Should PS regulars ask people to leave?

[Greg]

I''ve seen some threads where PS regulars have asked or told other users to leave the forum if they don''t like or disagree with what they''ve read. Is this cool? Or should the PS regulars with the problem refrain from responding to the user that bugs them and let others try to help or let the poor shmo who doesn''t get it give up in his own time?

 

[researcher]

While I've been part of PS I've learned there's some "bad blood" between some of the experts on this forum and those on at least one other forum. As such, there are occasionally people who join the forum here just to cut down some members or twist what's said to make the information given here seem inaccurate, pushy, etc. I would never have guessed this until a message I wrote and the response I received was twisted around to make the expert look bad. It's very unfortunate that this stuff happens because it puts people on the defensive when ideas shared here are questioned in depth. Anyway, I think this is the primary reason why people tell others they should leave if they don't agree with the advice given on this forum.

 

[verticalhorizon]

Interesting.

I can't speak for anyone buy myself, but I THINK what happens when you hear this kind of statement is an act of frustration.

The poster telling someone to 'leave if they don't like that they're reading' really isn't telling them to leave. They're expressing themselves freely. The alleged offender also has the equal amount of freedom to not leave and cause as much of a fuss as they want.

I think the forum and Leonid does a fair job of policing itself. Not in gentrification tactics, but in trying to keep things fair. Fair doesn't always mean equal however.

 

[researcher]

Oh, and I agree with VH that it's just an expression, not people actually telling others to leave. It's just frustrating when you state your opinions and have them completely shot down time and time again by one person (who may purposely be trying to ruffle your feathers).

 

[Mara]

As one of the people you mention, I agree that we all have the right to express ourselves freely, which thankfully we do!




Now how many of the people who I invite to leave if they can't get along with others actually LEAVE? Right away? NONE! But within a week or two weeks, most of them get tired of the aggression and the fact that no one agrees with them (hmm wonder why?) and they go away and probably bother some other forum. Some of them stick around and lurk only to surface to start another fight with someone, and others stick around and actually become useful members of the forum in time.




However, most that would come into an internet forum and within a month start picking apart experts or technology or someone's opinion have no real long-term value to the forum. This is of course my opinion, but I've seen it often in the last few years. Stick around a few years and then ask this question.

Now is it right that I, as a PS regular, tell someone to leave if they don't like the forum and it's views? Well, yeah, because that's my opinion. I am a regular, but I don't get paid to be here, I don't have moderator status, I'm just a consumer who has stuck around a while. I have no influence other than using my voice to express myself.




Is it right for you to even ask this question? Of course, you have the right of free speech here, and expression.

It's enjoyable right?

 

[Nicrez]

Another question to post, should people who have limited experience try to derail more experienced posters?




Also, should people log on solely to dissent an idea without have adequate evidentiary support for such ideas?




Maybe another one could be: should people be allowed to post when they critize other's ideas, when they themselves can not take critizism?




I have disagreed with more than one poster here. I can't recall telling ANYONE to leave, as I have never really been attacked personally for my beliefs, because I never personally attacked anyone with my arguments. Still here.




Sometimes you have to learn to play nice in the sand box, or you get kicked out or give up and leave yourself. It's all about showinf respect to those around you, and if you lack that, no one will respect you. THAT'S when people are told if you don't like it, shove off...

 

[Greg]

So it's okay to make someone feel unwelcome if I don't like what they have to contribute?

By the way, I've been here for a little more than a year. I change my user name from time to time because every now and then I have a problem with a vendor and I don't want to make it obvious who I'm venting about.

 

[Nicrez]

You have the right to be an absolute jerk. I just simply say that those who have contributed to this forum consistently on a positive and helpful basis, may find more people on their side, should it ever come to a showdown of differences.




This is absolutely no different than a social circle in person. Being on-line just means you have a bit more freedom to say what you want without personal repercussions. That said, do exactly as you please, but remember you reap what you sow. Veteran poster or not, you dislike enough, and soon you may find you are disliked too.




By the way, there are veteran posters here who are probably very disliked. There are also posters on here who where once disliked and now are understood and even respected for their difference of opinion...without giving examples, the dynamics all depend on how much respect you give to anyone when disagreeing, and how much value you add to an argument, so that others can respect your reason for arguing in the first place.

