Real estate advice

[gailrmv]

hi! Just wanted to get some unbiased opinions on what my husband and I are thinking... new jobs will have us relocating across town, about 45 minutes away. Our jobs will start in the summer, but since we''re less familiar with the other part of town, we have been driving around and scoping out the area for several months. We have a healthy budget to work with, but housing prices have been rising steadily the past few years. We had first been thinking about new construction, but quickly found that most of the new construction was way outside of town and not central to the things we enjoy doing. Plus many developments are cookie-cutter and boring. Then we started thinking about older houses in the downtown, but it turns out that they are very charming but often times need structural work which can be very expensive. Also, although there is an urban revival going on in our city, there is still more crime downtown. And, we would only be able to afford about 2000 square feet downtown vs about 3000 feet elsewhere. We hope to have this house a long time and have room for children and visitors which is why the square footage is important to us. So then we started thinking established suburbs that are about 10-15 min away from downtown. This seemed like a good combination of location with established neighborhood and less crime, and more square feet for the money. However, many of these homes were built in the 70s and 80s and would need some major cosmetic work, which is a hassle and expense, especially while getting started with new jobs. OK, not to ramble on and on, but here is what happened last weekend:

While driving around the nice nearby suburbs, we happened upon a small bit of new construction in a great location. It is one cul-de-sac being built onto a newer established neighborhood, although it lacks some charm of some other neighborhoods we''ve seen. It is in a nice part of town, good schools, about 5 min from many amenities and 10-15 minutes from the major downtown. We would have short commutes (less than 20 min). It sounds perfect, right? We would get to choose our lot and build our own house and choose everything we want - this is the part I am most excited about, so that we can get all the features we want, colors etc and everything would be brand new. (this is with Drees, a major builder, so we''d choose from their plans, etc - not custom building). I am just having some uncertainty because choosing this means foregoing all the other possibilities, all of which I was excited about. And, while these houses are all very cute, it still runs the risk of being cookie cutter and boring. My husband is all for this new construction, which is uncharacteristic for him because usually he prefers more established. I just don''t know what to do. This is probably our only chance for new construction in a location we like. There are 9 houses being built, and only 4 lots remain so we need to act fast if we are going to do it. In fact, we put down a refundable deposit and have 5 days to make up our minds.

So.... move forward with the new construction, or hold off until the spring and look for something more established at that time?

 

[Mara]

a bird in the hand....

personally i love new construction just because it's typically easier (assuming a good builder) and you don't have to worry about hassling with the house for at least 3-4 years. it's lower maintenance, there's no remodeling work involved. the house is yours from the beginning, no one else ever lived there, all paints and carpets and this and that is all you and your family. i really love that about new housing. we adore our current townhouse.

on the other hand, now that we have done new housing (and i have lived in a bunch of new houses throughout my life, my parents are total new construction lovers)...we both secretly covet beautiful older homes with lovely architecture. but along with those perks comes more maintenance on an older home, possibly larger $$ in terms of replacing a roof or a water heater or this or that...depending on when that stuff was last done. there's also potentially 12 layers of wallpaper to scrape off the walls from the last 50 years, pets buried in the yard, or whatever else old houses have going on.

we are kind of hemming and hawing ourselves right now on what to do as well, probably in the next year or two we'll make some sort of change. in any case, i think that part of it just comes down to what is in your heart, what do you feel is more YOU TWO as a family unit...and what fits your lifestyle as well. do you really have time to be doing all this maintenance on an old house if it means longer-term happiness with it? or is the new construction adaptable to what you want it to be? can you add any architectural elements inside to make it less cookie cutter? crown moulding or similar.

for us also we want to find the right house in the right neighborhood at the right price. we don't want to deal with remodeling, so we want it to be remodeled. but slim pickins!! so considering that you found something that is pretty much mostly what you want except for the new vs old construction....is it a deal breaker? what is the % of emphasis you put on your desire to have an old house with character?

anyway...i don't have an answer for you but i do feel your pain! decisions!!!

 

[gailrmv]

Hi Mara, thanks for writing, you make some great points!
I love the charm of an older house, but the maintenance could be a huge pain not to mention the remodeling. We looked at a few older homes that have been remodeled and people want TOP TOP dollar for them. And, I forgot to mention, in the city itself you usually don''t get a garage! My parents chose to get a small house for us (family of 4, 1800 square feet plus a finished porch) in the absolute best part of their town. Until recently I did not appreciate the importance of the neighborhood, just thought about being crowded and everything being old inside our house. But somehow I had in my mind we would do the same even though I was not thrilled about it.

