Signature cut studs vs GIA xxx

[0515vision]

Hello community! New to PS and new to diamonds.
I'm considering a pair of Brian Gavin signature cut studs bc the price seems to great compared to other online "signature" cut studs. Of course, a local jeweler told me she could get GIA xxx natural studs at a significantly lower price than the BG Signature studs.

Can someone tell me if I will be able to see the difference between signature cut studs and run of the mill GIA xxx studs in daylight and office light with the naked eye? I'm looking at a modest size of 0.33-0.40 (bc I don't want them to droop and I already have a pair of 1.20 tcw dangles).

Are signature/branded cut studs worth it? I love the idea of having great brilliance, sparkle and fire to my diamonds. But I want to make sure I'm not getting swept up in the hype of a signature cut. I'm not around ppl with diamonds, so I have very little real world experience.

Also, the BG settings seem a little pricey. If I buy from BG, should I save some money and get them set locally? Should I be able to see the brand engraving with a 10x loupe in order to make sure my stones aren't switched? Thanks in advance!

 

[vintageinjune]

Can someone tell me if I will be able to see the difference between signature cut studs and run of the mill GIA xxx studs in daylight and office light with the naked eye?

Hello, and welcome!

Compared to "run of the mill GIA XXX diamonds", the answer is yes, you will be able to see a difference in sparkle when compared to a signature cut.

GIA XXX is a very, very wide range unfortunately, and does not evaluate light return.

As for saving money with the settings - kinda depends. I spent a boatload on having custom settings made for my stud earrings, but if you just want a standard 4 prong basket or 3 prong martini, I don't see any reason not to save the moolah and have them set locally if you have a trusted jeweler. Just make sure you know the cost of the settings AND the setting fee before calculating the cost savings. The settings might only cost you $300, but if the setting fees are $100 per stone, then that's $500 there (not sure how much the settings are through BG to be honest).

 

[Kim N]

Have you looked at Whiteflash settings?

Diamond Earrings: Studs, Drops, Halos and Hoops | Whiteflash

Diamond earring styles vary from classic Diamond Studs to Drops, Hoops and Halos. We have a large selection of Designer Diamond Earrings available to buy online here.

www.whiteflash.com

They have diamonds that are just as beautiful as BGD's and often a larger inventory.

Round Cut Loose Diamonds for Sale | Buy Loose Diamonds

Whiteflash have the highest quality round cut loose diamonds available, in stock and ready to ship immediately. Order your dream diamond and setting today.

www.whiteflash.com

 

[0515vision]

Thx @vintageinjune and @Kim N!

@vintageinjune: Didn't consider setting fee + settings!

@Kim N: I'll see if Whiteflash has Signature/branded cuts. I like seeing the fire and brilliance and sparkle videos on the BG site. I don't trust that my own eyes can see all those nuances yet. Sometimes those 360 videos are tough to interpret.

Love this community!

 

[sledge]

@0515vision many moons ago Brian Gavin was part of WF and then he went out in his own. Both are superb vendors and both have “signature” cuts. Probably the more appropriate term is super ideal hearts & arrow (H&A) diamonds.

WF has 3 lines you would want to consider. A Cut Above (ACA) is their signature H&A that most speak and rave about. They also have a premium select which is super ideals with GIA certification. Lastly they have an expert select which is basically “near misses” to the very stringent ACA requirements. All 3 lines come with their no hassle upgrade policy that only requires you spend an equal or greater amount than the initial purchase. This allows a lot of flexibility. Also they normally have deep stock so making trades is a little easier than some vendors.

BGD also has an upgrade program but requires you upgrade 2 of the 3 C’s in the process: color, clarity or carat. This can be problematic if you start with higher grades from the get go.

I also like Victor Canera H&A especially if you are doing a ring setting as you get a discount and priority status. Their ring settings have a great reputation for being hand forged.

And I couldn’t forget about Wink and Continental Diamonds. I believe their H&A line is called Legacy. While fairly new, Wink had another company called High Performance Diamonds (HPD) that sold Crafted by Infinity (CBI) diamonds that many heavily raved about. Plus Wink has a cool and fun personality and they too offer good upgrade programs. They are in the process of filling stock so supply may need to be checked via a phone call.

Plenty of quality super ideal vendors that makes the buying process easy and ensures you get a superb top shelf stone. All with advanced images to prove their performance.

There are some triple X stones that are very nice but unfortunately they are the minority. As already mentioned GIA made the excellent category so wide they let in a lot of trash and most consumers and jewelers have no idea that all triple X’s don’t ensure amazing cut quality.

