Should I ask my boyfriend to marry me (story/poll)?

[mike04456]

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On 10/2/2003 4:25:06 PM canadiangrrl wrote:





As hard as this may be to swallow...there's a difference between 'I don't want to get married' and 'I don't want to marry you.' I think that guys sometimes use the former when they really mean the latter. I think what F&I is trying to say (and please correct me if I'm wrong) is that someone who doesn't want to marry you at 25 likely won't want to marry you at 30.

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That was how I read it. (And I agree

.)

 

[canadiangrrl]

With reference to the "males getting pestered" comment, it's not just men who are phobic about commiting.

Canadiangrrl,
Confirmed Heel-Dragger

 

[aljdewey]

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On 10/2/2003 4:28:05 PM fire&ice wrote:




Also, regarding the statistic - I read down & Magna worded it much better. The statistic is that past a certain point of being together the chances of a marriage proposal diminishes. And usually, if one happens it has been a fish or cut bait situation.
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Ah....an important distinction in the equation, and one I much more agree with.

Important to note....there are still exceptions to every rule. I know 3 couples who spent respectively 6, 9, and 10 years together before getting engaged, but they met very young (early 20s). I think as one ages, the acceptable amount of time invested into a relationship without some commitment typically shortens.

A final note to Mara's comments, too: I really do think it has a lot to do also with where one perceives himself/herself in life and what they think that means they have to offer someone else. (translate: for some people, it's important to feel like he's got his own *hit together before he's able to think about committing to someone else.)

 

[aljdewey]

Ah, yes, that is perhaps the most important point of all.




One needs to determine if he's saying:


1) I don't want to marry NOW.


2) I don't want to marry EVER.


3) I don't want to marry YOU.

 

[fire&ice]

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On 10/2/2003 4:25:06 PM canadiangrrl wrote:

As hard as this may be to swallow...there's a difference between 'I don't want to get married' and 'I don't want to marry you.' I think that guys sometimes use the former when they really mean the latter. I think what F&I is trying to say (and please correct me if I'm wrong) is that someone who doesn't want to marry you at 25 likely won't want to marry you at 30.

My question is this - why would you want to marry someone who doesn't want to marry you?----------------

Yes, Canadiangirl. Thanks I don't think I am making myself clear. I have wisdom from experience w/ myself, friend & acquaintances - I'm just having a hard time putting it into words.

To Mara - actually I don't think things have changed too much. Geez, you make me feel sooooooo old school.

We, my generation, were pretty much expected to have a career before marriage. We weren't in school for our M.R.S. degree. We really went in w/ the intention of having a career. Marriage happened when it happened. There wasn't too much expectation. In fact, you were a sell out if you *didn't* persue a career.

We had two schools (actually 3). Those that got married immediately after college. Those that got married in the mid 20's (me) & those who waited well past 30 years. With my close circle of friends it was all around 23-25 or so. I think that the "timing" was not coincedential. I know one friend "pulled the trigger" because he & his girlfriend set us up. We became engaged before them. Marriage for him was not a notion ......until it became our notion. I blame my best friend for the downward spiral of the loss of bachelorhood. She was engaged & planning her wedding while all of us were dating. Just good timing - marriage was already in the air. BTW, we are all still married.

 

[mike04456]

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On 10/2/2003 4:38:33 PM aljdewey wrote:

Important to note....there are still exceptions to every rule. I know 3 couples who spent respectively 6, 9, and 10 years together before getting engaged, but they met very young (early 20s).

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And I happen to have known several couples who dated for 8-10 years, finally got married, then got divorced with a year or two. Me, I've come to think that after 5 years, both parties are wasting their time.

 

[fire&ice]

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On 10/2/2003 4:23:30 PM aljdewey wrote:


On 10/2/2003 4:05:50 PM fire&ice wrote:



Actually Al, it's a statistic. One I lived through over and over again with some girlfriends & boy*friends (boys who are friends).

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.


It is patently *not* the case in every instance.....some people are just not ready earlier in life and are ready later. And I have plenty of real-world experience (self and multitude of friends) to back that up as well.
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Al, read down. I didn't make myself clear w/ what I meant. Magna worded it correctly when I read down.

