Ruby-looking stones and an OMC for a ring

[musicalmeow]

Hello folks! I hope I've posted in the right forum.

Having eyed this ring (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/373414075927) for a while now but still can't quite stomach the total cost after import charges in the UK (over £1400), I'm attempting to recreate a similar design using cheaper materials. My overall budget is to keep it under £1000. From my research so far, it looks like I might be able to keep this goal, but there's still a chance that it may work out cheaper (and less of a headache) to just buy the original, depending on your replies.

For the rubies / ruby-looking stones, I'm thinking of the following three. Given the price, I don't mind any treatment on the stones, as long as they're natural and are not made of glass (though I'm not sure how to know whether something is natural like in the first Etsy listing; I'd just have to trust the listing's description).

(1) https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/1010703292/natural-ruby-oval-cabochon-parcel-343?click_key=7ca088ed01342f795e3b7827bdfddb47153abb97:1010703292&click_sum=9cf77dd1&ga_search_query=ruby+cabochon&ref=shop_items_search_11&pro=1&frs=1 (I like the colours here best)

(2) https://www.theraregemstonecompany.com/gemstone/ruby-matched-pairs-1-47-carat-rubc120 (I like the shapes here more)

(3) https://www.cooksongold.com/Gemstones/Ruby,-Round-Cabochon,-5mm-prcode-61ru-rc50 (I like the price the best, haha)

For the old mine cut centre stone, I've considered moissanite, but they don't seem to hold the charm of the large and uneven hand-cut facets I've seen in antique old mine cuts. So I'm willing to pay a bit more on this stone with the following two stones I've found so far:

(1) https://ivyandrose.com/products/gia...d-antique-cushion-brilliant-vintage-1-2-carat

(2) https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/919717487/light-yellowish-brown-old-mine-cut?click_key=fb0dba6897a6ac59531a48a4ffac87b1b763b0d9:919717487&click_sum=fa906939&ref=shop_home_active_13&frs=1

Then, I plan to have the setting cast in either 9K or 14K, and I think I'd need to set aside at least £300 for that.

Do the prices for these stones (especially the rubies) look reasonable? Which one would you choose?

I think I've included most of the important info here but let me know if I'm missing anything. Thanks for your help!

 

[Obscura]

My two cents: I know that etsy can be charged back in the event it's not as described, and I know a lot of members have purchased from ivyandrose (I think, search threads to be sure) so that is what I'd heavily consider.

HOWEVER, you figure 70-450 for the rubies, 600-700 for the diamond, and 300-500 for the setting, possibly another 100-200 labor/setting charge.

You're looking at low end: ~1000 and on the high end: ~1800 with those choices.

What if you don't like one of the stones? It puts everything on hold. Do you have a jeweler you know does good work? I've had a pendant made with (thankfully cheap) stones I don't wear right now because it looks awful. It is crooked and one of the basket settings can be seen bowing out of one side. (-_-)

Do you like a project to piece together? Is 400 enough of a savings to source stuff yourself? Is 400 reasonable to spend to get something you already love that is already assembled?

Those are the questions you should ask yourself since you have the option.

Sorry this got way longer than intended!

 

[theredspinel]

What exactly do you like about the original?
From your recreation ideas it’s not exactly clear, what part you’re trying to recreate. I would guess it’s just the colours and layout of the stones?

The main selling point of the original ring I would imagine to be is the fact it’s very old. Then the fact it contains an original old cut, then the Ruby sides. (Bear in mind rubies can come in 50 different shades of red/pink)! If any of these factors pulled you in, originally, you’d need to recreate it to get the same joy from your recreated ring.

Just some things to mull over.

 

[Snowdrop13]

There will be customs charges on some of those overseas stone options and I’m pretty sure the setting costs will be more than you expect, especially here in the U.K.! Could you negotiate with the seller of the original ring? A hundred or so off the price would make a difference.

 

[Obscura]

What exactly do you like about the original?
From your recreation ideas it’s not exactly clear, what part you’re trying to recreate. I would guess it’s just the colours and layout of the stones?

