Thoughts on red spinel

[agc]

Thoughts on this red spinel which is 2.2 ct and described as vivid rich open pure red burmese spinel? Secondary colors? Tone
? It is being sent in for me to examine this week.

 

[LilAlex]

Looks hard to argue with. Small table and mixed cut (?). Either a small window or a big culet or a super-shallow taper (?) in that last course of step cuts. Dimensions would help me interpret the tone a little.

As always, it comes down to price and how close it aligns with your expectations.

 

[agc]

Looks hard to argue with. Small table and mixed cut (?). Either a small window or a big culet or a super-shallow taper (?) in that last course of step cuts. Dimensions would help me interpret the tone a little.

As always, it comes down to price and how close it aligns with your expectations.

7.1 x 7.0 mm. Don't have depth. Few different views.

 

[LilAlex]

7.1 x 7.0 mm. Don't have depth. Few different views.

I hate when vendors do not share the depth. Looks fairly deep -- but hard to say at that angle. Not a deal-breaker but will face up a little small for carat-weight (12+ years on this site so I know you know that ).

 

[agc]

It is all hard to tell from photos and with the difference in monitors. I do think the last course is shallow and not a window but I will see when it comes in. Thanks.

 

[VividRed]

I think it will look more earthy in person and will brown out in low light environments.

I recognize the vendor and saw the price. In my opinion it is a tad too expensive, even with the 20% discount you will most certainly get. The clarity, which is extremely good, is bumping up the price. I prefer when color does that but it’s a matter of preference.

It’s a beautiful color, but not the bright open vivid red you might expect. Luckily this vendor has a great return policy so you are not taking real risks here

Let us know how you see it and what you decide to do!

 

[Ionysis]

Given the lighting environment the photos were taken in I think you will find this much darker to the eye in person. It depends if that is what you’re looking for. My personal taste runs more to a raspberry red. Whilst I agree it does look rather deep at least you then avoid a window.

 

[agc]

Appreciate the comments. I will look at it in various lights and see how it performs. Will let you know how it turns out.

 

[T L]

Looks like a pyrope garnet.

 

[musicloveranthony]

I have a feeling that it might have some unpleasant brown or orange undertones. It's also deeply cut with angles that will probably make it look darker than it would with better angles

 

[Niel]

I agree I think it’ll it’ll be more brown in person

 

[agc]

I will know soon and will try and capture it with photos and post.

 

[fredflintstone]

All this above is pure speculation. My thoughts are not quite the same about this stone as the others, but I will not speculate on color & tone. It will not have a window though & I think could be quite brilliant in person. That is as far as I will go, other than to say I hope it is everything you want and more.

 

[agc]

Well the verdict is in and the tone is indeed too dark. It is definitely pure red.
Inside with incandescent light
View attachment 869011
outside sunlight



outside shade

 

[chrono]

I am sorry the extinction ate up the entire spinel.

 

[agc]

Thanks. I will keep looking.

 

[fredflintstone]

Yes, the extnction is bad in the stone. It has nothing to do with tone and everything to do with cut. The cut is not returning light. Of course, depending on the light, extinction can look better or worse. Strong light tends to make the extinction look worse.

Deep ct stones can either give you two results, extinction or lot of brilliance. In this case, you got extinction.

 

[fredflintstone]

I do have to add though, shoved deep down between your fingers, the stone can look more extinct than it is, as there is no light going through the sides & bottom of the stone, unlike a prong setting. Your skin is touching the stone creating dark areas too.

Finger pictures are not always the best way to show a stone in a photograph & the camera can be part of the problem blocking out light that could reach the stone. You put something close in front of anything, it will block light.

A good experiment is to walk outside in sunlight. Hold the stone so the sunlight hits it directly, away from your body. Then hold the stone directly in front of your body and you will see with your own eyes the extinction that will appear as your body is blocking out the light. The stone is in the shadow of your body.

 

[agc]

I did indeed look at it in sunlight between forceps and it was improved but still had too much extinction. I made sure head and camera did not block light which was a chore getting it. Pavillion angles just not right. Also, had a small window.

 

[fredflintstone]

I did indeed look at it in sunlight between forceps and it was improved but still had too much extinction. I made sure head and camera did not block light which was a chore getting it. Pavillion angles just not right. Also, had a small window.

I'm sure it did.

But you will alwys block light taking pictures oustside on a sunny dy. No way around it if your holding the stone with your hand. Best to do it in the shade or a cloudy day. Diffused light is best. As direct sunlight can and does close the color up on most gemstones, but not all... Just to much light.

 

[T L]

Well the verdict is in and the tone is indeed too dark. It is definitely pure red.
Inside with incandescent light
View attachment 869011
outside sunlight



outside shade

When a modifier like brown overtakes a stone’s hue and saturation, it really isn’t “pure red.”

 

[fredflintstone]

When a modifier like brown overtakes a stone’s hue and saturation, it really isn’t “pure red.”

There is no brown in that stone, just extinctin.

 

[bright&shiny]

Such an informative thread - thank you (all of you)!

 

[T L]

There is no brown in that stone, just extinctin.

Respectfully disagree. There’s both brown and extinction.

 

[VividRed]

There is no brown in that stone, just extinctin.

I respectfully disagree, I see brown in the vendor pictures already. OP’s pictures just confirm it.

 

[fredflintstone]

Even the OP said seeing the stone in person it was pure red.

I see no brown in the flashes of color that is not obscured by the extinction and the dark areas where the OP's skin is making contact with the stone. Maybe it is your monitors. Graded many of stone, but of course in person, which is the only true way to grade a stone. But again, I see no brown in the OP's pictures. Respectfully.

 

[fredflintstone]

I respectfully disagree, I see brown in the vendor pictures already. OP’s pictures just confirm it.

I see no brown modifier in the vendor pictures either. I see a slight orange overtone and brown is a dark shade of orange. I see extinction & the camera making dark areas on the stone that could be construed as brown, but this is extinction and extinction brought on by the reflection & blocking of light by the camera.

Also, the angle of the pictures comes in to play here to making areas look darker. After taking thousands and thousands of gemstone pictures you will always have this to a certain degree more or less. Also, white backgrounds can make many stones look darker, more shadowed, and can be deceiving. I see all of this here with the vendors pictures.

 

[fredflintstone]

 

[fredflintstone]

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What Does the GIA Colored Gem Grading Code Mean? - Gem Society

The GIA grading system describes gem color in terms of hue, tone, and saturation. Learn what the abbreviations and numbers of this gem grading code signify.

www.gemsociety.org

Saturation Values​

The second number in the color gem grading code stands for the saturation, or intensity, of the gem’s hue. This value can range from 1 to 6. However, unlike tone, the meaning of this value differs somewhat depending on the hues. Warm hues, such as red, orange, and yellow, become shades of brown as their saturation decreases. Cool hues, like blue and violet, become progressively more gray as their saturation decreases.

• Saturation terms for warm colors: 1 = Brownish, 2 = Slightly Brownish, 3 = Very Slightly Brownish, 4 = Moderately Strong, 5 = Strong, 6 = Vivid.
• Saturation terms for cool colors: 1 = Grayish, 2 = Slightly Grayish, 3 = Very Slightly Grayish, 4 = Moderately Strong, 5 = Strong, 6 = Vivid.

 

[T L]

These photos definitely show more brown, more than the other photo you reposted, but I see brown in that one too. Maybe it is the monitors, but that is what I see. By the way, it’s very rare to see a pure red stone, almost all red stones have a secondary hue of pink or orange. I added a more pure red gem so one can see the difference.