Should you get cert for set sapphire?

[Green with Envy]

A reputable jeweler has a blue sapphire that is set and it does not have any certification, although the store says it is heat treated and it is priced accordingly. is there any reason why you should insist on any certification if it means taking stone out of ring? or no matter if you like the color, setting, and price- no need for any specific cert?

 

[marymm]

A reputable jeweler has a blue sapphire that is set and it does not have any certification, although the store says it is heat treated and it is priced accordingly. is there any reason why you should insist on any certification if it means taking stone out of ring? or no matter if you like the color, setting, and price- no need for any specific cert?

If you want to know with any certainty whether the sapphire is treated or not, and if it is treated, exactly what kind of treatment, then you will need an AGL or GIA certificate - I know GIA will accept mounted sapphires so it wouldn't necessarily have to be removed from the setting.

Me personally, for the kind of money I'd spend on a sapphire piece of jewelry, I'd want the AGL or GIA cert. But that's me.

If you don't need confirmation as to level/type of treatment, and you're happy with the piece, go ahead and buy it as is.

However, consider: if you should find out later that the sapphire is BE diffused, not just heated, would that bum you out? A BE sapphire is much less expensive than a heated sapphire - how you can be sure you are paying the appropriate price when you don't really know the facts about the sapphire?

 

[minousbijoux]

A reputable jeweler has a blue sapphire that is set and it does not have any certification, although the store says it is heat treated and it is priced accordingly. is there any reason why you should insist on any certification if it means taking stone out of ring? or no matter if you like the color, setting, and price- no need for any specific cert?

If you want to know with any certainty whether the sapphire is treated or not, and if it is treated, exactly what kind of treatment, then you will need an AGL or GIA certificate - I know GIA will accept mounted sapphires so it wouldn't necessarily have to be removed from the setting.

Me personally, for the kind of money I'd spend on a sapphire piece of jewelry, I'd want the AGL or GIA cert. But that's me.

If you don't need confirmation as to level/type of treatment, and you're happy with the piece, go ahead and buy it as is.

However, consider: if you should find out later that the sapphire is BE diffused, not just heated, would that bum you out? A BE sapphire is much less expensive than a heated sapphire - how you can be sure you are paying the appropriate price when you don't really know the facts about the sapphire?

Exactly this.

AGL will also accept mounted stones - there is just an added premium for the service.

 

[Green with Envy]

Any idea what it might run for cost to cert a mounted stone at GIA or AGl? Would this be a reasonable request of the dealer, or would we first have to commit to buying the ring if indeed it is only heated, and be allowed to return the stone for full refund if any further enhancements were found?

The ring is not local to us, but the store offers a 7 day inspection period. I know the store does sell many stones with certs, just this one came in a few weeks ago and for whatever reason they put it up for sale without any.

i love the soft velvety blue of the stone and I prefer a darker royal blue, but some might find it too sleepy.

 

[eastjavaman]

Absolutely love that velvetiness, but too sleepy of course. I think the Blue is just on the money.


http://www.gia.edu/cs/Satellite?blobcol=gfile&blobheader=application%2Fpdf&blobheadername1=Content-Disposition&blobheadername2=MDT-Type&blobheadername3=Content-Type&blobheadervalue1=attachment%3B+filename%3DGIA_SapphireServices_062014_USD.pdf&blobheadervalue2=abinary%3B+charset%3DUTF-8&blobheadervalue3=application%2Fpdf&blobkey=id&blobtable=GIA_DocumentFile&blobwhere=1355966678852&ssbinary=true

 

[LoversKites]

Any idea what it might run for cost to cert a mounted stone at GIA or AGl? Would this be a reasonable request of the dealer, or would we first have to commit to buying the ring if indeed it is only heated, and be allowed to return the stone for full refund if any further enhancements were found?

The ring is not local to us, but the store offers a 7 day inspection period. I know the store does sell many stones with certs, just this one came in a few weeks ago and for whatever reason they put it up for sale without any.

i love the soft velvety blue of the stone and I prefer a darker royal blue, but some might find it too sleepy.

