ShawnaRoss
Rough_Rock
- Joined
- Jul 6, 2024
- Messages
- 4
Hi! I'm looking for an OEC with a flower pattern and Kozibe effect. I have been reading as many threads here as I can and finally feel like I can come ask a question 
Browsing online, I came across a cluster of stones with very dark petals. Not gray, but black. Some have individual petals lighting and lightening up frame by frame, which I've read is a good sign if you are concerned about darkness under the table. None of them are very shallow (none below 60% depth); they may not be ideal OECs, but they aren't as shallow as the ones that typically raise concerns here.
As I read here, it's expected to see the camera reflection on the pavilion mains under the table, and the darkness is useful for assessing cut quality. In real life, they should usually look silvery, although there can be similar, though probably less dark, obstruction from my head if I'm wearing one of them in a ring and viewing it closely. Based on that knowledge—thank you, Pricescope!—I just purchased an MRB that has the most crisp and complete arrow pattern I can afford.
But these OEC petals are SO much darker than the arrows I saw on the MRBs. They were all in a particular 360 viewer that I hadn't come across yet, so I was wondering if it was just the camera setup that is behind the images that this seller is presenting on this particular 360 viewer. That's a horribly written sentence; it's just to say that I know it's possible for the same 360 viewer to show diamonds photographed under different conditions and different places. But I thought it was too coincidental for all of the labs I was seeing from this viewer to be so much darker than the other OECs I was being shown through different 360s viewers on the same site.
My first image here shows this particular viewer. I stopped the rotation at a place where you can see the fun Kozibe effects coming off the big culet:
The big culets with exaggerated Kozibe effects were drawing me to these OECs, over the more "polite" and "restrained" ones I was seeing on other 360 viewers. (By polite, I mean the smaller culet stones where the internal reflections look more like 8 pinpoints and tidy sets of tailored pleats and ironed ribbons instead of big splashes of light.) But with the extreme dark petals on these chaotic Kozibes I'm drawn to, does it mean they all that clownishly cut? Are they all "nailheads?"
After widening my search from just 50-51% tables to include 52-53% tables as well, I came across two OECs apparently from the same photo group in the same viewer that had lighter petals. My heart nearly stopped. Are all the others clownishly cut, and these two are nice? Is it that the crown angles / pavilion angles used by whatever cutter/company is behind this set of OECs only make a nice OEC when the table is bigger? (I can't find that out directly because the angle degrees aren't on the certs.) The second image shows the ones I perceived as really dark, while at the very bottom, you can see the lighter ones:
I want to buy one of those bottom two SO much, but I've tied myself into knots about camera reflections on the pavilion mains. As I mentioned above, I have no crown or pavilion angles. I'm too rusty at trigonometry to trust myself calculating them. The dark ones all have tables of 50-51%, depths of 61-63.5%, and crown heights of 18.5-19%. The two lighter ones at the bottom have tables of 53%, depths of 62-62.2%, and crown heights of 20%. They have such puffy crowns on them that the tables themselves are reflecting (glaring) in the 360 degree viewer, which made me concerned that the apparently not-crazy-dark-petals were only because the puffy crown made them closer to the camera and affected the camera obstruction.
This is a lot, sorry! As with any good detective story, there can be clues that are only apparent to the experts, so the witness needs to say everything.
The underlying questions are 1) whether those super-dark arrows are problems or not and 2) if the lighter petals definitely going to be lighter in person. Will they really mostly will be silvery unless my head is in the light, or are these really dark ones a whole other can of worms? Perhaps they might not be good picks anyway because the thickness of the petals makes it really undesirable during the moments when there is an obstruction. (One one thread, Karl said that it could sadly look like a doughnut if the table is small!)
Beyond this abstract question about this weird 360 viewer, of course, I'm also interested in judgments about which to purchase. I'm mostly frustrated by the questions I have about interpreting the images, which is why I haven't brought out the actual 360 degree images or certs.
That said, I did continue looking. The labs in the image below are from the same seller but come from different 360 viewers. So if I can't trust the weird "Extreme Camera Obstruction 360 Viewer" at all, these are my options left. The top left, which has amazing scintillation in the video, is as follows: Table: 51.00%, Depth: 62.00%, Crown height: 18.5%; Pavilion 41%. The top right, which has the best flower pattern IMO, is as follows: Table: 52.00%, Depth: 62.20%, Crown height: 18.5%, Pavilion 40.5%. The bottom two are the very closest I could find in my budget to the measurements Victor Canera uses for the Canera European Round. I don't really favor them because the petals are squashed for me, making them look too checkerboard for me (not Canera's measurement's fault, of course, but just this is the closest I can get with incomplete measurements). No certs on those two, alas, but they're good deals, both 3.11 carats, if anyone here feels like a gamble.
