So hard...

[vivosogno]

My boyfriend and I have been together for almost 6 years. We both just turned 24. Its so frustrating because anytime I talk about getting married or engaged all he says is "not now." And I ask him why and he says we need to wait until we are on our own. I don''t really know what that means since we have an apartment together. And then he says he just doesn''t want to do it now for his "sanity." He says that we will get married but I feel like I have been waiting for so long and it hurts my feelings when he says things like that.

Then yesterday I asked him if he would be my power of attorney (since we are not married if something happened to me he wouldnt be able to make any decisions) and he said he would be it. And then I said, well, do you want me to be yours. And he said "no." It just hurt me because I feel like thats a big kick in the stomach. He would rather have his parents make medical decision that someone he supposedly wants to marry. So I said, you know if something happened to you that I wouldnt be able to have any say in it and he said "yeah."

Does any one else have these feelings and emotions. Sometimes I feel like I am overreacting and just need to be patient.

 

[SoonIHope]

Oh, that is awful vivo, I''m so sorry!! I would definitely have been hurt by something like that. I feel like a big issue a lot of guys around our age (I''m 24, my fiance is 25) have a fear of accepting adult responsibility and officially moving out of the post-college haze because that means they''re "old." It used to drive me crazy when my then-boyfriend would say things about how he wasn''t ready, and wanted us to be settled and independent etc before we got engaged - even though we had been completely supporting ourselves and living together for 2 years by that point. As far as I was concerned we WERE settled and independent, even if we didn''t have the greatest jobs or a perfect plan for grad school/careers/the rest of our lives. I figured we were still on our own, and we could make the rest of those decisions together. But my boyfriend was VERY VERY resistant to the idea for a long time because that meant he was officially An Adult, which for whatever reason seemed really scary and bad to him. So to me it sounds like your boyfriend is in a similar situation; he knows he wants to marry you eventually and someday have you make those important decisions, but by actually saying let''s do that NOW, he would be becoming "old" and mature and responsible and not be able to (thus the fear says) just relax and have fun. Even though THAT WOULDN''T ACTUALLY CHANGE. So I''m really really sorry that he said something so thoughtless to you, but I bet he didn''t see it as being offensive, but just as one more way to hold onto the idea of himself as still being young, when you can ultimately rely on your parents to take care of you if anything bad happens. Grrr, not that 24 is "old" in any sense, or that deciding to get engaged makes you old either! So basically, I don''t understand WHY some men have this fear, but I have first hand experience that it can be upsetting to have to deal with, even though we shouldn''t take it personally. It''s just one of those things some men have to come to terms with BEFORE moving on with what they already know they eventually want to do.

I suggest having a nice long non-confrontational talk with him (if you haven''t already) and try to get him to figure out exactly why he is uncomfortable with the idea. Is it possible that you two have differing religions or anything where he might feel his parents would be more in tune with what he would want for medical care? Regardless, I bet it''s just a refusing to grow up issue. So try to get him to think more about WHY that scares him, and hopefully he''ll come to terms with it all soon. Good luck!!!!!!

 

[gracie007]

Hmmm. It is hard to give advice about other people''s relationships, because everyone is so different. I can say that my feelings would of been hurt over the "sanity" comment and the power of attorney issue. My boyfriend is my "in case of emergency" person and i am his too....when we speak of marriage it is very exciting and we both can''t wait. However, i am older than you- 24 is still so young...maybe he is just scared and wants to go slow( though i understand your frustration!) Maybe he just wants to go very slowly and get it right the first time. I am trying to see it from his side...thought reading your post- I would be feeling the same way you do.
Have you tried to have a big long non-threatening talk with him?
keep us posted

 

[bstraszheim]

Hey VivoSogno,

Wow wow wow. I don''t particularly care for his answers. You guys have been together for a really long time. Obviously you are on your own, sorry if this is too personal a question, but do either his parents, or yours, support you guys in any way financially? Perhaps this is what he was saying when he said "he wanted you guys to be on your own"?? That is pretty much all I could think of to this answer, especially since you guys live together in your own apartment. And really, he doesn''t want to get married now for his "sanity". I don''t even see how this is an answer? His answers to the Power of Attorney thing would have severely upset me. I can see how you are upset.

Just to give him the benefit of the doubt, perhaps he had had a really awfulterriblyhorrific day at work and he was just in a mood. I would try and talk to him again about it at a different time.

