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Stuck on Returning a Purchase: Nature of a Blue Sapphire.

LemonMoonLex

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 13, 2018
Messages
2,069
Hello CS lovers,

It's been quite a while since I've created a thread, well one centering on a gemstone that is. I'm frozen right now and am not sure how to proceed.

To give a detailed yet brief overview of my situation & quandary:

I won this stick pin on ebay. It was advertised as completely natural, antique in nature (the entire stick pin) with a small old cut diamond in solid gold.

A very simple listing and description by a seller who had 100% and had sold a fair amount but was a seller that only listed 10-15 things at a time and they are mostly purses, clothes, with random costume jewelry scattered in. This listing was the only fine piece of jewelry listed. I love finding sellers like these as they usually are not extremely knowledgeable about jewelry or gems and sometimes you may find hidden treasures.

Once I receive it it's stunning. The color is gorgeous. I suppose it has a bit of gray to the blue as it's not electric but it can look extremely vivid or saturated in color most times. It's a beautiful very classic blue sapphire. I then realize the pin is stamped "14k" and I test for purity. It is correct. The diamond is also a gorgeous little old cut and tests true as well.

I didn't question the sapphire until I took out a loupe, eager to learn it's personality and there between the middle and a top corner is a grouping of what appears to look like bubbles. My heart sank. I then see color zoning but because of the placement of the pin on the back it's impossible to really examine and with everything I have I cannot see any curvation to the color zoning but again, it's difficult to examine.

Now normally I'd just get an agl or gia cert but this pin cost me about as much as what a cert would. I contacted the seller and told her the findings. She promptly wrote back and was extremely understanding and kind. She said that she had taken the pin to an auction house in Alabama, where she gave me the name of it, to where she was told that the sapphire is indeed natural, with a natural diamond in 14k and antique in nature.

She recommended I take my time to take it to different people to get other opinions, as she's aware of how much I adore it but knows that I do not want to keep it if the sapphire cabochon is indeed synthetic. She also said that if the majority feels it's synthetic or if I am unhappy with it, to feel free to send it back with a full refund.

I'm really not sure what to do. My gut isn't telling me, as it usually does on whether the stone is natural or synthetic. With a loupe I see other inclusions of sorts in the stone but barely, it's incredibly clean. I've also heard that bubbles dont automatically mean synthetic as there can be bubble shaped inclusions but there's a grouping of them.

What should I do? If I get a cert then I'm spending as much money as the pin I bought and if it's synthetic I'm out the money for the cert and will most definitely return it but that doesn't seem like an acceptable conclusion.

Should I just make it into the ring that I had planned to and enjoy it? Never knowing what it is? I think I might be okay with that if most feel as though it's natural but I know it's so hard to tell.

Should I take it to jewelers around my city for quick and free guesses? We all here know that they're opinions are just educated guesses at best and the majority won can be wrong.


What do you all think?
What would you all personally do if in the same scenario?

Thank you in advance for your opinions. I will try to take some micro pictures through the loupe of the bubbles later today and add them to the thread.

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Will you remain mind clean about the sapphire? If this will bother you forever, either return it or get it checked out (AGL memo isn't that pricey but I think the backlog might be longer than usual + shipping). If this doesn't phase you, reset it and enjoy it.
 
If it’s synthetic, do the labs charge full report price or do they “quit” and it’s a smaller charge?

if you return without testing , are you out all shipping charges?

will the vendor cover any testing charges or if they don’t cover any shipping charges - would they at this point?
 
If it’s synthetic, do the labs charge full report price or do they “quit” and it’s a smaller charge?

if you return without testing , are you out all shipping charges?

will the vendor cover any testing charges or if they don’t cover any shipping charges - would they at this point?

The first is a very very good question. I actually don't know because any stones I've ever sent both labs I knew were natural and were from trusted vendors.

