The hypothetical (and potentially very long) educational journey to a ruby ring

[Avondale]

I've had this idea in my mind for a while now - a pretty three stone ring with cushion ruby and trillion diamonds. It's not something I expect to make a reality any time soon (first need to save up at the very least). However, I have 7 more days of quarantine during which I'll be stuck at home with no covid to keep me "entertained" (yay vaccines). I'm bored. I need mental stimulation. And what better mental stimulation than planning and preparing to (maybe) buy a lovely piece of jewellery.

I need your help in this, folks. I don't have the knowledge or experience to do it alone. I'll probably be asking a lot of stupid questions. Please don't throw me out.

Now, I've read here that fine quality rubies are very difficult to find. Also expensive. I don't think I have the budget for a fine quality ruby, so there will have to be some compromise somewhere. But as a starter, let's say I'm eyeing something (very) preferably cushion cut, around the 1ct mark, say 5-6mm in size. In terms of colour, I don't fancy much the pure red ones and actually prefer something a little bit more raspberry-pink-ish. Let me illustrate with pretty pictures.

This:

although beautiful, is not really something I want to wear. Doesn't grab me.

This, on the other hand...

is more what I'm drawn towards.

I very much hope this unwillingness to chase the perfect red will be good for my budget.

And speaking of budget, I'll be very grateful if you can help me figure out what would be a reasonable price for an acceptable not brown and not too dark stone around the 1ct mark. Would help me manage my own expectations and plan accordingly.

Another thing I have on my mind are treatments. Unheated would be out of the question, unless I win the lottery. Heated is pretty straightforward in meaning, so is glass-filled and beryllium diffused. But the in-between: insignificant, minor, moderate residue and so on territory is where I get confused. Some say any residue whatsoever is unacceptable. Others say insignificant residue is trace amounts from the regular heating process and not a cause for concern. What should I be willing to settle for and where do I draw the line?

(And yes, yes, a reputable lab certificate is a must. I know. Not even up for debate.)

 

[VividRed]

If you are serious about rubies, save yourself the hassle and ask a professional, like Inken from Enhoerning Jewelry. You will spend a bit more but with rubies you need to know what you are doing. If you don’t, it’s risky business.

Budget: it’s the other way around, you need to set the limit. Unheated Burmese ruby of 1ct and top color, good cut and eye clean will start at 10-15k and the sky is the limit. Similar quality in Mozambique will be half of that. Hard cap at 8k. Anything above that is theft, period. Low heat brings the price down by 50-60%, high temperature heating with fissure healing brings it down by 60-80%. Beyond that it is a manufactured product, not worth a penny.

The color you want is not considered top in the trade (doesn’t mean it is not nice, I personally love it) so that will save you some money. The challenge is finding it. If you want to start looking online, be aware that pictures, usually taken using phones, are not fair in showing the true colors of a gem. And given the hassle of two-way shipping, especially if done internationally, I strongly recommend you talk to a professional who knows their stuff and can guide you. Inken specializes in Rubies and Sapphires - I bought from her and you can’t go wrong.

Re treatment: it’s up to you. I only buy unheated / untreated, that’s where the value is for me. Treated stones are more affordable and available, but less valuable. It’s a personal preference, and a matter of budget

If you want unheated and Burma, a 1ct ruby with good clarity, shape, brilliance and overall good proportions could cost you 6-8k. If Madagascan or Mozambican, 3-5k tops. Divide by 2-2.5 if heated. Roughly speaking, of course, anyone can charge whatever they want!

Re setting etc: I have no clue, others can chip in

Good luck!

 

[demantoidz]

AJS has quite a few heated burmese rubies. Their price range seems to be around 6.5-8k for 1-1.2ct and 13-17k for 1.3-1.7cts - before their standard 15-20% discounts. Plus a few 1cts at around 1.5-2k (maybe orangey color/darker than ideal/clarity issues). This is more of a (single, but useful) reference point than a recommendation. Sounds like an exciting project.

