The Rules, et al....what do you think?

[sandia_rose]

Our talk about Child Men and my conversation with my BF last night inspired me to start this thread.

First of all, last night, I went over a friend''s house to hang out and (I thought) celebrate. She is the one that I posted about who was expecting a promotion. Turns out, I had my wires crossed wrong - her company is having their Big Luncheon today, not yesterday. I used to work for this company, and they announce Salesperson of the Year and other promotions at the luncheon. So, we just had some wine and BS''d. When I got home at around 11, my phone was ringing-ringing-ringing. BF''s number on my caller ID. We tend to talk late at night, anyway. We talked, and then he said, "Want to come over after work tomorrow?" I reminded him that I had an appointment right after work and then was going over another friend''s to have her do my hair. He said, "Oh......well......we''ll be together all weekend, anyway." We had prior plans to go out of state this weekend to meet up with some friends for x-country skiing, etc. I said, "Well, it will be late when I''m done, and I really need to get my hair squared away. With everything going on lately, I am overdue to take care of me for a change." He seemed disappointed that I wouldn''t come over; you could hear it in his voice. We talked a little more and I told him I was really tired - it was the first time I''d been back at home since leaving for work at 7:30A - and was going to go. So he said, "OK. Well...I guess you gotta do what you gotta do....Catch you tomorrow, then. I love you, Babe. Sleep well."

So then I got to thinking.....hmmm....after two years of "being there" for him and putting him first...I was now unavailable and he seemed disappointed.

This is a blast from the past, but some of you ladies on board that are over 25 might remember it: The Rules. For those of you that don''t know, The Rules were a series of books that talked about how to approach a relationship the old fashioned way (ie - make a man pursue you, be unavailable now and then, don''t call him all the time, etc). I used to think The Rules were BS....but now I am reconsidering.

And I also found this link: http://www.thesweetgirlsguide.bravehost.com/index.html, which is very Rules-y. In reading that, I was almost embarassed at myself. I have been doing EVERYTHING all wrong, according to it. Here I have been, trying to be an equal partner, being understanding, etc.....and that''s apparently encouraged him not to take care of his issues and devalue/not appreciate me in the process. And according to it, having "the talk" with him was "wrong," too - hey, I thought I was showing self-respect and intellegence by doing that. Apparently not. I have always been the type of woman not to "play games" - I am straight-up and will come right out and say it (whatever "it" is at the time). Well...apparently....relationships to men are games.

What do you ladies think of all that? Anyone ever try The Rules? Am I that dense to be even going down this road at my age/stage in the game?

Bridget in Connecticut.

 

[chocolatefudge]

I wouldn''t worry about the way you are, I don''t think playing by the ''rules'' will bring anything good to a relationship. If you are forever acting (for want of a better word) to suit the rules, when do you finally stop and be yourself?
Fair enough, don''t make yourself TOO available at the beginning, it is nice to have an air of mystery BUT once in an established relationship just be yourself and act the way you feel you should, not the way dictated by these ''rules.''

Just my opinion

 

[Delster]

My BF certainly does not view our relationship as a game and would be very hurt if I started to do so. I am also a very straight up kind of woman and if I want something or need something I ask for it. Now I might stew for a day or two to work out my mind but in the end I come straight out with it. I think it's disrespectful to a man to play games with him.

Now, that said, I do not believe it is playing games to take time for yourself, or to not always be available at his beck and call. That's just being independent. And in my book, putting him first doesn't make you a doormat as it doesn't automatically mean he gets to get away with blue murder. And how on earth could being an equal partner with a man make him devalue you?

Some women I know who are about ten years older than me (I'm 2, and both single, recommended those books to me about a year ago. I found it amusing and mentioned it to my BF and told him the basics of how they work and he didn't get it. He was like 'so basically it's pretending to be all independent and I-don't-need-you, as a scam to make a man propose?' Surely the point is to GENUINELY be an independent go-getting 'I-am-AWESOME-and-you-are-LUCKY' woman, rather than faking it? I guess I have no problem with what the rules want you to portray, but I do have a problem with using them in their rigid sense as a front or a scam.

