, the best, closest to 100% way to do that is to adopt an adult cat, whose personality is fully formed, who has been fostered in a home situation, where the foster parents can give you extensive information about what they are like. Getting a purebred Raggie is still a gamble - as Lynn noted, a breeder can have many of the best intentions and a decent cattery and the kittens can still not get enough socialization. Even the Ragdoll international website says that personality is 50% genetics and 50% environment. That said, if you are set on a kitten, one that has been in a foster environment or in a shelter where they have volunteers or staff who are knowledgeable about the individual cats is a decent bet as well. Generally a sweet kitten who is friendly and outgoing is unlikely to grow up to be a nasty, reclusive cat, provided it receives plenty of love, attention, and socialization.

Best of luck with your search, and thank you for considering rescuing - I really do think it sounds like it might be the best option for you, especially if your main consideration is personality.

 

[omieluv]

Date: 7/17/2007 4:28:32 PM
Author: AmberGretchen

Ragdolls were created relatively recently (in the '60's or so), so I would imagine that the true breeding is pretty limited, especially given the fairly strict restrictions placed on the placement of white fur on the cats. To make Raggies even more complicated, different cat organizations around the world recognize different patterning and coloring on Raggies for the show ring.

Amber, you are correct. Raggies have been around since the 1960's follow this link to read about their history: http://www.rfci.org/info/ragdoll_history.php To complicate things, this breed is very young and has originated from at least one moggie (mixed breed) cat. So, it has taken several years to develop this breed and breeders are constantly challenged to produce cats that conform to breed standard. Most cat breed clubs will all recognize pointed raggies (seal and blue) for showing purposes, though other patterns are being accepted on an experimental basis for showing (lynx, tortie, cream, etc). The problem is, where does one draw the line? For instance, lynx point ragdolls originate their pattern from a tabby, which gets away from breeding true in the minds of purists. With this said, a varient of the Ragdoll exists...

Have you ever heard of a ragamuffin? These cats are basically ragdolls (similar personality), but they come in several colors (even solid & calico)! Some even have green eyes and some are even pointed! http://www.ragamuffingroup.com/ This breed is young and has been accepted into certain breed clubs on a provisional status. This breed is debated because they are essentially a ragdoll that comes in several colors.


Also check this site out, which is the direct link to raggie kittens & rescue cats avail on Ragdoll Central: http://www.ragdollcentral.com/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=6&sid=88f5d503477bca724a66c375591126fa