Sooooooooo confused

[Jessdoll]

Hello all, I am new and would like to share my story and ask for your view. I have been dating my bf for 2 years now. I am 31 years old and he is 37 years old. I have been married prior. Last year I felt like our relationship was going no where and given bad past experiences I spoke to my bf about our commitment to one another. He ended up proposing sans ring. It was during a bad time in our relationship and a little while after we actually took a break. Fast forward to now...we are very together and have worked out the issues. Everyone knows that we are engaged and we have set a wedding date. The things that concern me are that when things were going badly be told me he felt pressured to propose. He mentioned setting a wedding date but was drunk at the time and dodged the subject many times there after. I also am still sans ring. My bf is very well off. I may have mentioned that I want a "rock" but I am also very well established and offered to contribute to the ring of my choice. We are going overseas in a few months and have kind of talked about getting a diamond then but he is always vague. It hurts my feelings because it feels like he does not feel like I am worth investing a diamond in despite the fact that he is very generous as far as gifts go. Maybe he does not want to get married? I don''t want to seem materialistic because I do not think that I am...I am sooooooooo confused...

 

[gwendolyn]

I don''t think you are being materialistic, m''dear, especially if money isn''t a concern for him (ie: he isn''t dirt poor) AND if you''d talked together about getting a ring. It sounds like he is dragging his feet, so I think you should sit him down, explain your concerns to him as clearly as you just did to us, and figure out where to go from there. I think if you just sit back and wait for him to make the next move, you might be waiting a long while. Since you''re already rather confused now, just waiting for him to do something without talking to him explicitly about it will probably only make you feel more confused and more anxious.

 

[bee*]

I agree with Gwen-you really need to talk to him. From reading your post, you don''t seem to be 100% sure about the whole thing so I really think that the two of you need to sit down and have a proper talk about where the relationship is going. If he has quite a bit of money and you guys are officially engaged, I don''t see why he wouldn''t get you a ring (it doesn''t have to be big or expensive). When is your wedding planned for?

 

[Delster]

You need to sit down and have a calm, sober, no holds barred talk about everything - engagement, marriage, the ring. There are a lot of mixed messages coming through in your post. This is not something to be subtle about, either of you. You need to know where he stands and he needs to know where you stand. ''Kind of'' talking and maybes won''t cut it when you''re dealing with the rest of your life! Good luck, I hope you guys can work it all out

 

[NewEnglandLady]

Jessdoll, I completely agree with all the others--it sounds like "technically" you can say you''re engaged since he did ask, but emotionally he''s really not where you are. The only way to really settle it is to talk about it.

It sounds like he is doing the bare minimum to keep you. I can relate. A couple of years ago I told my then-boyfriend that I was moving out because I didn''t want to keep waiting for an engagement ring. He told me to give him another month to get the ring and propose and I said that was fine. It was the most miserable month of my life, it felt forced and awkward. At the end of the month he proposed, sans ring, and we chose a date.

I knew quickly that his heart really wasn''t in it, it''s not like he was shouting our engagement from the rooftops--in fact, I think we both felt some resentment and it was tense. Finally, at 4 a.m. one day I woke him up and asked him directly if he was ready to be engaged--I needed him to be honest and not just say we were engaged to keep me. He was honest with me and said it didn''t feel right and he wasn''t comfortable. He said what we both knew, but I appreciated him being honest.

I did move out after that, which was the best thing for both of us. The bottom line is that you shouldn''t have to hold somebody''s hand through the engagement process.

Long story short, he proposed three months after I left and was VERY ready. The difference was like night and day--the ring was more than I ever expected, he took me to Paris, he was so excited and told everybody about the engagement (including strangers in cafes, haha) and was really excited to plan the wedding--not once through the whole wedding planning was there a shred of doubt or fear, he really embraced it. And now he loves being married.

Sorry about this novel, but on NYE we were talking about all of the changes we''d gone through individually and as a couple in 2007 and we talked quite a bit about the difference between the first time when he half-heartedly proposed and the second time when his heart was completely in it. He now admits that it was selfish of him to propose the first time without really being ready, he said he WANTED to be ready because he knew how much it meant to me so he was sort of hoping that proposing would force him to be ready. At the time, he felt he was doing the right thing, but quickly realized that he proposed for the wrong reasons (i.e. to make me happy) and he knew that wasn''t fair to either of us.

The conversation when he told me he wasn''t ready was one of the toughest we''ve ever had, but it NEEDED to happen. To me, it sounds like your boyfriend might be in a similar boat. He might need more time, or more space, or who knows, he may never really be ready. But I know how awful it is to feel like he''s just not that into it and I wouldn''t want for you to have to go through your engagement like that.

