The Wisconsin Primary

[perry]

Is going to be interesting....

A little background.

Wisconsin has an open primary on Feb 19. You do not have to declare yourself as a member of any party to vote - and you can vote for whom you think should be president from either party (you do only get to vote for only one canidate for each office).

Or if you feel one party is in good hands... who you would like to see from the other party on the ticket (be that from a perspective of this would be the most acceptable person - to this would be the one easist for a desired canidate to beat).

What is exciting for me... is that the Wisconsin primary will really count this national election; and their are real choices to be made between the Presidential canidates....

I believe that Wisconsin is the only state left with an open primary. The system evolved because Wisconsin has a very strong and very large independent group of voters - who actually control the outcome of the elections. The state Democratic or Republican party leadership all acknowledge that - and the key to winning a race is in winning the independent voters. Once the Democratic National party forced a closed democratic primary on the state over the strong objections of all state democratic leaders .... and the results were so devastating for the Wisconsin democrats that the national party restored the allowance for an open primary in Wisconsin (otherwise I don''t think there would even be a viable Democratic party left in this state).

I have no idea who I will vote for at this time - but am really excited to find that I really need to study the canidates and decide - really decide - whom to vote for in this primary.

How about the other Wisconsinites on this forum... Are you excited on the possibilities presented here.

Perry

 

[AGBF]

Date: 2/10/2008 2:08:30 PM
Author:perry

I believe that Wisconsin is the only state left with an open primary.

At the time you posted this, perry, I had never voted in a Virginia primary election. I am originally from Connecticut and, of course, voted in many primaries there over the years. I have not lived in Virginia for long enough to vote in anything other than general elections, however. When you posted about Wisconsin being the only state left with an open primary I had no knowledge of Virginia with which to refute your remark. I now know, however, that in Virginia voters can vote for either party. A voter must make his choice of which party''s election in which he wishes to participate after he has been checked out as a valid voter. He is then given a color coded card for whichever party''s election in which he decides to participate that day. He presents the card and is directed to a voting booth with that party''s candidate''s on the ballots and he votes on it, then he leaves and gets his sticker saying he has voted. Voting this way was a new and interesting experience for me.

Deborah

 

[neatfreak]

Yes. I''m excited! Should be interesting...and certainly exciting for Wisconsin.

 

[perry]

AGBF: Actually, the Wisconsin system is more open than that even.

We don''t have to declair a party at all - at any time.

There is one voting booth, one ballot with both parties on it (and all local & state races too).

I can vote for one presidential canidate. Lets say I vote for a democratic one.

Then, I could vote for republican state position, and perhaps an independent (yes we get those - and they even win elections) for a local office.

I am not sure what the state and local races are at the moment. I''m not sure there are any state races, but believe there are a few county and local ones. I''ve got time to look at that.

Neatfreak & others:

Yes, for the first time in years I''m excited. I have been studying the choices (at least amoung likely winners). At this point I would like to see the presidential race betwen Oboma and McCain. I''m not totally happy with either one... and not sure who I would vote for in the end. But I believe that a race between those two would produce the best results for the country. I would like both canidates to more fully explain some of their positions - and see how it matches with their past performance. I would really like someone who adopted certain positions that Oboma has and certain positions that McCain has. Of course - others would want someone who adopted the positions that I would toss from each of them...

I personally have no interest in Clinton and believe that would be a big mistake.

Perry

 

[neatfreak]

It is interesting Perry and rather strategic. Love it.

For example, all the Republicans who just detest Clinton can vote for Obama instead as McCain basically has the GOP race locked, even though they're registered Republicans. I think it's fantastic that there are really no party lines. It's great.

 

[perry]

The issue in Wisconsin is that the vast majority of the state voters consider themselves independents who will vote for the best canidate....

I do not know the current numbers as the parties do not say how many people claim to be members... but the last time I saw numbers was when the democratic party closed the primary (in the mid 80''s); and at that time in the range of 80% of the wisconsin voters would not register as either a democrat or republican. Many of these voters also severely punished the democratic party for taking their choice away.... After a few years of that the national democratic party relented and allowed Wisconsin to continue its previous open primary system.

