Recut this spinel or no?

[Cockatiel]

Hi guys,
I am torn whether I should recut this spinel or not. It's a spinel that faces up 11x9, depth is around 6. It's got a window which doesn't bother me terribly plus sometimes I do see a bit of bowtie (which I don't mind). Its pavillion is quite dispersive, the crown less so. I've been wondering if I should recut the crown and the pavillion to increase the dispersion and maybe try make the window smaller. I'm really tolerant of windows and don't mind even this window all that much so mainly the purpose of the recut would be to make it more lively. I would like to use this stone in a ring instead of keeping it in a box and probably won't get around to setting it unless I can make it look more lively. Am I crazy to recut the stone hoping to make it more dispersive and sparkly??? I know the face up size will be reduced, I'd like to stay above 9.5x7.5.

The only concern is the color is not that strong to begin with, and I don't want to end up with a colorless or gray stone or something at the end. Of course I'll consult a lapidary before going ahead with it, but wanted to see what other PSers would do because I feel like PSers assess things like color saturation and tone a little differently than lapidaries maybe. I've had spinels in the light purple to blue color range recut before and ended up with lighter and grayer looking (to me) stones, but the cutter didn't think the color was affected, he actually thought the looked much better, so I'm a little hesitant...you know what I mean??? To me the most important thing is the color, if the stone becomes grayer then it's a worthless stone for me, I don't care about the window or dispersion if it becomes more desaturated. Please chime in and let me know what you think.

 

[Cockatiel]

OK I tried to capture the window

 

[voce]

Keep as is! I think the window will close up once you set it.

 

[T L]

It’s a beautiful stone, I would leave it as is, but if the window really bugs you, I would consult with someone like Jerry Newman. You want to make sure you don’t impede saturation.

 

[arglthesheep]

I would keep the stone as it is. Its a nice size and colour for spinel.
The colour wont change, the cut can intensify the colour if the window is closed, but this window is really small. You can´t change a colour by cutting a stone, except the colour comes through colourzoning in small areas placed in the culet and you cut it away while recutting. But its not the case with this stone...

 

[chrono]

Another vote to leave it as is.

 

[Cockatiel]

So I heard back from Jerry, in case anyone is interested, he said that only the pavilion would need to be recut (so same face up size after the recut) to close the window and also to increase the dispersion and scintillation. He can't say how much color loss if any there will be though. I was leaning towards just keeping it as is, but after learning that he'll only need to tweak the pavillion to end up with a sparklier stone, I'm flip flopping again.

Currently I see lots of sparks of peach/cyan/aqua coming from the pavillion, but not that much from the crown portion. Most dispersion I see is from the pavillion and the girdle area, which was what got me wondering if the stone were to have better cut, the overall dispersion would improve as well? I'll sit on the idea some more...maybe I should keep it as is and just set it in an open setting to allow pavillion display.

 

[Cockatiel]

From the side it's easier to detect the sparks like this, so maybe I'll put it in an open setting.




Looking down, you see it mostly concentrated around the girdle.

 

[voce]

The dispersion is so pretty!

 

[alene]

Pretty spinel! I personally would have Jerry recut the pavilion, since it sounds like it can only improve the performance and not affect the size.

 

[missy]

So I heard back from Jerry, in case anyone is interested, he said that only the pavilion would need to be recut (so same face up size after the recut) to close the window and also to increase the dispersion and scintillation. He can't say how much color loss if any there will be though. I was leaning towards just keeping it as is, but after learning that he'll only need to tweak the pavillion to end up with a sparklier stone, I'm flip flopping again.

My vote is to recut with this new info in mind. It's a lovely stone and will probably be even lovelier after a recut.

 

[SouthernGent]

How much will it cost to have it recut?

 

[Cockatiel]

How much will it cost to have it recut?

I've paid 100-150 usually in the past for similar recuts

 

[chrono]

The “problem” is that once set, you won’t see the pavilion nor girdle, only crown. Sometime a recut increases brilliance, not necessarily the rainbow sparkles.

 

[Cockatiel]

The “problem” is that once set, you won’t see the pavilion nor girdle, only crown. Sometime a recut increases brilliance, not necessarily the rainbow sparkles.

I wonder what it is that causes a stone to have more, or less, of the rainbow sparks. I have spinels that are similar in size, color range and only some would show the sparks and not others. Some are mixed cuts and others are precision brilliant cuts and I actually think the native cut ones w bad windows are more dispersive in my case. So I'm really curious if the rainbow sparks would be stronger after a potential recut here.

 

[Cockatiel]

The “problem” is that once set, you won’t see the pavilion nor girdle, only crown. Sometime a recut increases brilliance, not necessarily the rainbow sparkles.

I wonder what it is that causes a stone to have more, or less, of the rainbow sparks. I have spinels that are similar in size, color range and only some would show the sparks and not others. Some are mixed cuts and others are precision brilliant cuts and I actually think the native cut ones w bad windows are more dispersive in my case. So I'm really curious if the rainbow sparks would be stronger after a potential recut here.