I am sorry that he has upset you, I also think that this is a very emotionally charged subject for you and maybe you are very sensitive to his answers, but if this had been my situation, I would have been super upset too. I hope you realise that there are people on the board who are very supportive and can be reached out to at any time. I hope this helps you,

I wish you well,

Bridget

 

[anchor31]

He may be financially and physical independant from his parents, but from what you told me, I don''t think he''s emotionally independant from them. Of course, the "cord" will need to be cut for you to have a healthy marriage, but maybe he''s not ready for that.

I''m having a hard time "cutting the cord" myself, even if I''ve been gone from my parents'' for a year. It probably makes things frustrating for my boyfriend at times, and I''m sorry for that. It''s not something that can be forced, and I know I need time and support, as does your boyfriend. I even started counselling last week, because it makes things difficult for me at school to still be emotionally "stuck at home". Hopefully you and your boyfriend will be able to find a solution too.

 

[stermag]

There is one thing that doesn''t click for me.

If he isn''t ready to put his life in your hands, and prefers that his parents make those decisions on his behalf, how can he be comfortable accepting the responsibility of making life/death decisions for you? Or does he somehow see himself as responsible but you as not responsible enough?

Personally, I wouldn''t give him the power to do that just yet, either. I feel it is a mutual thing and you either both accept that responsibility and trust one another enough to do so, or neither person should be in the position.

Just my opinion.

 

[Logan Sapphire]

I''m very sorry that your boyfriend hurt you. It definitely sounds like you need further clarification about the "sanity" and "on your own" comments. However, I just wanted to give a different viewpoint of the power of attorney aspect, although I really do want to say that it''s a totally personal thing and each to his or her own. My husband and I didn''t get married till I was 28 and he was 30. We were engaged for a year, and moved in together about 6 months before the wedding. I did not give him any say into any of my personal business, such as power of attorney, access to bank accounts, beneficiaries, retirement plans, etc., nor did he do the same for me. I kept my parents and twin sister as my next of kin, and he and I kept our money strictly separate. This didn''t mean that I didn''t love him or want to get married. When we got married, we pooled our accounts, and we''re next of kin, beneficiaries, etc. (I think most of that stuff automatically goes to the spouse unless you designate otherwise).

Like I said, it''s really all a personal thing. It does sound, though, like there are several issues that are piling up on each other that you would like answers to.

 

[vivosogno]

Thank you everyone for your comments. I know that I''m not old or anything but we have been together for a very long time and it can get so frustrating because I love him so much and I''ve been waiting for so long. I see my friends getting married and getting engaged after only dating someone for 1 or 2 years. I''ve been waiting for SIX! I am trying to be as patient as possible.

I''ve told my self if there is no progression by the end of the year that I''m moving out. Either he needs to make a commitment or it needs to be over. I feel like I deserve to be with someone who can''t live with out me.

 

[Shay]

I feel like I deserve to be with someone who can''t live with out me


I always say that you have to take responsibility for your own life, and if he is making you unhappy and treating you cruelly (that sanity quote really boils my blood) then you have to do what you have to do. On the other hand 6 years is a LONG time, don''t throw it away without at least trying to talk things out and clearly explain your feelings to him. Maybe let him know about your end of the year decision... not to bully him, but to allow him to see clearly what your plans are!

 

[ladykemma]

read this in a texas accent: hunney he loves you enough to live with you but not enough to marry you.

so, what does this mean for you? you have some decisions to make.

you can''t do anything to change HIM...only you.

 

[rainbowtrout]

Honestly.....I don''t know if he will change that much. Or maybe he will, but are you going to wait another however many years?

The power of attorney comment would infuriante me. So you are not as responsible as he is? He doesn''t trust you, at least not to that point, and you have to accept that this may not ever change or you may be waiting around until it does.

So the question is---are you OK with that?

 

[rainbowtrout]

and I suppose the answer to your question is both yes and no....

yes, its frustrating when they aren''t ready for marriage. NO, I have never felt like he did not trust me.

 

[firebirdgold]

Date: 1/26/2006 3:55:08 AM
Author: Shay
I feel like I deserve to be with someone who can''t live with out me



I always say that you have to take responsibility for your own life, and if he is making you unhappy and treating you cruelly (that sanity quote really boils my blood) then you have to do what you have to do. On the other hand 6 years is a LONG time, don''t throw it away without at least trying to talk things out and clearly explain your feelings to him. Maybe let him know about your end of the year decision... not to bully him, but to allow him to see clearly what your plans are!