One of the more interesting things about party registration... In general, and for decades, nationwide about twice as many people have registred as a democrate compared to the number of people who register as a republican. Yet, republicans routinely win elections. From Ronald Regan to GWB. Many congresional and state races as well. Now why is that? What does that say about the meanings of being registered for a political party. I have yet to hear the democratic party explain why in a state with twice as many registered democrates that a republican canidate wins soundly.... election after election.

Just an interesting observation, and question.

Perry

 

[perry]

I missed the obvious flip question concerning party registration and vote results:

Why is it that the republican party cannot register sufficient people such that the amount of registration is representative of the vote results.

I admit that there are obviously differences between the two parties - and do note that they do not stand for what they originally stood for decades ago.

But, it is just one of those interesting questions on how come the ratio or registered voters between parties does not correlate to election results.

Have a great day,

Perry

 

[AGBF]

Date: 2/13/2008 11:01:41 PM
Author: perry

Actually, the Wisconsin system is more open than that even.

There is one voting booth, one ballot with both parties on it

This is an entirely different concept, perry. I have been meaning to get back here and post that, but it has taken me a few days since I read it. I really like the way Wisconsin does its primary! Keep us informed about your own experience at the polls so that we can live vicariously through you!

Deb

 

[surfgirl]

I''m not sure what''s so unique about this? I''m pretty sure in CA we can vote any way we want to in a primary. During the recent voting, I could have voted for any party in any category...?

 

[MoonWater]

In Maryland if you are a registered Democrat you can only vote in the Democrat primary. If you are a Republican, only in the Republican primary. If you are independent, you''re SOL. My bf is an Indy and he wanted to change to Demo just so he could vote for Obama but he wasn''t allowed. He would have had to change his party affiliation by Nov of last year.

 

[LAJennifer]

Date: 2/16/2008 2:27:45 PM
Author: surfgirl
I''m not sure what''s so unique about this? I''m pretty sure in CA we can vote any way we want to in a primary. During the recent voting, I could have voted for any party in any category...?

Nope. Replicans get a Republican ticket, Dems get a Democrat ticket. However, Independents can request either an Independent or Democrat ticket.

 

[~*Alexis*~]

I am from WI and I just moved to MD. I must say I thought I could vote for whomever I wanted and I would not have to worry about it since thats the way that I have always done it, however, I do consider myself a democrat, I still want to vote for whomever I feel is the best canidate whether they are dem or not.

Thats the way that I think all elections should be. Vote for who you want reguardless of your affiliation.

Although WI only has 11 electoral votes, I still think its weird that everyone is so concerned with the primary. We are not a state that is a major playing in the election like CA, NY, FL or IA.

 

[perry]

Report from the polling station...

I voted late this morning on the way to work (I worked a short day today).

Polls were a lot more busy than normal for late morning.

Just as predicted: 1 ballot covered both parties. Democrats down one side, Republicans down the other. No local races in my town (although south of here had a primary for Mayor - and I understand some state representatives had primaries in parts of wisconsin).

The nice thing is that we can vote for either, or any, party for each office.

It will be a few more hours before we have any real clue how this all turns out - and a few more hours after that before things are really solid.

Normally it takes to about 11:30 PM before we have most precints reporting - I have spent enough years listening to the returns to know that. For some reason I find election results fascinating (how things play out and different parts of the state shifts things) and I pay attention to the results untill things are really well known.

I know what I am doing this evening.

Perry

 

[AGBF]

Date: 2/19/2008 7:43:10 PM
Author: perry


I know what I am doing this evening.

I''m waiting for the results tonight, too, perry.


Deb

 

[~*Alexis*~]

looks like Obama won in Wisconsin...interesting since everyone I know voted for Clinton....hmmmm......

 

[perry]

Dang... I lost my full post due to a posting error.. Here is part of it.

At 9:15 31% Reporting: Obama @ 56% Clinton @ 43%

These results do not include Milwaukee or Madison. The results could swing substantially yet.

Perry

 

[perry]

This is stunning...

last results before I go to bed shortly:

With 75% of the precints reporting: Obama appears to have won every county in Wisconsin. Every county. No one even knows if that has ever happened before, ever.

Exit poll reports also indicate that Obama won every group they were tracking too (even older white women).

Current results show Obama at 57%, Clinton at 42% - a 15% spread.

Just yesturday Clinton and others were talking about it being too close to call (less than 3% difference) and perhaps even a win.