The main selling point of the original ring I would imagine to be is the fact it’s very old. Then the fact it contains an original old cut, then the Ruby sides. (Bear in mind rubies can come in 50 different shades of red/pink)! If any of these factors pulled you in, originally, you’d need to recreate it to get the same joy from your recreated ring.

Just some things to mull over.

Looks like she is trying to recreate the whole thing and not just one aspect.

I personally would buy the original, in part because that was what I fell in love with and it's available, it's comparible in price to custom, and in part because it IS so old.

OP: do you have any family or friends in the States that you can ship it to and then have them ship it to you?

 

[Bron357]

The problem with rubies is that they are expensive and unfortunately there are many treatments that turn ugly ruby crystals into something pretty and saleable.
Glass filled rubies are still called “natural” so without a lab certificate you don’t know what you’re getting.
Glass filled rubies are difficult to work with. some of processes that are needed to produce a ring can and have destroyed rubies that have flux filling. They can’t handle the heat from a jewellers torch, the filling turns liquid and “pickling” will likewise strip out the flux filling.
In my opinion it is a “false” saving to buy cheap rubies, no lab report, who knows what treatments have been applied. Better to buy from a known, reputable vendor, pay an appropriate price, and not to have to worry about the integrity of the ruby.
you also need to check if you’ll be paying customs to import gemstones.
And 300 pounds for a “made to measure” setting is not nearly enough. If a cast setting can be modified to fit your gems, and setting is usually 40 plus per gem, then around 500 pounds is more likely. If a setting has to be made from scratch the price could go over 1000 pounds. It’s not just the gold, it’s the expertise of the jeweller, time and equipment (plus rent, wages etc for the business).
so given all that, it may not actually be a saving to try and reproduce the ring. I would email the eBay seller and make an offer. I would offer $1,300 US.

 

[musicalmeow]

Wow, thank you so much for all of your responses! Based on your replies, I'm leaning towards purchasing the original ring. The two concerns I have are:

(1) How insurance during transit is handled through eBay's Global Shipping Programme. Once USPS delivers the ring to eBay's US shipping centre, I'm guessing a carrier like Royal Mail will take over once it arrives into the UK. When the ring leaves the US, does the insurance coverage continue and by whom? Unfortunately the seller cannot insure the ring for more than $650 via Priority Mail Express International, and FedEx international will cost $247.46 at the cheapest rate. Has anyone purchased from eBay sellers who delivered via GSP, or can recommend a reliable courier that can fully insure and deliver the ring for a more reasonable price?

@Obscura - I do have friends I can ship the ring to in the US, but I'm guessing they would face a similar headache of how to properly insure the ring for overseas transit. Since import charges would remain the same, it might actually work out to be more expensive if FedEx or other couriers charge over $200 for private individuals? I hope I'm wrong!

(2) How (un)likely that the rubies were swapped out over its lifetime and are now highly sophisticated modern synthetic cabochons? According to the seller (who is experienced with rubies and holds flawless feedback from customers), the cabs are highly included and are therefore natural, but from what I understand, some modern synthetic cabs with natural looking inclusions can look super convincing as well. Would it be worthwhile to pay extra (I think it's $180) and have the seller send the ring to AGL for a lab report while it's still in the USA?

 

[Paisley2628]

I've collected antique/vintage jewelry for many years. My opinion (and it may be wrong) is that the ruby cabs are not original to the ring. What stands out to me is that they don't fit well in the setting - the empty space gaps that are seen.

Victorian/Edwardian three stone rings are fairly common and there are many for sale. I'm not sure if you continued searching for them after finding this ring that you like.

I'm unsure how to ever "prove" the rubies are original to the ring. If they weren't original, the ring would not hold as much appeal to me or be worth the current price.

