Scam?

[weegem]

Hey all, just wanted to run this past you.

I received an offer and payment on a pair of Tahitian earrings I am selling through Loupe Troop, and the address I’m supposed to send it to is unusual because there’s a smattering of letters in front of the name (left that out), as well as just an odd address;

SG23000214 (name)
18432 NE Sandy Blvd,
Multnomah STE5001
Portland, OR, 97251-6835 or
97230

I googled the first line and the address has come up as an int forwarding company, and apparently it’s very likely to be a scam, as when the buyer gets the goods they claim the box is empty.

I know this will be a dumb question, but I should cancel and refund the payment huh? I’m bummed because I really need to sell my items but I certainly don’t want the added stress of a scam and then potentially be out money and the earrings.

Thanks, Rebecca

 

[PreRaphaelite]

Follow your instinct here. I would cancel if I were you, but it would be interesting to see the other responses you get here. No one can make you sell or ship if you don’t feel 100% comfortable.

 

[Slickk]

If I didn’t feel comfortable, I wouldn’t do it. Sorry, since you would obviously like to sell, but the questionable address here would give me considerable pause. Especially the international forwarding co. That would be a big nope for me.

 

[weegem]

Yeah I’m just not comfortable at all. I’m just going to say I don’t ship via forwarding companies and refund the payment. Bleh, lol.

Thanks!!

 

[OoohShiny]

Does LT offer a similar service to evil eBay/Paypal, whereby they enable the money transfer and are able to reverse payments at will / at the complaint of the buyer?

Or have they paid by wire transfer / PP Friends & Family?

If there is no way for them to claim the money back, you may be safe... (although if they're paying via PP on a credit card, I'm sure they could claim a refund that way )

I guess you wouldn't want any history/reputation ruined on LT, either way!


Yes, it's good that we have these protections for when us normal people experience something going wrong, but sadly there are also people in this world who will abuse any trust or a given system if it benefits them

You will have to state that you will not forward to Freight Forwarding companies in future listings...

 

[marymm]

Is the address showing as the buyer's PayPal-confirmed address? If so, then you should be safe to ship through USPS Insured mail (with tracking). If not, let the buyer know for the protection of you both, you ship only to the PayPal-confirmed address. If buyer declines to provide, then go ahead and cancel/refund.

eta: I just did a quick google and based on search results I agree that canceling/refunding the transaction is the wisest choice for you as seller in this situation.

 

[weegem]

Hi!

The PayPal confirmed address shows as that above, with Singapore added at the bottom of the address, and the options available were international. The buyer sent an email asking it to be sent to the address above, without Singapore. That’s what got me suspicious.

 

[PreRaphaelite]

Mmmmmmmyeahhhhh no.

Glad you checked!

 

[weegem]

Thank you everyone!! The refund has been issued.

And yep, this is another scam to watch out for.

 

[Lisa Loves Shiny]

Ugh! So sorry this happened to you. There doesn’t seem to be any real consequences for scammers. I wish there was.

 

[icy_jade]

Ok I’m from Singapore and I use forwarding companies all the time. It’s an easy way to get items from US since not everyone ships to Singapore. Tbh I’ve received suspicious queries from sellers and felt quite offended at being thought that I’ll be a scam...

So I’m not familiar with the address but yes typically it’s a string of numbers for the name. Could be the case here. I actually don’t think it’s a scam, unless the buyer is really suspicious. If buyer is legit like me, honestly this is really offensive.

Also to put it out there, Singaporean buyers use forwarding service all the time. Clothes, electronics, you name it, we find some way to get the stuff we want that don’t ship directly to us. Pls don’t let this tar future transactions. I’ll be so upset if future purchases fall through because of this thread.

 

[weegem]

I am very sorry you are offended, but the buyer wasn’t straightforward with me. If she had said it was a forwarding address, and if the PayPal address had been the same as the one she emailed me, then I would have gone through with it. As it stood, if I hadn’t used the PayPal address, I would not have been covered.

However, I need to sell my things because I am trying to free up funds for my breast cancer treatment, so I’m really not in a position to take any risks. Fortunately, I’m sure this thread doesn’t have the power to curtail any future purchases of yours because it sounds like you’re pretty experienced in this. I am not. I’m just trying to make an incredibly stressful situation less by selling my jewelry.

 

[icy_jade]

I am very sorry you are offended, but the buyer wasn’t straightforward with me. If she had said it was a forwarding address, and if the PayPal address had been the same as the one she emailed me, then I would have gone through with it. As it stood, if I hadn’t used the PayPal address, I would not have been covered.

However, I need to sell my things because I am trying to free up funds for my breast cancer treatment, so I’m really not in a position to take any risks. Fortunately, I’m sure this thread doesn’t have the power to curtail any future purchases of yours because it sounds like you’re pretty experienced in this. I am not. I’m just trying to make an incredibly stressful situation less by selling my jewelry.

I’m so sorry you are having cancer. Sending you best wishes for your treatment during this incredibly stressful period.

On the scenario being discussed...
It’s not clear to me if you had checked with the buyer or just went ahead to cancel. If you had already checked and the response was dodgy, then of course you are right to cancel the transaction. I was just explaining that being taken as a scammer when you are a legit buyer is pretty offensive/upsetting... just as being falsely accused of anything can be.