 

[Greg]

Nicrez,

I actually thought your post expressing you're frustration with searcher was an excellent example of a diplomatic response to a difficult forum member. I'm not saying that we should never express frustration, but that maybe name-calling and "come back when you have a clue" aren't the best responses.

Just my opinion. Most of the PS experts are great even the people that told searcher to leave are usually pretty cool. I guess that's why it suspired me so much when they lost their cool.

 

[Mara]

Oh god PLEASE let the drama end!




Honestly, this is a moot discussion. No one is going to apologize for anything here. Why even continue it? Do you really expect (as searcher did) to give people here this giant epiphany and move them over to your way of thinking?




Give it up and talk about diamonds, you know...what this forum is actually about? THAT is what people prefer to discuss.




Everyone loses cool now and again, especially in light of what others noted, people coming in as trolls to cause problems. It has happened here in the last year with increasing frequency, so if people are jumpy....cut them some slack and MOVE ON.

 

[verticalhorizon]

This forum is about diamonds?

 

[Nicrez]

Mara has a point. This is really about diamonds, and if you want to keep impartial, that's easy enough. Stick to diamonds, stick to facts.




If you expect everyone to get along famously and be one big happy diamond family, that will most likely never happen. Some personalities clash more than others, and some people's style will always be more or less agreeable.




You shouldn't worry so much about the on-line dynamic of this forum, because as you see our trusty moderator, Leonid, allows a greater amount of expression than any other diamond forum. His vision is for a world-wide conversation, and it perfectly mirrors real-life. Unless you change each individual and society in general, you will never have a utopian diamond forum. Nothing in life is that cut and dry. You can not change a human being (or several) by starting a fire. It's much more useful to be one of the people in your vision and show that through your own actions than try to convince others to be the way you expect. In the end you can only expect to burn yourself in the process.

 

[Greg]

Fine mara, move on. Fire&Ice asked me to make this a public issue because a pm her about it after the host of another thread asked us to drop it was inappropriate.

This thread is in Diamond Hangout: "Hang about diamonds and non-diamond issues that are not exactly related to diamond education and consumer’ assistance." This is one of those non-diamond isuues.

 

[aljdewey]

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On 7/2/2004 2:05:37 PM Greg wrote:





I've seen some threads where PS regulars have asked or told other users to leave the forum if they don't like or disagree with what they've read. Is this cool? Or should the PS regulars with the problem refrain from responding to the user that bugs them and let others try to help or let the poor shmo who doesn't get it give up in his own time?
----------------

Greg, with all due respect, you're missing a key point here.

Searcher was not *told* to leave. He opted to leave himself, apparently because he grew bored or tired of the sh*tstorm he created. Fine, his choice.

In fact, I can't ever remember anyone here being *told* to leave for any reason. There has been much disagreement on PS over the 18 months or so I've been here, and it's to be expected when you have a bunch of different opinions and personalities. I don't know of anyone here who has a problem with healthy disagreement and spirited debate.

Having said that, it's not "cool" to come into a social discussion (virtual or otherwise) and start slamming others and presenting viewpoints in a way that is disrespectful/offensive to other participants. It's not cool to disparage the very vehicle that gives you a voice, or to gripe about how slanted or biased you think a place is and attack the very integrity of the medium.

There's a vast difference between *telling* someone to LEAVE and gently reminding someone who's so obviously disenchanted with the integrity of this medium that being here is VOLUNTARILY and they can choose not to be here if they don't find it of value.

Look, we all try to play nice here, and there are a lot of strong personalities here. People here have a lot of great information and experience, coupled with generosity to give of their time and help.

For those who want to debate and participate, great. Sorry if you feel it's cruel, but one of the harsh realities of life is: Those who bang on the hive run the risk of being stung.

 

[Mara]

to be honest, F&I probably told you to take it public so she wouldn't have to defend herself to you via PM! that's NEVER fun...

yes DH is for discussions, this could be one of them. but we are all saying the same thing to you. what else do you want there to be said? no apologies are forthcoming....so again what is the point of this except taking positive energies away from other discussions and furthering searcher's negative legacy?