The last thing I'll say is that I would NEVER NEVER NEVER marry a man I had not had 'the talk' with. NEVER.

Hey, since I vaguely remember the rules when they came out first, does that make me old?

 

[Aloros]

*shrugs* To each their own, I suppose. I think what you are doing is different than The Rules, though, in that you are not PLAYING hard to get, you ARE hard to get! You have other things going on in your life, and at this stage of your relationship, you can''t place him as a priority. He hasn''t taken those necessary steps, so you have to guard your heart. I just don''t see that as game-playing, I see it as an honest reaction to the situation.

I also believe in speaking my mind, and so far it''s done well for me. I wouldn''t want to be with someone who''s so into playing "the game" that they''d pass me up because I called them back too soon. Not to toot my own horn, but I think I''m a prize, and I''m perfectly happy on my own, so why would I expend so much energy playing games when I have better things to do?

I feel like tactics like these early on in the relationship can lead to manipulative behavior later. When do you STOP playing? When do you start being completely honest and transparent to one another? When does it end?

I think you did well by telling him exactly where you stand. He knows, you know he knows. If things don''t go the way you''d like them to, at least you can have no regrets if you have to walk away. He knew what he had to do and failed to do it. Not your fault. Seriously though, things like The Rules are what make men say "women are so confusing!".

I say what I think, my FI says what he thinks. Sometimes it leads to disagreements or fights, but at least it''s OUT THERE so the issue can be resolved, one way or another.

I do nice things for my FI, I buy him gifts, and I chase him because I think chasing shouldn''t stop just because we''re committed to one another. And he has never stopped appreciating me. He does the same things for me in return. I feel it brings us closer together and keeps us remembering why we''re still with one another. But if I ever felt I was putting more into our relationship than I was getting out, you can bet he''d be the first to know about it.

In short, do things because you feel like they are the best things for you, not because a book tells you so. I applaud you for doing what a lot of women have problems doing: speaking up and telling your man exactly where you stand!

 

[anchor31]

No offence to you, sandia, and please excuse my language, but I read the page you posted and I think it''s a load of crap. Do you really believe that every man only goes for look? Do you really believe that every man will dump their wife if they become successful? Do you really believe that every man perceives you like a prize and won''t care about you unless you''re some rich model? I don''t. Some men will, sure, but not all, and no you don''t need to be a rich super model for him to be proud to be seen with you. You can''t expect to meet a man who will love you and cherish you if you''re pretending to be someone else. Again, I guess it depends on what kind of man you''re looking for. But if you''re looking for marriage and family, I''m not convinced this is the way to go.

I really detest this kind of pseudo-psychology generalization stuff.

 

[decodelighted]

We''re the same age so I sure do remember "The Rules". A more recent version for dudes is "The Game" or something like that.

THE RULES: *pretend* to be independent and that will raise your value & desirability to a man & make him marry you

THE GAME: *pretend* to be interesting and make women feel bad about themselves so you''re on their level & they''ll put out.

Blech on both counts. I much preferred just *BEING* independent and taking care of MYSELF first -- especially before I was in any sort of committed relationship.

Off topic kinda: I''ve noticed you''ve written many times about your boyfriend''s band. Is it possible you''re a little star-struck by him? Maybe idealizing/idolizing a teensy bit? If so, that could throw off the power dynamic enough that he''d take you for granted ... just a random thought.

 

[FrekeChild]

Hey...I''m 25 and remember "The Rules". I think my mom bought it for me so that I''d break up with my boyfriend. She didn''t like him much. It really wasn''t that long ago that it came out!!

I think that you shouldn''t read it, and just be independent the wonderful woman he fell in love with. Spend 2 days a week with him or set limits if you will, but the ladies above who said to not be fake--don''t be! That''s not why he fell in love with you! I think that if you just take a step back, he''ll take a step forward. And that''s what we''re going for right?

 

[CNOS128]

One of the best parts of my relationship is that neither of us plays games - from very early on, my boyfriend made it clear that he wasn''t a game-player, and I''ve never been very good at pretending to be something I''m not. We both just try to be very honest with each other (even when that results in me crying and him rolling his eyes).