Good luck!! I really want for it to work out for you!

 

[MissErin]

First of all let me greet you with a big WELCOME!! I''m glad you came here and feel comfortable to confide in all of us. It''s a big step and takes some courage to put all your cards on the table about your relationship. For that I commend you!!

The great thing about this site is that the advice is unbelievable. The girls have so much experience and everyone can offer help in your best interest. I come on here often to just smile because there are so many helpful ladies willing to be there for you.

That being said, I agree with what each lady has said. I too feel like you are unsure and maybe you should weigh the pros and cons before having a serious conversation about the rest of your life. My concern (that may be TOTALLY wrong) is that you are settling because of your age. You pointed the age aspect out and it struck me that maybe you are with him for the comfort part, more then the marriage. And that''s fine. So that would be something you may want to sit down and think about.

If you come away feeling he is "the one" then yes, I think a conversation with NO distractions is a must. Let him know how you really feel and listen to his side of it all. This will give you both a lot more understanding of each other, and what is to come.

Finally, make sure to come here if you need more advice. We are ALWAYS willing to help and you are now a part of the pricescope family!! hehe I look forward to seeing what you have to say.

 

[sandia_rose]

Date: 1/2/2008 2:20:10 PM
Author: MissErin

That being said, I agree with what each lady has said. I too feel like you are unsure and maybe you should weigh the pros and cons before having a serious conversation about the rest of your life. My concern (that may be TOTALLY wrong) is that you are settling because of your age. You pointed the age aspect out and it struck me that maybe you are with him for the comfort part, more then the marriage. And that''s fine. So that would be something you may want to sit down and think about.

I can hear what you''re saying there as far as assuming on the age thing - I''ll be 40 this year. I''ve already told my boyfriend that my time limit for dating with no commitment/future plans is 2-1/2 years. He also knows that I will not move in with him unless we have an engagement. It would be one thing if we were very young, still in school, waiting to become established, etc. But we''re both established adults who have both been married before. When you get to that point/stage in life, you shouldn''t need more than a year or two to know whether or not you want to be with someone for life.

I don''t think of my thought process as settling or anything like that. It''s just that I have been married before and know that I don''t want to wait years and years and years for nothing definate when I could be using the time to find someone to settle down with. I also don''t want to move in with him, have everything be comfortable and nicey-nice....and then wait for the engagement that never comes. I''m pretty progressive in a lot of ways -- but I won''t move in with a guy unless I have a ring and a plan. I know too many women my age who have been living with guys for years and are waiting. I know it sounds bad, but my grandma was right: A lot of men won''t buy the cow if they can get the milk for free. The worst ones are the ones who have been married before. If a man is not ready to commit on some level and/or is still getting over previous relationships, then he has no business dating until he gets his issues/head straight. Hey, I didn''t date for over a year after my divorce....and my divorce itself took a year to settle in the meantime. I had two years prior to now to figure out what I wanted or did not want.

Not sure if the OP shares my opinions/life stage observations or what, but I just thought I''d put them out there. The scenery is a little different when someone is in their 30s and 40s as compared to 20s.

In the meantime, a conversation is just that: a conversation. You aren''t going to know unless you ask the questions. And the rest of your life is a very worthy subject to air into the open! If you''re contemplating marrying this man, then there should be nothing that you can''t ask or bring up.

Bridget in Connecticut.

 

[hearts-arrows_girl]

You are not engaged until he gets you the ring! I would suggest that you get busy with You! Back off in the relationship and start doing more things alone. This will take the pressure off both of you and a guy doesn't know how much you mean to him until he is without you. Let him wish he had more time with you, not wish he weren't so pressured by you! I did not live with my husband until we were married. I liked it that way. I also didn't do his laundry or clean his house. If a guy wants a woman to do wifely things for him, then he needs to get a wife, not just a girlfriend who will do it to try to please him. Most people are motivated by necessity. If he doesn't have to marry you to have more time with you, he might not marry you. A good book I read was John Grey's "Venus and Mars on a Date". I wasted many years pressuring and trying to make it happen myself before I read this book. It was very enlightening and talked alot about focusing on yourself and not pressuring your partner for marriage. Have a non pressuring chat about your plans for your future, let him know you love him and hope they will include him, and let him know that if he has a different path for his future, that you respect his right to chose a life's path that is best for HIM, but you will have to be true to yourself and find someone with like-minded plans for their future. If you don't get any kind of a proposal that is TOLALLY his idea, and when he is completely sober, and you feel you will not wait any longer, then take a break and re-evaluate your options. Sometimes time alone is the best time for clear thinking.