 

[rodentman]

>>In fact, I can't ever remember anyone here being *told* to leave for any reason.




I can.

 

[Greg]

I've got no problems with you mara. I asked a question. You answered it. I have a better idea what kind of person you are and will be able to communicate with you that much better from here on out. you don't have to restate yourself any more. No pressure. Relax. Breathe in, breath out.... Better?

 

[strmrdr]

saying:
If you dont like it here leave is acceptable in my opinion.
Only one person has the power to say just leave and enforce it and thats leonid anyone else saying it is wrong.

 

[CaptAubrey]

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On 7/2/2004 3:09:50 PM Greg wrote:





I'm not saying that we should never express frustration, but that maybe name-calling and 'come back when you have a clue' aren't the best responses.

----------------

i see we keep coming back to that post of mine, which is fair since i did go off on searcher. i think the ps regulars will testify that i don't go off like that very often. but i won't apologize for getting frustrated with people who insist on offering authoritative opinions on things that are far outside their area of expertise. if i used harsher language than you would have liked, it was only because the gentler language of others wasn't getting the job done.

besides which, i would bet any amount of money that searcher hasn't really left, and is, in fact, lurking in this very thread to watch the dust settle. when things like this happen, the personae non gratae usually don't leave, they just quit posting and lurk. right, rm?

 

[fire&ice]

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On 7/2/2004 3:39:41 PM Mara wrote:


to be honest, F&I probably told you to take it public so she wouldn't have to defend herself to you via PM! that's NEVER fun...

yes DH is for discussions, this could be one of them. but we are all saying the same thing to you. what else do you want there to be said? no apologies are forthcoming....so again what is the point of this except taking positive energies away from other discussions and furthering searcher's negative legacy?
----------------

Yep, it's not pleasant to open up a private "slam". Especially, when I took no part in "asking" Searcher to leave. And, I took no part in being non-inclusive. PS regulars are such; and, you can find a list of those who have received pins. It's pretty cut & dry.

As Mara states, no one is going to apologize. That poster was not an innocent victim. I sent a wire transfer to Germany last week. Doesn't mean I know everything about International Banking. And, in my mature years, certainly wouldn't think I knew it all to slam people who have been in the industry for years. Not my nature. Instead, I like to learn from those people.

 

[fire&ice]

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On 7/2/2004 3:02:20 PM Greg wrote:

So it's okay to make someone feel unwelcome if I don't like what they have to contribute?

By the way, I've been here for a little more than a year. I change my user name from time to time because every now and then I have a problem with a vendor and I don't want to make it obvious who I'm venting about.----------------

I have a problem making someone feel welcome who feels the need to bash the very forum that I am a member of. Why in the world would I welcome someone who says "don't trust anyone w/ over 1k posts". And, that newbie has 22 posts under their belt.

BTW, I have been F&I for two years. I have no problem being who I am under any circumstance. I don't create new accounts. I don't have any other PS accounts.

Happy 4th everyone. I'll be using my new gas grill w/ some tasty new additions.

 

[Greg]

"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." -- Friedrich Nietzsche

Cool quote. Ironically appropriate. I know better than to ask anyone here to apologize. I've been around long enough to learn that. I'm not trying to ruffle your feathers though. I dig what you said in you're last post. It's cool. No harm no fowl.

And F&I, as I already said, sorry for PM-ing you. The thread's author said to let the issue drop, and you made it clear that you didn't want to. I thought I was respecting both of your wishes. I was wrong. Sorry.

 

[fire&ice]

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On 7/2/2004 5:36:58 PM Greg wrote:


And F&I, as I already said, sorry for PM-ing you. .----------------

No, you didn't. Nor did you apologize for the inappropriate comments i.e. "Where do you get off telling someone to leave?". I never said any such thing to searcher. Never mentioned it until after the poster decision was made.

Clearly, in your other personas you have a problem with me. I would suggest the same advice to you. Ignore me.