That said, when he wants to see me and I have plans, he does miss me (especially because my extremely hectic schedule only allows us weekends together with the occasional weekday here and there) in spite of always encouraging me to see friends. I think it''s natural to want to spend a lot of time with the people you care about. Actually, I think it''d be odd if your boyfriend were relieved that you had other plans, know what I mean?

I also think that some (many? most?) men tend to be attracted to independent women who have their own stuff going on and don''t need to depend on them for everything. (that''s straight from the horse''s mouth - my boyfriend thinks my more "dependent" friends are pushing their men away, because they''re so smothery).


TheBigT

 

[sandia_rose]

Date: 1/31/2008 1:28:00 PM
Author: anchor31


No offence to you, sandia, and please excuse my language, but I read the page you posted and I think it''s a load of crap. Do you really believe that every man only goes for look? Do you really believe that every man will dump their wife if they become successful? Do you really believe that every man perceives you like a prize and won''t care about you unless you''re some rich model? I don''t. Some men will, sure, but not all, and no you don''t need to be a rich super model for him to be proud to be seen with you. You can''t expect to meet a man who will love you and cherish you if you''re pretending to be someone else. Again, I guess it depends on what kind of man you''re looking for. But if you''re looking for marriage and family, I''m not convinced this is the way to go.

I really detest this kind of pseudo-psychology generalization stuff.

I do, too....but on the other hand, it was enough to make me think/question myself. And I am not a "games" kind of girl or a pretending person. I''m a bad liar and an even worse actress - the "real me" can''t stay hidden too long. I have always believed that "the real me" is what is important. But I really am questioning myself now. Maybe I''m having a bad day or something....

Kind of like something that happened to me in my 20s. I dated this guy for 3 years. Granted, I was younger and really not in any huge hurry to get married. But after 3 years, I didn''t have any idea where the relationship was going. I was head over heels for this guy and thought he was for me, too. So I had the talk with him. And I got a whole line of, "I''m not ready to get married....why can''t we just date....why does this have to go somewhere....yada yada." So I said, "Fine. If you don''t even know what you want or whether or not that''s me or could be me after 3 years, then we''re done." I was basically the same person I am now as far as being upfront, though I''ve learned to be a little softer about it. Well, we went our separate ways....and then I happened to pick up the Sunday paper not even a year later....and whose wedding announcement did I see there? I didn''t know the girl, but her picture clearly showed a bimbo-y Pamela Anderson type that I couldn''t be like if I tried. At the time, it devistated me. I spent 3 years with this guy and he turns around and gets married to Barbie after 7 or 8 months? Granted, there could have been any number of reasons why, but it threw my 20-something mind for a "what''s wrong with me?" loop.

Bridget in Connecticut.

 

[sandia_rose]

Date: 1/31/2008 1:33:20 PM
Author: decodelighted

Off topic kinda: I''ve noticed you''ve written many times about your boyfriend''s band. Is it possible you''re a little star-struck by him? Maybe idealizing/idolizing a teensy bit? If so, that could throw off the power dynamic enough that he''d take you for granted ... just a random thought.

I suppose it''s possible - my best friend asked me the same thing - but I don''t think so. He''s not the first person in a band I''ve dated or have known well. And comparatively, he is not the best-looking or flashiest or even the most talented. In the beginning of our relationship, I think he was surprised that I didn''t fawn all over him because he''s in a band. He is used to that and I think expected it from me. I quickly reminded him (with a wink and a smile, not in a mean way) that he wasn''t all that and a bag of chips....nor the first musician I''d dated:

For example, The Smithereens were big when I was in my 20s. Since all of them lived in NY then, they''d tour CT a lot. And I would go to every show. Every. Single. Show. After this went on for a year or so, they started recognizing me and coming up to talk to me. Most of them at the time were married, so no hanky-panky went on -- but I had dinner with them many times, drinks, hung out backstage, got personal e-mails that talked about music and touring and life (nothing off-board), etc. On one hand, they were this Big Band...but on the other hand, I saw them as friends from the next state over that happened to play music. And going back even further than that, I dated a guy who tried out for Ozzy''s band and who now writes music for movies, TV and video games. However, he was/is a jerk regardless of his talent, so he saw the curb quick! And my guilty pleasure grin-worthy memory: Before they got a record deal and they were touring clubs, I scored a very nice kiss from Dave Mustaine of Megadeth, who back in the day was one of the hottest men I''d ever seen. See: http://megadeth.rockmetal.art.pl/pic/pic_mustaine18.jpg. Boyish but dangerous-looking, not to mention that I''m a redhead who likes redheaded men. He''s in his mid-40s now and still ain''t bad.