It is completely reasonable and necessary to ask for a lab report to prove what they advertise it to be, especially for such a commonly treated stone. Go with AGL for coloured stones. You'll have to ask them if they'll take it back if it came back as anything other than traditional heat, and whether you must commit to buy beforehand; there are different policies out there.

As for prices:
http://aglgemlab.com/pricelist/
You can send it mounted for an extra fee without taking the sapphire out. The prestige report gives more detailed info and for an extra fee they'll give you origin too, if that matters to you -- certain localities carry premiums such as Kashmir.

I think it looks great. I bet it's a killer outdoors...

 

[pregcurious]

I would absolutely send it to AGL. As mentioned before, both AGL and GIA take mounted stones. It's only with white diamonds that GIA wants the stone to be unmounted.

I have bought a jadeite before and requested that the owner send it for a report, and that my purchase would be contingent on the results of the report. I paid for the report if it was untreated as claimed. The vendor paid for the report if it was treated in any way. This is not an unusual request. In my case, it took over 30 days.

Sometimes the vendor wants you to send in the stone, but it is reasonable to ask the vendor to pay for the report if the stone does not come back as claimed, and to offer a full refund.

I would do this for all diamonds, rubies, and sapphires over $500. Rubies and sapphires are commonly treated. For rubies, unless it comes with a report, I assume it is glass-filled. As for sapphire, I assume it is heated and possibly beryllium-diffused. For diamonds, their value depends highly on how they are graded. I would also do it for spinels over $500 as they are now treating them. These are just my preferences. (I used to only send in stones over $1000, but the treatments have gotten much more common.)

GIA and AGL do not give certifications, but reports, which are basically their best opinion on how a stone is treated.

 

[chrono]

Given the size of the sapphire, my guess is that this is not an inexpensive ring, therefore it is worth that peace of mind that I paid a fair price for a heat only (no diffusion, no oiling or other clarity enhancement) stone. In this particular case, AGL would my my top choice. I would have the vendor send the ring in and that my purchase be contingent on the results of the report confirming the stats, with me paying for the cost of the lab report. The sale will fall through if the report doesn't come back as stated and the vendor would pay for the report in that case.

 

[Green with Envy]

If it is heated and I highly highly doubt it is from Kashmir- does it make any sense at all to pay for origin? The dealer will send it to agl per my request if I want to purchase and sale will be contingent on results.

I might start seperate thread if I get it shipped to be for inspection- but the sleepiness doesn't bother me in these photos because the velvet color is so dreamy to me. The dealer says it does not go dark and the pics he sent are the darkest it ever looks.

It is very well priced, but it may end up being too deep to be comfortable wearing. Im waiting for exact measurements. I don't want a stone that sits ridiculously high, but looking for large. I figure to get this color with more sparkle is needle in haystack and big money.

 

[chrono]

Origin is up to you. I'm not fussed about origin but I understand it matters to some people. How is the colour of the sapphire under incandescent, halogen and the dreaded fluorescent lights? What light condition will you be wearing it under the most?

 

[T L]

FYI: BTW, GIA, AGL and other labs don't certify anything. They issue reports, which are opinions, not certificates. The trade always likes to call these reports, "certificates," because it sounds official, but they're reports. I just wanted to note that. ETA: I see Pregcurious already mentioned that.

Any high priced piece of corundum should have a reputable lab report that doesn't ONLY test for heat, but for other types of treatment as well. Not all labs are equipped to test for all kinds of treatment. Corundum is one of the most highly treated gems, and some treatments can affect the value of a stone by more than half of what you paid. One must also be cautious about synthetics as well.

 

[Green with Envy]

Would the agl report test for all other enhancements in addition to heating, right? I think the dealer will send it pretty much to anywhere I want and they have no problem guaranteeing the stone.

