rate this round diamond - help me decide - did i made a bad choice

[Ruby18]

I'm looking at the two following diamonds and hoping someone can help me determine if either of these are good options

1.16 Carat round diamond

This 1.16 carat round diamond H color vvs2 clarity has Excellent proportions and a diamond grading report from GIA

www.jamesallen.com

1.21 Carat round diamond

This 1.21 carat round diamond H color vs2 clarity has Excellent proportions and a diamond grading report from GIA

www.jamesallen.com

I've actually already purchased the 1.16 but now not sure if i made a good decision. Can someone please help.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Did you use Pricescop HCA search - it has back end access to JA's diamond proportions. If the score is excellent then ask for an ideal-scope or ASET image and come back and post it here

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

put the stones on hold and get the GIA reports too

 

[Ruby18]

Gary, I have them. What info do you need?

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

What I wrote

 

[Ruby18]

For the 1.16 carat the HCA is 1.6 (- excellent - within FIC range). light return, very good. Fire, excellent. Scintillation, very good. Spread, very good

1.21 HCA is 1.7 with same as above specs as the other.

JA does not offer the ideal-scope or ASET image unless it's one of their hearts and arrows diamonds. Neither of these diamonds are H&A. I do not have the GIA number for either but based on the details I entered for the HCA I received the above.

They blank out the GIA #s but here are the specs for both diamonds.

Specs on 1.16
6..65x6.69x4.18
Table - 57%
Crown Angle - 36
Pavilion - 40.6
Pavilion Depth - 43
Depth 62.6
lower Girdle - 80
star length - 50
cutlet - none
Medium Blue Flo

Specs on 1.21
6.76x6.81x4.21
Table - 58%
Crown Angle - 36
Pavilion - 40.6
Pavilion Depth - 43
Depth 62.0
lower Girdle - 75
star length - 50
Cutlet - none
No Fluorescence

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

They will give you the certs on request. Not likely to be any issues with the VVS2 but the VS2 inclusions could be important.

 

[yssie]

That 1.21. How the heck is that a VS2?
Zero chance that black bogey at the edge of the table isn’t visible in person from reasonably normal viewing distance at slight tilt.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

That 1.21. How the heck is that a VS2?
Zero chance that black bogey at the edge of the table isn’t visible in person from reasonably normal viewing distance at slight tilt.

If you can focus from 8 inches 20cm or less it is visible. From 10-12 inches or more it would not be visible Yssie

 

[Ruby18]

I've reached out to JA and they tell me that they unfortunately do not have an ideal-scope or ASET image available for either of the diamonds I have listed above. In your expert opinion, does the 1.16 diamond look like a pretty solid choice for fire and brilliance?

 

[yssie]

I've reached out to JA and they tell me that they unfortunately do not have an ideal-scope or ASET image available for either of the diamonds I have listed above. In your expert opinion, does the 1.16 diamond look like a pretty solid choice for fire and brilliance?

Yes. You did fine. You did not make a bad choice.

 

[yssie]

If you can focus from 8 inches 20cm or less it is visible. From 10-12 inches or more it would not be visible Yssie

Depends on the viewer’s vision for sure. And tilt angle. The majority of GIA VS2s in this size have less visible inclusions, I think (that is the end result despite grading through a 10x loupe) so it’s a case of paying for a grade but not getting “average value” out of that grade. The inclusion is so close to the surface of the table, you could probably just put a dab of marker in that spot on a random stone and judge visibility that way!

 

[Ruby18]

Yes. You did fine. You did not make a bad choice.

Thanks Yssie. I've been sick about the decision after reading about fish eyes, nail heads, etc., etc., etc. and was concerned that this diamond may have that. It's overwhelming trying to choose based on limited knowledge and only seeing it online. I wish i would have found this site prior to the purchase and also the free service available from Nice Ice that helps with this very stressful decision. Just received an update that the ring is due to be delivered today. Original ship date was scheduled for 2/25. I had asked about the group about an alternative diamond because i thought i would have had time to change prior to final production of the ring. Fingers crossed that it's beautiful.

You seem incredibly knowledgeable so pleased to have your assurance that i did OK and didn't make a bad choice!

 

[lovedogs]

No, your diamond doesn't have any of those characteristics (fish eye, nail head, etc). I bet it will be beautiful in person!