It seems like everything about this opportunity is perfect for us and I have this strange uneasy feeling - I have a hard time making decisions! I think it boils down to the fact that it came up kind of quickly, and much sooner than we thought, so kind of a surprise. Looking at floorplans and thinking about kitchen cabinets and granite and marble and even things like doorknobs and being able to pick everything - now that is awesome! And, although the particular neighborhood is not that exciting, the vicinity to the best parts of town and being close to the major roads is very exciting especially as traffic gets worse here. I think we will go for it. Nothing says this has to be forever, as finances grow over the years, we could maybe think about remodeling an older home while living in this one (a while down the road!) And yes, we would definitely do crown molding and other details to make it special and not generic. I saw you posted some pics of your bathroom a while back - we have similar taste and being able to get something like that is the main appeal of the new construction!

 

[firebirdgold]

I think it sounds terrific! You can add the little details that make a difference, and with that few houses I really don''t think it''ll look that cookie cutter. Besides you could always be a bit daring with the paint and the landscaping.
Go for it! Sounds like a once in a lifetime opportunity and you''ll regret it if you don''t!

 

[Mara]

gail i think that you can do great things inside a house...it's funny, whenever other houses go up for sale here, i like to see them inside...and i'm always amazed at how boring or 'safe' people can be!!! hardly anyone paints the walls or does anything special with artwork or themes or colors or anything. so much of it is just hodgepodge too. anyway...i think if you have a knack for interior design and paints and stuff and patience to find the decor that speaks to you (the fun part!!) you can really make it your own, super unique and especially if you do some cool interior adds like the moulding or dramatic window treatments or similar. also paints are wonderful for personalizing. also if you guys are going to be there long-term you can do things like built-in EC or built-in bookshelves all along one wall in a room or something for some really striking spectacular visuals. or replace one or two of the doors with something more unique or architecturally fun than the ones the house came with. replace your closet doors with something fun like those shutter panels in a room or two.

anyway, one thing i do love about the new houses is it is a clean slate!! and all yours to do what you want with. and gotta say choosing things like flooring, countertops and all that really does go a long way in personalizing the house for you and making it your own. i LOVE our kitchen and the colors in it because it looks so warm with the brown granite and the black accents and the taupe walls...but we saw another end unit the other day and the kitchen was SO sterile looking compared to ours with all white countertops and flooring. so even just things like that can go a long way in being unique.

the amazing thing is we have lived here 3 years and i am just now getting the house to be 90% decorated. it takes a while to make it your own, that's the fun part though. kind of why i don't want to move yet either!

good luck!!!

 

[gailrmv]

Thanks Mara and IndieJones for the reassurance! The opportunity to really customize a place - without having to do the actual work ourselves - is awesome! I am sitting here looking at floorplans and such and the possibilities are almost overwhelming. A few of the homes have a craftsmen bungalow feel to them which we LOVE. Even my mom, who loves charming older homes and established neighborhoods, said this would make so much sense since we are really busy to have something new and low maintenance. Sitting here in our starter home, I remember the hideous wallpaper when we moved in and the hideous bathrooms and I am so proud of how nice we have made it since then. But we could start anew and avoid all that hassle and do like you said, Mara, use color and unique materials to make it truly our own. We will need to get a lot of furniture and such! I think I am most excited that we will be very close to things to do - something we are lacking in our current location. OK, I am now officially ON BOARD!

 

[Cehrabehra]

for me a huge part of it would be how much land you''re going to have/get/want. You might not need it now, but you might want it later... newer construction the lots are much smaller - and that could be a good thing for you if you don''t like yardwork lol

I *like* the idea of getting older houses and tweaking them, they often have such charm you just can''t buy and quality you just don''t find...

