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Settings are not an after thought., What you need to know.

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strmrdr

strmrdr

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Nov 1, 2003
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After reading about several people being unhappy with there settings.
I thought it would be good to start a discussion about what to look for in a setting, what questions to ask, what to look for in the finsihed product, and what to look for when looking for a person to put it together/build it?
What are the signs of a quality product?

I will get it started:

The number one thing to look for is comfort:
Is the design going to be comfortable to wear?
Is it going to get caught up on a lot of things?
Are all the sharp edges removed so it wont damage clothing or flesh?
Will it sit comfortable on the finger and not chaff the other fingers?
If you have kids or plan on it is the ring safe to have them around?
I know a few women that cant wear their rings because it was always scratching their kids.

There are a lot of designs out there that while they look good fail the above tests.
Something that might be acceptable on an evening ring may not be acceptable on a ring that is worn all the time.

Lets hear your thoughts and opinions :}
 
I was glad to see this subject. I thought I had given my DB enough info, I certainly did spend quite a few hours going through catalogs pointing out what I liked and didn't like. I told her such things as I would wear it daily, I didn't want to look like Joan Collins, I like more delicate settings, I didn't want the stone to set up high - things like that. One point I didn't share, was that the DB found the setting and pointed it out to me. From the pic it looked like a winner. When I said yes, I didn't imagine that it would be unwearable with the sharp prongs and the bulkiness of the setting. There were problems with the jeweler as I said like the stone being crooked, the platinum not being polished so there were no rough or dull spots. I believe that the DB will make good on the problems. When all is done, I am afraid that I will have a very expensive setting that I don't like. And I feel like I want to cry or throwup. This is a very important discussion - I have a diamond I am happy with and a situation with a setting that is a problem in a lot of ways. I hope others will join in.
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Unfortunately, good design does not necessarily result in quality crafstmanship.
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DiamondLil
 
I agree, this topic needs to be discussed!!

I have had two engagement rings: both were platinum with approximately the same center stone and total carat weight. The first one was what I would now call a "delicate" setting. The band was very thin and dainty (the reason I really loved the setting!). It tended to slide around my finger, leaving me with the option of adding sizing beads to the inside to alleviate the problem (I have big knuckles and thin fingers!). It had four prongs that held the center stone pretty high off my finger. Well, to make the story short, a month after I received the ring, the goldsmith at my local jewelry store was inspecting the setting and noticed significant damage to three of the four prongs. One prong was cracked, another was stretched so thin it was barely holding on, and another one was catching on my clothing!! I brought the ring back to the original jewelry store and ended up getting our money back!

So then I had the opportunity to select another setting with all this in mind...I chose a much thicker band with six prongs. The thicker band actually alleviated the problem of the diamond slipping upside down into the palm of my hand (no need for sizing beads now!!). And the six prongs also makes me feel safer about the chances of losing my precious diamond. Also, the diamond sits much lower and does not feel like it is constantly getting in my way!

Another thing to keep in mind when choosing a setting is the head (is that what you call it??). My first one actually was attached to the tapered baguettes on both sides. So when my goldsmith realized that the prongs were damaged, he told us we would need to get the head replaced. He would need to remove the baguettes, then cut the setting apart to remove the head. When all would be said and done, he said it would be major, major "surgery" to the ring (not to mention it would be quite expensive!!). So I made sure on my second setting that the head was not attached in any additional places, therefore making it quite easy to change heads if that should ever occur (which I hope it does not!!).

So I guess my overall point is that you need to really think about each factor of your setting (band width, number of prongs, head, metal type, etc)...I personally highly value safety and security!!
 
These are excellent points--comfort, practicality, look, design... It is MINDBOGGLING how many choices are out there... The search for the "right" setting can often be worse than finding the center diamond.
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Few more comments about settings.




--Make sure that you like the way a setting looks on the finger. Settings are hugely personal. I don't like low basket settings now because I am used to my ring head now, but originally I thought I wanted a very low basket setting. Tastes can change as well so make sure you are thinking classic for long-term rather than trendy unless you plan to switch out settings later.




--Make sure to consider if you want the future wedding ring to sit flush with the engagement ring. Many people forget to think about this. If you get a very low basket head for a large round stone or even something like a marquis, what kind of wedding band are you going to have fit? I have a girlfriend who has a marquis ring who never even got a wedding band because she didn't like anything that was out there. Many people do not like wraps, or do not want a gap between their e-ring and w-ring. This is pretty important to consider up front.




