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Salary Negotiation Tips

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larussel03

larussel03

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As alot of you know, I''ve been job hunting for over a month and have finally gotten a bunch of interviews, including 2 second interviews! I just received an offer from a place I interviewed yesterday but they are offering me almost 8K less than I was making previously. They said that they''re taking sales training out of my salary since they are a startup company but I am trying to save for a wedding, and this is quite a drop. And it''s not like I was making a ton, the diff is from 40K to 32K.

What sort of negotiation do you think I can do? The company seems great, the people seem nice and it seems exciting, but it''s a startup company, so it''s risky and they had said that they''d try to pay me similar to what I made before in the interview...

I''m tempted to just take it since the job market is so bad here, but I want to at least try to negotiate...the thing is I never have before, at my last position a recruiter did it for me. I really think that within the next week I''ll be getting at least one if not two more job offers from the other places I''m interviewing at, they seemed very interested so I''m going to ask if I can get back to them in the next week...

Any tried and true tips?
 
How excited were you about this company and the work that they''re doing?

That''s a 20% decrease in salary from what you had been making. I''m not sure about the cost of living differences between Boston and Ann Arbor, but that''s a really significant drop... do you have a sense of what the differences is in salaries between Boston and Michigan? Here in Boston, I made that $32k right after graduating as an undergrad and that was 5 years ago...

My vote would be to tell them that you''ll get back to them next week and hope that you hear from some other places in the meantime. If they''re also offering salaries in that range... it may be that that''s the average salary for your experience in your new location..
 
Studies have shown that one reason women continue to be paid less for the same types of jobs than men is because they''re less willing to ask for more money during hiring negotiations. Men don''t like to take the first offer; women for some reason are often afraid not to. Remember that your starting salary is the base for your future raises, so less now = less later.

Don''t be coy--you need to come right out and tell them the salary is below what you had expected and you need a higher offer. Then, when you''ve gotten through any negotiations, you always finish up by asking, "Is that your best offer?" Usually they''ll say yes, but you may be surprised by what you get.

I think that since this is a sales position, they will be impressed if you do a good job of selling yourself, even if it costs them more money.
 
This is a customer service rep and inside sales position (sort of this combined position they created b/c they seemed eager to get me on board), so I''m not sure that I can go strictly on one for a salary.com type analysis...not to be snotty, but I was almost insulted at the offer they gave me b/c I have my master''s degree in a biological science, have 2 years research from my graduate degree as well as 2 years analysis experience, and I know that I''m a really good worker.

Can I negotiate via email or should it be on the phone/in person? The offer came via email...I havnet responded yet b/c I''m not sure what I want to say yet.
 
Sweetpea, I just went through this today. I interviewed with this company on my own, like you did, no recruiter. I was given an offer yesterday afternoon and I was not happy with the number. It was about 5K less than what I was looking for. Anyway, they made me the offer yesterday. I told them I would like a day to think about things and discuss them with my FI. The number just kept bugging me so this morning I called the woman in HR who extended the offer and said "I don't want you to think that I'm unappreciative with this opportunity, however I was wondering if the salary you offered was negotiable?" She asked me what amount I was looking for, I told her and she said she would talk to the people and get back to me. She was very nice. Not offended at all, which is what I was worried about. She just got back to me and they upped it to a number I was happy with. She even agreed with me that it never hurts to ask. You should do the same. Tell them you appreciate the offer and are excited about the opportunity but would like to know if you guys can negotiate on salary.

Good luck. I don't think you should have to take an 8K pay cut. That's pretty significant.

ETA - I definitely think you should speak with someone on the phone and not by email.