A CUT ABOVE® Diamonds Specifications and Qualifications

Uncover the diamond specifications and qualifications that make up the Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® diamonds. The most carefully crafted diamonds in the world.

www.whiteflash.com

Premium Select Diamonds - Whiteflash.com

The Premium Select diamond category at Whiteflash consists of top performing GIA Triple Ex Hearts and Arrows diamonds.

www.whiteflash.com

Expert Selection Diamonds - Whiteflash.com

Expert Selection diamonds from Whiteflash consist of certified AGS Ideals with hearts and arrows precision that nearly missed A CUT ABOVE® Super Ideal.

www.whiteflash.com

Lifetime Upgrade Guarantee | Whiteflash

A great upgrade policy is a big deal when buying a diamond. Whiteflash has the best benefits in the business including a 100% Lifetime Upgrade Guarantee.

www.whiteflash.com

Loose Diamonds Certified by AGS & GIA | Victor Canera

Discover the most finely crafted natural diamonds with our signature super ideal hearts and arrows, vintage cushion and modern OEC and other diamonds.

www.victorcanera.com

Our Catalog - Brand

www.continentaldiamond.com

 

[sledge]

One potential set of candidates. $1,675 wire. 0.703tcw.

Diamond pair details | Complete characteristics for chosen diamond pair

The most carefully chosen diamond pair. Every diamond is unique, but we choose the most similar diamond pair

www.whiteflash.com

 

[0515vision]

@sledge thanks for all of that! Appreciate all the links! Reassuring to know that I'm not simply getting caught up in the hype - that I will indeed be able to see the difference in cut with my own two eyeballs.

 

[0515vision]

BG's quadex caught my eye bc of the interesting corners. Anyone have experience with those stones - performance and overall look? Saw some BG quadexes with amazing fire.

I know square stones can spin to off angles, I was considering having the prongs set NSEW to give a closer approximation of a round/hexagonal shape. Thoughts?

Or maybe just stick with the trusted round brilliant?
Thx again to all!

 

[DejaWiz]

BG's quadex caught my eye bc of the interesting corners. Anyone have experience with those stones - performance and overall look? Saw some BG quadexes with amazing fire.

I know square stones can spin to off angles, I was considering having the prongs set NSEW to give a closer approximation of a round/hexagonal shape. Thoughts?

Or maybe just stick with the trusted round brilliant?
Thx again to all!

I think a pair of BG Quadex diamonds as earrings would be very unique and have outstanding optical performance - BG's cut criteria is patented, and his criteria is extremely strict to ensure maximum light return and performance.

Whiteflash: they're ISO 9001 certified, so their quality assurance processes are not only documented as written procedures, but also audited.

 

[vintageinjune]

BG's quadex caught my eye bc of the interesting corners. Anyone have experience with those stones - performance and overall look? Saw some BG quadexes with amazing fire.

I know square stones can spin to off angles, I was considering having the prongs set NSEW to give a closer approximation of a round/hexagonal shape. Thoughts?

Or maybe just stick with the trusted round brilliant?
Thx again to all!

Take this with a grain of salt, as it is a personal opinion, but I would not want to purchase Quadex diamonds and then try to make them look round. They are unique, and ensuring the shape is on display as much as possible would sort of be the point to owing such a special diamond cut.

On that thought, setting the prongs NSEW I think would actually accentuate the shape, and would look lovely! You could put them on "straight", or "kite set" (like the sapphire in my avatar is).

I'd vote for the Quadex over the round brilliants, unless the idea of them 'turning' through the day drives you bonkers, then stick with the rounds. I used to think my 3 prong settings turning would bother me when I saw the prongs not lined up evenly on both sides (with one of the prongs in the 6 o'clock position), but turns out, it doesn't.

 

[0515vision]

I think a pair of BG Quadex diamonds as earrings would be very unique and have outstanding optical performance - BG's cut criteria is patented, and his criteria is extremely strict to ensure maximum light return and performance.

Whiteflash: they're ISO 9001 certified, so their quality assurance processes are not only documented as written procedures, but also audited.

@DejaWiz You wrote magical words: “very unique and outstanding optical performance.” I’m feeling more confident about ignoring my local jeweler and following my quadex curiosity.

 

[0515vision]

Take this with a grain of salt, as it is a personal opinion, but I would not want to purchase Quadex diamonds and then try to make them look round. They are unique, and ensuring the shape is on display as much as possible would sort of be the point to owing such a special diamond cut.