Anway, my point is that, while I do like the fact that he''s a musician (I was always attracted to creative men, being a creative woman), it''s not the most important thing about him to me. And it does not excuse any transgressions on his part, either.

Bridget in Connecticut.

 

[sweetjettagirl04]

I haven''t been able to read the whole thing, because I got through this first page and wanted to vomit. The premise that men only want to be with someone because of their looks is totally repulsive to me.

The idea that "I" must be "prestigious" in the following ways, in this order, is absolutely horrible.

1) Beauty
2) Fame
3) Wealth
4) Rank
5) Social popularity
6) Next to last, Intellect
7) Lastly, domestic/homemaking skills

If this is what someone looks for, I''m sorry, but I''d rather be single. Besides, unless you''re famous - none of this really applies - which may be why the homemaking skills is at the bottom of the list.

Or, maybe it bothers me because I''m proud to be a domestic goddess and I''m put off by it being at the end of the list... hmmm.

 

[sweetjettagirl04]

Sandia - from what I''ve learned about you on this board, I would say you''ve got more going for you than what this page is suggesting. Maybe some of the "tricks" would work, in theory, however, I think you (and any other woman with a brain) are smarter and better than the premise of the whole thing. Who wants to be a dumb, rich, trophy wife? I''d rather be poor, happy, and able to speak my mind and know that who I am makes someone happy rather than what I look like/make/how popular I am/etc.

 

[neatfreak]

Sandia, please run away, far away, from "The Rules" or anything else like that. Really any man who falls for that crap isn''t a man worth dating. And IMO any woman who follows that doesn''t have a mind and a life of her own.

 

[JulieN]

when i did "everything wrong," I was madly in love with him. I left, then later he wanted me back. Too late, I''m seeing someone else right now.

Now, I''m detached. And, I love him. But I''m not in love with him.

It''s basically saying, men won''t respect you if they have the upper hand, if they have control. But if YOU have the upper hand, you won''t respect him.

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 1/31/2008 3:31:20 PM
Author: neatfreak
Sandia, please run away, far away, from ''The Rules'' or anything else like that. Really any man who falls for that crap isn''t a man worth dating. And IMO any woman who follows that doesn''t have a mind and a life of her own.

Hmmm. I didn''t really get the impression that Sandia was going to follow "The Rules" but more that it gave her permission to acknowledge her own needs and, as evidenced from last night''s call with her BF, that pulling back & making time for herself had a strangely alluring effect. Counterintuitive. A-ha moment etc.

I agree "The Rules" is bunk though ... maybe check out Why Good Girls Don''t Get Ahead ... instead. Its a career advice book but it really opened my Southern Belle eyes up to Big City tactics and gave me permission to put myself first & speak my mind about things without being so terrified of not being "liked". Well ... that and many other books and a half-decade of therapy.

 

[TravelingGal]

I think the two things a woman needs are self-confidence and wisdom.

If she is self confident, she exudes an amazing beauty, IMHO. She''s well received in social situations. She turns heads.

If she is wise, she can be objective (which a lot of women seem to sorely lack when it comes to relationships). She knows what''s best for her. She can make a dollar stretch a mile and doesn''t need to be wealthy to be rich.

This is a woman who knows how to LIVE her LIFE. And people want to be a part of it.

 

[MoonWater]

Date: 1/31/2008 4:27:07 PM
Author: TravelingGal
I think the two things a woman needs are self-confidence and wisdom.

If she is self confident, she exudes an amazing beauty, IMHO. She''s well received in social situations. She turns heads.