Fingers crossed for you.
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not by email. call them at the least. and DO ask!

i''ve never been refused- ever. most times they don''t give the amount i''m asking but they up theirs.

for instance, if my range is 2-3, they usually offer 2. i say is it negotiable and they say of course and that they''ll get back with me. usually the come back offer is like 2.5 or 2.75.

and although i''ve only been in the working world for a few years, the only time i took the first offer was at my first job. i was so freakin happy i got a job in a hard-to-find-work-field, i didn''t care if i worked for pennies cleaning their floors. i just wanted to be in with the company. i know that sounds horrible, but the company was top-notch and it paid off.

my last job change, they offered a little less that i wanted. not by much though. and i told them i would take their job offer. but i asked if there was any way the number was negotible. they said they really didn''t think so and i said- in a very nice, professional way well i''m a little nervous taking a pay cut, yada yada. they said they''d see what they could do. they came back with a higher offer and i took the job.
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Sweetpea,

I have had to negotiate every salary I have ever recieved. I don''t recommend *asking* if they can raise the salary, I recommend *telling* them what your salary requirements are.

Say, "I really would like to take this position, however, based upon my experience, salary history, and what I would be bringing to your company, I need $XXXXX.XX to consider your offer."

If you flex a little muscle, you''ll be surprised at how they will come up. There is usually a range, and that range can vary by as much as $10,000 to $25,0000 depending on the position. And pad that number a little to give room for negotiation. For instance, if they are offering you $52k, and you were making $60k before, ask for $62,500. That way if they come in at $58k, you can counter offer with $61k. Make sense?

My husband just went through this, and the new company offered him the middle of the range (which, by the way was about a $25k difference from the top to the bottom). He has 14 years experience in that industry, a college degree, and was the top pick out of 2000 applicants.

He went back and forth with HR & the hiring manager about 3 times before they gave him the salary he expected. When they hit a stonewall (which we thought would be the end of the process..with him not taking the job) , the hiring manager told him that he''d be making more than anyone else in his group (but those other folks all have pensions, which are no longer offered so it''s not all things equal). To which my husband told him, "I appreciate your offer, but I can''t make this move unless you can get me at LEAST $xxxxx.xx, my experience is worth so much more than that". A day later, he got the job, an apology for making him such a low offer to begin with, and it all turned out great.

HOpe this helps.

Jeannine
 
HI:

Ask--what could be the worst thing that could happen? I recall a colleague of mine accidently spilling the beans about her salary, which was substantially more than mine, yet we had about the same amount of nursing/teaching experience and were hired with the same title. When I asked her how she could earn "so" much more than I, she told me she negotiated and refused to accept less. In my case, I simply took what they offered me.

When I left that job and went to sessional work, I was offered a job title & salary identical to others who had less education and experience than I. This time, I refused and asked for a higher wage based on education/experience (and what others were paying for the same job) and they agreed and compensated me accordingly. I was glad I asked!!

Good luck with your negotiations.

cheers--Sharon
 
Date: 10/20/2006 4:38:55 PM
Author: *~Sweetpea~*

Can I negotiate via email or should it be on the phone/in person? The offer came via email...I havnet responded yet b/c I''m not sure what I want to say yet.
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The phone is always best for this stuff. In person, you''re on their turf and they have the advantage. E-mail salary negotiations may one day be the norm, but right now I''m inclined to think it would look unprofessional.

Otherwise, I agree with what else has been said here.
 
You have gotten good advice already. I was in a very similar situation a few years ago. I took a 20% pay drop to get better work life balance. I did not regret it. I was able to get several good raises over the 3 years I worked there. The first year I felt a bit demoralized b/c of the pay drop, but leaving with at 5 pm instead of ordering dinner to the office was worth it to me.

However, it never hurts to ask for more! AND, if you get some other offers from other companies, this helps you make your case for the better starting pay (makes you seem more in demand and shows that someone is willing to pay you $X!)
 
Great advice above. Definately ask for more. You mentioned it''s a startup so you will be expected to work long hours so make sure you are happy with your salary before giving it your all. I hope you get a second offer to consider too.
 