The small one woman ebay seller will refund me original shipping and full purchase price. I doubt shipping the stone back will cost more than $10 and I'm fine with paying for that unless I get proof it's not as described and is synthetic. Then she's obligated to pay for return shipping and give me a full refund.

& No, the whole pin was sold for less than $200, not $200 but less than so I highly doubt she's going to offer to pay for the cost of a memo or cert if it comes back unnatural and I don't think ebay would force her to if I opened a case but I'm not totally sure. She's been incredibly kind and open about it all so far and made it known that if I find it to be synthetic and what the auction house told her is wrong that I can send it back for a full refund.
 
Will you remain mind clean about the sapphire? If this will bother you forever, either return it or get it checked out (AGL memo isn't that pricey but I think the backlog might be longer than usual + shipping). If this doesn't phase you, reset it and enjoy it.

I guess I'd just like more eyes to take a look and tell me their opinion. If most feel like it's likely natural as well, then I will be fine enjoying it without solid proof. If not it will eat at me.

I'd urge people to wait with their personal opinion/guesses about the stones nature until I upload closer photos or attempted ones of the bubbles.

Because of the shape of the stone it's so reflective and it's easy to see things in there that are merely reflections, especially of the pin.
 
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Also would sharing the name of the auction house help?

Like do most ppl here know auction houses?

I'm not involved in that world whatsoever so I have no clue, but if someone does please let me know if sharing the name would help legitimize the houses opinion that the sapphire is natural or not.
 
Try taking a picture with the sapphire inside a glass of water. Not sure why, but that sometimes enhances the view of the “guts”. It’s a very pretty stone btw!
 
I really like your pin a lot! I'm not sure I'd keep it if the intention was to dismantle it and reuse. I always assume early-20th century rubies and sapphires are lab created, and it's a nice surprise if they're natural.

That being said, I've been loving antique pins a lot lately, and would see the value of one like yours more in the antique style and overall quality vs whether the sapphire is natural or not. It would be really awesome used as a lapel pin on a spring jacket or to turn out the collar of a white button up.
 
Just took these very quickly, very busy day today but I'd love to hear your opinions.

I'm seeing curved color zoning in these. I dont think the shape of the cab could distort the color zoning in pictures could it? Again, its too difficult to see in person and can only be captured in photos.

I took these photos blind pretty much as the sun was super bright but seemed to capture the bubbles as well.

Consensus?

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I really like your pin a lot! I'm not sure I'd keep it if the intention was to dismantle it and reuse. I always assume early-20th century rubies and sapphires are lab created, and it's a nice surprise if they're natural.

That being said, I've been loving antique pins a lot lately, and would see the value of one like yours more in the antique style and overall quality vs whether the sapphire is natural or not. It would be really awesome used as a lapel pin on a spring jacket or to turn out the collar of a white button up.

What do you honestly see similar pins selling for if the stones are synthetic?

& I wish I could enjoy it as is but I really have no use for stickpins. I've tried so hard to wear them but I get zero enjoyment from them so rather then selling them I've turned them into pieces I'll actually wear and cherish.

I also wish that I could enjoy wearing synthetic stones but I just can't. The mind clean thing bugs me to no avail.
 
Well, it's not just the fact that it might be synthetic. If it's a natural stone, but diffused, it could be one tenth the price of a similar stone not diffused, but simply heated. By the way all diffused stones are heated, but not all heated stones are diffused.

If I paid the worth of the gold and diamond, I would keep it. However, if you paid substantially more than that, I would return it if I couldn't get a definitive answer on the nature of the gem (synthetic or natural/diffused).

Good luck! It's a very pretty gem.
 
What do you honestly see similar pins selling for if the stones are synthetic?

& I wish I could enjoy it as is but I really have no use for stickpins. I've tried so hard to wear them but I get zero enjoyment from them so rather then selling them I've turned them into pieces I'll actually wear and cherish.

I also wish that I could enjoy wearing synthetic stones but I just can't. The mind clean thing bugs me to no avail.