Buy Natural Loose Burma Ruby Gemstones at AJS Gems

See our stock in rare natural Burma ruby and African ruby, certified by leading gemological laboratories.

www.ajsgem.com

 

[meely]

Hello sounds like a cool project and I like that colour best too! No expert here but I just bought a vintage Burmese ruby ring, the ruby is just over carat so not a million miles from what you are looking at. Anyway one thing that really drew to me towards a Burmese ruby was that I wanted the Florescent glow in the sun that is generally more typical of Burmese rubies. I think the colour that you want is definitely more Burmese as well.

 

[maru8888777]

Have you looked at Ivy New York? They have some beautiful things (priced accordingly, though)...

 

[Avondale]

If you are serious about rubies, save yourself the hassle and ask a professional

That's the plan! Although I probably won't be going with Inken, or any other US vendor in particular. Happen to live on the other side of the planet, far enough from the western market, so I'll probably ask someone local to source a stone for me. Before that, though, I gotta learn! Go into it as prepared and educated as possible.

And speaking of education, the pandemic might've been a blessing because I've found so many resources uploaded and made publicly available in the last couple of years. That thing I was confused about regarding levels of residue in grading reports? Today I found a Gem-A lecture on youtube explaining it all. (I've been watching Gem-A and GIA lectures for a while now, I find them very entertaining.) So now I understand the difference between H only, H(a), H(b) and so on better. I have yet to make a decision on where I'm willing to draw the line, but there's time for that.

If you want to start looking online, be aware that pictures, usually taken using phones, are not fair in showing the true colors of a gem.

I'm definitely keeping it in mind. I am, in fact, looking a lot online because that's the only thing I can do right now. I don't really feel comfortable buying online, though, and especially internationally and outside the EU. I'll have to deal with customs which is one of my biggest nightmares.

Looking online is still helpful, though. I've been saving pictures of colours I like. I see what you mean when you say it will be a challenge to find a stone. There's so few! I've been bookmarking any PS recommended vendor like a madwoman and the amount of rubies I've come across is negligible. At least natural, that is. Lab created material appears to be in abundance.

I even considered it for a bit. Go lab created for all of it. With the savings I could add a necklace and earrings to match the ring. And people here have said that it's better to go for lab created than heavily treated natural. But I think I'll try to find a natural one first. I'm not aiming for perfection. I don't require "the rarest of them all" or top quality. I like earth mined because they're unique. Every stone will have a little something about it that's a little bit different than the next one, be it an inclusion, a barely detectable shift of colour or something else.

I think the colour that you want is definitely more Burmese as well.

Well that's bad news for me. Nothing against Burmese rubies, of course, it's just that I'm very much not willing to pay premium for a location. I don't care where the stone came from as long as it was dug up from the earth somewhere. Fluorescence is something I have yet to explore. There's a Gem-A lecture on it that I'll hit during the weekend. However, as it is a very desirable trait, I imagine it affects the price greatly.

This is more of a (single, but useful) reference point than a recommendation.

And it's a very useful reference, thank you! It definitely looks that with a bit of a compromise I might be able to find something that works for me price-wise. I wonder if the same principle applies for CS as for diamonds in terms of buying shy. If there will be a significant enough price difference between a .97ct and a 1.07 ct.

Have you looked at Ivy New York? They have some beautiful things (priced accordingly, though)...

Just did. And yeah, priced accordingly... or not priced publicly to begin with. Their style is not my cup of tea, though. Pretty, but I prefer more simplistic looks.

 

[VividRed]

I understand you want to get a natural stone instead of a synthetic - the problem is that ruby is so massively overpriced that without a serious budget you are very likely to be disappointed. 95% of rubies are serious garbage and can still cost thousands.

The fact that you want to educate yourself is very good. But nothing will prepare you for the disappointment of opening a gem box with a 2-3k ruby that looks nothing like what you thought it would. That’s why I recommend a professional, but you are free to do as you please, of course

 

[voce]

Have you considered broadening your search to red spinels? That would open up some more options.

