Ruby not what I was told...HELP!

[flutterby]

I was on here about 5 years ago, buying my ering. I was sold a ruby by a local jeweler who also made me my beautiful set. I loved the ring. It was everything I wanted. Too bad the marriage wasn't quite as great. I decided to try to sell the ring. I had someone interested but they wanted to know for sure that the stone was burmese, its not, its african. ( i still have the invoice and everything from her stating it was Burmese)

I'm feel super betrayed about this and feel really misled. I contacted the jeweler and she said to fax her the AGL cert. Is it out of the question to expect her to buy the stone back? I'm not exactly sure what my expectation should be.

any advice?

 

[chrono]

Both parties made some errors 5 years ago; yours was inexperience and in your jeweller’s case, it could be inexperience as well because most jewellers are not well versed in coloured gemstones. My feeling is that your jeweller might have been sold that ruby from her source as Burmese without any verification. It seems like she does want to do the right thing and has taken the first step by wanting to see the AGL cert. It doesn’t hurt to ask if she will take the stone back since it isn’t as represented but given that it has been 5 years, that’s a lot of time in between when you could have had the stone verified. Therefore, I wouldn’t push the issue of having her take back the ruby. I’m sorry for your being in such a situation. I remember you and your gorgeous ruby from way back then and I’m sorry about how the marriage turned out.

 

[Lee Little]

5 years is touchy because she likely has no way of verifying that this is the ruby she sold you. Perhaps the weight and exact size is on the receipt so she can verify but most likely any picture has long been deleted.
A good jeweler will buy a stone back regardless of the time involved IF it can be verified that the stone has not been switched (perhaps during a servicing by another jeweler or whoever). Good luck, Lee

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

I'd like to point out that while your ruby may not be burmese, a good ruby from anywhere is valuable. While you may need the money, if I were you, I'd think about keeping the ruby. You can change the setting if you get upset thinking about "that person."
Perhaps we could see the report you have. If its unheated-- think again.

Of course just my 2 cents. Annette

 

[mrs taylor]

wow, I wish I had some great words of advice. I'm so sorry for what you are going through and hope that this gets resolved quickly for you.

 

[Indylady]

Hmmn..

Sticky sitch. Did you pay a premium for its origin?

I know this is personal info, but you posted the stats and the price you paid, we might be able to help you gauge whether you paid "extra" for origin. Obviously, prices vary from vendor to vendor and there are certain sizes/qualities that cause price jumps, and many other factors that make up the cost of a gem.

If you'd rather not post the cost of your ring, you could take the

total price-cost of setting and setting charges=cost of ruby

then compare the cost of your ruby to Dutton's Diamonds, Africa Gems, Richard Wise, Multicolour, Wildfishgems, and DJ Rare Gems. Africa Gems, Wildfishgems and Multicolour will have the largest inventory. If the price you paid seems more in line for the price of Burmese rubies, and not African rubies, I would consider asking for a refund or partial refund. If it turns out to be a fair price, then I wouldn't ask the jeweler for monetary retribution, but I would encourage her to have her gems certed for the origin that she claims from this point on.

 

[Aoife]

Hmmn..

Sticky sitch. Did you pay a premium for its origin?

I know this is personal info, but you posted the stats and the price you paid, we might be able to help you gauge whether you paid "extra" for origin. Obviously, prices vary from vendor to vendor and there are certain sizes/qualities that cause price jumps, and many other factors that make up the cost of a gem.

If you'd rather not post the cost of your ring, you could take the

total price-cost of setting and setting charges=cost of ruby

then compare the cost of your ruby to Dutton's Diamonds, Africa Gems, Richard Wise, Multicolour, Wildfishgems, and DJ Rare Gems. Africa Gems, Wildfishgems and Multicolour will have the largest inventory. If the price you paid seems more in line for the price of Burmese rubies, and not African rubies, I would consider asking for a refund or partial refund. If it turns out to be a fair price, then I wouldn't ask the jeweler for monetary retribution, but I would encourage her to have her gems certed for the origin that she claims from this point on.

Unfortunately, I think the five year time gap might make this harder to do and have the prices make sense. I suppose it would be a starting place, but it might be a hard sell to the jeweler that originally sold her the ruby.

Msflutter, I'm so sorry that you're in this very painful situation, I do hope you are able to get it all worked out.

 

[Arkteia]

At the same time, WInza ruby are very expensive. So maybe it was not such a bad deal after all. The question is not the ruby, it is the price. An unheated ruby of excellent quality could be very expensive these days.