My bottom line is that if you are choosing the ring for your gf aka fiancee to be, and you are not sure what she absolutely would adore, do not get something that costs an arm and a leg without knowing for sure she will love it. Many women feel strongly about jewelry and their own tastes nowadays, esp with the average age for engagements being seemingly older than in the past, so making assumptions on a $10k purchase can be heart-wrenching later if your beloved does not see 100% eye to eye with you on the ring but feels obliged to wear it.




There is nothing wrong with buying a beautiful stone, putting it into a temp setting, proposing, and then choosing a setting together or getting a feel for what she wants and then surprising her with a design later. Temp settings in platinum are $300 or similar and gold are $100-200. Not going to break the bank after choosing your expensive stone. So if in doubt, get a temp setting and choose the real thing together. It may save you heartache and $$ later!
 
----------------
On 8/14/2004 7:17:28 PM strmrdr wrote:


The number one thing to look for is comfort:
Is the design going to be comfortable to wear?
:}----------------
Click to expand...


Does this same logic apply to womens shoes Storm?
 
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On 8/15/2004 1:30:53 AM Garry H (Cut Nut) wrote:

Does this same logic apply to womens shoes Storm?----------------
Click to expand...



Is it true that wearing a really uncomfortable-looking ring gets you all the attention? Something like stilettos do
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This I didn't know!

It must take a serious beauty of a jewel to compensate for that darn ring making one look very married though
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Number 2 is security and survivability:
Does the setting protect the stones and hold them securely?
There is often a balance between looking good and doing a good job holding the diamond or else everyone would be wearing bezel settings.
Carefully check the head for cracks and kinks.
Next check and make sure the head is securely attached to the ring.
If it’s soldered on is the solder even with no holes in the joint?
Is the joint well filled?
Iv seen rings that were only soldered ½ way around the head where it meets the shank.
This is a sure sign that someone didn’t know what he or she was doing or didn’t care when he or she put it on or the design of the ring has a fatal flaw.
What material is the head/prongs made from?
According to some experts platinum is always preferred for prongs/heads but not always required.
My opinion on it is if your going with a white setting then use platinum for the head/prongs but if you want it all yellow then don’t lose sleep over it just check it once in a while.
It’s a good idea to check them yourself often and have a jeweler check them once a year no matter what material they are made of.

Is the shank thick enough to stand up to years of wear?
Some designs are way too thin for more than occasional use.
This can become an issue when a design was made for platinum then duplicated in gold.
Due to the different wear pattern of the two materials it can quickly become a problem.

ps. Im kinda hoping I wont have to write this all by myself im not a setting expert so feel free to jump in :}
If i make any errors feel free to point them out also.
 
polish:
Polish or the degree of it, is one of the major differences that Iv seen between low cost and high cost settings.
That said Iv seen some high priced settings that the polish sucked on.
Polishing a ring is expensive it almost always will have to be done by hand on various buffing wheels and cones.
Doing it right takes a lot of time and skill.
Anything that involves the time of a skilled craftsman to do is going to be comparatively expensive to a mass production piece.
The only real difference between a $200 setting and a $600 setting might be that the more expensive setting someone applied a good polish too it.
The degree of polish that is acceptable to you will have to be decided by you but if your paying a lot of money for a setting and it is not well polished then in my opinion your not getting your money worth.
Pay close attention to the nooks and crannies of the setting.
Something else to look for is rounding of corners that aren’t supposed to be rounded and uneven corners and curves.
The inside of the heads are often not well polished if at all on a lot of mass-produced settings.
In my opinion a well polished setting not only looks better new it looks better down the road also.
Every setting is going to get scratched up and the more scratches you start with the sooner it looks bad.
Sometimes it is more cost effective to buy a lower priced setting and have your jeweler polish it up when they mount the stones.
I recommend giving the polish a looking over when you pick out the setting and again once the stone is set and have your jeweler correct it if it doesn’t meet your approval.
If it’s a low cost mass-produced setting and you want more than a quick once over then expect to pay to have it polished.
Obvious defects however should be removed for free.
On a high end designer peice demad a high degree of polish with no defects.
Your paying for it and shouldnt settle on not getting it.
 