 

[LilAlex]

If you are serious about rubies, save yourself the hassle and ask a professional, like Inken from Enhoerning Jewelry.

For that color, you can also ask her about spinel. A raspberry spinel is on my list and I asked Inken a while back but only as a by-the-way. I don't mean an insane neon Jedi spinel but just a sweet very crystal red-pulling-to-raspberry spinel. I saw one by accident and kind of fell in love with it. Not cheap -- but cheap next to a Burma ruby.

EDIT: I see @voce says the same so I am in good company

 

[Avondale]

Have you considered broadening your search to red spinels?

I have and I still haven't made up my mind. I mean, I obviously can't escape from:

95% of rubies are serious garbage and can still cost thousands.

...but I think would still go for a ruby, if I can find a decent one, simply because it's corundum and a bit harder than spinel. I'm aiming for a sturdy ring that I can wear daily without having to worry about breaking it by accidentally bumping it into a handle or something. Tbh that's the reason I'm willing to shell out for diamond side stones. CZ in itself is pretty enough to my eyes, but I know what happened with the eternity silver band that I used to wear all the time back when I was a poor university student and how the stones dulled over time.

With that said, I've seen many gorgeous spinels and some definitely catch my attention, and I can't help but wonder, how is it that they're considered to be rarer than rubies but are still so much more available and with such good quality as well? Almost seems unreal.

 

[Rfisher]

My limited podunk Midwest USA experience 2c

Looking online is still helpful, though. I've been saving pictures of colours I like.

This is helpful in finding out your own tastes - but I felt it was a double edged sword. Finding in pictures to match what you see via naked eye, or only so in a certain specific environment that you aren’t in much. (Hello, downstairs bathroom with old school incandescent light bulbs! )

But I think I'll try to find a natural one first. I'm not aiming for perfection. I don't require "the rarest of them all" or top quality. I like earth mined because they're unique. Every stone will have a little something about it that's a little bit different than the next one, be it an inclusion, a barely detectable shift of colour or something else.

I think it’s pleasant we all have different tastes and budgets to match. My ruby cost thousands of dollars and I’m pretty positive others would consider it ‘garbage’. I’m fine with that.
No one wants to think they’ve been taken advantage of or overcharged. But not all transactions are available to all locales.

I bought rubies over from six reputable vendors and returned five. Over a period of 7+ years I think. Seeing rubies like what found online, local to me, was not going to happen. Some were unheated, some with minor, some moderate amounts of residue. Some silky - some crystalline. I consider the amount I spent in the return process my research on what my eye enjoyed. An investment vs being told by a vendor what they were sending me was what I should be looking for in a ‘nice’ ruby.

I ended up with a 2.9 GIA unheated Tanzania ruby that has noticeable fluorescence, it screams pink in the direct sun. Red! in some lighting. Leans a bit purple in some lighting.
It has inclusions. It’s silky. It has a window. Around 1200 per carat.

Am not quite sure I’d be that much happier in my day to day life with getting 5k/10k+ a carat stone instead. I’ll be ok being ignorant in this!!! I know others around here differ and that’s ok.

I know I couldn’t sell it for what I paid.
But also know that if bought one for 5k+ per carat, I wouldn’t be able to sell it for what I paid, either.

If you look around, shop for what’s available ‘to you’, and buy what your eye enjoys and what you are comfortable with paying, compared to what other stones you see listed for…….

Enjoy the ride.

 

[VividRed]

My limited podunk Midwest USA experience 2c


This is helpful in finding out your own tastes - but I felt it was a double edged sword. Finding in pictures to match what you see via naked eye, or only so in a certain specific environment that you aren’t in much. (Hello, downstairs bathroom with old school incandescent light bulbs! )


I think it’s pleasant we all have different tastes and budgets to match. My ruby cost thousands of dollars and I’m pretty positive others would consider it ‘garbage’. I’m fine with that.
No one wants to think they’ve been taken advantage of or overcharged. But not all transactions are available to all locales.

