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Re-Cutting Super Ideal Question

J

JP 134

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 17, 2019
Messages
31
Hi Everyone,

I'm in the process of having a natural super ideal 2.5 carat sourced for an engagement ring. The diamond will be a D/IF/2a so not something that is typically stocked. In reaching out to two vendors, one has offered to provide the diamond I want at my budget, but would essentially be re-cutting an existing diamond to their super ideal specs and parameters. Coincidentally another vendor reached out to follow-up with me, and when I had mentioned that I was going this route, the second vendor warned me about the potential dangers of recutting. Essentially, stating that it's better to have it done from a rough and that I should go with them for that. Here is what the vendor warned:
To clarify, with a finished diamond that is being recut, you won't know how the stone will perform until it is put on the cutting wheel, IE it's grain direction on whether it is a 2 point, 3 point, or 4 point. When you cut from the rough, it is established based on the rough itself. Most super ideal cut hearts and arrows are cut from sawable material. When cutting a 2 point, it makes it very difficult to achieve that perfection all round. The lower the number, the more complex it is. Moreover, the polish grade is an even bigger concern, as in most cases it doesn't turn out right. That's the gamble.

This is my first time dealing with super ideals and buying diamonds, so I would love some advice from those more knowledgeable.
-If a diamond is being re-cut and guaranteed to a vendors super ideal spec, is there still a concern with going that route?
-Is a re-cut diamond less valuable then one cut from rough? As a buyer should I expect to pay less than getting one that was cut from a rough?
-I'm assuming a new certificate would be issues-is their any history of a diamond being re-cut on that? Anyway to know that it's been recut?

Thanks in advance. This community has been amazing with this process! :)
 
JP 134 said:
Hi Everyone,

I'm in the process of having a natural super ideal 2.5 carat sourced for an engagement ring. The diamond will be a D/IF/2a so not something that is typically stocked. In reaching out to two vendors, one has offered to provide the diamond I want at my budget, but would essentially be re-cutting an existing diamond to their super ideal specs and parameters. Coincidentally another vendor reached out to follow-up with me, and when I had mentioned that I was going this route, the second vendor warned me about the potential dangers of recutting. Essentially, stating that it's better to have it done from a rough and that I should go with them for that. Here is what the vendor warned:
To clarify, with a finished diamond that is being recut, you won't know how the stone will perform until it is put on the cutting wheel, IE it's grain direction on whether it is a 2 point, 3 point, or 4 point. When you cut from the rough, it is established based on the rough itself. Most super ideal cut hearts and arrows are cut from sawable material. When cutting a 2 point, it makes it very difficult to achieve that perfection all round. The lower the number, the more complex it is. Moreover, the polish grade is an even bigger concern, as in most cases it doesn't turn out right. That's the gamble.

This is my first time dealing with super ideals and buying diamonds, so I would love some advice from those more knowledgeable.
-If a diamond is being re-cut and guaranteed to a vendors super ideal spec, is there still a concern with going that route?
-Is a re-cut diamond less valuable then one cut from rough? As a buyer should I expect to pay less than getting one that was cut from a rough?
-I'm assuming a new certificate would be issues-is their any history of a diamond being re-cut on that? Anyway to know that it's been recut?

Thanks in advance. This community has been amazing with this process! :)
Click to expand...

Many people have had diamonds recut for better cut. I would be interested to see what the other vendor would have to say about these comments. I have only purchased already cut super ideals but have no idea about their starting material. Sort of sounds like a sales pitch, but I am not versed in diamond cutting so surely not an expert. If the vendor recutting diamond is guaranteeing its performance and cut quality, what would be the risk to you? I have just never heard these comments before - makes my spidey senses twitch!
 
My concern is that if you buy a D/IF and have it recut, it won't be IF anymore (I think), so that's always a big risk
 
lovedogs said:
My concern is that if you buy a D/IF and have it recut, it won't be IF anymore (I think), so that's always a big risk
Click to expand...
Hmmm good point. However, They would need to have it re-certified so I think that would take out any concern. I would get a refund if they don’t deliver what they promised.
 
