Saudi Arabia Warns US

[AGBF]

Saudi Arabia has, apparently, been warning the United States that the situation in Iraq has disintegrated and is becoming increasingly dangerous. The Saudi foreign minister is quoted below as stating that he has been trying to communicate his views to "everyone who will listen" in the Bush administration. I would be interested in knowing who among that group ever does listen to anything that contradicts his own point of view!

"WASHINGTON, Sept. 22 - Prince Saud al-Faisal, the Saudi foreign minister, said Thursday that he had been warning the Bush administration in recent days that Iraq was hurtling toward disintegration, a development that he said could drag the region into war.

'There is no dynamic now pulling the nation together,' he said in a meeting with reporters at the Saudi Embassy here. 'All the dynamics are pulling the country apart.' He said he was so concerned that he was carrying this message 'to everyone who will listen' in the Bush administration.

Prince Saud's statements, some of the most pessimistic public comments on Iraq by a Middle Eastern leader in recent months, were in stark contrast to the generally upbeat assessments that the White House and the Pentagon have been offering."

article


Deborah

 

[valeria101]

I wouldn''t be surprised if both parties (US and UAR perspectives) are right over an uncertain state of affairs that makes any predictions tenuous. If anyone would know how to build a country overnight, none of the irak wars could have happened...

 

[AGBF]

Date: 9/23/2005 8:27:55 AM
Author: valeria101
If anyone would know how to build a country overnight, none of the irak wars could have happened...

Iraq was "built" before the United States and England invaded it, thereby starting this war. It was hardly a place where I would have wanted to live, but it was a cohesive state. By removing (the despotic) Saddam Hussein and his Sunni backers from power, we created a power vacuum and now there is civil war. Sometimes such a thing happens, "naturally", as when Marshall Tito died and Yugoslavia dissolved into the warring groups that had always lived in the area and whose disagreements helped propel Europe into World War I. In this case, the chaos was created by the US and England. You may feel the war is just (I do not), but I do not see how you can dispute the fact that our invasion took a cohesive state and changed it into a sprawling civil war.

Deborah

 

[strmrdr]

You mean you havent figured the Saudi goverment out yet?

A small but vocal group makes a lot of noise about the Saudi goverment being in bed with the US goverment so to make them happy every few months the Saudi goverment says something bad about the US to shut them up.
I wouldnt be suprised if in some circles its a game of hmmmm lets get together and see what will make them happy for this month.
Some of the stuff that has been said is even funny.

 

[valeria101]

Date: 9/23/2005 8:42:52 AM
Author: AGBF

I do not see how you can dispute the fact that our invasion took a cohesive state and changed it into a sprawling civil war.

Well, between a cohesive dictatorship and civil war is a hard choice. I'd rather skip making a case for either option... if anyone can, perhaps I would not be too interested in that sort of rhetoric either.

"Just war" sounds oxymoronic, despite wars being justified all over the place. Including Irak. If a full blown civil war sets in there, I am pretty sure each party will have a deeply felt justification for taking the chance. Whether these feelings make sense is a philosophical matter well beyond my reach. I've always thought it is surprisingly easy to philosophize about war, given how strikingly senseless would be to do the philosophizing under fire

What Iraq looked like before it had first been touched by foreign occupation, I do not know well enough. On top of that, there's always the question if that state of affairs is feasible to regain or even considered as a relevant reference point by enough interested parties

 

[AGBF]

Date: 9/23/2005 9:12:48 AM
Author: strmrdr
You mean you havent figured the Saudi goverment out yet?

Actually I haven't. I find the country monstrous and have great difficulty looking at it objectively. My dislike of the régime colors my ability to do more than quell my nausea when I read about them. They are absolutely no different from the Taliban. (Except that they have oil.)

What I dislike far, far more than the Saudi government is the chummy relationship the United States has with the Saudi government. The United States is always ready to get into bed with barbarians for short term gains, whether the barbarians are religious fanatics like the House of Saud or torturing, murdering dictators in South America like Agosto Pinochet.

The one President who tried to introduce any notion of morality into foreign policy (supporting democratic régimes that believed in human rights), Jimmy Carter, was laughed out of the White House.

Although it is irrelevant to the discussion at hand, I will share with you that I think Jimmy Carter is one of the best Presidents the United States has ever had as well as a truly decent man.

Deborah

 

[AGBF]

Date: 9/23/2005 10:41:17 AM
Author: valeria101
What Iraq looked like before it had first been touched by foreign occupation, I do not know well enough.

This was actually the only point of yours that I was addressing, Ana. You had written:

If anyone would know how to build a country overnight, none of the irak wars could have happened.

I was simply pointing out that the war did not happen because it needed to be "built".

Deborah

 

[valeria101]

Date: 9/23/2005 12:12:15 PM
Author: AGBF

Date: 9/23/2005 10:41:17 AM
Author: valeria101
What Iraq looked like before it had first been touched by foreign occupation, I do not know well enough.

This was actually the only point of yours that I was addressing, Ana. You had written:

If anyone would know how to build a country overnight, none of the irak wars could have happened.

I was simply pointing out that the war did not happen because it needed to be ''built''.

Oh, I see... I didn''t get it previously because the whole notion of ''nation building'' just slipped away from my mind rather quickly after it was first ''launched''; must have been some obscure discourse, or something - far away from my list of refferences, thankfully. Since you mention, dismantling a country to ''built it up all over again'' reminds me of rather uncivilized bouts of hystory and not much else.

 

[mightyred]

AGBF....great discussion. I am fascinated with Saudi Arabia and the integration and influence on the west and how it plays in politics. I spend a lot of time talking with expats who spent time in Riyadh and to see the change over so few years is enormous.

I would, however, be remiss if I didn''t point out when you said ''Iraq was "built" before the United States and England invaded it'' that it should be Britain not England along with the US that invaded. My Scottish father would want me to clarify! Not that he agrees with the war.....he just likes to ensure people don''t think England is Britain!

 

[AGBF]

Date: 9/28/2005 10:21:48 PM
Author: mightyred
I would, however, be remiss if I didn''t point out when you said ''Iraq was ''built'' before the United States and England invaded it'' that it should be Britain not England along with the US that invaded. My Scottish father would want me to clarify! Not that he agrees with the war.....he just likes to ensure people don''t think England is Britain!

Sorry. I think I remember something about James I making some changes. I mean...it rings a distant bell .

Deb

 

[mightyred]

That''s ok AGBF ....I like to jest! I have had to live with it for over 30 years from my father so it was nice to pay it forward! Know what I mean!