It's not that any man who doesn't commit at 25 won't commit to *another women* at 30.

The stat comes from relationship longevity & propect of proposal. Proposal rises after x years then begin to diminish w/ subsequent following years.

I'm not saying this is true of everyone. Heck, I defy every statistic. I'm still married. We have no children. I never fall within the norm. But, it's a guideline. And quite possiblity, a wake up call.

When you see a friend who desperately wants to get married & have a family & she is still with the same man who won't marry her over a decade later - it's cruel to be kind to tell someone whose been waiting for a proposal for 5 years that it may never come. Live with or cut bait. BTW, no, she is not happy. She just *lives* with the situation. She has told me she is too old to know anything else.

 

[aljdewey]

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On 10/2/2003 3:55:50 PM Mara wrote:






I also think that alot of relationships are all about timing. It sounds scary to those who are romantics..and think that people are meant to be....but I think that if the 'right person' comes along and the other person is not ready....and they can't manage to connect...then that's the wrong person for the wrong time. Maybe the right person for 5 years later or 5 years before, but not for that time. That same person comes along 5 years later, and things click, they stay together. Weird to think of it that way, but I think it definitely pans out that way. It really depends on the two people, how they click, their levels of 'readiness'.----------------

Oh, this is SO true. I am blissfully happy with my sweetie, and feel lucky to have even found him after truly thinking that I would never marry (and was quite content with that fact.)

We've commented often that we wish we'd found each earlier, but truthfully, it's hard to say that we would have appreciated each other in the same way we do now. It's not that we aren't intrinsically the same people....it's more that time/experience has taught us to place even MORE value and emphasis on the important things, and to cherish things instead of taking them for granted. It's not so much that we've learned what matters....it's more that we've learned what doesn't matter....what's insignificant in the big picture. Tolerance is a beautiful thing. Meeting later also means we are both more established in our careers/finances, so we haven't struggled/argued over money the way some couples do. Over the years, my Type-A-ness has mellowed significantly, too....LOL

 

[fire&ice]

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On 10/2/2003 4:48:50 PM LawGem wrote:

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On 10/2/2003 4:38:33 PM aljdewey wrote:

Important to note....there are still exceptions to every rule. I know 3 couples who spent respectively 6, 9, and 10 years together before getting engaged, but they met very young (early 20s).

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And I happen to have known several couples who dated for 8-10 years, finally got married, then got divorced with a year or two. Me, I've come to think that after 5 years, both parties are wasting their time.
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I don't know several couples like this because once your married you tend to not hang around w/ the long time daters. It makes for an awkward situation.

But, yes I do know a few that I have at least kept up w/ what's going on. Very few survive the marriage. As a caveat, it's a different story if you met your SO in high school - in the scheme of life 7-10 years would not be unreasonable.

 

[glitterata]

All these statistics depend a lot on your demographics--age, education, geography, religion, economic status.

I met my husband when I was 31 (he was 33). We started dating a year later. We got married on the 7th anniversary of our first date. I was ready to marry long before he was, but I'm very glad I waited for him instead of leaving him, which I did consider doing round about year 5.

Many of our friends had similar patterns of marrying after up to 10 years together. Most of his friends didn't get married until their mid-to-late thirties. About half of my friends got married in their 30s, often just before having babies, and most of the rest of them are either divorced or gay. (Many of my gay friends are in marriagelike longterm relationships that began in their 30s, with a fair proportion of divorce-equivalents.)

What's typical of us and our friends might not be typical of you and your friends. But if you're in an unusual situation, take heart--there's almost certainly someone else out there in a similar situation. Probably even a whole community of somebodies.

 

[aljdewey]

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On 10/2/2003 4:48:50 PM LawGem wrote:




And I happen to have known several couples who dated for 8-10 years, finally got married, then got divorced with a year or two. Me, I've come to think that after 5 years, both parties are wasting their time.
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Lawmax: Yeah....sadly, I know a few of those, too. (different from the ones mentioned before). I'd agree....there is a point at which commitment is the next step, and if that point is passed, the relationship diminishes. I don't know if I'd personally set the line specifically at 5 years, 4 years, 6 years....I think those things are variable depending on what point one is at in life combined with the length of relationship (an 18-month relationship at 20 years old isn't quite the same to me as an 18-month relationship at 38.)