I bought rubies over from six reputable vendors and returned five. Over a period of 7+ years I think. Seeing rubies like what found online, local to me, was not going to happen. Some were unheated, some with minor, some moderate amounts of residue. Some silky - some crystalline. I consider the amount I spent in the return process my research on what my eye enjoyed. An investment vs being told by a vendor what they were sending me was what I should be looking for in a ‘nice’ ruby.

I ended up with a 2.9 GIA unheated Tanzania ruby that has noticeable fluorescence, it screams pink in the direct sun. Red! in some lighting. Leans a bit purple in some lighting.
It has inclusions. It’s silky. It has a window. Around 1200 per carat.

Am not quite sure I’d be that much happier in my day to day life with getting 5k/10k+ a carat stone instead. I’ll be ok being ignorant in this!!! I know others around here differ and that’s ok.

I know I couldn’t sell it for what I paid.
But also know that if bought one for 5k+ per carat, I wouldn’t be able to sell it for what I paid, either.

If you look around, shop for what’s available ‘to you’, and buy what your eye enjoys and what you are comfortable with paying, compared to what other stones you see listed for…….

Enjoy the ride.

Show us your ruby

 

[Avondale]

I second that. If it's the beautiful stone in your profile picture, that's a lovely colour and not at all far from what I like myself.

Finding in pictures to match what you see via naked eye, or only so in a certain specific environment that you aren’t in much.

Weeeell... I might have something that's a little bit of a cheat sheet:



It's very zoomed in because it's tiny. It's also very difficult to take a picture of because it's so tiny, less than 3mm. It's a dainty necklace that, in its simplicity and utter lack of anything special about it, drew me like a moth to a flame. Completely unintentional purchase, mind you, I was picking out a gift for a family member at the time. The ruby isn't worth anything, but it's this bright blob of colour that remains bright in any light. I want something similar for my ring as well. Worst case scenario, I show this to whoever is sourcing the stone and then wait for the result.

In the meantime, my online browsing for colours I might like is giving me trust issues. This ruby from Yavorskyy:

(which is all "yes please" and "gimme" in the picture) looks like this on video:



Something in the process of shooting it went wrong on multiple levels.

 

[Rfisher]

Show us your ruby

I second that. If it's the beautiful stone in your profile picture, that's a lovely colour and not at all far from what I like myself.

Yes it is in my current avatar. Thank you for the kind words.
I’ve posted these pictures elsewhere here - but have condensed them. Click on the pic to have a clear view. Very representative on my monitor to what I see compared to naked eye.

In the meantime, my online browsing for colours I might like is giving me trust issues. This ruby from Yavorskyy:

(which is all "yes please" and "gimme" in the picture) looks like this on video:



Something in the process of shooting it went wrong on multiple levels.

I think expecting something in between the glamour shot and video would be realistic.
Plus also knowing my environmental sunlight is not very similar to Y’s environmental sunlight.

I know photos are subjective. And monitors vary. But the ‘show me vendor vs your photo’ colored stone thread here is pretty helpful.

 

[VividRed]

Yes it is in my current avatar. Thank you for the kind words.
I’ve posted these pictures elsewhere here - but have condensed them. Click on the pic to have a clear view. Very representative on my monitor to what I see compared to naked eye.




I think expecting something in between the glamour shot and video would be realistic.
Plus also knowing my environmental sunlight is not very similar to Y’s environmental sunlight.

I know photos are subjective. And monitors vary. But the ‘show me vendor vs your photo’ colored stone thread here is pretty helpful.

Very nice and sleepy/glowy. I would call this intense to vivid pinkish red. Not my personal favorite (you can guess which one I like the most ) but very pleasing to the eye - thank you for sharing!