MissGotRocks said:
Many people have had diamonds recut for better cut. I would be interested to see what the other vendor would have to say about these comments. I have only purchased already cut super ideals but have no idea about their starting material. Sort of sounds like a sales pitch, but I am not versed in diamond cutting so surely not an expert. If the vendor recutting diamond is guaranteeing its performance and cut quality, what would be the risk to you? I have just never heard these comments before - makes my spidey senses twitch!
Click to expand...

Yeah. In my head I didn’t originally think there’s a risk, but I’ll be the first to admit that this is outside my knowledge. That other vendor may have been working a sales angle perhaps ‍♂️
 
JP 134 said:
Yeah. In my head I didn’t originally think there’s a risk, but I’ll be the first to admit that this is outside my knowledge. That other vendor may have been working a sales angle perhaps ‍♂️
Click to expand...

Well, the cutting explanation is surely above my pay grade, but it does makes me suspicious. The explanation isn’t something I have ever heard before, and when you can’t or don’t explain it in a more understandable fashion, it makes me doubt it.
 
The only near guarantee of D/IF is start with a bigger D/IF and it is done.
Its not 100% but better odds than rough.
It could even end up D/FL
 
Last edited:
Karl_K said:
The only near guarantee of D/IF is start with a bigger D/IF and it is done.
Its not 100% but better odds than rough.
It could even end up D/FL
Click to expand...

Thanks for clarifying! I wasnt sure if recutting could lower the clarity or not.
 
lovedogs said:
Thanks for clarifying! I wasnt sure if recutting could lower the clarity or not.
Click to expand...
From what I have gathered not likely on an IF.
Recruiting a vvs1 and not removing the inclusions is asking for a vvs2 grade yet a vvs2 is unlikely to go vs1.
Weird stuff.
 
Karl_K said:
From what I have gathered not likely on an IF.
Recruiting a vvs1 and not removing the inclusions is asking for a vvs2 grade yet a vvs2 is unlikely to go vs1.
Weird stuff.
Click to expand...

Karl_K said:
The only near guarantee of D/IF is start with a bigger D/IF and it is done.
Its not 100% but better odds than rough.
It could even end up D/FL
Click to expand...

Yep. That’s essentially what they’re doing. Getting a larger d/if and cutting it to the super ideal criteria.
 
JP 134 said:
Yep. That’s essentially what they’re doing. Getting a larger d/if and cutting it to the super ideal criteria.
Click to expand...

Brian Gavin?
 
JP 134 said:
Yeah. In my head I didn’t originally think there’s a risk, but I’ll be the first to admit that this is outside my knowledge. That other vendor may have been working a sales angle perhaps ‍♂️
Click to expand...

If you are not financially tied to the end result after cutting - that risk isn’t yours, it’s someone else’s.
Maybe one could say ‘risking’ time expecting and waiting on the project, is.
 
Rfisher said:
If you are not financially tied to the end result after cutting - that risk isn’t yours, it’s someone else’s.
Maybe one could say ‘risking’ time expecting and waiting on the project, is.
Click to expand...

That’s what I had assumed. Thank you.

So essentially it’s the same “value” as a diamond made from a rough and there’s no way to know the difference?
 
JP 134 said:
Hi Everyone,

I'm in the process of having a natural super ideal 2.5 carat sourced for an engagement ring. The diamond will be a D/IF/2a so not something that is typically stocked. In reaching out to two vendors, one has offered to provide the diamond I want at my budget, but would essentially be re-cutting an existing diamond to their super ideal specs and parameters. Coincidentally another vendor reached out to follow-up with me, and when I had mentioned that I was going this route, the second vendor warned me about the potential dangers of recutting. Essentially, stating that it's better to have it done from a rough and that I should go with them for that. Here is what the vendor warned:
To clarify, with a finished diamond that is being recut, you won't know how the stone will perform until it is put on the cutting wheel, IE it's grain direction on whether it is a 2 point, 3 point, or 4 point. When you cut from the rough, it is established based on the rough itself. Most super ideal cut hearts and arrows are cut from sawable material. When cutting a 2 point, it makes it very difficult to achieve that perfection all round. The lower the number, the more complex it is. Moreover, the polish grade is an even bigger concern, as in most cases it doesn't turn out right. That's the gamble.