I think some people are collectors of antiques and place more of a value on the age and attached history (known or imagined) of a piece than on the stone's origin. There are some antique pieces made of high carat metal or platinum that have lab stones just because they were new and exciting and trendy at the time. And I think collectors enjoy that a bit, but the prices are unfortunately all over the place from scrap prices to $500+ in my area.

I understand completely that's not what you're wanting it for. I'm not big into lab stones either. If you want it for the sapphire, and it's not worth testing, maybe better to release to someone who will want it for what it is?

Hopefully someone can to help you out from your zoomed pictures. It would be awesome if it turns out to be natural and you can proceed with your project!
 
I’ve been buying on eBay for over 20 years.
Many private sellers on eBay wouldn’t know the difference between lab grown or natural, let alone if treatments were applied. Some of them might have asked a jeweller or pawnshop to test it, for free, with a Presidum gem tester which can tell them if it’s glass but not if it’s natural or lab sapphire or spinel.
As you rightly said, it costs money to send away for a lab certificate and most eBay sellers don’t do that because a) the wouldn’t even think of doing so or b) the cost is too much for the value of the item.
With the stick pin, for around $200, the money is in the workmanship, gold and wee diamond. So for $200 even as a lab sapphire it’s a fair purchase price.
I wouldn’t seek a lab report, or expect the seller to fund one due to the cost of a lab report against the items cost.
If you are concerned by the fact it may be lab grown, take up the sellers offer of returning it for a refund.
To be sure that a gemstone is natural and not treated, or the level of treatment known, you need to buy from a gem broker or reputable jeweller who has the knowledge and equipment access to ascertain the status of any gemstone they sell. Obviously the price you’ll pay for such gemstones will reflect the higher level of knowledge / testing.
 
I think its a beautiful pin but for me would not be mind-clean - meaning, I would assume its synthetic or heavily treated by default unless proven otherwise. I could accept this for the price you paid if I loved it enough. But personally, I would return because I prefer to save up more $ for the perfect piece, though everyone buys differently.

Heres some eyecandy... Tiffany stick pin that came to mind:
Kashmir sapphire, one side is faceted, the other side a high domed sugarloaf cab. Very unique.

Video of the above pin :kiss2:
 
I don't think sharing pictured here will result in a reliable opinion about whether it is synthetic or not. It would be hard to tell in person with a loupe.

If you have a really good jeweler who specialises in coloured stones, who wouldn't mind looking at it then I think maybe take it to them. Otherwise I would settle on accepting it is synthetic and asking what you want to do given this. This way you can be at peace with the decision you make.
 
Oh wow, I didn't get where it was $200. Totally worth keeping, and if the sapphire is natural and not highly treated, that's like a bonus!
 
Oh wow, I didn't get where it was $200. Totally worth keeping, and if the sapphire is natural and not highly treated, that's like a bonus!

Lol yes. That's mainly why I was so excited as it's a visually stunning piece and was very affordable.

She actually had a Buy It Now price that was hundreds more but I didn't want to pay that if I couldn't help it. I was assuming the auction was going to get very close to her BIN number but somehow I scored and was the only bidder so I won it for the entrance price.
 
It's funny, after years of being on PS and having my tastes acquire and mind filled with knowledge of fine gems, I came on here today expecting opinions much different to my own.

I realize now how silly that was as you all see my quandary and there's really only two options.

Since the stick pin is worth the price paid and the seller has been so forthcoming with info and has been so kind to me, I have to say that I'm a little invested in the piece now and I won't be returning it, so thats off the table.

Even if it turns out it's indeed synthetic, at least I can pass it on to someone who adores synthetic gems and natural alike and I won't be losing any money there.

I'm debating sending it in for an AGL brief, but does anyone know what will happen if it is synthetic and they won't write a report on it? Will I get any money back?

Either that & know for certain or settle for the opinions of a few individuals of whom I respect and trust.

I'll need to keep thinking about it. Sending it in feels so tedious but to know for sure would be wonderful....