 

[musicalmeow]

Many thanks @Paisley2628 for your thoughts. I didn't realise that the empty gaps can be a sign that they're not original stones. I really like this particular three-stone combination of ruby cabochons paired with an antique old mine cut diamond, but unfortunately I haven't been able to find a ring yet with a similar design and stones.

 

[meely]

A few thoughts

I think that whilst ruby and diamond trilogy/ 3 stone rings are common that this combination with 1 central diamond and 2 rubies flanking it is not nearly so common as the other way round with a central ruby and 2 diamonds.

On your ring I like the colour of the rubies (they are heavily included but I can live with that) but I don’t love the diamond. Not convinced the rubies are necessarily replacements, it is not a particularly finely made ring and it’s definitely seem some life.

You may find it difficult to insure and then not pay the value when it gets to customs, I think couriers have to declare the value it’s been insured for.

I love this style of the ring - I actually have a similar thing for my engagement but with emeralds rather than rubies, I sourced the diamond then had it made to my specification the jeweller (DK) sourced the emeralds. I did a wrap so I could wear as a 3 stone or a solitaire. I’ve considered having rubies as a second wrap and decided I would source myself and have a jeweller in the UK make it up for ease. So have you got a trusted jeweller? My inclination would be to see what stock 3 stone settings they can get, source an old diamond that would fit and ask the jeweller to find a pair of bright pink rubies and get it done that way. However I think you need to budget £1500-£2000 but I think you will get a better ring that way with a bigger and better diamond.

 

[Mreader]

I will read the replies in more detail later, but have you considered making an offer to the seller if you really love this ring? Even those who don't have a "make an offer" function sometimes will consider it. I'm not an expert on cabs etc. but to me that ring seems really expensive for what it is so maybe they will go lower.

 

[musicalmeow]

@meely Oh I would love to see pictures of your engagement ring design, if your'e comfortable sharing!

I also like the look of the coloured cabochons flanking the OMC diamond. It appears that this three-stone design with similar cut stones and their placement in the setting might be harder to find. I did find just find a design that has two OMCs and one ruby instead, and it costs 9x more.

Early 20th Century Ruby and Diamond Three-Stone Ring For Sale at 1stDibs | ruby three stone ring

For Sale on 1stDibs - An early 20th Century ruby and diamond three stone ring, the central cabochon-cut ruby weighing 1.72 carats, accompanied by GCS Report stating to be of

www.1stdibs.com

I've been in touch with several jewellers to get some quotes but I haven't worked with any of them. The quotes I've received for the setting ranged from £630 (if I use 9ct gold) to £1500, and I can send in my old rings as scrap gold to reduce the price a bit. This would be my first custom piece if I go down this route. I have to admit that my head was already spinning after just looking for the stones, and I've barely scratched the surface in that area. I really admire the ladies on PS who have the persistence to properly research and oversee much larger projects!

 

[Obscura]

Jeweler's Mutual insures both jewelry and loose stones. They will cover it even at the jewelers or in shipping. Super affordable for a ring in this price range.

Looks like it wouldn't matter with a friend with the customs duty allowance set so low.

I agree with others, contact the seller to see if they'd go lower. Can't hurt.

Scrap gold will not give you much as they will give you about 80% of the gold content. Not the full weight of the piece. Looks to be about $20 here in the US for a gram of 9k/10k gold. Don't expect it to cover the whole amount unless they say they will essentially swap their gold with yours. I've only had one small town jeweler do this a decade ago and it was because I traded up to 14k from 10k as well.

 

[musicalmeow]

Thanks for recommending Jeweler's Mutual, I remember hearing great things about them. Unfortunately, I've just contacted JM and they replied saying that they're not catering to individuals, only businesses. This might be a problem if the seller is operating privately (e.g. I don't see a business address in her eBay listings).

The seller's just ended the listing for now, because I think she's planning to send the ring in to EGL for a lab report on the rubies. I'll suggest an offer when the report is complete, though I think the report alone will already cost her $150+.

You're right; the scrap gold made only a small dent in the overall price of the setting, so I'm not counting much on that!