 

[shinyrocks]

Keep it as-is! It would be a shame to lose such a substantial size. Beautiful stone by the way!

 

[voce]

I wonder what it is that causes a stone to have more, or less, of the rainbow sparks. I have spinels that are similar in size, color range and only some would show the sparks and not others. Some are mixed cuts and others are precision brilliant cuts and I actually think the native cut ones w bad windows are more dispersive in my case. So I'm really curious if the rainbow sparks would be stronger after a potential recut here.

Remember Newton's prism splitting white light into seven colors of the rainbow? The rainbow sparks is caused by refraction. The light bends every time it's passing through a medium. Part of it has to do with the refractive index of the crystal/medium, and part of it has to do with how many times the light is reflected between different facets internally before the light exits the gem and reaches your eyes.

Because I don't understand the gem cutting process, and there's a lot of math involved with the facet angles to get an exact answer, I'm going to say that it could be a toss up. Recutting would make the number of facets and facet angles more regular when optimizing for brilliance, but it may reduce the number of times the light reflects internally, thus reducing dispersion, the technical term for those rainbow sparks.

Search dispersion (optics) on Wikipedia for a more accurate answer. My feeling is that that level of technical detail isn't something every gem enthusiast is able to understand, but a cutter might.

 

[Cockatiel]

Ugh I should have listened to you guys. I got it recut. I don't like the stone at all after the recut.

 

[Rfisher]

I'm sorry for you.
But this is a learning forum. Please show us the results?

 

[suzanne2]

Oh dear, I'm so sorry. I'm sure there are good points. Will you show us? The color is wonderful and I'm sure it didn't change that. What is it that you don't like?

 

[T L]

I’m sorry, maybe you can show us? This would be educational for others.

 

[Cockatiel]

I wont take any pics for now to be fair. I don't have good lighting and any pic will show a completely grey stone if I took pics. It seems to me the cut is improved (window is gone) and perhaps the stone is more "sparkly" but the color is now giving me mauve vibes instead of lavender. I know because I have a lot of would-be lavender/periwinkle spinels to compare it against. I am so mad with myself so I will probably stop looking at the old pics and won't even look at this stone for a while. Plus I much prefer step cut faceting over brilliant facets for the pavillion. So you can say the stone is improved in respects that I don't care about and worse in terms of what I am picky about.

 

[Cockatiel]

My feelings are probably clouding my perception but I also get this feeling now that I really hate from flat topped stones. You know the ones with flat tops with big tables. I really hate those. I get this "flat top stone" vibe from this one now which isn't logical because I only had pavillion recut. So annoyed with myself. Will probably stop looking at CS for a while.

 

[Rfisher]

Was this one of OTL's stones?

 

[Cockatiel]

Was this one of OTL's stones?

Nope. She had some 'kunzite" looking ones. This one now just looks like some sparkly morganite to me. I mean I don't get that pastel feeling from it anymore. It's grayish rather than pastel.

 

[princessandthepear]

I am so sorry to hear that you no longer care for your stone. Does the cutter have any suggestions to improve the gem? I have never had a recut so have no idea if asking the wrong question.

 

[Frost]

It's funny but in some cases, getting a stone recut to a theoretically 'better' cut doesn't actually result in a more pleasant looking stone.

Had a few cases like that - there was this beautiful red spinel a long time back that had a window but it glowed beautifully red, almost like how you'd expect a vivid cornflower blue to glow. Just beautiful. Had it recut... And it turned totally dark and extinct. No window, but no great color either anymore. And it was a red spinel, so it was a pretty costly loss.

Then there was a likewise beautiful and glowing cornflower blue sapphire, velvet blue, that turned into a totally color-zoned and well... difficult to look at... stone. To make matters worse, the cutter insisted that he improved it just because the brilliance was marginally better and it was better polished. That was the last time he was given anything to recut.

... and to think I was going to vote 'recut' before I read the rest of your thread about the results.

Sorry to hear it happened! I really know that sour feeling of looking at a stone you felt really proud of and seeing that oh yay, now it's better cut but worse off overall. Can totally commiserate.

P.S. Sometimes you also need to have a second look at the stone after a little while. I've kind of found that my memory tends to idealize colors pre-recut and in many cases I end up disappointed with recutting results possibly simply due to having been used to how it looked before (and no amount of staring at it convinces me that the color stayed the same, even though multiple other people seem to think so - so possibly it's a bit of 'idealized memory' there, at least in my case).

 

[junebug17]

@Cockatiel, I'm sorry about this Do you think you might warm up to the stone after a little time has passed? Another option is to sell it - even though it looks different to you, it sounds like a pretty stone that someone would like. I know this is disappointing.

 

[bludiva]

Ugh I should have listened to you guys. I got it recut. I don't like the stone at all after the recut.

oh no! hoping it grows on you after getting to know it again.