 

[AnastasiaBeaverhausen]

Thanks Yssie. I've been sick about the decision after reading about fish eyes, nail heads, etc., etc., etc. and was concerned that this diamond may have that. It's overwhelming trying to choose based on limited knowledge and only seeing it online. I wish i would have found this site prior to the purchase and also the free service available from Nice Ice that helps with this very stressful decision. Just received an update that the ring is due to be delivered today. Original ship date was scheduled for 2/25. I had asked about the group about an alternative diamond because i thought i would have had time to change prior to final production of the ring. Fingers crossed that it's beautiful.

You seem incredibly knowledgeable so pleased to have your assurance that i did OK and didn't make a bad choice!

Hope you receive your diamond soon and that seeing it will alleviate any worries you had!

 

[Ruby18]

So my ring just arrived today due to FEDEX issues with weather. Something is terribly wrong with it! What is going on with this ring????

These are photos inside of grocery store with very strong fluorescent lighting (the long tubes with no covers). When the fluorescent lighting has covers on them, it looks like a normal sparkling diamond. With the strong fluorescent lighting, the ring looked black but also a lot of sparkle going on. These pictures don't actually show how dark it looked. It looked just black!

I have never seen this in a ring in person before. I'm so upset i feel physically sick! Any input would be greatly appreciated.

I am positing again the link to the images of the ring online

1.16 Carat round diamond

This 1.16 carat round diamond H color vvs2 clarity has Excellent proportions and a diamond grading report from GIA

www.jamesallen.com

Also attached are photos taken in my car (titles Ring Car cloudy day)




and one with it in the box

 

[Inbloom]

@Ruby18 I don't think anything is wrong with the diamond. If it's a good quality cut it will go dark under direct light like that. That fire is awesome! It does take some getting used to I admit but you can be assured that this is normal. You did say it's white and sparkly in other lighting conditions right?

 

[Txborn79]

So my ring just arrived today due to FEDEX issues with weather. Something is terribly wrong with it! What is going on with this ring????

These are photos inside of grocery store with very strong fluorescent lighting (the long tubes with no covers). When the fluorescent lighting has covers on them, it looks like a normal sparkling diamond. With the strong fluorescent lighting, the ring looked black but also a lot of sparkle going on. These pictures don't actually show how dark it looked. It looked just black!

I have never seen this in a ring in person before. I'm so upset i feel physically sick! Any input would be greatly appreciated.

I am positing again the link to the images of the ring online

1.16 Carat round diamond

This 1.16 carat round diamond H color vvs2 clarity has Excellent proportions and a diamond grading report from GIA

www.jamesallen.com

Also attached are photos taken in my car (titles Ring Car cloudy day)




and one with it in the box

@Ruby18 here is a good write up about diamonds going dark. There is nothing wrong with your diamond.

SOME GOOD DIAMONDS LOOK DARK IN SUNLIGHT

Some good white diamonds look dark in direct sunlight. Yellow diamonds look great in sunlight but white diamonds look best in shaded lighting.

www.hollowaydiamonds.com.au

 

[lovedogs]

@Ruby18 here is a good write up about diamonds going dark. There is nothing wrong with your diamond.

SOME GOOD DIAMONDS LOOK DARK IN SUNLIGHT

Some good white diamonds look dark in direct sunlight. Yellow diamonds look great in sunlight but white diamonds look best in shaded lighting.

www.hollowaydiamonds.com.au

Nothing at all wrong with the diamond. This is what happens to well cut diamonds. However, if you decide that isn't the look you want, then you will likely need to find an alternative cut.

 

[yssie]

Ditto, normal.

The Holloway Diamonds article linked is a good read. There are also a number of threads here on PS about this.

https://www.pricescope.com/communit...-goes-dark-or-blue-in-direct-sunlight.245780/
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/is-your-diamond-goes-“dark”.262547/
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/why-does-a-diamond-go-dark-in-direct-sunlight.132751/

 

[Ruby18]

The diamond is white in some lighting conditions and in some light is sparkly and other not very sparkly. I would have expected a little more sparkle but it does sparkle enough. My stone is rated with medium blue fluorescence and I so far don't notice any milky or cloudiness. However, I've yet to expose it to direct sun as I'm up north and we've not seen the sun for days so i don't know if it will display that once it sees the sun. I read a lot about the fluorescence and from what i understand, medium doesn't usually show the milky/cloudy characteristic especially in H and below but the strong to very strong may. Is this correct in all of your experiences and expertise? Or have you seen med flo turn an H milky/cloudy?