I just recently started a new job and I surprised myself and negotiated my pay when I was told how much I would be getting. I live in Hawaii and the cost of living here is outrageous. I mean the median of a single family home last I checked was about $600,000 something around there. Anyway, I just told the interviewer that I can''t take what she offered because of .... I reminded her of my work experiences...basically showing my worth to her and then she asked me what I would be comfortable with and that was that and now I am happy. I''ve never negotiated my pay, but I was feeling so confident in myself with the attitude of letting them know that they need me and I told them why. I just grew a set of balls during the interview which was a good thing. I hope this helps some. Good luck
emteeth.gif
 
one other thought to add for motivation, as this can be a difficult thing to do.....

once you are in the door, odds are good that you will never get the opportunity to negotiate for a substantial increase again. and odds are even better that it could take you 2, 3, even 4 years to make up that 8K difference in raises and promotions unless you are starting with a very significant salary to begin with. companies generally only give 3-4% raise increases annually - barely enough to cover the increase in cost of living, your health insurance, etc. as a manager that has to approve new salaries every year, it always bugs me that this is all we can give esp. when things like gas and health insurance fees can go up as much as 20% in a year. but we don''t negotiate with employees on annual merit raises and even on promotions for the most part. to get anymore than than the annual standard you have to have a boss that is really willing to go to bat for you and a company that is willing to do it, which is not common enough in today''s corporate world. and even then, the most i have even been able to get someone who is an exceptional employee was 5% (and i had to write a lengthy salary proposal document and argue with 4 different people to get it approved).

go for it now. this is the best chance you have got to really increase the final number you will start at. good luck!
 
Also you should consider the job market. Are there 30 other people who can do this job? If so, I'd caution with being too ballsy about asking if you really DO want this job. I actually have wished I have gotten more in other jobs, because I do think that if a company offers you what you know you are worth without hassling you about it or making you ask for it, you will tend to want to work harder for them...I know in the past when a company has surprised me and gone OVER what I asked for, I felt like being the best worker ever and that feeling lasted a really long time. However if you feel mentally lowballed you kind of do feel a little mentally insulted.

However, in the past when I have asked for more I consider the position, skill-set and my experience. Am I absolutely the most perfect person for this job and do they know it? You mentioned your degrees and being a hard worker. Lots of people have high degrees and it's not hard to find a hard worker. Maybe someone who really needs the $32k will be jazzed if they offer them the job and they will be a hard worker too. Are your degrees USEFUL in this position? If not, why would they pay you for them?

These are all things that they think about as well. I always try to think about things relevant to the position. If I feel as though I definitely am the best candidate and I know it and they should know it too, then I feel as though I have a bit more leeway in asking for more $$. Also, how badly do I want the job..and is there potential for growth or a huge bonus that might make up for the lost salary. aka a performance MBO that is 20% or whatever might make up for the lost $8k and it incents you to work even harder to get it than just a salary.

Anyway, I have asked for more money in the past and sometimes I am bulldoggish and sometimes I'm not. It just really depends on the job, the company, how badly I want to be there, how they feel about me. I would definitely ASK if there is room for negotiation in the salary and say that you would like to make closer to what you were before. And see what they say. But I would not say 'I require XYZ to take this position' unless you are absolutely going to be okay with them saying 'okay nevermind, we'll take this other candidate over here'. It IS a risk to demand more money because they could just say nevermind. Asking you can just be told 'no sorry this is just the way it is' and then you can decide how you feel about it.

Good luck!! and congrats on an offer!
 
Date: 10/21/2006 11:13:36 AM
Author: Mara
Also you should consider the job market. Are there 30 other people who can do this job? If so, I'd caution with being too ballsy about asking if you really DO want this job. I actually have wished I have gotten more in other jobs, because I do think that if a company offers you what you know you are worth without hassling you about it or making you ask for it, you will tend to want to work harder for them...I know in the past when a company has surprised me and gone OVER what I asked for, I felt like being the best worker ever and that feeling lasted a really long time. However if you feel mentally lowballed you kind of do feel a little mentally insulted.

However, in the past when I have asked for more I consider the position, skill-set and my experience. Am I absolutely the most perfect person for this job and do they know it? You mentioned your degrees and being a hard worker. Lots of people have high degrees and it's not hard to find a hard worker. Maybe someone who really needs the $32k will be jazzed if they offer them the job and they will be a hard worker too. Are your degrees USEFUL in this position? If not, why would they pay you for them?

