Thoughts on SI1 and navigating clarity/color tradeoff

[philodendron]

First time poster here! I am early in the process of making a custom diamond ring and want to get your input before going in to see a couple stones my jeweler selected that land within my price range. In short, I am making a three stone round diamond ring in platinum with a planned ~1.5ct center. I had envisioned at least G color and at least VS2 clarity. The current options from my jeweler are both excellent cut a) F SI1 and b) H VS2. I don't yet have pics or certificates.

What should I bear in mind when considering the F SI1 stone? I have otherwise been in the "VS2 or better" camp and want to make sure I am getting a reasonable price and thinking critically. (And I feel like a snob for saying this, but I can't shake the idea that a good diamond should be at least a VS2. Talk me down if you can!) I will try to strongly consider the H VS2 as well but worry that I am pretty sensitive to color and may be unable to unsee the contrast with the F.

Tl;dr -- How do I know if an SI1 is a good stone I won't regret, versus what should I keep holding out for?

 

[oncrutchesrightnow]

First time poster here! I am early in the process of making a custom diamond ring and want to get your input before going in to see a couple stones my jeweler selected that land within my price range. In short, I am making a three stone round diamond ring in platinum with a planned ~1.5ct center. I had envisioned at least G color and at least VS2 clarity. The current options from my jeweler are both excellent cut a) F SI1 and b) H VS2. I don't yet have pics or certificates.

What should I bear in mind when considering the F SI1 stone? I have otherwise been in the "VS2 or better" camp and want to make sure I am getting a reasonable price and thinking critically. (And I feel like a snob for saying this, but I can't shake the idea that a good diamond should be at least a VS2. Talk me down if you can!) I will try to strongly consider the H VS2 as well but worry that I am pretty sensitive to color and may be unable to unsee the contrast with the F.

Tl;dr -- How do I know if an SI1 is a good stone I won't regret, versus what should I keep holding out for?

Are you committed to this particular jeweler? If it’s not a rush, wait.

 

[philodendron]

Are you committed to this particular jeweler? If it’s not a rush, wait.

I do have a small deposit down with this jeweler but no, not a rush to buy. Do you have a particular thought process about SI1 stones? (e.g., avoid at all costs vs proceed only with certain criteria)

 

[lovedogs]

SI1s are often safe choices, depending on what the inclusions are, where they are located, etc.

 

[oncrutchesrightnow]

I do have a small deposit down with this jeweler but no, not a rush to buy. Do you have a particular thought process about SI1 stones? (e.g., avoid at all costs vs proceed only with certain criteria)

proceed with other criteria.

 

[twosanguinehearts]

First time poster here! I am early in the process of making a custom diamond ring and want to get your input before going in to see a couple stones my jeweler selected that land within my price range. In short, I am making a three stone round diamond ring in platinum with a planned ~1.5ct center. I had envisioned at least G color and at least VS2 clarity. The current options from my jeweler are both excellent cut a) F SI1 and b) H VS2. I don't yet have pics or certificates.

What should I bear in mind when considering the F SI1 stone? I have otherwise been in the "VS2 or better" camp and want to make sure I am getting a reasonable price and thinking critically. (And I feel like a snob for saying this, but I can't shake the idea that a good diamond should be at least a VS2. Talk me down if you can!) I will try to strongly consider the H VS2 as well but worry that I am pretty sensitive to color and may be unable to unsee the contrast with the F.

Tl;dr -- How do I know if an SI1 is a good stone I won't regret, versus what should I keep holding out for?

Clarity is the “C” I care the least about - if I don’t notice the inclusion in person, and if it’s not impacting the stone’s performance, I’d rather not pay more for something I can’t see!

 

[Diamond Girl 21]

It's very personal. I'm a VS1 and above person, but again, that's just my preference. I think you should look at diamonds with different clarity grades, in different lighting, at different angles and different lengths from your eyes to determine your preference.

Asking yourself these questions might be helpful.

If you see an inclusion with your naked eyes, will it bother you?

Will the color of the inclusion bother you? Ie: clear or white (preferable) vs gray, black, or another color (less preferable); consider if it will still bother you if you could only see those inclusions with a loupe. Also consider if it's a darker inclusion but it can only be seen with a loupe, will it still bother you just knowing it's there?

If you get the diamond home and you think it's eye clean, but you eventually discover you can see a little something at a certain angle, will it bother you?