I will be wearing it mostly during the day and in natural light. Not in office lighting and not really often at night... I go to bed early! The picture taken was inside, but jewelry store lighting so I assume that makes if look better. I can have it for a week to wear and examine in every lighting I can find. I did not want a preset stone, but I like the dimensions and setting. The sides are vs2 f color ovals around .70 ct each and I have been told they r well cut without obvious bow ties, but I have to see.

I planned on setting loose stone in similar way with cushion or round sides so this setting works for me.

 

[Green with Envy]

Trying to get some perspective- stone is approx 9.2x 12.2. X 7.00. If it is set as low as possible- is that still super deep?

 

[chrono]

It isn't deep at all; it is close to the 65% depth mark which is fine. Is it just under the 7 carat mark?

 

[Green with Envy]

The stone is advertised as 7.9 ct. The dealer used a manual presidium graded to remeasure stone and reported 9.2 x 12.2 x.7.00. I have been seeing stones with similar measurements closer to 6+ ct so I was wondering where extra weight to get 7.9ct.

 

[chrono]

This is why I prefer a loose stone; it is easier to use electronic calipers to get the LxWxD measurements and weigh the sapphire. Now that I think about it, I have no idea how he came up with the depth measurement given that it is set. Based on the measurements and S.G, the stone came up at 6.9 ct for me. If it is 7.9 ct with the same LxW measurement, then the depth will be more than the stated 7 mm unless the girdle is ridiculously thick.

 

[Green with Envy]

Would a side profile pic of the ring help to examine? if it is being sold without a cert as 7.9ct- if it came back with a cert saying different weight... more like 6.9ct- this would for sure make it returnable, right? I don't really care about measurements as long as it looks nice on my finger... but I want to know what I am getting!

 

[chrono]

A profile view might help. I would not be pleased to purchase a 7.9 ct stone that is actually a 6.9 ct as those magic carat weight markers greatly affect pricing. Again, whether it is returnable depends on the vendor although one would think that any reputable vendor would agree that such a great difference in carat weight is disturbing.

 

[pregcurious]

A profile view might help. I would not be pleased to purchase a 7.9 ct stone that is actually a 6.9 ct as those magic carat weight markers greatly affect pricing. Again, whether it is returnable depends on the vendor although one would think that any reputable vendor would agree that such a great difference in carat weight is disturbing.

I agree.

As for origin, if the vendor is stating it is Kashmir, and you are paying for Kashmir origin, I would do the origin report. Otherwise, I would not do it. That is a personal choice. Keep in mind that Kashmir origin would greatly increase the value of the sapphire that size, versus say Madagascar origin.

 

[minousbijoux]

One random thought: make sure the jeweler provides both the total carat weight for the ring, and the weight of the sapphire alone. Part of me wonders if by saying 7.9 cts he was estimating the total carat weight. In fact, I would ask for dimensions of side diamonds as well (if possible) to make sure that his estimate of their weight is correct as well, as taken as a whole these things could be accounting for the discrepancy.

 

[Green with Envy]

It is advertised as 7.99 sapphire with two oval side stones 1.44 tcw

 

[chrono]

Girdle looks fine. Looks to have a high crown; my guess is that his depth estimate might be off.

 

[T L]

Would the agl report test for all other enhancements in addition to heating, right? I think the dealer will send it pretty much to anywhere I want and they have no problem guaranteeing the stone.

I will be wearing it mostly during the day and in natural light. Not in office lighting and not really often at night... I go to bed early! The picture taken was inside, but jewelry store lighting so I assume that makes if look better. I can have it for a week to wear and examine in every lighting I can find. I did not want a preset stone, but I like the dimensions and setting. The sides are vs2 f color ovals around .70 ct each and I have been told they r well cut without obvious bow ties, but I have to see.

I planned on setting loose stone in similar way with cushion or round sides so this setting works for me.

They can diagnostically check, and if they can't find any other enhancement, but are uncertain, then they have to send it to the mass spectrometer (LA-ICP-MS), which may require removal from the piece (you have to ask them). That is also an extra charge and something you need to request to have done.