That sanity comment is extremely insulting!
I''ve never been a big believer in living together first. I think it leads to more impatience for the women and more inertia for the men. Afterall, we tend to feel like we''re practically the wife since we act that way, but without the legitimacy or the security. So we see the change from living together to married as a small step. As for the men.. well my father had a saying and it involved a cow!

6 years is a long time. While it''s too long of a time to just throw away without trying to communicate clearly, it''s also too long of a time to waste on a guy who doesn''t want to be Mr. Right!
When we want something badly, I think we are all capable of incredible self-delusion. ( I shudder to think of the my ex-boyfriends, what the h@## was I thinking?) You also need to ask yourself if your boyfriend is actually the guy you think you''re in a relationship with. One of the signs I was deluding myself, was that I was starting to give myself an ulcer. With the last ex, I ended up in the emergency room a couple of times! Is your body and subconcious trying to tell you anything?

 

[Momoftwo]

I''m hearing alarm bells. If he is that committed to you he should want you to be his "in case of emergency person" and power of attorney "person" also. He actually sounds ambivalent and that to me is a big red flag. I also agree with ladykemma. Did he ever want to talk about marriage before? If not, you probably shouldn''t have moved in together. Because, ding, ding, the adult boat has sailed, marriage won''t change that. You''re both already adults and him not marrying you won''t make his life any saner unless it''s what he wants. Sounds like he''s not concerned with your feelings about it and is having his own issues. You can''t change him, but you can make it clear that you will not continue to just live with him and he needs to decide when he''ll be ready, because you are. Here''s the deal: 1) You''re already on your own in your own apt, 2) You''ve been together for 6 years 3) You''re living together with no commitment timeline or ring, so, He''s probably perfectly comfortable with the situation because it''s the way he wants it which obviously not what you want. His needs and wants do not supersede yours. You need to make yourself heard. If you can''t communicate now, don''t expect to ever be on an equal playing field. We can I''m sorry to you all day, but the reality is, that''s not gonna fix anything. Sounds like you need to stand up for yourself.

 

[decodelighted]

Looking entirely from the outside just with your words at hand ...

a) he doesn''t trust you
b) he''s closer to his parents than he is to you
c) he believes marrying you will make him lose his sanity

Um, this is a far cry from someone "not wanting to live without you"... this is a guy who seems to be barely tolerating LIVING WITH YOU.

Prepare yourself for a sudden, heartbreaking end - or make one yourself on your own terms.

 

[fountainfairfax]

everything posted here is so right-on, but I just wanted to share a similar story.....

When my ex-husband and I had been dating for 6 years (and living together) and were also 24 yrs old, he got a life insurance policy through his job. I asked him who he listed as his beneficiary and he said his little sister, who was probably 10 at the time. I asked him why her and not me and he said " Why would you deserve it? If anything happens to me you''re on your own. I don''t want to take care of you after I''m gone." We had shared debt and responsibilities at that point and the whole thing hurt me so badly I remember it like it was yesterday. If he had said "I want her to go to college" I would''ve understood.

I should''ve run right there and then but I didn''t, we were married about a year later and his attitude regarding "caring for me" in any instance never changed. and he did every underhanded thing during the divorce to screw me over. A tough lesson learned for me. I don''t think his attitude towards me as being less worthy or worthwhile than his family would''ve ever changed.

I know my situation isn''t identical to yours but my ex also was evasive about marriage and said it wouldn''t do anything for him. We only got married after I decided to move away for grad school and he freaked out.

Good luck & I hope everything gets better for you.

 

[Vero]

Wow, Ountainfairfax. What a story! I bet he had you during the marriage all the time trying to prove yourself to him....

I agree with the other posts here. I, myself, had the opposite experience: I was the one going: Neh, I don''t know if your the one.... Just my own issues and messed-up head. I know that things would have changed drastically if my bf (now hb) said to me: "Look, decide if I''m the person you want and if you can be happy with me. When you know you do, come back. Until then, please don''t contact me." I needed him to respect himself before I could respect him. Him waiting around for me to see the light didn''t help either of us. Just re-enforced my idea that he was not worthy of my devotion, since he seemed to think he had to "earn it". Lots of suffering in both sides. Eventually, I decided to get some serious theraphy. I am very lucky that he didn''t get fed up forever and left or found somebody else saner than myself. But from this other point of view I can tell you that he sounds very emotionally abusive to you. I know because I''ve been that way myself that the more the other person takes it, the more you tend to abuse them. It may sound like I''m a monster, but the way it feels is like this: you come home and your s/o is on the couch. Apparently sleeping. You call him and he doesn''t wake up. You shake them and he doen''t respond. what would you do? Shake him harder, of course! Maybe even scream at him and hit them to wake them up! That''s what the abuser does: trys to shake you out of your victim position. And if you don''t react he will just do it more. It may be hard to avoid feeling that if you are patient enough with him he will change, but the opposite is true. If you allow him to abuse you: guess what he''ll do?