 

[MissErin]

Date: 1/2/2008 3:34:43 PM
Author: hearts-arrows_girl
I would suggest that you get busy with You! Back off in the relationship and start doing more things alone. This will take the pressure off both of you and a guy doesn''t know how much you mean to him until he is without you. Let him wish he had more time with you, not wish he weren''t so pressured by you! I did not live with my husband until we were married. I liked it that way. I also didn''t do his laundry or clean his house. If a guys wants a woman to do wifely things for him, then he needs to get a wife, not just a girlfriend who will do it to try to please him. Most people are motivated by necessity. If he doesn''t have to marry you to have more time with you, he might not marry you. A good book I read was John Grey''s ''Venus and Mars on a Date''. I wasted many years pressuring and trying to make it happen myself before I read this book. It was very enlightening and talked alot about focusing on yourself and not pressuring your partner for marriage. Have a non pressuring chat about your plans for your future, let him know you love him and hope they will include him, and let him know that if he has a different path for his future, that you respect his right to chose a life''s path that is best for HIM, but you will have to be true to yourself and find someone with like-minded plans for their future. If you don''t get any kind of a proposal that is TOLALLY his idea, and when he is completely sober, and you feel you will not wait any longer, then take a break and re-evaluate your options. Sometimes time alone is the best time for clear thinking.

This advice is GOLD!! I love the fact that you didn''t live with your man until you were husband and wife. I plan on the same path. hehe And I really loved the fact that you are telling her to be strong and independant!! I think sometimes all of us can lose sight of that so it is a GREAT point to bring up. Awesome post!!

P.S. I LOVE your avitar ring Heart-Arrows_girl!!

 

[hearts-arrows_girl]

Thanks MissErin, your post inspired me to collect my thoughts and put together my post!

 

[MissErin]

Date: 1/2/2008 3:53:49 PM
Author: hearts-arrows_girl
Thanks MissErin, your post inspired me to collect my thoughts and put together my post!

Now this is the reason this site is so successful - Great people with fantastic, well thought out advice. I''m honored to be a part of this!!

 

[Keepingthefaith21]

Date: 1/2/2008 3:34:43 PM
Author: hearts-arrows_girl
Have a non pressuring chat about your plans for your future, let him know you love him and hope they will include him, and let him know that if he has a different path for his future, that you respect his right to chose a life''s path that is best for HIM, but you will have to be true to yourself and find someone with like-minded plans for their future.

Very sound advice. I did this about a month or so ago with my SO and I think it really opened his eyes to how strong I am. Although I am in love with him, I am willing to let that go in order to pursue my own dreams especially if he is uncertain where his path his heading. Although I am not magically engaged to him, the conversation did illustrate to my SO that he needn''t be as comfy cozy with our arrangement as he once was. It also gave me a very huge confidence lift. Knowing that I AM in control of my life is a sublime feeling.

 

[MissErin]

Date: 1/2/2008 4:21:38 PM
Author: Keepingthefaith21

Date: 1/2/2008 3:34:43 PM
Author: hearts-arrows_girl
Have a non pressuring chat about your plans for your future, let him know you love him and hope they will include him, and let him know that if he has a different path for his future, that you respect his right to chose a life''s path that is best for HIM, but you will have to be true to yourself and find someone with like-minded plans for their future.

Very sound advice. I did this about a month or so ago with my SO and I think it really opened his eyes to how strong I am. Although I am in love with him, I am willing to let that go in order to pursue my own dreams especially if he is uncertain where his path his heading. Although I am not magically engaged to him, the conversation did illustrate to my SO that he needn''t be as comfy cozy with our arrangement as he once was. It also gave me a very huge confidence lift. Knowing that I AM in control of my life is a sublime feeling.

YES!! This is exactly what all of us LIWs should remember. We are all strong, amazing women with beautiful lives. Having the man of our dreams forever is one part of that. Just remember to relect of the incredible woman you are. Take time out for YOU.

 

[NewEnglandLady]

Date: 1/2/2008 4:21:38 PM
Author: Keepingthefaith21

Date: 1/2/2008 3:34:43 PM
Author: hearts-arrows_girl
Have a non pressuring chat about your plans for your future, let him know you love him and hope they will include him, and let him know that if he has a different path for his future, that you respect his right to chose a life's path that is best for HIM, but you will have to be true to yourself and find someone with like-minded plans for their future.