Will try to remember to come back to update if I get a report!
 
I think its a beautiful pin but for me would not be mind-clean - meaning, I would assume its synthetic or heavily treated by default unless proven otherwise. I could accept this for the price you paid if I loved it enough. But personally, I would return because I prefer to save up more $ for the perfect piece, though everyone buys differently.

Heres some eyecandy... Tiffany stick pin that came to mind:
Kashmir sapphire, one side is faceted, the other side a high domed sugarloaf cab. Very unique.

Video of the above pin :kiss2:

Love that stick pin, and the sapphire is just gorgeous. What a beautiful colour, but oh so $$$$$
 
I’m glad you decided to keep it! It looks beautiful and I can tell it’s already a special piece to you :))

I'm debating sending it in for an AGL brief, but does anyone know what will happen if it is synthetic and they won't write a report on it? Will I get any money back?
Several years ago I bought what I thought was a sapphire ring from Loupe Troop and sent it in for an AGL Gem Brief. It was synthetic and they did still charge me and gave me a laminated “Synthetic Brief” that shows similar details as a Gem Brief would. I am guessing they still would charge you, since they would put the piece through their equipment and take the time to inspect it.
 
I’m so happy you’re going to keep it. I love it and would love to rock that as is or reset into a ring. While it would be nice to know for sure, and one day I imagine you will, it’s still a beautiful stone with a sweet diamond too!! Great find!!
 
No idea/opinion on if it is synthetic or natural, but it is very pretty and a great price just for the gold and diamond.
If you didn’t want to sink the $ into making it into a ring, and you don’t wear stick pins, would you consider making it a pendant? Probably much less $ to take off the pin, add a little loop to the top, and wear it with a chain you already have?
I’m so glad you’re keeping it!
 
No idea/opinion on if it is synthetic or natural, but it is very pretty and a great price just for the gold and diamond.
If you didn’t want to sink the $ into making it into a ring, and you don’t wear stick pins, would you consider making it a pendant? Probably much less $ to take off the pin, add a little loop to the top, and wear it with a chain you already have?
I’m so glad you’re keeping it!

I was picturing it that way too.
 
I did not read through the whole thread, so if I'm repeating what someone else said, my apologies.

Generally speaking, cabochons are not clean. Most are moderately to heavily included. They are not suitable for faceting, so, they’re made into cabochons. This is especially true for Sapphire, Emerald, and Ruby, but other expensive stones too. Inexpensive stones like Amethyst, Citrine, Topaz, and Almandine Garnet can be very clean, but they are very plentiful.

The little bubble like inclusions could be colorless negative inclusions which are quite common to most natural stone species, but it could be synthetic.

The red flag here to me is that the stone is so clean. Cabs normally are not. But if it is very old it could be natural as cabs were very popular years ago. Hard to say.

A good gemologist at a high end jewelry boutique should be able to tell you. This won’t be free though and some charge probably almost the amount that it would cost for a gem brief from the AGL or GIA.
 
I’m glad you decided to keep it! It looks beautiful and I can tell it’s already a special piece to you :))


Several years ago I bought what I thought was a sapphire ring from Loupe Troop and sent it in for an AGL Gem Brief. It was synthetic and they did still charge me and gave me a laminated “Synthetic Brief” that shows similar details as a Gem Brief would. I am guessing they still would charge you, since they would put the piece through their equipment and take the time to inspect it.

Yes, they charge the same.
 
I'm debating sending it in for an AGL brief, but does anyone know what will happen if it is synthetic and they won't write a report on it? Will I get any money back?

I think the gem is confiscated and some guys come to your house. No, it's not like passing a bad $100 bill. :cool2:

I would poke around and get the cheapest lab report (AGL Gem Brief or the like) that would let you distinguish between real and synthetic. At the very least, it will be heated if genuine. In a stickpin (meaning of stickpin-like vintage), it will not be diffused.
 
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