I think your considering alternatives is a very healthy thing for you to do. When you are w/someone for such a long time is very hard to keep perspective. If at all possible for you, it may be good to take a vacation by yourself, with friends maybe, but not with him. Or maybe spanding a couple of weeks living with a friend if you can''t take time off; just to clear your head. And forget what HE thinks about that. If you need it, he should understand. You shouldn''t have to walk in pins and needles around your partner. You sound like a caring person. You should have the same from him.

Sorry if I''m being too oppinionated. Just trying to give one more point of view.

 

[zdrastvootya]

Wow, FF that''s rough.

I''m thinking there''s a similarity between you and the poster. You got together with a guy starting pretty young (18 I think) and were together 6 years. I think a young guy could be lulled into a complete lack of appreciation for his partner, because he was probably immature to begin with, hasn''t been forced to grow up, and the partner is always there no matter what he does.

The possibility of a partner leaving is often a wake-up call. He''ll either be shocked or indifferent. My 2 cents.

Z.

 

[ellewoods]

Hi Vivo.

I''m sorry for the frustration you''ve gone through. I''m not on your boyfriend''s side, but I don''t think he''s been entirely unreasonable.

Even though 6 years is a long, 24 is also very young for men to be ready to be married. I met my boyfriend at 19, he was 21. We''ve been together almost 7 years now (I''m 27 and he''s 29 now). After a couple of years we knew we wanted to get married, but the time wasn''t right (grad school, long distance, etc.). And even though I knew he felt serious about things, when he was 24/25/26, he wasn''t ready to be a husband at that point. Not for any lack of love for me, but he felt strongly about getting on his own, becoming a proper adult before taking things to the next level of engagement and marriage.

Now we''re finally at that point, and I think engagement is coming soon. And while the last year or so I''ve gone through frustration and wanting to get settled and comparing myself to friends who were married at 24, or after only 2 years of dating, etc. And I''ve realized that it just wasn''t right for us when we were younger, and our friends had their own unique situations.

Anyway, I think that if he''s the right guy for you in all other respects except his hesitancy to get engaged right now, then you should stick with him and see how things go. Guys get weird about engagement and marriage when they know they''re on the path towards that, and want that, but don''t feel adult enough or settled enought to propse at this point. I mean if he was 29 and still hesitating I''d feel differently. Or even 27. But 24 is still very young to get married, especially for guys.

Also, I wouldn''t take his comment about not wanting you to be his power of attorney so negatively. Only you know how he meant it, but when I read you story I thought that it seemed like the situation was that you''ve been pressuring him, talking about engagement and marriage, so he''s at the point he''s tired about hearing it, he feels like you''re nagging, and he wants you to chill out a bit so he can get there on his own time.

By you saying "I want you to be my power of attorney....do you want me to be yours?" It''s just another way of pressuring him. He doesn''t hear "power of attorney" he hears "I want to marry you, will you marry me???" I''m sure that''s not what you intended, but he probably took it like a round-about-way to talk about engagement again.

Also, you said you guys live together....but are you still in school? Do either (or both) of you still depend on your parents for money? Do they pay some of your rent, or any of your bills, health insurance, car insurance? If they do, I''m not saying it''s bad, and its great you have parents who can help. But guys especially feel like they''re not truly on their own until they''re out of school and financially responsible for themselves. I mean if you get engaged, but he''s still accepting money from his parents for rent or bills or school....well that just doesn''t seem independent. Also, if he would have to borrow or take money from his parents to buy an engagement ring, he''s also not independent then. See what I mean? This may not even apply to your situation but I wanted to point it out.