I personally hate thinking a diamond is eye to me, only to discover something later on. I can't unseen the inclusions. That's why I recommend really learning your personal tolerances for all the 4 Cs.

Take your time and enjoy the experience.

 

[philodendron]

It's very personal. I'm a VS1 and above person, but again, that's just my preference. I think you should look at diamonds with different clarity grades, in different lighting, at different angles and different lengths from your eyes to determine your preference.

Asking yourself these questions might be helpful.

If you see an inclusion with your naked eyes, will it bother you?

Will the color of the inclusion bother you? Ie: clear or white (preferable) vs gray, black, or another color (less preferable); consider if it will still bother you if you could only see those inclusions with a loupe. Also consider if it's a darker inclusion but it can only be seen with a loupe, will it still bother you just knowing it's there?

If you get the diamond home and you think it's eye clean, but you eventually discover you can see a little something at a certain angle, will it bother you?

I personally hate thinking a diamond is eye to me, only to discover something later on. I can't unseen the inclusions. That's why I recommend really learning your personal tolerances for all the 4 Cs.

Take your time and enjoy the experience.

This is so thorough and considerate. Thank you for taking the time to write this! Anything in my price range will have inclusions under a loupe, but what resonates for me in your post is the potential of not being able to unsee an inclusion with my naked eye, in various lights/settings/etc.

 

[Diamond Girl 21]

This is so thorough and considerate. Thank you for taking the time to write this! Anything in my price range will have inclusions under a loupe, but what resonates for me in your post is the potential of not being able to unsee an inclusion with my naked eye, in various lights/settings/etc.

You're welcome! Please come back and post pics when you find your diamond.

 

[Daimond001]

I think we need to remind 'Phil' that the CUT is very important. Even an untrained eye sees the difference between a diamond that's cut well vs. poorly.

I can't over emphasize enough the point to see for yourself the differences and see what you can see/live with. 'Eye clean' is great for most people, but others demand IF. Some must have 'icy cold' D, others see no difference with H. We're all different.

Please, please, please look at many diamonds to see what YOU like!

Good luck!

Frank

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I will say that I prefer VS2 and higher on diamonds, especially for a ring. It's partly mental, but I just want great cut, at least near colorless, and VS2+ clarity.

Aside from that, I agree with the poster above that cut is the most important factor. Unfortunately, most GIA diamonds are graded excellent, so you have to narrow them down another way. Do you have copies of the GIA reports on the two stones? What we'd need to know are these four numbers from each report: table, depth, crown angle, pavilion angle.

From there we can tell you if either stone is worth considering. And we can tell you if the price is fair by looking at some comps.

 

[DejaWiz]

Hello and welcome to PriceScope, philodendron!

I'll echo what the others have said: clarity is usually not a bother for most folks as long as any inclusions aren't visible without magnification or impacts the transparency of the diamond. The benefit of an eye-clean VS2 or SI1 is a significantly lower price tag at the cash register, which is easily justifiable for most folks since saving money is almost always a good thing.

For others, more priority is placed on clarity because, aside from being clean to the eyes, their diamond must also be clean to the mind. The obvious trade-off is going to be a noticable price jump for those higher clarity grades, but that justification is easy in the form of peace of mind.

It's entirely up to you, the buyer with the wallet being opened, to determine what you're comfortable with.

If you do venture into the VS2-SI1 grades, then be very aware of certain grade-setting inclusions to avoid, no matter the cost savings. Clouds are the most critical...if the grading report has any comments along the lines of "clarity based on clouds not shown" or clouds being the first clarity characteristic listed and the inclusion plot shows moderate to heavy clouding, then we recommend to avoid those diamonds no matter what.

Here is a great resource that will provide further details about clarity:

Diamond Clarity: Everything You Need To Know

What is the best diamond clarity? Our extensive guide and interactive diamond clarity chart shows you everything you need to know.

www.pricescope.com

 

[MMtwo]

I would consider an eye clean Si1, but generally I hunt down a VS or VSS because I have anxiety issues

Really, an eye clean Si1 can be a great choice in the pocketbook.

 

[OneKuhlChic]

First time poster here! I am early in the process of making a custom diamond ring and want to get your input before going in to see a couple stones my jeweler selected that land within my price range. In short, I am making a three stone round diamond ring in platinum with a planned ~1.5ct center. I had envisioned at least G color and at least VS2 clarity. The current options from my jeweler are both excellent cut a) F SI1 and b) H VS2. I don't yet have pics or certificates.