Very sound advice. I did this about a month or so ago with my SO and I think it really opened his eyes to how strong I am. Although I am in love with him, I am willing to let that go in order to pursue my own dreams especially if he is uncertain where his path his heading. Although I am not magically engaged to him, the conversation did illustrate to my SO that he needn't be as comfy cozy with our arrangement as he once was. It also gave me a very huge confidence lift. Knowing that I AM in control of my life is a sublime feeling.

I think this is so, so valuable. Lord knows that the limbo process is hard on a lady's self esteem and sometimes a woman needs to get some control back in her life. I think that letting a man know that you are not going to be waiting around for him not only makes you feel better about yourself, but it also makes him realize that he needs to make a decision himself. The real power doesn't come from saying it, but from meaning it.

 

[NewEnglandLady]

Oops, double post!

 

[FrekeChild]

What they ^ said.

I also want to throw this in-even though I don''t think this is the real issue-my parents got engaged WITHOUT a ring. YES it IS a valid engagement without a ring (just maybe not to us PSers...

) and they''ve been happily married for about 32 years. My mom was making really good money, and my dad wasn''t, but it didn''t matter because to them, the ring wasn''t important (how was I raised by them?! jk), just them being together was. I should also mention that my mom was 31 or so, and my dad 39. My mom felt pretty much the same way you do "he thinks I''m not worth a diamond"-for 27 years of marriage- after my dad became more well established. Well for their 27th wedding anniversary he shocked her with a 1.5 carat princess diamond ring. The first thing she said was, "Is that thing real?!", because she never thought he would go out and do it. Of course, I helped him pick it out.

But first, you need to figure out if the engagement is, in fact, genuine...

 

[KimberlyH]

Jess,

I think this is a lot less about a ring and a lot more about your feeling like you''ve pushed him into something he''s not ready for. Time for an involved, very personal conversation about your and his hopes, dreams and vision of the future. I so hope the results are that you open up the lines of communication and become even closer and more in love with one another.

 

[sandia_rose]

Date: 1/2/2008 10:08:52 PM
Author: FrekeChild
What they ^ said.

I also want to throw this in-even though I don''t think this is the real issue-my parents got engaged WITHOUT a ring. YES it IS a valid engagement without a ring (just maybe not to us PSers...

) and they''ve been happily married for about 32 years.

I think that you can be engaged without a ring (just because I personally want one does not make my mileage fit everyone). I posted previously on another thread about a woman in my college classes. I knew her as a classmate but not like a close friend. Looking back, she kind of reminded me of Amy Winehouse in how she looked (although she was a sane person and not on drugs as far as I know!). We were in an Art class studying primative art, and the instructor had started talking about how ancient people used their bodies as canvases - tattooing and marking was big. And this woman volunteered with, "My fiancee and I have matching engagement tattoos." Someone in the class said, "What about a diamond?" to which she replied, "We''re not jewelery people, so this was more personal for us. When we get married, we''re going to add to them."

And I also posted that they are still married -- I read a birth announcement in our local paper for the couple''s third child....

You just reminded me of a funny story, too, that''s kind of along these lines. One of my brother''s wives is (and she''s a nice person, so this is not a slam) very ditzy. One day, she was de-boning/gutting chicken for soup when she realized that her wedding band slipped off. She looked through the whole chicken - had my brother take apart the garbage disposal - THEN made him look in their condo complex dumpster. Never came up with it. So she asked him to buy her a new one. He wouldn''t. He said that she should have take it off before cleaning chicken. It wasn''t an expensive ring or anything....my brother was just annoyed because she does stuff like this All The TIME. Fast forward to fairly recently. I noticed during a visit (my brother lives in another state, so I don''t see him often) that he wasn''t wearing his wedding band and neither was she. I asked him what was up. He, the eternal joker said, "I''m married to chicken guts." So I said, "What??!!" He told me the above story and then said, "I...um...kind of gained weight and had to have mine cut off. I don''t feel like spending money on another one....seeing as I am married to chicken guts and all." My brother has been married for 12 years and will probably be married to his wife forever --- I just thought that story was funny, in light of the "the ring means you''re engaged/married" discussion we''re having.

Bridget in Connecticut.

 

[HollyS]

You''ve set a wedding date. Do you feel that the date is also nebulous? It may or may not happen?

Is he being non-commital, or just evasive? Do you feel he is avoiding marriage or just avoiding the expenditure of a ring?

These are real issues; don''t be shy about resolving them. Everybody needs to be strong enough in their own personal sense that they would and could walk away from an iffy relationship. None of us need a partner that badly. Finding the right person and creating a life with them is no easy task, as you well know from a first marriage dissolution. Before you plan a wedding that you aren''t sure he truly wants, get to the bottom of your fears and his reserved behavior.

I hope everything works out for your best interests; good luck.