This is my first time dealing with super ideals and buying diamonds, so I would love some advice from those more knowledgeable.
-If a diamond is being re-cut and guaranteed to a vendors super ideal spec, is there still a concern with going that route?
-Is a re-cut diamond less valuable then one cut from rough? As a buyer should I expect to pay less than getting one that was cut from a rough?
-I'm assuming a new certificate would be issues-is their any history of a diamond being re-cut on that? Anyway to know that it's been recut?

Thanks in advance. This community has been amazing with this process! :)
Click to expand...

Take your time to get your ready-to-wear ideal stone, do not embark in risky projects!!!
As far as I know (what my jeweler told me), you buy the original diamond, you pay for the recutting and you get the recut diamond, no matter the end result.
So:
- if you buy a 2.5 ct diamond, you pay for a 2.5 ct stone
- I think recutting costs 1k USD/c, so you have to pay 2.5 k USD for recutting
- no matter the end result (weight loss or imperfect proportions), you get your diamond back
- if you want a new certificate, you have to pay for it
- the new certificate would be a standard 4C certificate and it wouldn't mention the recutting.
 
JP 134 said:
Moreover, the polish grade is an even bigger concern, as in most cases it doesn't turn out right. That's the gamble.
Click to expand...

I did a re-cut aiming for near-perfection and this was the caveat for me from Brian Gavin -- he could not guarantee an "X" for polish until they started the re-cut and could learn the orientation (I think it was the hardness anisotropy thing). He was correct -- came away with a great result and improved color and good size-retention but could not quite get that third "X" for polish. I have a thread about it somewhere. Mine, in contrast to yours, was a pretty low-risk endeavor (smaller and lower-quality diamond, in the family for nearly a half-century, etc.)
 
Thank you for the advice! The problem is that it's tough to find a rough to meet those specs for the price and there's no way to guarantee type 2a from what I understand on a rough.

Since the jeweler has a guarantee as to the set parameters of the cut, the deal would be void if it doesn't meat that. I guess at the end of the day, if the final product is the agreed upon one and they hit their margins and I get my price, then should I just not worry whether it's a rough or re-cut?
 
LilAlex said:
I did a re-cut aiming for near-perfection and this was the caveat for me from Brian Gavin -- he could not guarantee an "X" for polish until they started the re-cut and could learn the orientation (I think it was the hardness anisotropy thing). He was correct -- came away with a great result and improved color and good size-retention but could not quite get that third "X" for polish. I have a thread about it somewhere. Mine, in contrast to yours, was a pretty low-risk endeavor (smaller and lower-quality diamond, in the family for nearly a half-century, etc.)
Click to expand...

Thank you for sharing your experience! I have heard that risk as well. I think my situation would be different in that the specs would be part of the guarantee (meaning the polish as well) as well vs me sending my own diamond in if that makes sense.
 
MissGotRocks said:
So due to GIA rounding, I am assuming you cannot tell where the recut affected the specs? Just lost .01 carat weight and downgraded the clarity?
Click to expand...

No -it was upgraded (probably repolished) to Flawless
 
If you have an ironclad refund policy in writing, then I don’t see the difference between either option and would just choose the vendor who I felt that I trusted more and who had a proven track record with this exact type of thing. Research your vendor carefully, and make sure that they truly can deliver and have delivered this type of thing in the past satisfactorily to other customers.

In fact, I think it would be better to not have to pay at all until the product is delivered rather than risking problems with a refund. What exactly will constitute the grounds for a refund?
 
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