 

[T L]

I will probably never purchase a ruby. I can’t get past the fact you still have to pay potentially thousands for a treated stone. For some of those prices, I rather have a colored diamond, and I’m very happy with my red spinels which satisfy my red stone desires

 

[Avondale]

Ruby knowledgeable folks, if I might open this educational thread once more and ask for your input because I'm a little bit confused about what's going on here.

I've been browsing Multicolour. I've seen it recommended here over and over so I just opened their section of available rubies and started looking through it. Tried to see whether I'd be able to guess which are the finer, more expensive rubies, as well as to see where my colour preference sits price-wise. It's very useful that they disclose all treatments.

And this is where my confusion comes. I've selected these two particular stones because they're very similar in size and shape but I saw other examples all over the place.

1. https://www.multicolour.com/detail/?/details/single/ruby/rb6002ab/&780618695

2. https://www.multicolour.com/detail/?/details/single/ruby/rb10374ac/&780618695


Neither is burmese. 1 is pretty included, 2 is eye clean. Neither is pure red colour. 1 is heat only, 2 is beryllium diffused. And yet, 2 is almost double the price (roughly 370 to 670).

What am I missing here? Does clarity have such a strong effect on price that it would even overshadow beryllium treatment? Considering how this treatment has been spoken of on this board, one's left with the impression that such stones are basically worthless, yet this price tag definitely doesn't say worthless to me. I'm not familiar with Multicolour, I don't know how accurate their pictures and colour descriptions are and, frankly, I feel a little bit lost.

 

[Autumn in New England]

Ruby knowledgeable folks, if I might open this educational thread once more and ask for your input because I'm a little bit confused about what's going on here.

I've been browsing Multicolour. I've seen it recommended here over and over so I just opened their section of available rubies and started looking through it. Tried to see whether I'd be able to guess which are the finer, more expensive rubies, as well as to see where my colour preference sits price-wise. It's very useful that they disclose all treatments.

And this is where my confusion comes. I've selected these two particular stones because they're very similar in size and shape but I saw other examples all over the place.

1. https://www.multicolour.com/detail/?/details/single/ruby/rb6002ab/&780618695

2. https://www.multicolour.com/detail/?/details/single/ruby/rb10374ac/&780618695


Neither is burmese. 1 is pretty included, 2 is eye clean. Neither is pure red colour. 1 is heat only, 2 is beryllium diffused. And yet, 2 is almost double the price (roughly 370 to 670).

What am I missing here? Does clarity have such a strong effect on price that it would even overshadow beryllium treatment? Considering how this treatment has been spoken of on this board, one's left with the impression that such stones are basically worthless, yet this price tag definitely doesn't say worthless to me. I'm not familiar with Multicolour, I don't know how accurate their pictures and colour descriptions are and, frankly, I feel a little bit lost.

Eye clean is a significant upgrade from "moderately to heavily included," so that may indeed be the difference. Also, even the slightest and nuanced shift in hue can dramatically affect the price. Lastly, I wonder if the first stone was heated in the presence of filler? Because, IMO, Be treated rubies like the second stone are highly undesirable. I'd rather have an opaque untreated ruby than an eye clean Be treated stone. But these are both very inexpensive rubies at the end of the day.

 

[Autumn in New England]

In the meantime, my online browsing for colours I might like is giving me trust issues. This ruby from Yavorskyy:

(which is all "yes please" and "gimme" in the picture) looks like this on video:



Something in the process of shooting it went wrong on multiple levels.

I want to talk about Yavorsky for a moment, since you brought up a great point. Has anyone else had the extreme displeasure of finding that the glamour shots of their stones are a far cry from how they look in person? This is a perfect example. If I don't see a vid of their stones first, I won't buy. They all look perfectly brilliant in their photos. I realize nearly all sellers enhance their photos to some degree, but Yavorsky seems to be leading the charge. I was just wondering if this was anyone else's experience too?

 

[Autumn in New England]

Yes it is in my current avatar. Thank you for the kind words.
I’ve posted these pictures elsewhere here - but have condensed them. Click on the pic to have a clear view. Very representative on my monitor to what I see compared to naked eye.