Thanks to anyone who has read this far!
Browsing online, I came across a cluster of stones with very dark petals. Not gray, but black. Some have individual petals lighting and lightening up frame by frame, which I've read is a good sign if you are concerned about darkness under the table. None of them are very shallow (none below 60% depth); they may not be ideal OECs, but they aren't as shallow as the ones that typically raise concerns here.
As I read here, it's expected to see the camera reflection on the pavilion mains under the table, and the darkness is useful for assessing cut quality. In real life, they should usually look silvery, although there can be similar, though probably less dark, obstruction from my head if I'm wearing one of them in a ring and viewing it closely. Based on that knowledge—thank you, Pricescope!—I just purchased an MRB that has the most crisp and complete arrow pattern I can afford.
But these OEC petals are SO much darker than the arrows I saw on the MRBs. They were all in a particular 360 viewer that I hadn't come across yet, so I was wondering if it was just the camera setup that is behind the images that this seller is presenting on this particular 360 viewer. That's a horribly written sentence; it's just to say that I know it's possible for the same 360 viewer to show diamonds photographed under different conditions and different places. But I thought it was too coincidental for all of the labs I was seeing from this viewer to be so much darker than the other OECs I was being shown through different 360s viewers on the same site.
My first image here shows this particular viewer. I stopped the rotation at a place where you can see the fun Kozibe effects coming off the big culet:
The big culets with exaggerated Kozibe effects were drawing me to these OECs, over the more "polite" and "restrained" ones I was seeing on other 360 viewers. (By polite, I mean the smaller culet stones where the internal reflections look more like 8 pinpoints and tidy sets of tailored pleats and ironed ribbons instead of big splashes of light.) But with the extreme dark petals on these chaotic Kozibes I'm drawn to, does it mean they all that clownishly cut? Are they all "nailheads?"
After widening my search from just 50-51% tables to include 52-53% tables as well, I came across two OECs apparently from the same photo group in the same viewer that had lighter petals. My heart nearly stopped. Are all the others clownishly cut, and these two are nice? Is it that the crown angles / pavilion angles used by whatever cutter/company is behind this set of OECs only make a nice OEC when the table is bigger? (I can't find that out directly because the angle degrees aren't on the certs.) The second image shows the ones I perceived as really dark, while at the very bottom, you can see the lighter ones:
I want to buy one of those bottom two SO much, but I've tied myself into knots about camera reflections on the pavilion mains. As I mentioned above, I have no crown or pavilion angles. I'm too rusty at trigonometry to trust myself calculating them. The dark ones all have tables of 50-51%, depths of 61-63.5%, and crown heights of 18.5-19%. The two lighter ones at the bottom have tables of 53%, depths of 62-62.2%, and crown heights of 20%. They have such puffy crowns on them that the tables themselves are reflecting (glaring) in the 360 degree viewer, which made me concerned that the apparently not-crazy-dark-petals were only because the puffy crown made them closer to the camera and affected the camera obstruction.
This is a lot, sorry! As with any good detective story, there can be clues that are only apparent to the experts, so the witness needs to say everything.
The underlying questions are 1) whether those super-dark arrows are problems or not and 2) if the lighter petals definitely going to be lighter in person. Will they really mostly will be silvery unless my head is in the light, or are these really dark ones a whole other can of worms? Perhaps they might not be good picks anyway because the thickness of the petals makes it really undesirable during the moments when there is an obstruction. (One one thread, Karl said that it could sadly look like a doughnut if the table is small!)
Beyond this abstract question about this weird 360 viewer, of course, I'm also interested in judgments about which to purchase. I'm mostly frustrated by the questions I have about interpreting the images, which is why I haven't brought out the actual 360 degree images or certs.
That said, I did continue looking. The labs in the image below are from the same seller but come from different 360 viewers. So if I can't trust the weird "Extreme Camera Obstruction 360 Viewer" at all, these are my options left. The top left, which has amazing scintillation in the video, is as follows: Table: 51.00%, Depth: 62.00%, Crown height: 18.5%; Pavilion 41%. The top right, which has the best flower pattern IMO, is as follows: Table: 52.00%, Depth: 62.20%, Crown height: 18.5%, Pavilion 40.5%. The bottom two are the very closest I could find in my budget to the measurements Victor Canera uses for the Canera European Round. I don't really favor them because the petals are squashed for me, making them look too checkerboard for me (not Canera's measurement's fault, of course, but just this is the closest I can get with incomplete measurements). No certs on those two, alas, but they're good deals, both 3.11 carats, if anyone here feels like a gamble.
Thanks to anyone who has read this far!
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