 

[Greg]

I thought I sent you another PM just saying sorry. Anyway, I've said it now. I don't know what you mean by "Clearly, in your other personas you have a problem with me." I've never had occasion to interact with you before today. I pretty much come here for the experts advice then go on my way. Your a nice lady I'm sure.

I changed my user name because after raving about a vender for several months I had some trouble with them. I didn't want everyone to know who did me wrong before they had a chance to make it right, but I still needed advice. I didn't change it to be sneaky or malicious or cause problems -- rather, I was trying to avoid problems.

 

[sumi]

I'm just curious what you're trying to accomplish with this thread. I'm not asking with any hint of sarcasm, I honestly want to know why you posted this.

Did you post it in the hopes that the regulars you speak of would change their ways? Did you just want everyone to know that you don't like it when regulars tell others to leave? Did you want an apology. Help me out, I'm totally confused.

If if someone tells you to leave, that doesn't mean you have to listen to them.

 

[Greg]

Hi Sumi,

Good question. Pricescope is such a great forum. It's one of the best places to get expert advice on specific questions about diamonds.

But it turns mean from time to time when opinions conflict. Someone else brought this up on another thread, and the conversation gained a bit of steam until the author of that thread asked everyone to drop it. F&I didn't want to, and I thought warranted a bit more discussion, so I started this thread.

I guess I was hoping that some of the offending regulars would say to themselves "Holy crap, I was a little harsh, I'll have to try to be more constructive in the future." But I guess that was a bit naive. More than a bit. Of course I wasn't looking for an apology or anything dramatic (what did anyone ever do to me), just wanted to raise a little awareness.

 

[sumi]

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On 7/2/2004 9:57:04 PM Greg wrote:

Hi Sumi,


Good question. Pricescope is such a great forum. It's one of the best places to get expert advice on specific questions about diamonds.


But it turns mean from time to time when opinions conflict. Someone else brought this up on another thread, and the conversation gained a bit of steam until the author of that thread asked everyone to drop it. F&I didn't want to, and I thought warranted a bit more discussion, so I started this thread.


I guess I was hoping that some of the offending regulars would say to themselves 'Holy crap, I was a little harsh, I'll have to try to be more constructive in the future.' But I guess that was a bit naive. More than a bit. Of course I wasn't looking for an apology or anything dramatic (what did anyone ever do to me), just wanted to raise a little awareness.----------------

You know what, if you just wanted to raise everyone's awareness about other people's feelings, then I think that's cool. I can't say that I agree with the way you went about doing that, but the core of your message seems good. It never hurts to be mindful of others. I guess we can all use a little reminder once in a while. But, you're never going to find group hugs and kisses-all-around here. Yuck! Thank god for that!

People here at PS are really welcoming to new posters. However, there are some posters here who are just looking to stir the pot and who are just here to cause trouble. I tend to feel like those poster deserve whatever comes their way.

 

[just-ice]

" I guess I was hoping that some of the offending regulars would say to themselves "Holy crap, I was a little harsh, I'll have to try to be more constructive in the future." But I guess that was a bit naive. More than a bit. Of course I wasn't looking for an apology or anything dramatic (what did anyone ever do to me), just wanted to raise a little awareness"

________
This is basically riding a dead horse here...however,the only time I have seen 'the offending regulars' be a 'little harsh' is when the poster agitated with a 'little harsh' criticism of the forum.I have yet to see that happen unless it is provoked FIRST. Maybe you should raise the awareness of the people who post??

 

[aljdewey]

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On 7/2/2004 3:44:51 PM rodentman wrote:







>>In fact, I can't ever remember anyone here being *told* to leave for any reason.




I can.

----------------

Not on a public forum board.

Oh, and OF COURSE, there wasn't *any* inflammatory or downright rude (and forum-violating) behavior that would have prompted that, was there?

Nah.

 

[aljdewey]

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On 7/3/2004 2:09:42 AM just-ice wrote:




...however,the only time I have seen 'the offending regulars' be a 'little harsh' is when the poster agitated with a 'little harsh' criticism of the forum.I have yet to see that happen unless it is provoked FIRST. Maybe you should raise the awareness of the people who post??
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This was SO well-put by Just-Ice that I have nothing to add. J-I hit the nail squarely on the head. Great post.