I think expecting something in between the glamour shot and video would be realistic.
Plus also knowing my environmental sunlight is not very similar to Y’s environmental sunlight.

I know photos are subjective. And monitors vary. But the ‘show me vendor vs your photo’ colored stone thread here is pretty helpful.

I absolutely love the vivid contrast between the ruby and tsavorites (?)! I'm also digging the floral sort of vine-like aesthetic!!

 

[Avondale]

Lastly, I wonder if the first stone was heated in the presence of filler?

I did think of that. I'm pretty sure it's not glass filled. If it were, it should cost 37 instead of 370. Multicolour doesn't even list glass filling as possible treatment for their stones so my guess would be they stock none.

Flux healed is a different thing. On one hand, they don't list it as a possibility. On the other, the number of times I've seen heated rubies on sale with certificates that state some amount of residue... But even then, beryllium is supposed to have far greater negative effect on price than flux healing. Which is why my initial guess was that clarity was the culprit. I just didn't expect it to be that important.

 

[demantoidz]

I want to talk about Yavorsky for a moment, since you brought up a great point. Has anyone else had the extreme displeasure of finding that the glamour shots of their stones are a far cry from how they look in person? This is a perfect example. If I don't see a vid of their stones first, I won't buy. They all look perfectly brilliant in their photos. I realize nearly all sellers enhance their photos to some degree, but Yavorsky seems to be leading the charge. I was just wondering if this was anyone else's experience too?

I have noticed this about pics vs videos but at least they were very willing to provide a video and answered questions honestly the one time I considered something from them (I did not buy and see in person).

 

[Autumn in New England]

I did think of that. I'm pretty sure it's not glass filled. If it were, it should cost 37 instead of 370. Multicolour doesn't even list glass filling as possible treatment for their stones so my guess would be they stock none.

Flux healed is a different thing. On one hand, they don't list it as a possibility. On the other, the number of times I've seen heated rubies on sale with certificates that state some amount of residue... But even then, beryllium is supposed to have far greater negative effect on price than flux healing. Which is why my initial guess was that clarity was the culprit. I just didn't expect it to be that important.

I would be surprised too if that first ruby was clarity enhanced and this wasn't disclosed. But without seeing a lab report, who knows. Ruby is so phenomenally expensive in fine grades that even fracture-filled and Be treated stones are still worth something. So $300 and $600 per carat for a treated ruby isn't so crazy. In a world where ruby can reach $1 million per carat, those prices are still exceedingly low. I just can't believe a more included heat-only ruby would be worth half of a Be stone (all things being equal). Because we don't even know if that Be stone is actually a ruby. Under that lattice treatment, it could be colorless corundum! This is why I'd take an opaque or clarity enhanced ruby over a Be diffused stone any day.

 

[Autumn in New England]

I have noticed this about pics vs videos but at least they were very willing to provide a video and answered questions honestly the one time I considered something from them (I did not buy and see in person).

Oh yeah, they're a high-caliber dealer for sure! I've just found their photos to be unreasonably enhanced, and that puts me off.

 

[Rfisher]

I absolutely love the vivid contrast between the ruby and tsavorites (?)! I'm also digging the floral sort of vine-like aesthetic!!

Thank you!
they are teeny demantoids.
the ring is a design from HeartOfWater, unfortunately they have drastically reduced their operations to only local jobs I think.

@Avondale
- only a guess that BE to a bright Red rather than leaning orange might be the cause for a higher price? I dunno?

 

[Autumn in New England]

Thank you!
they are teeny demantoids.
the ring is a design from HeartOfWater, unfortunately they have drastically reduced their operations to only local jobs I think.

@Avondale
- only a guess that BE to a bright Red rather than leaning orange might be the cause for a higher price? I dunno?

Wow, those are the most vibrant demantoids I've ever seen! Lovely!!