My question is, my cut is not a super ideal, a true hearts or any of the other names given to the best cut of stones so is it still possible that my cut is causing my stone to do this or could it be from the fluorescence or that it is cut too deep? Would the depth cause circle of death that would make it appear black in some lighting? I've read the helpful links above but since i have not exposed my diamond to the sun, i don't know how it would react. It's lighting in some stores and in my kitchen where i am seeing the stone turn black so is that the same as sun light? Here are the specs on it

H
1.16 carat
6.65 x 6.69 x 4.18
Table - 57%
Crown Angle - 36
Pavilion - 40.6
Pavilion Depth - 43
Depth 62.6
lower Girdle - 80
star length - 50
cutlet - none
Medium Blue Flo
EX EX EX and is a VVS2

Since I've never seen a diamond turn black/dark gray (I'm having both depending on lighting) in any lighting before I want to make sure it's not due to the deep cut or Flo. I mean it turned super dark, pictures lightened up the darkness a bit. Having said that, when it went dark, the fire and colors that it was exhibiting was quite shocking but so was it being black!!! If my cut would justify this happening since i don't have the real ideal cut, I just have to decide if it's something i can adjust to. If i had seen this on another girls stone, I would assume it was not very good quality and full of awful inclusions. So...would the above be considered a good enough cut to cause it to go black? In my home office with normal covered overhead light, my ring looks stunning. If i shine the light of my phone on it from any angle (from above, from the side) it turns dark gray to light black. Is this normal?

I reached out to JA and spoke to a manager and he told me he has never heard of a diamond doing this. I did send my photos but it looked fine to him. He said it's probably just the way my hand was tilted or because the middle stone is larger then the side stones. I mean how can you not notice this is dark???

 

[lovedogs]

The diamond is white in some lighting conditions and in some light is sparkly and other not very sparkly. I would have expected a little more sparkle but it does sparkle enough. My stone is rated with medium blue fluorescence and I so far don't notice any milky or cloudiness. However, I've yet to expose it to direct sun as I'm up north and we've not seen the sun for days so i don't know if it will display that once it sees the sun. I read a lot about the fluorescence and from what i understand, medium doesn't usually show the milky/cloudy characteristic especially in H and below but the strong to very strong may. Is this correct in all of your experiences and expertise? Or have you seen med flo turn an H milky/cloudy?

My question is, my cut is not a super ideal, a true hearts or any of the other names given to the best cut of stones so is it still possible that my cut is causing my stone to do this or could it be from the fluorescence or that it is cut too deep? Would the depth cause circle of death that would make it appear black in some lighting? I've read the helpful links above but since i have not exposed my diamond to the sun, i don't know how it would react. It's lighting in some stores and in my kitchen where i am seeing the stone turn black so is that the same as sun light? Here are the specs on it

H
1.16 carat
6.65 x 6.69 x 4.18
Table - 57%
Crown Angle - 36
Pavilion - 40.6
Pavilion Depth - 43
Depth 62.6
lower Girdle - 80
star length - 50
cutlet - none
Medium Blue Flo
EX EX EX and is a VVS2

Since I've never seen a diamond turn black/dark gray (I'm having both depending on lighting) in any lighting before I want to make sure it's not due to the deep cut or Flo. I mean it turned super dark, pictures lightened up the darkness a bit. Having said that, when it went dark, the fire and colors that it was exhibiting was quite shocking but so was it being black!!! If my cut would justify this happening since i don't have the real ideal cut, I just have to decide if it's something i can adjust to. If i had seen this on another girls stone, I would assume it was not very good quality and full of awful inclusions. So...would the above be considered a good enough cut to cause it to go black? In my home office with normal covered overhead light, my ring looks stunning. If i shine the light of my phone on it from any angle (from above, from the side) it turns dark gray to light black. Is this normal?

I reached out to JA and spoke to a manager and he told me he has never heard of a diamond doing this. I did send my photos but it looked fine to him. He said it's probably just the way my hand was tilted or because the middle stone is larger then the side stones. I mean how can you not notice this is dark???

The way your stone looks is very expected. There is nothing wrong with it. But again, you have to love it.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

The better the cut the darker a diamond will look in strong direct point lighting.
Its fantastic!
I hope you read both of my blog articles.