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 9/18/2006 8:56:43 PM
Author: Mara
on the other hand, now that we have done new housing (and i have lived in a bunch of new houses throughout my life, my parents are total new construction lovers)...we both secretly covet beautiful older homes with lovely architecture. but along with those perks comes more maintenance on an older home, possibly larger $$ in terms of replacing a roof or a water heater or this or that...depending on when that stuff was last done. there''s also potentially 12 layers of wallpaper to scrape off the walls from the last 50 years, pets buried in the yard, or whatever else old houses have going on.

that last part made me LOL - our poor 85 year old walls are dependent on their 12 layers of wallpaper! lol Under them is lath and plaster and if we took the wall paper off we''d have to totally replaster the walls so we just left it, some of it is textured so it''s really cool. Lots of rich colors hide the flaws

 

[gailrmv]

Date: 9/19/2006 12:05:36 AM
Author: Cehrabehra
for me a huge part of it would be how much land you''re going to have/get/want. You might not need it now, but you might want it later... newer construction the lots are much smaller - and that could be a good thing for you if you don''t like yardwork lol

I *like* the idea of getting older houses and tweaking them, they often have such charm you just can''t buy and quality you just don''t find...

Good point... it''s on exactly a quarter acre - the minimum we decided we could live with. We''d like more, but a smaller lot DOES mean less yardwork! I think if we put up a fence and did lots of landscaping it could be fine. It''s a good point to consider, though!

 

[Mara]

keep us posted gail, i LOVE looking at pictures of new homes and decor and all that...yum! let me just tell you when you walk into your house for the first time and it's all done and you look around at the bare rooms and smell that new house smell and everything is pristine, there is nothing like it. i was SO excited about having this clean slate to play with. i just recently discovered how wonderful paint can be and i wish we had more rooms to paint!! we had a painter come in before we moved in to do 3/4 of the house in a nice taupe color that is not too warm and not too cool and i really love it but it makes me not want to paint over it! but i have personalized our master bedroom in a pale blue, the guest room in a warm golden yellow, the guest bath in a light sage green (restoration hardware has great colors!), the downstairs bathroom in a dark taupe brown, and the office is the last room to be painted, in a dark gray sage from BM. so i guess we have done some personalization with paint while leaving the main living areas pretty neutral so that i can accent with color in there.

all this chat is making me want to paint the office now! hahaha. maybe next weekend.

 

[Small]

I think you should go for it! We''ve built two houses (the only two we''ve lived in together LOL) and it''s really what I prefer. As Mara stated it''s a clean slate that you get to put your own stamp on. No hassles with changing this or that (hopefully LOL) and you can go into it knowing that there is work to do by unpacking and the like but there is nothing to do but decorate and enjoy! We had our house painted almost immediately as we came from our house that took us all 5 years to decorate and I wasn''t in for drab and colorless walls. Now slowly 2 years in we are finally getting all of our pictures up on the walls and have settled into doing more and more landscaping (we had it done when the house was finished but I''m adding more to it) and things on the outside. There will always be things to do but its so much better when you don''t have to look at wallpaper you didn''t pick out or a room color that is horribly annoying.
One other thing...there will always be regrets after building...I should have done this, I wish I would have done that but the best advice I can offer is to take your time, think about all the options, and try not to make decisions based on ''we can do that later''. You can do things later but it''s easier to get it up front and most of the time it''s not going to add as much as you think to the mortgage payment. We had so many regrets on things we would have done in our first house just because we didn''t know. This time we only have a few I wish I would have done but nothing major. It''s such a fun time...how exciting for you

Best of luck!

 

[tawn]

Another option if you go with new constuction, is to visit Architectural Salvage stores/sites and find cool antique hardware, moldings, doors (and knobs), stained or leaded glass windows, etc! I have friends that got things from a turn of the century church, and implemented them into their house plans. You can even find gorgeous old wooden cabinets/bookcases that used to be built-ins with leaded glass etc...

Good luck...and enjoy!

 

[codex57]

We very briefly considered that exact same scenario. Our downtown is starting a revival. Huge luxury towers with condos in them are planned, people are renovating the old cute houses already existing, etc. Then, the guy I work for told me his sister is an electrician. She''s doing a remodel. I dunno how old the downtown houses are in your city, but apparently they''re pretty old here. Some extensive rewiring was required to bring it up to code (and modern expectations). Who knows about the plumbing, etc. Not worth it to me.

Remodeling may be cheaper, but it depends. You also have to figure how much remodeling will affect your lifestyle and enjoyment of your house.