A couple of years ago, one of my friends was getting married to one of my boyfriend''s best friends. They had been dating for about 2 years (started dating after us, got married before us). She had just graduated college and hadn''t found a job, he had his first job. Her parents assisted her financially quite a bit (and they still do some). My boyfriend and I were both in grad school. She was about 24 when they got married. And the night of the rehersal dinner she asked my boyfriend "When are you and ElleWoods going to get engaged? Just borrow some money from your parents for the ring and do it already."

And she''s a great person and a great friend, but her comment really annoyed me. My boyfriend feels very strongly about being on his own two feet and he would never consider asking his parents to borrow money for a ring....he doesn''t consider that independent and adult enough to get married. For some people that may be the right decision, but for us, it is not. And just because other people are married at 24, doesn''t mean that''s right for everyone either.

If you and your boyfriend had started dating at 23 or 24, and it had been 6 years and you were now 29 or 30, and he was saying "not now, I''m not ready," well then I''d tell you to be patient a little longer, but frankly discuss with him what time frame he was thinking. Then you could evaluate whether or not you wanted to wait longer for him. But started dating at 19....you guys are now just 24....that doesn''t show me that he''s just dragging his feet for no good reason or he''s a commitment phobic or just using you or "wants to live with you, doesn''t want to marry you." What it does show me is that you guys seem to have a good relationship and love each other and are headed towards engagement or marriage, but he''s not ready just yet. I wouldn''t be surprised if he was ready in 1 year. And 25 is still pretty young!

Good luck Vivo. Hang in there.

 

[Momoftwo]

Based on his comments I don't think this has anything to do with age. 24 isn't too young and the fact he mentioned sanity is weird. What exactly does that comment mean? I would have pursued that topic first. Also, his being on their own comment doesn't mesh since they are already out on their own in their own place. My personal opinion is that living together isn't right because no real commitment (legally especially) is really involved, but that aside, you don't live with someone you're not ready to marry or at least be engaged to with a wedding date set. I see this as he's got everything his way and doesn't want to change it. It sounds like from what she's posted, he won't talk to her about it, just shuts her down and makes it all about him. He's still talking like a single guy with his parents being his choice. I think this requires a frank discussion about where this is going and when and if he still won't commit, she needs to decide what is best for her because he's not putting her first as he should be doing if he really loves her. Like I said earlier, I see ambivalence which is worse than being unsure. Ambivalence (not hate) is the opposite of love.

One question, what led you to live together? Was it financial, easier, or was it wanting to be together? The answer to that can tell you a lot.

 

[ellewoods]

I don''t think that by living together, Vivo and her boyfriend are automatically "on their own." They may be in school and still somewhat supported by their parents. They may be in school and living solely on student loans. They may be working, but still largely supported financially by their parents (by paying health insurance, car insurance, or even more expenses such as rent and living expense money). Vivo hasn''t told us more about her situation, so we just don''t know. But I don''t think we can assume they''re entirely independent just because they share an apartment.

Her BF told her he wants to wait to get engaged/married until they''re "on their own." That comment makes me think that they may be in a situation like I described above, sharing an apartment but still in school, or still supported (part or all) by their parents or student loans. That''s why I''m pointing out that her boyfriend might not be a jerk who is dragging his feet. There may be legitimate reasons he wants to wait. They both just turned 24, which is still very young to get married. And it certainly is a young age to be entirely financially independent for many people.

Or they may be financially independent, working, and sharing an apartment -- yet living month to month, not having any financial security built up in savings or whatever, and the boyfriend may think they''re not ready to get married because they aren''t in a position to afford their regular expenses plus a wedding at this point.

It may just be a difference of opinion between Vivo and her BF as to age -- he might think 24 is too young, whereas she doesn''t. Many of the posters here think 24 is old enough to get married, while some of us don''t -- neither answer is right.

I think MomofTwo is entirely right in her advice to sit him down and have a frank discussion about where things are going. Even if he''s not ready to get engaged just yet, he definitely should be ready to tell Vivo frankly how he sees their relationship and where he is in terms of getting engaged. He owes it to her to be honest and explain his timeframe, even if its an answer she doesn''t want to hear.

He should also explain what he meant about the "sanity" comment. I mean if he''s working a job, going to school, still financially dependent on his family or has no financial backing at this point -- I don''t think he''s necessarily a jerk for saying he''s not ready to get married right now because his life is so crazy and hectic and in transition.

But if he has a steady job, has finished school, and there are''t extra factors that make their lives exceptionally stressful and complicated right now, then the sanity comment could mean he''s just dragging his feet with no justification.