Custom, semi-custom, mass produced, designer
There are other categories but Im just going to cover the main ones as I see it.

Custom – starts from raw metal and your ring is formed to your specifications. Usually one of a kind.
Semi-custom – starts out as pre-made parts and is put together to your specification.
Mass produced – produced in large quantities and often automated.
Designer Name – Designer Name settings can also fall into any of the above categories but are usually mass produced just some in smaller quantities that others.
You are often paying a large premium for the name over what a custom setting in the same style would cost.

Which is best?
That depends on what your tastes are, myself I like semi-custom settings.
They don’t have to cost that much more than mass produced settings and the odds are you wont see one just like it on every 3rd persons finger.
I like designer name settings the least they are often overpriced and not that original and way over hyped.
 
btt
 
What to ask:
Some of these wont be practical with an online vendor.
1> Ask for references then check them out.
2> Ask what happens if you get the setting and hate it?
3> How are repairs handled?
4> What alloys will be used in the ring?
5> Can I see actual samples of your work not just pictures?
6> Do you have any BBB complaints? Then check.
7> What trade organizations do you belong too?
8> How long have you been in business?
9> What is the average time to build a ring?
10> Do you guarantee your delivery date or is it an estimate?
11> Is the work done in-house or contracted out?
12> If the waxes are done in-house is the casting done in house?
13> What training do they have and how long have they been doing it?
14> Will you be asked for approval at various stages of the process and see the wax before its cast?
15> Just ask in general what to expect in the process.

Id want to deal with someone that the waxes are done in-house but don’t have a problem with outside casting.
The guy I use has his casting done even though he has the equipment to do it himself.
His reason being is that the casts turn out better on the more expensive machines and it isn’t practical for him to have a $100000.00 machine.
He mentioned that they cast with a min of 3lbs of gold in the flask which makes for a denser setting with less likelihood of having problems which is something he can’t do.
(that’s my interpretation of what he said I may be off in terminology and precise details)
They can also buy the alloys in larger quantities and can do the whole job for what it would cost him in buying the metal alone.
It just makes sense in his case.
 
some tips:
A good custom setting designer should first have you go thru a bunch of books of settings.
Usually a premade setting costs less and you might find one you like it will also give you ideas of what you like.
Don’t be insulted when this happens.
He may also suggest modifying an existing setting to suit your needs.
That isn’t a bad thing and if the person is good you will never tell it was not originally made that way because of the quality of the work.

In my opinion this just shows that the person is looking out for your best interests as long as they aren’t too pushy about it.

If the person starts badmouthing others then it is likely that their work cant stand on there own.
The best artist let their work speak for itself and that’s what a ring designer is an artist.
If your not 100% comfortable with the person then move on until you find one that you are comfortable with.

If your quoted $1000 one place and $1500 at another find out why,
While it could be and often is differences in markup it could also be inferiour materials, workmanship or just less material.
Often it will be the polish that suffers.
The more informed you are the better.
Often you will pay a lot for a "name" so you cant always judge quality by price and to further complicate matters it is often times the same person doing the work for different places and they have different markups for the exact same end product and they arent about to tell you who they use.
It can be tricky at times figuring out what is the best value.
 
Good thread storm, as this is something many people may take for granted, assuming all the important research and education should be for the diamond.

You are correct, the quality of the ring and the finishing of the ring are crucial.

The range of 'finished quality' in diamond rings varies more than I think people can comprehend without being in the business and seeing daily the vast disparities in quality of work.

Consumers would be well served by looking at specific examples of a goldsmiths work.

People spending $10,000 - $20,000 dollars on a diamond that will be set in a ring by a tradeshop may be expecting to get a "Mark Morrell" quality level of work.

But I don't have to tell you that they won't.
 
Thanks Brian


Iv been wanting to write a section on prongs and bezels but im finding it hard to find info on the pros and cons of each.

Bezel - pro: most strenth and protection con: covers the most amount of stone.


1/2 bezel ? ? ? relative strenth?? con: less protection than a bezel and a 6 prong.

6 prong - second in security and protection only to the bezel of the most common types. Can lose more than one prong and the diamond will usualy stay in.