We didn''t want to deal with the hassle of finding many reputable contractors nor the hassle of living in a construction zone. We went new construction instead. Love it. While it is possibly "cookie cutter", the same can be said for the homes downtown. Sure they don''t look like what is built now, but compared to all the homes downtown, they all tend to look alike cuz they were built in the same era. We''re young, so we highly dependent on internet, etc. It''s nice having all the modern structured wiring, newest insulation codes, more efficient a/c and windows, etc. Finally, you really never know how long you''ll be in a house. It''s quite comforting knowing our neighborhood is already nice and crime free instead of hoping that our neighborhood will get nicer.

 

[gailrmv]

Date: 9/19/2006 1:02:30 PM
Author: codex57
We very briefly considered that exact same scenario. Our downtown is starting a revival. Huge luxury towers with condos in them are planned, people are renovating the old cute houses already existing, etc. Then, the guy I work for told me his sister is an electrician. She''s doing a remodel. I dunno how old the downtown houses are in your city, but apparently they''re pretty old here. Some extensive rewiring was required to bring it up to code (and modern expectations). Who knows about the plumbing, etc. Not worth it to me.

Remodeling may be cheaper, but it depends. You also have to figure how much remodeling will affect your lifestyle and enjoyment of your house.

We didn''t want to deal with the hassle of finding many reputable contractors nor the hassle of living in a construction zone. We went new construction instead. Love it. While it is possibly ''cookie cutter'', the same can be said for the homes downtown. Sure they don''t look like what is built now, but compared to all the homes downtown, they all tend to look alike cuz they were built in the same era. We''re young, so we highly dependent on internet, etc. It''s nice having all the modern structured wiring, newest insulation codes, more efficient a/c and windows, etc. Finally, you really never know how long you''ll be in a house. It''s quite comforting knowing our neighborhood is already nice and crime free instead of hoping that our neighborhood will get nicer.

Codex, glad to hear your are loving your new house! Our situations sound similar. In our city, the older homes were built in the 1900s thru 1950s mostly, with the occasional newer house. The established suburbs were built in the 60s thru 80s. Then they started getting farther out, and most of the current suburbs are 30 min or more from the heart of things which is too far for us. Our metro area is made up of several cities and so the location we are looking at is just in between two (nice) cities, all part of the same metropolitan area, and only 5-10 min to get to nice things to do.

Here is the clincher - the older charming houses are going for about twice the price per square foot as the new construction (that is if renovated - but still 1.5 the price if original). So we can get exactly what we want AND get more square footage (or save some $$). We have decided to go for it!!!!

 

[gailrmv]

Just wanted to update you guys and thank you again those people who replied.... we decided to go for it! We signed the contract and paid a deposit today. We feel great about the decision. The only hesitation ended up being with the lot (smaller than we had hoped) but we decided the good far, far outweighed the bad. we are so excited with the location and the house itself and the neighborhood! So we''re moving forward, yay! So many things seemed just perfect about this whole situation, like the fact that we just stumbled upon it when we did, before it was advertised, and that the house will be ready right when we want to move in late spring. Cross your fingers that everything goes as planned. We''ll be making an appointment in the next few weeks to choose all the interior details. I can''t wait!

 

[Mara]

yay gail, i''m happy to hear that you have made a decision and you sound really excited!!! keep us posted !!

 

[gailrmv]

Thanks Mara!!

 

[ChrisXS]

If you can get a good lowball deal accepted, do not plan on selling anytime soon, and can afford to pay with a traditional mortgage, go for it. Many over levergaed buyers who paid with ARMs will be out of luck as rates go up.

At this point, it would be wise to wait until at least spring. Beware of the false rebound. It isn't a smart idea to catch a knife on the way down.

New and existing home sales are down ~20% seasonally adjusted year over year from 2005. The average median selling price has actually gone down this year for the first time in 11 years or so.

Keep in mind that inventory is also at an all time high and many sellers are having a hard time moving at current asking prices. Be wise. This decision is FAR bigger than a jewelry purchase.

Good luck. I personally have been following the market, but I'm waiting it out. Check out this article that I found: http://njrereport.com/index.php/2006/09/27/new-home-sales-rise-median-price-falls/

Edit: I see that you went ahead with it. Congratulations. Keep in mind that if you paid anywhere near full asking price and decide to sell within the next few years, you could wind up losing money. I personally have been priced out by all the speculators, so I'm waiting on the sidelines saving up for my opportunity.