Clinton did not just loose Wisconsin - She got tromped.

She is now claiming that she never expected to win Wisconsin. That may be true. But, she never expected these results either.

Wisconsin was susposed to be largly made up of her core groups: White, blue collar, union, large % of populaton in much of the state on the lower income spectrum... and she lost in every county. Wow.

Well off to bed now. Its been fun.

Perry

 

[MoonWater]

Date: 2/19/2008 11:30:59 PM
Author: perry


She is now claiming that she never expected to win Wisconsin.

Her and Bill always say this. And I just love how she goes about as if those little states just don''t matter.

 

[AGBF]

Date: 2/19/2008 11:30:59 PM
Author: perry


Well off to bed now. Its been fun.

Fun for those who are not ardent supporters of Hillary Clinton!


Deb

 

[perry]

Date: 2/20/2008 4:27:47 AM
Author: AGBF

Date: 2/19/2008 11:30:59 PM
Author: perry


Well off to bed now. Its been fun.

Fun for those who are not ardent supporters of Hillary Clinton!


Deb

Deb: Not exactly. I have significant questions about Obama: What I find interesting about every election is not just how I voted and who I support... But how things play out. For decades I have stayed up past 11 every election night and followed results just to see how things play out. Sometimes my canidate wins - sometimes they loose; but, it is always very interesting. Yesturday I talked several people into voting. Only one asked what I thought of the canidates - and I, after some prodding, told them (and my reasons). I don''t really care who people vote for (I do, but that is the lessor concern) - I care about people voting - and voting for who they believe in.

Note final results in the next post.

Perry

 

[perry]

Final results as of 4:30 AM

99.99% reporting:

Over 1.1 Million people cast votes in the Democratic primary:

Obama 58%
Clintion 41%
Edwards 1%

Obama beat Clintion by a 17% Spread, and it appears in every county of the
state and in every demographic group - which is stunning no matter from
which perspective you look at it.

Over 400,000 people cast votes in the Republican primary:

McCain 55%
Huckabee 37%
Paul 5%
Romney 2%
Giuliani 1%
Thompson 1%

Thus over 1.5 million people voted.

By and large Wisconsin is an state of independent voters (such as I) - with a totally open primary system (see above post on how it works here).

A more realistic look at the results would say that there are really several hundred thousand Democrates and several hundred thousand Republicans in this state who voted; and the vast majority (on the order of a Million or so) of the voters were really independents - voting for who they thought should be on the ticket in the fall.

Perry

 

[perry]

A correction:

It appears that some of the national polling agencies were tracking a split in one demographic split that I was not last night:

The sources I used last night only tracked Women over and under 50.

I understand now that some tracked Seniors (which I believe to be women over 65). Apparently, in this class - Senior Women: Clinton led by 5%.

My information is that Obama won in all Woman over 50 (not by much something like 50.5% to 49.5%) - which includes those over 65.

This says something about how the people between 50 and 65 voted, or possibly low numbers of Women over 65 who voted compared to those between 50 and 65; or a combination of both factors.

Perry

 

[FrekeChild]

Date: 2/14/2008 8:06:07 AM
Author: perry
The issue in Wisconsin is that the vast majority of the state voters consider themselves independents who will vote for the best canidate....

I do not know the current numbers as the parties do not say how many people claim to be members... but the last time I saw numbers was when the democratic party closed the primary (in the mid 80''s); and at that time in the range of 80% of the wisconsin voters would not register as either a democrat or republican. Many of these voters also severely punished the democratic party for taking their choice away.... After a few years of that the national democratic party relented and allowed Wisconsin to continue its previous open primary system.

One of the more interesting things about party registration... In general, and for decades, nationwide about twice as many people have registred as a democrate compared to the number of people who register as a republican. Yet, republicans routinely win elections. From Ronald Regan to GWB. Many congresional and state races as well. Now why is that? What does that say about the meanings of being registered for a political party. I have yet to hear the democratic party explain why in a state with twice as many registered democrates that a republican canidate wins soundly.... election after election.

Just an interesting observation, and question.

Perry

Here in New Mexico what happens is that some Republicans register as Democrats so they can vote in the Democratic Primary for the candidate they think has the weakest shot at it. Then they vote for the Republicans when the general election comes around. Messed up but true.