I bought a demantoid from Russia and it is generally believed that Russian demantoids are better than African, but an excellent demantoid from Africa may carry the same premium as the Russian one. A perfect stone is a perfect stone, especially if it is unheated.

Good luck!

 

[kenny]

So sorry this happened.
I'm curious about recourse here, but I'll start another thread.

 

[VapidLapid]

Did you only just now get the AGL cert? Five years is a long time to wait and then ask for a refund. And I have to wonder if you got a refund would it be what you paid, and if so might you not be better off selling it as the 2+ carat African stone that it is and possibly get more than the refund?

 

[Largosmom]

What a tough situation...condolences by the way, hope you find a future someone who makes you happy. Meanwhile, you want to sell the ring/stone. I am kinda thinking like some others...perhaps the Jeweler thought the stone WAS from Burma. If you like the jeweler, and you seem happy with the setting...and want to continue to do business with them, perhaps you should compare the prices of comparable stones from both locations and request a store gift certificate for the difference in value (assuming it is worth less) and then reward yourself with something shiny and sell the stone for the best you can get. You really don't say if you need the funds or just want to get rid of the reminder...but that seems a relatively fair solution. After all...you did get five years of enjoyment out of the stone regardless of the relationship and it will now have five years of wear and tear even if gently used.

Good luck, regardless, as others have said, a good ruby should have a decent used value, regardless of location.

Laura

 

[Sagebrush]

Msflutter,

I am not trying to make excuses for the jeweler, but, As Chrono said, most jewelers are not savvy enough to be able to determine origin in ruby. They rely on their suppliers to give them honest information.

Consider, however, if it was a nice ruby five years ago, it's still a nice ruby. I don't care if the stone is from Hoboken, a good stone is a good stone. Does the price you paid reflect a Burma premium? Rubies have risen in price, does the buy-back price become a great deal for the jeweler? Are you expecting the jeweler to re-purchase the ring you wore for five years or just the stone? In my opinion the jeweler is certainly responsible for the stone, but a well used ring? That is another story.

Did you get a premier certificate with full grading information? If so, please post, though you can't price a stone based on a certificate, it could be useful and it would be interesting to know AGL's TIQR grade.

A sticky situation, to be sure,

Best,

 

[T L]

Again, no excuse for the jeweler, but in this day and age, it's amazing to find a ruby that doesn't have major clarity enhancement or is synthetic. Origin is the least of my worries. Fine Burmese rubies cost a great deal of money, more than white diamonds if it's over 3 carats. They're the cream of the crop, but a good quality ruby that is not clarity enhanced is still a valuable stone.

 

[FrekeChild]

For anyone who wants to see the ring/ruby in question, check it out:
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-ruby-red-pave-halo.34793/

 

[kenny]

So what would be price difference be between Burmese and African origin in such a ruby?
10%?
20%?
More?

 

[packrat]

Hoboken bwhahaha ever read something and it just hits your funny bone a certain way?

A while back my cousin was whining on FB that she wanted to move and I told her the word on the street is that Hoboken is a nice place this time of year. She didn't think it was funny. Whatever.

Sorry for the interruption there.

I'm sorry about the ruby not being from where you thought Msflutter but I looked at the pictures in Freke's link and it sure it pretty!

 

[T L]

Kenny,
It depends on the quality and size, but fine untreated Burmese rubies of 3+ carats, the sky is the limit. You're talking upper six figures and seven figures for larger sizes. I don't think African rubies ever attain those prices, no matter the quality. Someone can correct me if I"m wrong. Burmese rubies also have amazing fluorescence, unlike many African counterparts, and they glow neon red in the sun or under a UV light source. They are known for that.

Of course, there are lousy Burmese rubies too. Don't think that just because a stone is from Burma, it's valuable. Like anything else, quality is key.

 

[kenny]

Kenny,
It depends on the quality and size, but fine untreated Burmese rubies of 3+ carats, the sky is the limit. You're talking upper six figures and seven figures for larger sizes. I don't think African rubies ever attain those prices, no matter the quality. Someone can correct me if I"m wrong. Burmese rubies also have amazing fluorescence, unlike many African counterparts, and they glow neon red in the sun or under a UV light source. They are known for that.

Of course, there are lousy Burmese rubies too. Don't think that just because a stone is from Burma, it's valuable. Like anything else, quality is key.

That's why I said "in such a ruby".
FrekeChild just posted a link to it.

So again... for the same ruby in FC's link (the ruby the OP is talking about) . . . how much would Burmese vs. African origin change value?