These are all things that they think about as well. I always try to think about things relevant to the position. If I feel as though I definitely am the best candidate and I know it and they should know it too, then I feel as though I have a bit more leeway in asking for more $$. Also, how badly do I want the job..and is there potential for growth or a huge bonus that might make up for the lost salary. aka a performance MBO that is 20% or whatever might make up for the lost $8k and it incents you to work even harder to get it than just a salary.

Anyway, I have asked for more money in the past and sometimes I am bulldoggish and sometimes I'm not. It just really depends on the job, the company, how badly I want to be there, how they feel about me. I would definitely ASK if there is room for negotiation in the salary and say that you would like to make closer to what you were before. And see what they say. But I would not say 'I require XYZ to take this position' unless you are absolutely going to be okay with them saying 'okay nevermind, we'll take this other candidate over here'. It IS a risk to demand more money because they could just say nevermind. Asking you can just be told 'no sorry this is just the way it is' and then you can decide how you feel about it.

Good luck!! and congrats on an offer!
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To be honest, I dont think that there really are any other candidates for this position at this time, they had not yet posted it but when I came in to interview for a different position (that would have been a bit over my head I decided after talking to them), they said that they'd actually like me for the position they offered. My degrees and experience are directly applicable in the position (they'd send me for training to build upon them, but I have the specific science background with a focus in cancer biology, that they are looking for). I mean I'm sure someone else coudl do this job as well, it's fairly entry level for someone who has a science and bioinformatics type background, but they said that they felt that my experience would make me better and faster at it, which is why they at least *seemed* eager to hire me. There is an opportunity for a bonus, but it depends on how well this company is at that point since they're under a year old right now.

Maybe I should just call and ask and if they say no just continue on looking for jobs.
 
Date: 10/21/2006 1:03:42 PM
Author: *~Sweetpea~*

To be honest, I dont think that there really are any other candidates for this position at this time, they had not yet posted it but when I came in to interview for a different position (that would have been a bit over my head I decided after talking to them), they said that they'd actually like me for the position they offered. My degrees and experience are directly applicable in the position (they'd send me for training to build upon them, but I have the specific science background with a focus in cancer biology, that they are looking for). I mean I'm sure someone else coudl do this job as well, it's fairly entry level for someone who has a science and bioinformatics type background, but they said that they felt that my experience would make me better and faster at it, which is why they at least *seemed* eager to hire me. There is an opportunity for a bonus, but it depends on how well this company is at that point since they're under a year old right now.

Maybe I should just call and ask and if they say no just continue on looking for jobs.
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Hmmm... so they're probably thrilled about potentially hiring a smart, experienced person for this position, which will save THEM time and money in training and efficiency, but still only having to pay you an entry-level salary! Really great for them, not so great for you. I think it's definitely worth questioning. I don't know many people that would take a 20% pay-cut to continue doing the same caliber of work they were doing previously... unless it was for a significant reduction in hours or stress. So they REALLY can't expect that you would be okay with that.

Good luck and keep us updated!!
 
Sweetpea,

I really want you to know that HR departments are used to salary negotiations. They encourage managers to offer in the lower ranges if they can, to save the company money.

Do not use bonuses as a way to gauge salary. It is a BONUS. They are not guaranteed, you need to get your salary squared away before considering the bonus structure.

I swear to you, no one will be offend if you say "I am interested in accepting the position, but given my experience, salary history, education, and what I would be bringing to this position, I need the salary to be in the $XXXXXX range." If you get any pushback, simply say to them, "please consider my request, discuss it with your HR department, and we'll talk tomorrow".

There is always a range. And even more important, give yourself room to bargain by asking for about 2 or 3grand more than you really want. That way, you can still have another counter offer up your sleeve.

It will only show that you value your work, and not that you are greedy. Companies are in the business of keeping overhead low.

Don't worry about them saying "oh well, we'll offer it to candidate B then" if they are offering you the job, then they want YOU.

If after your negotiations, if you are unsuccessful, you can weigh your options and decide whether or not to take the job. (and you still may).

But one thing I learned..is "NEVER LEAVE ANY MONEY ON THE TABLE". Women are notorious wimps for feeling its greedy or rude to ask for a higher salary. It's one reason we are paid less than men.