On that thought, setting the prongs NSEW I think would actually accentuate the shape, and would look lovely! You could put them on "straight", or "kite set" (like the sapphire in my avatar is).

I'd vote for the Quadex over the round brilliants, unless the idea of them 'turning' through the day drives you bonkers, then stick with the rounds. I used to think my 3 prong settings turning would bother me when I saw the prongs not lined up evenly on both sides (with one of the prongs in the 6 o'clock position), but turns out, it doesn't.

@vintageinjune I love that you think setting the prongs NSEW would accentuate the shape. Those corners call to me! And I do wonder if the “turning” won’t bother me over time. I bought a pair of tiny square CZ studs yesterday to test whether the turning would be a factor. Thx for your thoughts!

 

[DejaWiz]

@DejaWiz You wrote magical words: “very unique and outstanding optical performance.” I’m feeling more confident about ignoring my local jeweler and following my quadex curiosity.

You can definitely at least give them a whirl and see if you live them...if not, BG has great return and exchange policies so you'll be taken care of, either way.

 

[0515vision]

You can definitely at least give them a whirl and see if you live them...if not, BG has great return and exchange policies so you'll be taken care of, either way.

Yes, they are wonderful. I already bought a 2.15 lab cushion from them a few weeks ago at an incredible price. I had help choosing the stone from Paul Gian of beyond4cs.com (didn’t know about PS yet). BGD staff were so helpful and gracious, unlike some of my local LA Diamond District jewelers.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I wouldn't want square stones for studs. That would drive me nuts trying to keep them in the same position. I think rounds will have longevity as they are classic and timeless. I have bought all my studs from Whiteflash, and yes, they are top cut quality, hearts and arrows stones. Whiteflash has the best selection of any H&A vendor, and it is easy to upgrade there because you can usually find good matches. Of course, stock is lower than usual with many vendors due to various world events.

 

[0515vision]

Thx @diamondseeker2006!
Here's a general question for ppl with H&A studs. When you're out and see other ppl's studs, can you tell if they're non-H&A cut vs just being dirty?

That is, from far away, what do you notice about other ppl's studs? The reflections? The color? What differences do you see once they are set and in an earlobe? Thanks!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Thx @diamondseeker2006!
Here's a general question for ppl with H&A studs. When you're out and see other ppl's studs, can you tell if they're non-H&A cut vs just being dirty?

That is, from far away, what do you notice about other ppl's studs? The reflections? The color? What differences do you see once they are set and in an earlobe? Thanks!

I do notice other people's studs! It's interesting because I think studs are very beautiful in all sizes, and especially if they are clean! I think dirty studs that are worn 24/7 without frequent cleaning will never have the light return of clean, well cut studs! I think I mainly notice the white sparkle! I do think it is hard to discern color in studs from a distance. Mine are H color and that's a happy medium color for me that appears white on the ear.

Where I live, I almost never see large diamond studs, so it is very hard to tell about the cut on small stones. It does matter to me to have well cut stones, though, because mentally I just like high quality diamonds and jewelry in general. There were many years that I wore very generic, mediocre quality studs and other jewelry pieces, and I seriously doubt most people are tuned in enough to notice the difference. It has taken some time to replace it all with higher quality pieces, but I still haven't done a new tennis bracelet yet. I think part of my thought process is that I want to hand jewelry down to my girls and granddaughters, and I want it to be heirloom-worthy. My studs could easily be engagement ring diamonds for my granddaughters if they wanted to use them for that purpose.

Good luck with your search and come back and show us what you chose!

 

[0515vision]

Thx @diamondseeker2006! You helped me realize that the final specs are largely going to be a combination of personal decisions on my part. They will be meaningful to me even if they aren’t D FL 6tcw. I’m making a living gesture to myself, and that’s the most important component.

I had Jamie send me a video of my potential pair, but I wasn’t crazy about the match. So I’ll reach out again tomorrow and see if my second choice pair looks right in daylight. Will def post once I’ve decided and received.

Thx to all for the info and support!

 

[sledge]

Thx @diamondseeker2006!
Here's a general question for ppl with H&A studs. When you're out and see other ppl's studs, can you tell if they're non-H&A cut vs just being dirty?

I found this question interesting because you mentioned the diamond being dirty. To be clear, you can have ideal proportions with perfect H&A symmetry and dirt will impede light return making it look poorly cut.