(Again all other thing being equal - as in the same stone)

10%?
20%?
More?

 

[flutterby]

Thanks everyone for your input. I know this is our fault for not being better consumers, but I'm disappointed none the less. Financially I was relying on selling it and had someone who wanted to buy it but wanted an AGL cert, which is why I had it done 5 years later. I was going to have it sent to GIA when we bought it, but we had waited so long for the stone and she offered to send it to a different lab in town. It was certified, we purchased it. the end. Little did i even know that they spelled the region the stone was supposedly from wrong, which is why the guy i was selling it to didnt trust the cert.

so when I sent it to AGL I was convinced it was what i thought it was. well, it isnt. Its a crap stone and there really isnt anything I can do about it. I'm not going to push her to buy the stone back, its been so long. I am still sending her the info, because part of me really thinks we got duped. And everytime we talk to her it is a different story. I loved it and enjoyed it for years and if I get through my current financial struggles maybe I will be glad I didnt sell it. But today, I just wish I would have known more.

 

[diva rose]

This is very disappointing. Sorry to hear about it.
It just doesn't make you feel good when you know you've been misinformed and taken advantage of it.

I don't know the legal systems where you are from, but can you report it to consumer affairs?

 

[PinkTower]

Thanks everyone for your input. I know this is our fault for not being better consumers, but I'm disappointed none the less. Financially I was relying on selling it and had someone who wanted to buy it but wanted an AGL cert, which is why I had it done 5 years later. I was going to have it sent to GIA when we bought it, but we had waited so long for the stone and she offered to send it to a different lab in town. It was certified, we purchased it. the end. Little did i even know that they spelled the region the stone was supposedly from wrong, which is why the guy i was selling it to didnt trust the cert.

so when I sent it to AGL I was convinced it was what i thought it was. well, it isnt. Its a crap stone and there really isnt anything I can do about it. I'm not going to push her to buy the stone back, its been so long. I am still sending her the info, because part of me really thinks we got duped. And everytime we talk to her it is a different story. I loved it and enjoyed it for years and if I get through my current financial struggles maybe I will be glad I didnt sell it. But today, I just wish I would have known more.

I have a ruby engagement ring, and it is not from Burma, and it is still a very nice stone. I am confused as to why your stone is not valuable. Was there something else that the report told you?

 

[chrono]

Note that Mong Hsu rubies are also from Burma but are they of equivalent quality to the older mine Burmese rubies? Not by a long shot due to major clarity and treatment issues.

MrsF,
You made a note in your post that it is a crap stone. Is that because of your perception of the origin or is it listed as a lower quality stone in the AGL report? What is the treatment of the ruby? Again, I am very sorry about your eventual discovery of the quality of your e-ring stone.

 

[T L]

Thanks everyone for your input. I know this is our fault for not being better consumers, but I'm disappointed none the less. Financially I was relying on selling it and had someone who wanted to buy it but wanted an AGL cert, which is why I had it done 5 years later. I was going to have it sent to GIA when we bought it, but we had waited so long for the stone and she offered to send it to a different lab in town. It was certified, we purchased it. the end. Little did i even know that they spelled the region the stone was supposedly from wrong, which is why the guy i was selling it to didnt trust the cert.

so when I sent it to AGL I was convinced it was what i thought it was. well, it isnt. Its a crap stone and there really isnt anything I can do about it. I'm not going to push her to buy the stone back, its been so long. I am still sending her the info, because part of me really thinks we got duped. And everytime we talk to her it is a different story. I loved it and enjoyed it for years and if I get through my current financial struggles maybe I will be glad I didnt sell it. But today, I just wish I would have known more.

The term "certification" is a misnomer. Stones are never certified, they are provide reports, and these reports are opinions, not always definite fact, and can sometimes be wrong. A lab is reputable because it has good gemologists and a great deal of highly sophisticated equipment, but not all labs are created equal and not all lab reports are correct. I'm not sure where you got your original "certification," but if it had origin on it, it could be wrong.

 

[T L]

So what would be price difference be between Burmese and African origin in such a ruby?
10%?
20%?
More?