If she is wise, she can be objective (which a lot of women seem to sorely lack when it comes to relationships). She knows what''s best for her. She can make a dollar stretch a mile and doesn''t need to be wealthy to be rich.

This is a woman who knows how to LIVE her LIFE. And people want to be a part of it.

Couldn''t possibly agree more.

 

[sandia_rose]

Date: 1/31/2008 3:55:27 PM
Author: decodelighted


Hmmm. I didn''t really get the impression that Sandia was going to follow ''The Rules'' but more that it gave her permission to acknowledge her own needs and, as evidenced from last night''s call with her BF, that pulling back & making time for herself had a strangely alluring effect. Counterintuitive. A-ha moment etc.

I agree ''The Rules'' is bunk though ... maybe check out Why Good Girls Don''t Get Ahead ... instead. Its a career advice book but it really opened my Southern Belle eyes up to Big City tactics and gave me permission to put myself first & speak my mind about things without being so terrified of not being ''liked''. Well ... that and many other books and a half-decade of therapy.

That''s exactly what I was thinking! Not so much that I was thinking of following The Rules, but more that my BF''s reaction made me think about what I''ve been doing lately.....and the fact that my brain drifted back to The Rules.

One of my problems is that I''ve been a businesswoman for most of my adult working life. I am talking about running a department, having high level jobs where I''ve been the only woman at my level and having to prove to "the boys" that I had a right to be there, spending years learning NOT to do what a lot of women instinctively do at work (ie - not be too chummy with others or they won''t respect you, not bursting into tears when criticized or challenged, etc.). And I wonder sometimes if my business head interferes with my having a relationship.

Men say that they feel pressured and threatened if a woman cries, makes ultimatums, etc. Well, during my discussion with my BF on Monday, he said at one point, "You''re too business-like," to which I replied, "I have worked with men my entire life, and I learned quickly that emotion and crying cause men to shut down when you''re trying to talk about something important. This is important, so I am sticking to facts only." And he said, "Well, that''s true....but it still catches me off-guard." To which I replied, "Well, there really isn''t a middle ground. If you''d like me to scream and throw things at you like your ex-wife did, I suppose I can learn to do that...."

Anyway, I''ve read a lot of business books for women. One of the best is by Gale Evans, who''s worked at CNN. It''s called "Play Like A Man, Win Like A Woman." Its smart, practical and just a great book: http://www.amazon.com/Play-Like-Man-Win-Woman/dp/076790463X/ref=pd_sim_b_title_2


Bridget in Connecticut.

 

[HollyS]

Date: 1/31/2008 2:56:20 PM
Author: sweetjettagirl04
I haven''t been able to read the whole thing, because I got through this first page and wanted to vomit. The premise that men only want to be with someone because of their looks is totally repulsive to me.

The idea that ''I'' must be ''prestigious'' in the following ways, in this order, is absolutely horrible.

1) Beauty
2) Fame
3) Wealth
4) Rank
5) Social popularity
6) Next to last, Intellect
7) Lastly, domestic/homemaking skills

If this is what someone looks for, I''m sorry, but I''d rather be single. Besides, unless you''re famous - none of this really applies - which may be why the homemaking skills is at the bottom of the list.

Or, maybe it bothers me because I''m proud to be a domestic goddess and I''m put off by it being at the end of the list... hmmm.

Not that these two things are related, but that kind of bullcrap (The Rules) brings to mind the absolute idiocy of the women on ''Real Housewives of Orange County''.

And, if you look carefully, the men are not at all happy with their over-groomed, nasty little b***hes. Some look hen-pecked and confused; others have stopped even liking their wives. Well, they bought the trophy wife and it is costing them dearly.

 

[HollyS]

Date: 1/31/2008 4:27:07 PM
Author: TravelingGal
I think the two things a woman needs are self-confidence and wisdom.

If she is self confident, she exudes an amazing beauty, IMHO. She''s well received in social situations. She turns heads.

If she is wise, she can be objective (which a lot of women seem to sorely lack when it comes to relationships). She knows what''s best for her. She can make a dollar stretch a mile and doesn''t need to be wealthy to be rich.