Just my 2 cents but it’s an injustice to spend your time, money and effort to buy a superb diamond to never (or infrequently) clean it. It happens often, never with bad intent but nonetheless it’s disheartening.

Alas, there are many factors that affect our real life view of a diamond. Lighting is critical. Angle is equally important and stones on the ear are subjected to a different angle than on the hand. Viewing distance is also critical. Often a hand is grabbed and pulled close to the eyeballs when inspecting an e-ring. It’s a little awkward for someone to invade your space to gleam at earrings.

Like anything in life, we all have varying attention to detail. What one may consider easy or difficult to assess may not be shared by another. Unless you encounter extreme cases of cut quality you likely won’t notice a black & white scenario of difference. However, you may notice subtle differences instead and will always have the knowledge and satisfaction of knowing your stones are cut for maximum beauty regardless of others.

 

[sledge]

Here is a video of Garry showing how to use his idealscope. What I find of particular interest is it puts real world effect into play when a very poorly cut stone is placed in an area with less light. Watch that stone shrink! It also provides some (indirect) understanding why jewelers lighting is so bright and overpowering.

Again real world conditions matter. Starve a poor cut diamond of light and it shrinks. Whereas ideal cut maximizes light return and can in effect look “bigger” because they exhibit edge to edge light return. Obviously when clean, lol.

 

[0515vision]

Here is a video of Garry showing how to use his idealscope. What I find of particular interest is it puts real world effect into play when a very poorly cut stone is placed in an area with less light. Watch that stone shrink! It also provides some (indirect) understanding why jewelers lighting is so bright and overpowering.

Again real world conditions matter. Starve a poor cut diamond of light and it shrinks. Whereas ideal cut maximizes light return and can in effect look “bigger” because they exhibit edge to edge light return. Obviously when clean, lol.

@sledge That video was so helpful! I couldn't believe how dark the badly cut stone looked in the low light. I'm feeling more and more confident about purchasing H&A level studs for myself. Sure, I could save a bunch of money with generic GIAxxx studs, but it seems like a waste to spend money in the long run. Thanks again!

 

[sledge]

@sledge That video was so helpful! I couldn't believe how dark the badly cut stone looked in the low light. I'm feeling more and more confident about purchasing H&A level studs for myself. Sure, I could save a bunch of money with generic GIAxxx studs, but it seems like a waste to spend money in the long run. Thanks again!

You’re welcome. And I want to be extra clear so you are not mislead. Not every single GIA stone will behave like in that video. There are many variables at play that can lead to a really nice, mediocre or not so nice cut GIA XXX stone. As I mentioned earlier there ARE nice GIA stones and some that you would have a hard time discerning.

It all boils down to your effort level when you search GIA stones. Simply stopping the search at XXX certification does not guarantee the best cut. You need to dive deeper, narrow your considerations down to stones that meet tighter proportions. Then analyze any pictures or videos available and also request advanced images (ASET, idealscope, H&A). Remember that while every (round) stone may not meet H&A strict criteria they all generally form a set of hearts and arrows. The hearts are particularly telling as irregularities will tell you a lot about cut precision and the ASET and idealscope both confirm light return.

There are a few ways to do this. Use a vendor that buys GIA stones and does advanced images for you. Use proportions and basic pics/videos as your primary method and buy from just about anyone. Then buy your own scopes, have the stones shipped loose and further analyze at home. You may need to return and start over but as long as the vendor has a flexible return policy it’s not too bad. Shop locally but take your scopes with you. This can be difficult because many times the jeweler is less neutral and more pushy to make a sale. Obviously the last method is buy H&A from a reputable vendor as it gets you all the info upfront to make an informed decision without some of the other hassles.

Whatever you decide is right for you, we are happy to help you navigate the seas if you let us.

 

[0515vision]

@sledge That advice about the entire process is incredible helpful! I don't do well with jewelers in person bc I tend to be empathetically swayed into purchasing from them. Or I start to feel guilty and stiffen up and become standoffish and guarded. Initially I felt bad about buying loose stones and then returning them, but that seems to be an accepted part of the process, so I won't worry too much about that from here on out.

I've decided firmly that I want a quadex shape or something equivalent, so I'll start a new thread. I'll also include ASET images and hope to be educated bc I don't really know what to look for yet. They all look pretty, colorful and basically symmetric. I love the clean edges without the sharp right angles coupled with the brilliance and sparkle which you don't see in step cuts.

Now that I've been here a few days, I've seen how much you've assisted other ppl's purchases. Such an wonderful way of helping each other! xoxo