Also I felt the need to clarify here even though you already cancelled the transaction as I won’t be surprised if there are people who will remember this thread/discussion and take legit buyers to be scammers. After all this thread will be around for years.

And yes, limiting transactions to US only buyers in the listing would help. Not worth the hassle on either side.

 

[the_mother_thing]

@icy_jade Does PP not have the ability to ‘verify’ the mailing address of someone from Singapore? If not, it’s not the seller’s fault for following PP’s rules and only shipping to verified addresses or canceling the transaction.

If PP doesn’t have the ability to verify addresses in another country, the buyer shouldn’t be asking the seller to circumvent the rules (and possibly laws) simply because the buyer wants something.

 

[icy_jade]

@icy_jade Does PP not have the ability to ‘verify’ the mailing address of someone from Singapore? If not, it’s not the seller’s fault for following PP’s rules and only shipping to verified addresses or canceling the transaction.

If PP doesn’t have the ability to verify addresses in another country, the buyer shouldn’t be asking the seller to circumvent the rules (and possibly laws) simply because the buyer wants something.

I think you can add the address. But it depends on communication... I don’t know if it was made clear shipping only to PayPal registered address. Again, I would suggest to save the angst by making clear the exact requirements. Personally I do try to follow the buying requirement when it’s clear upfront. But when I genuinely want to buy something and the rules seems to change without warning, it can be incredibly frustrating, especially when I really want to buy something.

The thread was about whether the address is a scam and as mentioned I thought there is a good chance it’s not based on my personal experience as an overseas (to US) buyer since I do use forwarding services myself.

 

[the_mother_thing]

I’m not sure someone really needs to say ‘I ship to only PP verified addresses’ when it’s the PP rule in order to have PP protection as a buyer or seller. Why else use PP? If a buyer wants the protection PP affords them, they should respect that the seller likely does as well, and just abide by the rules of the service.

It sounds like OP’s buyer asked her to change the shipping address - that’s circumventing the rules. It may seem offensive to someone who ‘plays by the rules’, but it’s equally disrespectful IMO to ask the seller to do that.

Also, I don’t know how often this happens in Singapore, but people in the U.S. are often targeted with scams asking to have things/money sent to bizarre addresses. My spidey-sense would have been pinging as well in OP’s shoes.

 

[Lookinagain]

Ok I’m from Singapore and I use forwarding companies all the time. It’s an easy way to get items from US since not everyone ships to Singapore. Tbh I’ve received suspicious queries from sellers and felt quite offended at being thought that I’ll be a scam...

So I’m not familiar with the address but yes typically it’s a string of numbers for the name. Could be the case here. I actually don’t think it’s a scam, unless the buyer is really suspicious. If buyer is legit like me, honestly this is really offensive.

Also to put it out there, Singaporean buyers use forwarding service all the time. Clothes, electronics, you name it, we find some way to get the stuff we want that don’t ship directly to us. Pls don’t let this tar future transactions. I’ll be so upset if future purchases fall through because of this thread.

No offense to anyone but I would think that if a buyer is using a forwarding company it would be up to them to alert the seller to that. It is not something that as a seller, I would think to ask. And the buyer who may use this method all the time would have it in mind and could or should, alert the seller. I think taking it as an offense is really unfair. Fraud is everywhere these days. People are, and should be aware of it, and taking steps to avoid it shouldn't be offensive to someone who isn't using a traditional purchasing or shipping method that everyone isn't familiar with. If a buyer would alert the seller up front that they are using an intermediary, then the seller would be less likely to suspect fraud and it's more likely that the sale would be completed. Taking offense when you are the one doing something out of the ordinary (at least for this seller) is somewhat overly sensitive, when this seller wouldn't even think that this was something that was commonly done and is just trying to protect themselves. JMO.

 

[Lovesparklesparle]

PayPal is very clear that you must only ship to registered addresses (ie people that have a real bank account and have been identity checked) in order to be covered by their protection policy. One time I was suspicious of being scammed (them saying the box was empty) so I videoed myself putting the item in the packaging, sealing it, showing the tracking number and handing to the delivery guy, just in case. I don’t know if this would have held up but I figured it would help my claim if needed.

I have also been declined when requesting to have things sent to a non registered address such as for a gift. It’s annoying and frustrating yes, but it’s the rules and I respect that.

 

[Rubymal]

I sold an item on ebay once and the address was a forwarding center. The buyer turned out to be international even though I'd marked "no international sale" on my item. But in my case, I think ebay set up this forwarding service so that sellers would not need to deal with sending international packages. They could send it to a domestic forwarding center and then ebay took care of the rest. However, since this was through an individual buyer, I would've erred on the side of caution as well and canceled.

 

[icy_jade]

With PP friend and family, there is no protection for the buyer anyway. Which is what is mostly being asked in LT for payment.

Re: Can you dispute a friends and family payment?

Hi everyone,

Payments sent through the Friends and Family option are not eligible for Buyer Protection at this time.

If you are paying for an item, goods, or service, we strongly recommend against marking it as Friends and Family.