If it has some silk though or needles or certain types of inclusions, they may be able to diagnostically test for additional enhancement. If the stone comes back as unheated, then no further testing is necessary. You run into all the issues when the sapphire is determined to be heated. It cost me an extra $100 for them to send my 2.4 carat loose sapphire to the LA-ICP-MS machine for additional testing. I had another sapphire that they were able to determined as heated only without the LA-ICP-MS and only through diagnostic testing.

Hope that helps.

 

[chrono]

Would the agl report test for all other enhancements in addition to heating, right? I think the dealer will send it pretty much to anywhere I want and they have no problem guaranteeing the stone.

I will be wearing it mostly during the day and in natural light. Not in office lighting and not really often at night... I go to bed early! The picture taken was inside, but jewelry store lighting so I assume that makes if look better. I can have it for a week to wear and examine in every lighting I can find. I did not want a preset stone, but I like the dimensions and setting. The sides are vs2 f color ovals around .70 ct each and I have been told they r well cut without obvious bow ties, but I have to see.

I planned on setting loose stone in similar way with cushion or round sides so this setting works for me.

They can diagnostically check, and if they can't find any other enhancement, but are uncertain, then they have to send it to the mass spectrometer (LA-ICP-MS), which may require removal from the piece (you have to ask them). That is also an extra charge and something you need to request to have done.

If it has some silk though or needles or certain types of inclusions, they may be able to diagnostically test for additional enhancement. If the stone comes back as unheated, then no further testing is necessary. You run into all the issues when the sapphire is determined to be heated. It cost me an extra $100 for them to send my 2.4 carat loose sapphire to the LA-ICP-MS machine for additional testing. I had another sapphire that they were able to determined as heated only without the LA-ICP-MS and only through diagnostic testing.

Hope that helps.

To add to TL's post, yes, they will also check for clarity enhancement as well.

 

[Green with Envy]

Ok-- so just to be sure what I should request since they are selling me the stone as heated and we are clear it is NOT an unheated stone.

I should ask for AGL report without origin. They are not making any claims of kashmir origin so I don't care where it is from, as long as it is not fake or something!

It will need to be sized if I keep it and I assume they take stone out of mounting to do this? Then they could send loose stone. Either way I will offer to pay for cert if it comes back as they claim with heat only. Do I need to specifically request further testing if needed?

The jeweler set the stone in mounting that is stamped with their name so I figure they weighed it before setting and thus the 7.99 is accurate. I can see it has high crown.

 

[T L]

Ok-- so just to be sure what I should request since they are selling me the stone as heated and we are clear it is NOT an unheated stone.

I should ask for AGL report without origin. They are not making any claims of kashmir origin so I don't care where it is from, as long as it is not fake or something!

It will need to be sized if I keep it and I assume they take stone out of mounting to do this? Then they could send loose stone. Either way I will offer to pay for cert if it comes back as they claim with heat only. Do I need to specifically request further testing if needed?

The jeweler set the stone in mounting that is stamped with their name so I figure they weighed it before setting and thus the 7.99 is accurate. I can see it has high crown.

You need to discuss this with them on the phone (they're very helpful and friendly). I would ask them to test with an LA-ICP-MS if they need to do so, and ask what the additional cost would be. You also need to ask them if you can omit origin for a lower priced report. I have never done that, so I'm not sure. My reports were simply gem briefs, but I don't know if you'll be getting a prestige report and if so, there's an origin level report, and another with the whole works on complete scientific analysis of color, quality, clarity, etc. . . The gem brief is the most economical report by far, but it may not have all the information you require, especially if you're making an expensive purchase.

http://aglgemlab.com/the-prestige-report/

 

[chrono]

I don't think the stone is removed when resizing.

 

[Green with Envy]

I looked at the price list that loverskites posted and was just going to request the prestige gemstone report for standard ID and enhancement for $160 USD mounted stone. Not bother with origin report that is more expensive, or the grading report with origin which is the most expensive. Make sense? I will discuss this on phone with dealer, but I also want to make my request via email so they see what I want in writing and thus confirm they will do it.