I would probably say more, but don't quote me on that. A fine quality one carat fine Burmese ruby, untreated, would be at least $15K. I've never seen any African ruby, no matter the quality, anywhere near that high for one carat. I could be wrong. Look at Africagems.com, they sell both, and even their heated Burma rubies are expensive per carat, and that goes up exponentially by carat size. Unfortunately, I've never seen an African ruby, no matter how high the quality, compare to a fine quality Burma. The fine Burmese stones are just in a class by themselves, and that's why people do pay a high premium on the origin. That's not to say that Africa doesn't produce beautiful rubies, they do, but I personally have never seen one that comes close to the Burma gems I have seen. There are some Burma rubies that look like African, but I'm just talking top quality here. Most top quality Burmese rubies cannot be found in stores anymore unless they're part of antique jewelry or were taken out of old antique jewelry. There are many old Art Deco period pieces with untreated top quality natural Burmese rubies, and those pieces cost a fortune.

If the OP's customer wanted an AGL, he/she is probably a more sophisticated buyer, and origin means a lot to her/him, and they know their labs.

 

[Amys Bling]

side note-

packrat- I don't think I got your Hoboken joke.... are you saying it's a nice place to live or not a nice place to live?
sorry I just didnt' catch onto the punch line lol

 

[VapidLapid]

Thanks everyone for your input. I know this is our fault for not being better consumers, but I'm disappointed none the less. Financially I was relying on selling it and had someone who wanted to buy it but wanted an AGL cert, which is why I had it done 5 years later. I was going to have it sent to GIA when we bought it, but we had waited so long for the stone and she offered to send it to a different lab in town. It was certified, we purchased it. the end. Little did i even know that they spelled the region the stone was supposedly from wrong, which is why the guy i was selling it to didnt trust the cert.

so when I sent it to AGL I was convinced it was what i thought it was. well, it isnt. Its a crap stone and there really isnt anything I can do about it. I'm not going to push her to buy the stone back, its been so long. I am still sending her the info, because part of me really thinks we got duped. And everytime we talk to her it is a different story. I loved it and enjoyed it for years and if I get through my current financial struggles maybe I will be glad I didnt sell it. But today, I just wish I would have known more.

I am wondering if you might have some recourse with the lab that issued the cert when you bought the stone. Also I think if this were happening to me I would contact agl and tell them that the report they did on the stone differs from one another lab did some time ago and ask them to look again perhaps. Which lab issued the report the stone came with saying Burma?

Also I have to say though it's already been said, that the stone that was formerly so lovely is not now crap; it is the same lovely stone. It would be the same lovely stone if it were mined in Mogok or Hoboken. You might consider Christies or Sothebys as venues for reaching a better, and larger buying audience.

 

[Fly Girl]

side note-

packrat- I don't think I got your Hoboken joke.... are you saying it's a nice place to live or not a nice place to live?
sorry I just didnt' catch onto the punch line lol

I suspect that packrat's cousin was unlikely to want to move to Hoboken, just as it is unlikely that Hoboken has a mine that produces fine rubies.

 

[T L]

It sounds like, because of the misspelled origin name, your original "certificate" was an appraisal thrown together by someone who visually looked at the color, and not microscopic inclusions, and thought, "Burma color, so it must be from Burma." That unfortunately happens all the time. I'm not saying that is the case here, I don't know that, but it sounds like it. I could put out a "certificate" with a "lab" in the name, and say, "hocus pocus, the gem is from the moon." The important thing is to use reputable labs that can be verified. AGL is the cream of the crop when it comes to colored gems, and if they say the stone is not Burmese, I place a lot of trust in their conclusions. Besides, unless you saw it mined in Burma and you actually dug it up yourself, the origin label on a report, whether it's from AGL or elsewhere, is an opinion. It just means that the inclusions are common to a specific origin, and it doesn't mean it came from there with 100% proof.

Did AGL also say anything about treatment on your gem? That is actually just as important, if not more so, than origin, if you are to get an idea of the estimated worth.

 

[packrat]

Sorry Amy, yeah, just a random place that popped in my head when my cousin was being a whine baby pee pants. Then when Richard said that it just struck me as funny. I didn't mean it in a mean way to anyone from there! (My cousin also didn't find it amusing when she posted on FB that she changed what she wants as a career for the hundredth time and I asked if she was going to be a chicken sexer) (nothing against anyone who is a chicken sexer..just seems like that's all that's left for to to choose from)

 

[mrs taylor]

Sorry Amy, yeah, just a random place that popped in my head when my cousin was being a whine baby pee pants. Then when Richard said that it just struck me as funny. I didn't mean it in a mean way to anyone from there! (My cousin also didn't find it amusing when she posted on FB that she changed what she wants as a career for the hundredth time and I asked if she was going to be a chicken sexer) (nothing against anyone who is a chicken sexer..just seems like that's all that's left for to to choose from)

this. was. awesome. LOL. Thanks for that!