 

[meely]

@meely Oh I would love to see pictures of your engagement ring design, if your'e comfortable sharing!

I also like the look of the coloured cabochons flanking the OMC diamond. It appears that this three-stone design with similar cut stones and their placement in the setting might be harder to find. I did find just find a design that has two OMCs and one ruby instead, and it costs 9x more.

Early 20th Century Ruby and Diamond Three-Stone Ring For Sale at 1stDibs | ruby three stone ring

For Sale on 1stDibs - An early 20th Century ruby and diamond three stone ring, the central cabochon-cut ruby weighing 1.72 carats, accompanied by GCS Report stating to be of

www.1stdibs.com

I've been in touch with several jewellers to get some quotes but I haven't worked with any of them. The quotes I've received for the setting ranged from £630 (if I use 9ct gold) to £1500, and I can send in my old rings as scrap gold to reduce the price a bit. This would be my first custom piece if I go down this route. I have to admit that my head was already spinning after just looking for the stones, and I've barely scratched the surface in that area. I really admire the ladies on PS who have the persistence to properly research and oversee much larger projects!

Yes it’s a bit stressful; definitely not for everyone. Here is mine

 

[Obscura]

Really? Did they say why like they only have business policies in the UK? It still lists personal policy options on their website.

 

[musicalmeow]

Yes it’s a bit stressful; definitely not for everyone. Here is mine

Wow, this is absolutely gorgeous! Thank you for sharing! #goals

 

[musicalmeow]

Really? Did they say why like they only have business policies in the UK? It still lists personal policy options on their website.

They didn't say why. I contacted them for a shipping quote and explained that the sender would be a private seller in the US who would be shipping a ring internationally to the UK, and I specified the value of the ring and its composition. However, I emailed JM's shipping department directly at [email protected]. Perhaps I should contact the JM department that handles personal insurance policies instead.

 

[musicalmeow]

To update, the seller is planning to send off the ring tomorrow to obtain a lab report for the rubies, so that she can have a peace of mind knowing that the rubies definitely aren't synthetic or heavily treated. I've suggested AGL but she replied saying that she uses EGL for coloured gemstones. I've read on PS, however, that EGL's grading is rather inconsistent and unreliable? Or would EGL be sufficient for at least detecting whether or not the rubies are synthetic? It would cost $65 per stone, or around $140 for a written report for both stones. Once she receives the lab reports, it's likely that she will add the these additional costs to the advert price when she re-lists the ring on eBay.

 

[Obscura]

They didn't say why. I contacted them for a shipping quote and explained that the sender would be a private seller in the US who would be shipping a ring internationally to the UK, and I specified the value of the ring and its composition. However, I emailed JM's shipping department directly at [email protected]. Perhaps I should contact the JM department that handles personal insurance policies instead.

Yes, all you would need is a personal policy covering the ring, and she can send it however she'd like. If anything happens (as long as the policy is active) it is covered. Loss, theft, or damage. I started a policy before my stone when to the jeweler's to be set for my e-ring. Because it's covered then as well.

 

[musicalmeow]

Yes, all you would need is a personal policy covering the ring, and she can send it however she'd like. If anything happens (as long as the policy is active) it is covered. Loss, theft, or damage. I started a policy before my stone when to the jeweler's to be set for my e-ring. Because it's covered then as well.

Many thanks for explaining, that makes sense now. I'll ask the seller if the ring is currently insured with JM or somewhere else and hopefully we can find more shipping options from there.

 

[LD]

I'm in the UK and can tell you that there is a way around the heavy custom charges but it can be risky. In terms of shipping there are lots of companies that won't accept jewellery. It's sometimes better not stating what it is and saying simply it's a "sample".

 

[musicalmeow]

Yes, shipping (and receiving) jewellery in general can be a nerve-wrecking experience for me. I was anxious even for a three-week delay by Royal Mail for a non-jewellery item. I'm pretty risk-averse and have come to realise that I don't handle stress very well. I agree it can be quite tricky to find a suitable courier!