4 prong - pro: covers less of the diamond con: lose one prong and the stone can pop out.

3 prong ? ? commonly only used on earrings or very small stones not very secure and little protection.

2 prongs and a V - I dont know the proper name but it has a v on the point of pears and prongs on the other end. ? ?

shared prong ? ?

channel set ? ?

Ball set ? ?

split prongs ? ?


bead set ? ?

invisible set ? ?
 
btt
can someonee fill in the blanks above?
 
Bezel - pro: most strenth and protection con: covers the most amount of stone.A bezel setting limits the choices of ring designs and elements.

1/2 bezel ? ? ? relative strenth??

A well done half bezel is very secure.

con: less protection than a bezel and a 6 prong.

6 prong - second in security and protection only to the bezel of the most common types. Can lose more than one prong and the diamond will usualy stay in.

4 prong - pro: covers less of the diamond con: lose one prong and the stone can pop out.

3 prong ? ? commonly only used on earrings or very small stones not very secure and little protection. Fine for earrings

2 prongs and a V - I dont know the proper name but it has a v on the point of pears and prongs on the other end. ? ?

I highly recommend V-tips for stones with a point or a corner. They offer much more stability than a simple prong and also protect the vulnerable point or corner.

Note: it takes a skilled setter to do V-tips correctly. Especially on princess cuts.

Ring designs with pears or MQ sidestones held by less than 4 prongs are prone to failure

shared prong ? ?

This truly is a case by case situation. Depending on design and metal.
Thin 14K WG prongs spread to a minimum of metal covering the stones will be problematic.

Platinum prongs set correctly could last several lifetimes.

channel set ? ?

When done correctly, will last many years in gold and a lifetime in platinum.

Ball set ? ?

Not familiar with this term, we probably call it something else in this neck of the woods.

split prongs ? ?

More or less same answer as shared prongs.


bead set ? ?

Probably the easiest type of setting to shake loose in a ultrasonic. Have them checked after every cleaning.

invisible set ? ?

The quality really runs the gamut on invisible settings. Well made and well designed rings will last for years & years.
The poorly made cheezy ones are throw away jewelry, not worth fixing.
 
Thanks Brian :}
I think ball and bead settings are the same thing but am not 100% sure.

edit to add> Further research shows that they are the same thing.
 
2 more types:

hammer set - stone is set into the ring itself so nothing sticks up to get hit on stuff. con: weakens the ring, can make the ring hard to resize.

tension - pro: little of the stone covered. con: needs higher clarity stones, one manufacturer says not to clap while wearing one.
Common ring alloys will not work well.
Done right they will last as long as anything else.
 
Some common settings types.
All images copyrighted to the original owners used for education use only.

STRMCOLLAGE.jpg
 
2

STRMCOLLAGE1.jpg
 
How you don't want your bezel setting to look like:
Look at the area where the stone meets the ring.

yuck10.jpg
 
Some things to look out for:
1 - bad polish it is uneven.
2 - better than 1 but isnt straight.
3 - uneven prongs
4 - casting void. Really bad place for it too as it weakens the prong. - arrow is a little off the hole by the arrow is the void.
5 - uneven prongs - stick up too far
6 - diamonds set to different depths in relation to the top edge of the ring.

yuck2.JPG
 
I believe that most jewelers who make custom-designed jewelery would have a no-return/refund policy on such an item. What happens when the piece is completed and the workmanship is of poor quality? What recourse would the consumer have to return the item for a full refund?




DiamondLil
 
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On 9/2/2004 2:32:49 PM diamondlil wrote:



I believe that most jewelers who make custom-designed jewelery would have a no-return/refund policy on such an item. What happens when the piece is completed and the workmanship is of poor quality? What recourse would the consumer have to return the item for a full refund?




DiamondLil
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Click to expand...


Getting the policy in writing is a very good idea.
The specific legal rights will vary from state to state.
If all else fails and the place is local small claims court is an option.
When purchasing online using a credit card can be a real good idea when it comes to settings.
 
On this ring the bezel is not wide enough to properly secure and protect the diamond.
One good hit from the side would likely send the stone flying across the room.

k102.jpg
 
Hi strmdr,

Long time no see!
wavey.gif
Just wanted to pop in and say what a great educational thread for folks who just know where to begin.
 
:}
Thanks :}
 
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