This is a woman who knows how to LIVE her LIFE. And people want to be a part of it.

You are wise beyond your years.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 1/31/2008 5:28:04 PM
Author: HollyS

Date: 1/31/2008 4:27:07 PM
Author: TravelingGal
I think the two things a woman needs are self-confidence and wisdom.

If she is self confident, she exudes an amazing beauty, IMHO. She''s well received in social situations. She turns heads.

If she is wise, she can be objective (which a lot of women seem to sorely lack when it comes to relationships). She knows what''s best for her. She can make a dollar stretch a mile and doesn''t need to be wealthy to be rich.

This is a woman who knows how to LIVE her LIFE. And people want to be a part of it.

You are wise beyond your years.

But Holly, I think on PS, I qualify as a "fogie."

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 1/31/2008 5:11:09 PM
Author: sandia_rose
Well, during my discussion with my BF on Monday, he said at one point, ''You''re too business-like,'' to which I replied, ''I have worked with men my entire life, and I learned quickly that emotion and crying cause men to shut down when you''re trying to talk about something important. This is important, so I am sticking to facts only.'' And he said, ''Well, that''s true....but it still catches me off-guard.''

Interesting. Maybe he''s intimidated by how capable you are -- as in, how you''ve been doing a lot for him that he gets frustrated doing etc... (or his ex gets frustrated doing)

One thing I''ve realized is that men really need to feel "needed". (IMHO) Maybe another thing you can explore is reaching out to HIM to do things for you. Things he excels at.

Re: the "You''re too business-like" ... he may be asking for more emotion, for you to demonstrate the way you feel about him in a more traditionally feminine way. I wouldn''t say do anything that changes who you are but pay attention to what he''s asking for. Maybe there''s a part of yourself yearning to be less businesslike ... to have permission to do that. To be more intimate. Just food for thought. I still think its important to demonstrate your independence -- but when you ARE together maybe the next step in your relationship isn''t moving in together, but testing out some mutual emotional intimacy. As long as its reciprocated.

Again - I don''t believe any of this is "game play" ... but, instead, a genuine attempt to meet your needs & his needs without compromising who you really are.

 

[Pandora II]

I think The Rules go overboard on a lot of things, and I don't think it will get a man to marry you.

But, I do think a lot of what it says is a very good way of protecting yourself at the start of a potential relationship - and I will say that after years of the 'wrong' relationships, I started applying the rules fairly firmly - was a bit of a pain that they were the same ones my mother had trying to convince me of for years.

I've bought the book for several of my friends who have also found that it has helped weed out the good from the bad pretty quickly.

I wait for men to call me, I don't call them. If they don't call, they didn't lose your number - they're just not that into you.

If they want to take me out at the weekend, but don't ask me before Thursday evening - I have a life and I'm busy.

I don't see it as playing games at all. If a man is interested, he will call and he will make advance plans. If he doesn't, he isn't interested and you won't do yourself any favours by chasing him.

It's all about maintaining your self-respect. Something we are not all so good at in this day and age when we have so much more freedom.

Once you have moved past the opening stages of a relationship, I don't think they are necessary. But it is always important to make sure you are an independent person and have your own interests and friends and don't make yourself totally available 24/7.

As Kahlil Gibran wrote in The Prophet:

"And stand together, yet not too near together.
For the pillars of the temple stand apart,
And the oak tree and the cypress
grow not in each other's shadow."

One of the really important things I did learn was that it was okay to say no, that if a man was interested he wouldn't hate me or leave.

I had quite bad self-esteem issues, and maybe they are more useful for people who do. I mean, I used to turn people down for dates because I would feel that if they put up with my company for the evening I would have to compensate them in someway.

I think a lot of girls know that they are valuable people and already act in the ways that I had to learn.