So, stay safe and don't use this if you're purchasing something - you might be hurting yourself in the long run


From: https://www.paypal-community.com/t5...pute-a-friends-and-family-payment/td-p/841206

 

[the_mother_thing]

@icy_jade Not everyone uses F&F; in fact, I refuse to buy that way unless it’s someone I know and/or have transacted with a few times. And most of the time, when I have sold something, I don’t ‘require’ that method for payment; rather, I usually do what you are supposed to (when selling goods/services) and send an invoice with the terms/conditions reiterated ... for both seller & buyer protection.

I think you are making some assumptions (to support your feeling offended) that aren’t known facts in this instance, unless you are the buyer of OP’s item. Either way, it’s OP’s decision to not put herself at risk, and in her shoes I think she did the right thing to protect herself.

 

[icy_jade]

@icy_jade Not everyone uses F&F; in fact, I refuse to buy that way unless it’s someone I know and/or have transacted with a few times. And most of the time, when I have sold something, I don’t ‘require’ that method for payment; rather, I usually do what you are supposed to (when selling goods/services) and send an invoice with the terms/conditions reiterated ... for both seller & buyer protection.

I think you are making some assumptions (to support your feeling offended) that aren’t known facts in this instance, unless you are the buyer of OP’s item. Either way, it’s OP’s decision to not put herself at risk, and in her shoes I think she did the right thing to protect herself.

I’m not feeling offended in this case. Pls read my post again

Ok I’m from Singapore and I use forwarding companies all the time. It’s an easy way to get items from US since not everyone ships to Singapore. Tbh I’ve received suspicious queries from sellers and felt quite offended at being thought that I’ll be a scam...

Above is considering that I tell them I’m a long time active member of PS... again, my personal experience with other buyers, not the OP.

Anyway, OP’s posting did state F&F. I checked against LT posting.

I don’t think it’s worth the argument and anyway OP has cancelled the transaction so done is done. I’m usually online here to admire beautiful baubles and I shall continue to do that...

 

[the_mother_thing]

I’m not feeling offended in this case. Pls read my post again

Above is considering that I tell them I’m a long time active member of PS... again, my personal experience with other buyers, not the OP.

Anyway, OP’s posting did state F&F. I checked against LT posting.

I don’t think it’s worth the argument and anyway OP has cancelled the transaction so done is done. I’m usually online here to admire beautiful baubles and I shall continue to do that...

Her listing was not ‘strictly F&F’; copied directly, it reads:

Please use f&f paypal option - if not, add 2.9% of the price paid (I will calculate and add it to the invoice).

Your post (below in its entirety) infers you are offended.

Ok I’m from Singapore and I use forwarding companies all the time. It’s an easy way to get items from US since not everyone ships to Singapore. Tbh I’ve received suspicious queries from sellers and felt quite offended at being thought that I’ll be a scam...

So I’m not familiar with the address but yes typically it’s a string of numbers for the name. Could be the case here. I actually don’t think it’s a scam, unless the buyer is really suspicious. If buyer is legit like me, honestly this is really offensive.

Also to put it out there, Singaporean buyers use forwarding service all the time. Clothes, electronics, you name it, we find some way to get the stuff we want that don’t ship directly to us. Pls don’t let this tar future transactions. I’ll be so upset if future purchases fall through because of this thread.

You’re right, it’s not worth the argument. I just don’t think it’s fair to make a bunch of assumptions and/or project your feelings onto someone who was merely trying to protect herself from losing money. It seems to me like she has enough on her plate to focus on without unnecessary guilt about selling jewelry to pay her medical bills.

 

[PreRaphaelite]

This is the only reason I use Etsy to handle the transaction for things I sell - the buyer can feel confident that they can get a refund and it keeps everyone honest and happy. But I do recognize that it costs me. For high ticket items, I can understand why sellers don't want to pay the fees, especially when things are 'final sale'. I get it.

But for stuff listed on instagram, when sellers insist on PP F&F, I walk away.

 

[MamaBee]

I am very sorry you are offended, but the buyer wasn’t straightforward with me. If she had said it was a forwarding address, and if the PayPal address had been the same as the one she emailed me, then I would have gone through with it. As it stood, if I hadn’t used the PayPal address, I would not have been covered.

However, I need to sell my things because I am trying to free up funds for my breast cancer treatment, so I’m really not in a position to take any risks. Fortunately, I’m sure this thread doesn’t have the power to curtail any future purchases of yours because it sounds like you’re pretty experienced in this. I am not. I’m just trying to make an incredibly stressful situation less by selling my jewelry.

I hope you have a smooth and successful surgery..

 

[weegem]

.
@Mamabean Thank you
Thank you so much everyone!!

 

[arkieb1]

I admit I've used forwarding services from the US to Australia as well, they work when sellers are uncomfortable or not used to shipping things Internationally. However, I usually just ask the seller if they will ship someone to me and if they say no then I explain they can use a 3rd party in the US to ship something to me.

The issue here was the buyer didn't disclose that or discuss it with you. It might have been a scam, it might not have been a scam, at the end of the day it's your item you can sell it to whomever you like.