F&I: I absolutely agree about your friend who desperately wants the marriage/family.....she definitely needs to cut bait. (I'd almost think it's too late for the fish option there.) The saddest thing: (this has happened sooooooo many times).....she finally says enough, leaves, only to learn that he *marries* the next girlfriend within 6 months of meeting her!

I don't know....but if I were her, I'd feel as though a proposal now would be a hollow "win"....I'd feel as though he were doing it because it's the only way he could keep me, not because he really wanted to marry me. As far as being "too old to know anything else".......well, I know not everyone has this in them, but I do, and it's served me well.

"I'd rather do without than make do."

 

[canadiangrrl]

Okay, no more soft sell here.

A woman will invent NINE MILLION REASONS as to why a guy won't marry her...just like she'll invent nine million reasons why a guy hasn't called.

He wants to get more settled in his career before he gets married...he's not yet fully over his last relationship...the timing isn't right...when there's really only one valid reason. HE JUST DOESN'T WANT TO.

Obsessing over the whys and wherefores gets you nowhere, and won't change things one iota. If you can live with that, and maybe try to wait him out, great. But if you really want to get married, and he doesn't - he's not wasting your time - you are.

Take this from someone who stupidly issued a "commit or we quit" ultimatum at the age of twenty-one, believing it would "work." Well, it sure did, and I spent the next four years paying for it - emotionally, spiritually, and financially.

Next September 4th, I will marry a man who would crawl across broken glass while on fire to be with me. It took me a long time to get here, and now I wouldn't have it any other way.

 

[Fancy]

My opinion for what it's worth...

I just got married (first time, no kids) in May, 2003 (two months before turning 31), and my husband is/was 42, never married before, no kids.

Why can't you talk about whether or not you want to get married??? We did .. and we both wanted to. If you can't talk openly about whether or not you want to marry each other, how can you build a life together with open communication and trust? It shouldn't be a taboo subhect, the word marriage shouldn't be the "M" word ... and if you don't know if he wants to marry you, my opinion is you already have the answer.

I would NOT propose to him. It's not because I am old fashioned (I am an attorney, and very pro woman etc.. etc...), but there is a lot of psychology regarding the man asking the woman ... especially when you are sure of marriage, and he is skirting the issue.

Frankly, I think he has already given you an answer by avoiding the subject, but nevertheless, you two should openly talk about whether or not you're going to get married... after all, that kind of openness and trust is the kind of communication that will keep a marriage together.

Just my two cents.

 

[Kay]

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[/quote]And I happen to have known several couples who dated for 8-10 years, finally got married, then got divorced with a year or two. Me, I've come to think that after 5 years, both parties are wasting their time.
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I hope that is not a general trend! My fiance and I were together 8 1/2 years before we officially became engaged (i.e., bought the ring and made the announcement). We met in college, and it took the first 7 years of our relationship before we finished school: B.A., J.D. (in different states), and LL.M. Then we wanted to have a little bit of time to start getting established in our law careers. We started to talk about marriage in our 3rd year together, and have both planned since then to spend the rest of our lives together, but we were not in a rush to get married because we were not yet at the right point in our lives. Now, at 30, we are ready. I think every person just has his or her own pace -- if you are lucky, your SO's pace will be similar to yours. I think it is more important to know whether the relationship is moving forward towards marriage when both parties are ready, than to have an immediate engagement. I certainly would not worry about running out of time to get married at age 20 or 22.

 

[mike04456]

Does anyone else remember Jenny Jones and her "ambush weddings"? Her producers would find some poor woman whose boyfriend had been dragging his feet about getting married, set up the whole ceremony, reception, etc., without letting him in on any of it, then trick him into showing up at the church and leading him right to the altar before he had a chance to say no. I saw only one of these, and suffice to say, was absolutely appalled. Thankfully, they were one sort of reality programming that never caught on.

 

[mike04456]

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On 10/2/2003 5:35:55 PM Kay wrote:

I hope that is not a general trend!