And for what its worth...I've always negotiated higher. But then I'm aggressive that way. And its an uncomfortable conversation, and the less said on your part the better. Don't beg, just write down what I wrote up there and say that, and that only. Like my DH says..."if you're explainin' you're losin'".

HTH

Jeannine
 
Is it customary for companies to take training out of your paycheck? They act as though sending me for sales training is to benefit me personally and are taking that expense wholly out of my yearly salary. I thought most companies paid for sales training when it was an entry sales position that they were offering (ie: pharmaceutical companies pay for training and expenses as well, such as hotel).
 
OK--I just made the call and said that I wanted to let them know I''m greatful for the opportunity, but based on my salary history, work experience and taking into consideration that the cost of living here is 15% less than where I previously lived and that they''d be sending me for training, I''d like to get 35-38 per year plus the 20% bonus opportunity. And they said yes to 35K!!! Which may seem low, but is supposedly the same or more per cost of living as I was making in Boston.

I have to admit though, I was nervous that I''d make him mad asking for more money. It''s not alot more, but I had to take into consideration that they are a startup company so I should not push it too much. Part of me is still worried they''ll be mad, but I think that''s prob me being a silly girl.
 
great!! good work!! 35 is closer to 40 than 32 is. trust me they aren''t mad. it shows that you can''t be stepped all over. they probably appreciate your directness! and it shows them that you believe in yourself and what you do.
 
Question - I''m in the midst of salary negotiations also.
If the recruiter says they went to the top of the range - and they are offering you $XX000 - does that mean there is no room for negotiation?

Also - Any tips on how you know if a job is right for you?

Danke.
Scintillating...
 
Date: 10/23/2006 10:18:16 AM
Author: jcrow
great!! good work!! 35 is closer to 40 than 32 is. trust me they aren''t mad. it shows that you can''t be stepped all over. they probably appreciate your directness! and it shows them that you believe in yourself and what you do.
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Supposedly it''s similar (according to a salary website as per cost of living) in Ann Arbor relatively to what I was making before in boston, so as long as I dont feel a huge sting then that''s a good thing. It was scary though I felt bad, but I just couldnt do that little. I''m excited to start a new job soon!
 
Date: 10/23/2006 10:25:55 AM
Author: Scintillating
Question - I''m in the midst of salary negotiations also.
If the recruiter says they went to the top of the range - and they are offering you $XX000 - does that mean there is no room for negotiation?

Also - Any tips on how you know if a job is right for you?

Danke.
Scintillating...
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I dont know what the recruiter meant--you should prob shoot them an email and ask directly.

For me the main points are that it''s something I have some interest in fundamentally (ie: scientific type thing, since that''s what I focused on in school and whatnot), I like interacting with people and the people at the place seemed really nice and down to earth when I was interviewing and we got along really well. I typically require interesting work and great people to be happy at a job. The job I took is marketing/sales/customer service for a scientific product so I think it sounds like I''d like it, but you never know till you''re there!
 
yay Sweetpea...35 is better than 32 for sure! like most things in life you won''t know until you ask..sounds like you went about it tthe right way!

scint..i would still ask if there is any room for salary improvement even if you are at the top of the range. i always ASK at least if there is any room...and usually recruiters seem like they will be honest with you because if they can get you more, don''t they get paid more or something? like isn''t it a % of what you get if they bring you on? i have had recruiters work harder for me than when i get the job directly...so sometimes that can be a benefit.
 
Date: 10/23/2006 11:13:21 AM
Author: Mara
yay Sweetpea...35 is better than 32 for sure! like most things in life you won''t know until you ask..sounds like you went about it tthe right way!

scint..i would still ask if there is any room for salary improvement even if you are at the top of the range. i always ASK at least if there is any room...and usually recruiters seem like they will be honest with you because if they can get you more, don''t they get paid more or something? like isn''t it a % of what you get if they bring you on? i have had recruiters work harder for me than when i get the job directly...so sometimes that can be a benefit.
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YAY! I''m so psyched...I was thinking of asking more but I knew that wouldnt work out so I decided to ask for a number that I thought they''d do. At least we get a bonus, so that will help as well!
 
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