 

[AllAboardTheBlingTrain]

As a counter point - yes, this is what happens to a well cut stone under direct light; but if this is not to your personal taste it may mean that you like a different look to your diamond and that’s absolutely fine. I’m kind of like this - I don’t like the “blacking out” even though I understand that it’s a feature, not a bug, it’s not to my personal taste and so I tend to gravitate towards stones that favour brilliance and white light return. It’s just a personal choice. So if you find that you don’t like the look, don’t think this is something “you have to live with” - experiment and make sure this is what you want. You might find after some time that this is actually what you do prefer and that’s great if that’s what it is, but you also might find that it’s not to your taste and that’s totally okay - you have to wear it after all

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

As a counter point - yes, this is what happens to a well cut stone under direct light; but if this is not to your personal taste it may mean that you like a different look to your diamond and that’s absolutely fine. I’m kind of like this - I don’t like the “blacking out” even though I understand that it’s a feature, not a bug, it’s not to my personal taste and so I tend to gravitate towards stones that favour brilliance and white light return. It’s just a personal choice. So if you find that you don’t like the look, don’t think this is something “you have to live with” - experiment and make sure this is what you want. You might find after some time that this is actually what you do prefer and that’s great if that’s what it is, but you also might find that it’s not to your taste and that’s totally okay - you have to wear it after all

Hi AABTBT,
I appreciate there are many different tastes and many different looks in a diamond.
I wish we had not commoditized diamond so much that there as a result are fewer creative and different looks. (I am hopeful that the eventually very inexpensive man made rough can help change that).

But regarding "I tend to gravitate towards stones that favour brilliance and white light return"
These are the very stones that turn dark. I have written and explained that several times here and have a blog on my HD site that explains it with simple comparison photos of a few rings with different cuts.

 

[AllAboardTheBlingTrain]

Hi AABTBT,
I appreciate there are many different tastes and many different looks in a diamond.
I wish we had not commoditized diamond so much that there as a result are fewer creative and different looks. (I am hopeful that the eventually very inexpensive man made rough can help change that).

But regarding "I tend to gravitate towards stones that favour brilliance and white light return"
These are the very stones that turn dark. I have written and explained that several times here and have a blog on my HD site that explains it with simple comparison photos of a few rings with different cuts.

Oh maybe then I’m wrong about what I like @Garry H! The only round diamonds I have (my studs) are very white and bright, and never go dark even in strong direct light, so I thought that was the right way to describe what I like!!

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Oh maybe then I’m wrong about what I like @Garry H! The only round diamonds I have (my studs) are very white and bright, and never go dark even in strong direct light, so I thought that was the right way to describe what I like!!

Then perhaps thy have strong fluorescence?

Blue Fluorescence Diamond in Sunlight

Blue fluorescence diamond is bad! Right? Wrong! It depends ....Our fluorescent diamonds look even BETTER than non-fluorescent ones we sell.

www.hollowaydiamonds.com.au

the other article with th diamonds go dark topic has some glitch in th images???

 

[AllAboardTheBlingTrain]

Then perhaps thy have strong fluorescence?

Blue Fluorescence Diamond in Sunlight

Blue fluorescence diamond is bad! Right? Wrong! It depends ....Our fluorescent diamonds look even BETTER than non-fluorescent ones we sell.

www.hollowaydiamonds.com.au

the other article with th diamonds go dark topic has some glitch in th images???

They don’t have flourescence... the likeliest explanation is that they’re not as well cut or something even though they’re GIA 3Ex. Or that what I think is the strong direct light isn’t actually strong enough or direct enough maybe? Or I never hold it at the right angle to make it go dark? I never look at my earrings in bright light anyway - only did when I was buying them. Must go experiment today. Will shining a flashlight on them achieve that direct source of light we’re talking about?

edit: so after reading all the stuff I could find I think the point is that I never look at my earrings in a small direct pin point of light?? How small does the light source have to be? So actually my point was kinda irrelevant to the whole thread I think, sorry for adding to misinformation!

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

They don’t have flourescence... the likeliest explanation is that they’re not as well cut or something even though they’re GIA 3Ex. Or that what I think is the strong direct light isn’t actually strong enough or direct enough maybe? Or I never hold it at the right angle to make it go dark? I never look at my earrings in bright light anyway - only did when I was buying them. Must go experiment today. Will shining a flashlight on them achieve that direct source of light we’re talking about?

edit: so after reading all the stuff I could find I think the point is that I never look at my earrings in a small direct pin point of light?? How small does the light source have to be? So actually my point was kinda irrelevant to the whole thread I think, sorry for adding to misinformation!

The best way is with bright sun shining over your shoulder with the diamond facing directly toward the sun.

 

[AllAboardTheBlingTrain]

The best way is with bright sun shining over your shoulder with the diamond facing directly toward the sun.

Thanks Garry, I’m going to try this out the next time I’m in bright sunshine! I don’t think I’ve ever checked out a round stone in this way - at least not with the sun behind me I don’t think. So it’s possible that my earrings will go dark after all lol and I will eat my words. In the other lighting sources I’ve seen they’re very white and bright, perhaps not that colourful as compared to some videos I see here but I don’t mind that and think the trade off is totally fine