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Well, the couples I refer to were not like you. They were basically just going in circles for years. As a lawyer myself, I can certainly understand your reasons. Dating and law school do not really mix!

 

[Mara]

My gosh--I go away for an hour in a meeting and come back to this!! I don't even know what to respond to!

Yes there is a huge difference between I don't want to get married and I don't want to marry you. Having been on both sides of the relationship before, it always seems like there is one person in the relationship that is more INTO it than the other up until some point. Until you get around the right person, the right feeling etc. Now my fiance and I are on the same levels, but we kind of swapped back and forth forth for a little while when figuring things out. I made it clear to him that I was not going to hang around if he could tell me after the end of the 2nd year that YES I WAS THE ONE FOR HIM. If he was still waffling after 2 years of being with me...I didn't want to go any further and I was going to stick to that. That is what I let him know. I was not going to hang around and waste my precious time...too close to 30 for that!

So that is how I lit the fire. I didn't pester or whine, I just said...this is it. You have your timeframe. It's not unreasonable (he agreed). After the timeframe passed and he could say....yes he wanted to get hitched at some point, THEN I got anxious.

But he didn't drag his heels..thank goodness..after that.




But if after 2 years he had said...yanno I still really don't know...I would have had to cut my losses and move on. Sometimes it's just not meant to be and others it works out fine in the end. I think that the person I am now is ready for that next big step (ooh scary!!), but 5 years ago I wasn't, and he wasn't..and 2 years ago, he wasn't and I wasn't. And now...we are. Lucky for us.




We joke around about meeting earlier, etc etc...but as AL noted...it just wouldn't have been the same. He's changed ALOT in the last 10 years and so have I....I don't think we would have clicked way back when. We also almost didn't click in the beginning because I was in the 'I'm going to date' mindframe and he was in the 'I want a relationship' mindframe. We almost missed each other's boats. But we didn't. Very lucky. I tell him all the time. /idealbb/images/smilies/love.gif

 

[fire&ice]

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On 10/2/2003 6:21:12 PM Mara wrote:


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I remember a friend who said living life was truly about living "moments". I 'm a big picture of life girl - but...it's those moments - maybe they are meant to be - that define your life.

Him: way to into the sporting event on TV
Me: way into myself & my freedom to care. I thought I looked really cool in my cords.
Him: Getting into the game.
Me: Finding his enthusiasm contagious
Him: Games over. Turns to my friend: "now what was her name again?"
Place: silent
Friend: look of horror
Me: WHHHHAAATTT?
Him: Confused
Me: SHOUTING: MY NAME IS ""
Friend: hoping she isn't packing heat (kidding)
Him: You want to dance?...innocently
Me: Umm... Well O.K. But pay atttention for the quiz you may be given later.
Him: whatever

To this day it is my friend's (male - so told from a male perpective) funniest story of all to tell. People who know me just die laughing over & over again.

I'm not used to people dissing me. I knew I met my match.

Moment: less than a minute.

 

[Hest88]

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On 10/2/2003 5:25:54 PM Fancy wrote:











Why can't you talk about whether or not you want to get married??? We did .. and we both wanted to. If you can't talk openly about whether or not you want to marry each other, how can you build a life together with open communication and trust

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Gosh, I come back in the morning, and see how huge this thread has become?

To answer Fancy, I think courtship is very different when you're in your late 20s and above as opposed to when you're younger. Most people in their early 20s are still learning about themselves and figuring out who they are. A 21 year old woman who asked a guy on a first date if he saw them getting married would be, uh, rather psycho. A 30 year old, though, who is established in her career and ready to focus on a relationship, can more understandably discuss with a man what she's looking for.

My story: I married stupidly at 22 to my first boyfriend. Miserable marriage. Divorced and spent my late 20s as a happy singleton. I didn't date, but acquired hobbies, and went out with friends a lot. Somewhere along the way I fully grew into myself, understood who I was, and knew what I wanted and didn't want out of life. At the time, I really felt I'd be able to live a fulfilled life without a man.

Then now DH literally appeared on my doorstep to ask me out. On the 2nd date I told him I was only interested in a serious relationship. He said, "What do you mean by serious?" I said, "One that's leading to marriage." He considered us engaged from that moment, after spending 36 years refusing to marry one girlfriend after another.

