Rescuing Environmentalism, what do you think?

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

http://www.economist.com/opinion/displayStory.cfm?story_id=3888006

Two quotes:
“THE environmental movement''s foundational concepts, its method for framing legislative proposals, and its very institutions are outmoded. Today environmentalism is just another special interest.” Those damning words come not from any industry lobby or right-wing think-tank. They are drawn from “The Death of Environmentalism”, an influential essay published recently by two greens with impeccable credentials. They claim that environmental groups are politically adrift and dreadfully out of touch.

and:
If environmental groups continue to reject pragmatic solutions and instead drift toward Utopian (or dystopian) visions of the future, they will lose the battle of ideas. And that would be a pity, for the world would benefit from having a thoughtful green movement. It would also be ironic, because far-reaching advances are already under way in the management of the world''s natural resources—changes that add up to a different kind of green revolution. This could yet save the greens (as well as doing the planet a world of good).

Now to me this is commonsense, but as with debates about HIV and diamond mining and marketing, I woulld like to understand dissenting views (and I imagine there are plenty).

 

[valeria101]

Date: 4/24/2005 9:40:35 PM
Author:Garry H (Cut Nut)

Now to me this is commonsense, but as with debates about HIV and diamond mining and marketing, I woulld like to understand dissenting views (and I imagine there are plenty)

Maybe there are, maybe not. Never bought into the green agenda because to me it lacked realism.

To me ''Greenpeace'' ideas appears like a necessary knee-jerk of history (could it be that the new economic approach emmerged as a reaction if not result of the extremist preassure ?) and at worst as an unecessary detraction from the straight path to a practical environment management agenda... Take your pic.

The article in the Economist contains one interesrting line: "A proper price, however, requires proper information. " Perhaps the "geens" have just found a new use for themselves - to bargain rather than preach

 

[Regular Guy]

Your inclusion of this piece, Garry, is certainly moving. It reminds one that leadership, vision, and the articulation of that vision in a way that magnetizes the different sides is sometimes challenging, but also so important.

Another key quote from the article:

"If governments invest seriously in green data acquisition and co-ordination, they will no longer be flying blind. And by advocating data-based, analytically rigorous policies rather than pious appeals to “save the planet”, the green movement could overcome the scepticism of the ordinary voter. It might even move from the fringes of politics to the middle ground where most voters reside."

Perhaps what is needed is the idealscope equivalent of data analysis for "greenery."

There is an old saw, which is "something like" that conservatives are only liberals past the age of 40. Also, there is a saying I once heard that seems appropriate: responsibility is closely related to the "ability to respond..."...such that if one is sensitive to a message, insofar as you can hear it, it becomes your responsibility to respond to it. Then again, as much as we would all like to be renaissance men and women, we all have our callings, such that ...who's to say that what one person does, to include your posting of this message, Garry, isn't enough to make the difference that counts.

I, too, have thought that a mind-set that embraces cost benefits in analysis is one that makes the most sense. A great article about Joseph Lieberman in US politics talked about his abilities to "make politics work" locally, to get things done. Perhaps any success in politics, as Feydakin points up, is based on not holding to a hard line. Also, as he further points out, those who are closely engaged to where the rubber meets the road may have some of the greatest sensitivities to the issues, despite appearances to the contrary.

Oddly or not, my mind is drawn to examples in religion by this piece. I have seen in the west a man from Tibet move a bunch of hippies into corporate types by his presence, and in doing so, he has succeeded in helping many of them keep their "green" sensibilities, while wearing a suit. For the hybrid to both exist, and not feel like a hybrid, is the challenge. Pioneers with clear vision make this possible. Alternately, in the reform Jewish tradition, there is a saying...may we move "from strength to strength." Since, from some speculation, horrors of greenhouse effects may have devastating consequences...may the speed with which we make this movement be turbocharged, as appropriate.

 

[Basil Hallward]

I''m new to these forums, but this thread raises an interesting issue, and this article kind of set me to thinking about our reliance fossil fuels.

not very hopeful

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Wow - you guys are blowing my little brain to bits

Very deep and thoughtful, all of you.

Ira i am already well advanced to the Green Ideal-Scope - but it was originally designed for Martians and Princess cuts

 

[partgypsy]

I think this is a very interesting topic. Research in cost/benefit analyses of environmental use has been around but is growing; it is something many academics are doing to not only assess human impact on environment but to also put a value on that change, for example how live coral reefs protect low lying islands from storm surges saving millions in property damage (and lives), how rainforests contain a huge percent of the diversity in the planet and contribute to a better understanding the delicate balance of various ecosystems but also are source of beneficial compounds and future drugs, and how forests and other greenery acts as carbon sinks. Knowledge can only go so far. It would be helpful to put a dollar amount on the value of things that people commonly see as "free" (water, air, public lands) but are in reality finite and necessary for life. But, at some point this information needs to be translated into workable policies. Although this is an issue that affects us all (we only have one planet) sadly leadership at the national level is lacking (Bush''s environmental resources policy consists of asking the Saudi''s to "pump more oil")