 

[bee*]

Date: 1/31/2008 12:37:58 PM
Author:sandia_rose

Here I have been, trying to be an equal partner, being understanding, etc.....and that''s apparently encouraged him not to take care of his issues and devalue/not appreciate me in the process. And according to it, having ''the talk'' with him was ''wrong''

I really don''t agree with "the rules" or anything like that and that page that you posted is awful! If D only went for a woman like that, then he''d be hitting the high road. You don''t have to follow anything like that. The reason that I quoted the above sentence is that I don''t think you were being an equal partner-you were doing TOO much for him. He didn''t seem to give enough back to you. Once that is sorted things should be better in your relationship. Don''t play games for the sake of it. If you have something to do then do it, but don''t not meet up with him if you don''t. If you need something done, then tell him. There is no way my big gob would stay quiet long enough if I was doing "the rules". I believe that relationships will succeed more with honestly over games.

 

[ladypirate]

I won''t go into my diatribe on the rules...I think I did that a month or two ago on that marriage psychology thread, but suffice to say, I think they are AWFUL.

Basically it''s for the same reason others have brought up--I''d much rather be a smart, independent woman who has a ton going on in her life than someone who has to pretend to have stuff going on just to trap a man.

In any case, I think that being yourself is the absolute most important thing, and that''s what you''re doing. You want to make sure he loves you for you, and from the sounds of it, he certainly does. I do agree with Deco, though, that sometimes men like to feel needed. I don''t think it''s a matter of giving up your independence, or anything along those lines--I''d follow Deco''s advice and just make sure you treat him as an equal who yes, is lucky to have you, but also whom you''re lucky to have.

 

[Patiently_Waiting]

Date: 1/31/2008 6:31:44 PM
Author: ladypirate
I won''t go into my diatribe on the rules...I think I did that a month or two ago on that marriage psychology thread, but suffice to say, I think they are AWFUL.

Basically it''s for the same reason others have brought up--I''d much rather be a smart, independent woman who has a ton going on in her life than someone who has to pretend to have stuff going on just to trap a man.

In any case, I think that being yourself is the absolute most important thing, and that''s what you''re doing. You want to make sure he loves you for you, and from the sounds of it, he certainly does. I do agree with Deco, though, that sometimes men like to feel needed. I don''t think it''s a matter of giving up your independence, or anything along those lines--I''d follow Deco''s advice and just make sure you treat him as an equal who yes, is lucky to have you, but also whom you''re lucky to have.

Well said! I agree with everything wholeheartedly.

 

[FrekeChild]

Instead of "The Rules" can we look to "He's Just Not That Into You" instead. I'm not saying that he's not into because he very much is, but the writers have some good advice on being an independent woman and finding a man that is worthy of you. For me it made me take an honest look at my relationships and evaluate whether or not I was happy, and whether or not he truly wanted to be with me. Perhaps you should take a look at that instead of reading this Rules cr4p. IMHO.

LMAO at the reference to "Real Housewives of the OC" or whatever it's called.

ETA: I think you're right Ladypirate!

 

[Independent Gal]

T''Gal, that''s about my favourite post ever.

Oh so true.

I might add that, while Pandora may be right about those two things at the beginning of a relationship, I think in the long run you get the guy you ''played'' for. So if you follow these ''Rules'' you''ll attract the kind of guy who wants you to be a beautiful rich famous chick. If you are wise and confident and you be yourself, you will attract a guy who wants a wise, confident woman who is able to really be herself.

Take your pick!

I''ll say that if I had been anything other than clear, honest, and open about myself and my feelings consistently since our relationship became serious, FI would not have wanted to marry me.

So here''s what I say about these ''rules''.

 

[Haven]

Date: 1/31/2008 1:15:53 PM
Author: Delster

The last thing I''ll say is that I would NEVER NEVER NEVER marry a man I had not had ''the talk'' with. NEVER.

What is "the talk"? I remember when The Rules became popular, but I never read the book so I''m not familiar with it. But now I''m intrigued--Del, wanna shed some light?

That being said, I don''t think playing any sort of game or altering your behavior in any sort of way in order to persuade a man to want to marry you will ever result in a good thing. I agree that independent, confident women are more attractive, but come on, ladies, even if you are dating a man who can''t see right through an act and realize that you''re just pretending to be these things, is this a man you''d want to marry? I think not.

Be yourself, Sandia, unaffected and purely real. A man should love that about a woman.