We had known each other briefly 9 years prior, and we sometimes talk about all those "wasted" years. Like Mara said, though, and like Aljdewey, we know that we both had a lot of growing-up to do to make us the kind of people who could fall in love with each other and sustain a marriage. If we had gotten together back in 1989 we probably wouldn't have stayed together. I *am* a romantic, and I believe in fate when it comes to love, but also I believe that proper timing is an integral part of fate.

 

[shurikt]

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On 10/2/2003 5:19:44 PM canadiangrrl wrote:

Next September 4th, I will marry a man who would crawl across broken glass while on fire to be with me.

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That's going to be one disturbing wedding ceremony.

 

[Lanee]

Shurikt-hilarious!

Reading all of this makes me feel so good, I relate to a few different scenarios in this thread and found it most reassuring. I agree with alll (I think) of the opinions here. Though I didn't read the first page-I may be back for editing.

edited to add: Nope, I'm sure I agree with the general thread advice here.

Do you guys thinks it's interesting that if Beansy had waited a week- she wouldn't have come to the forum for advice and we wouldn't be on page 2 of this thread? However, I love these threads every time.

 

[DP]

I've probably missed most of the hot debate on this topic but IMO there are definitely 2 elements here - right PERSON, and right TIME. How many of us have been in young relationships where we both know we're too young to commit (some do anyway, some don't) with some deep-rooted belief that we'll just grow together, only to end up growing apart? I'm not really statistically minded but I can't help noticing the divorce rate creeping up towards 1 in 2. Why should divorce lawyers make all the money?

Many times I've thought to myself 'if only I'd met this girl 5 years later' - but I didn't and I enjoyed what we had at the time. NO REGRETS. At the tender age of 31, and thinking that if I met the right girl I would be ready to commit to her only for about 3-4 years, I feel very lucky that another of those special people has come into my life - though now it's at the right time.

It's not like I was ever anti-marriage or even frightened of commitment (which will come as a surprise to many I know) but with the financially and emotionally crippling effects of broken marriages - especially those with children - more and more evident in society, how scary is it to commit to the wrong person? Once you're over the hot romantic ideas it gives a man a lot to think about!

So finally, I'm ready - but now I want to make the situation perfect so that's taken a few months to organise. I'll find out if it was all worth the planning next weekend

I can't and won't tell anybody else here how to run their relationships, but I hope that may have offered some small explanation as to why some of us wait so long.

In answer to the first question by the way - I would be mortified if a girl formally proposed to me, though subtle hints are always well-received (helps me to think it'll work when I do it!). It would make me think I wasn't doing my job properly.

But then again what do you expect of another stiff-ar*ed Brit?!

 

[fire&ice]

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On 10/4/2003 3:32:36 AM DP wrote:

too young to commit (some do anyway, some don't) with some deep-rooted belief that we'll just grow together, only to end up growing apart? -

But - Heed this - For a successful marriage you *must* grow together. It takes effort. It's a challenge to rise up to. Growing together is inclusive & not exclusive. Age at marriage has little to do w/ the ability to grow together.

I hear many in this thread want to get to a certain point financially. We attained that point *together*. It's *our* goal.

But, this is just the rantings of an old married (going into 2 decades) middle aged women.

 

[Chrissycat]

Hi Everyone I'm new and I had to answer this post. I knew a girl who proposed to her boyfriend. They were together for 10 years. When she proposed he cried is eyes out. He said yes of course.They now have a 2 year old baby girl.I guess you just know when it's right when it's right.

 

[mtrb]

Perhaps I am old fashioned, however I feel that you should drop some major hints, or even talk about it openly and tell him what you think and that you want to get married. Many of the things that have been traditionally part of the male role have been taken away from men over recent years..this is something that I think should stay. I know I would have regretted it if my wife asked me to marry and not the other way around. It is just one of those things that can still make a man feel like a man. Perhaps you know him better and he doesnt really care or won't take that incentive, but how do you think he will reflect on this later in life, or while telling your friends or kids.. I think it would make me feel a bit like a wimp..perhaps those are my own issues,but there are my two cents. Good luck