What should I bear in mind when considering the F SI1 stone? I have otherwise been in the "VS2 or better" camp and want to make sure I am getting a reasonable price and thinking critically. (And I feel like a snob for saying this, but I can't shake the idea that a good diamond should be at least a VS2. Talk me down if you can!) I will try to strongly consider the H VS2 as well but worry that I am pretty sensitive to color and may be unable to unsee the contrast with the F.

Tl;dr -- How do I know if an SI1 is a good stone I won't regret, versus what should I keep holding out for?

Hello.
When I was looking for a diamond for my e-ring, a jeweler told me that there's nothing wrong with an SI1 or even SI2 so long as the stone is eye clean when looking at the table.

My diamond has a GIA cert, is 1.51 round brilliant SI2, color H, excellent cut, no fluorescence, and has very few clear inclusions - no dark specks at all.
My e-ring is also a 3-stone, the side stones are marquis diamonds, 38 points and 37 points, SI1, color G, eye clean without dark inclusions. I always receive compliments on my ring.

I will say that I recently compared my e-ring to my diamond earrings, color E and was able to see a difference between the color E and H.

I'm also a frugal shopper, I like quality at a reasonable cost. As such, so long as the stone(s) face-up eye clean and have clear inclusions, go with the SI1 color F diamond. This way the color is awesome and you can put more $$ into the side stones. If there are dark inclusions, be sure they can be hidden under ring prongs!!!

Addendum:
Do what I did, find a jeweler who doesn't have any skin in the game. This way you can obtain their honest opinion as there's no financial gain for the jeweler.

 

[MamaBee]

My daughter-in-law is on her second SI1. I thought I would be able to see the inclusions but I can’t…in either of them. The first one was an F..This one is a G. She went up in size..so I thought for sure I would see the inclusions. It’s a gorgeous sparkly eye clean diamond. Her friend’s family owns a jewelry store so they found her a beautiful eye clean SI1. My MRB engagement ring is a VS1…but I also own a perfectly eye clean cushion cut SI2. Depending on the locations of the inclusions..some SI1s are better than VS2s. It just depends on what kind of inclusions..the number, and locations they are in. Look at it carefully in person. Does your jeweler have a good return policy?

 

[Julie C]

I'm brand new here and can only share my experience from last week. We had picked out what we thought was an amazing diamond, H color, excellent cut, VVS2 etc...all good on the GIA report, no inclusions. After posting here, I found out that the HCA report was horrible and the diamond would not be sparkly or give off any fire. I thought we had picked out the best diamond based on the GIA cert. We were wrong! PS members gave me other choices based on our budget and we went down to a VS1. I thought it was going to be a huge mistake, but they were 1000000% right! My new diamond is so sparkly, gives off amazing fire and we are in love with it! I suggest posting all the info here and let the experts here guide you, they have nothing to gain. We had been working with Blue Nile and a nice healthy budget and the people here knew more than the "diamond expert" at Blue Nile. We are so glad we asked the questions and had them help us. You can't go wrong here. Take your time, is the best advice. I was in such a hurry and I'm glad we waited patiently....well not so patiently.

 

[KristyDarling]

I own an SI2 in a step cut and I don't sweat it. It's completely eye clean and the inclusions do not affect performance or structural integrity whatsoever....and it allowed me to get a much larger stone than my budget would've allowed. Color, on the other hand, is totally personal so that's up to you. Cut is the 'C' that means the most in terms of your diamond's liveliness and performance, so that's where I would avoid making major compromises. Good luck!

 

[AnastasiaBeaverhausen]

Personally SI1 is totally fine if it's eye-clean; that's good enough for me. But I'm also of the camp that while cut is important, it's really ok to compromise a tad there.

In my case, I once compared an ACA I/SI with the excellent cut E/VS2 center from my e-ring. I was surprised how much more I loved the sparkle of my e-ring more than the ACA. Turns out color was more important to me than I thought.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is, if you see a stone IRL and you love it, then that's the one for you! The specs come secondary (as long as the price is fair, etc. etc.). And it might turn out that neither stone speaks to you and that's ok too!

 

[philodendron]

Wow, you all have exceeded the expectations I had with coming to the internet for advice. This is all incredibly helpful and nuanced.

I get to see the stones in a week and will report back to y'all with the info and my gut feelings. I think I could live with a visible inclusion which could be obscured by the setting and not affect light performance. Even if I am totally wowed, I won't commit on the spot, and regardless I will do some more asking my jeweler about the give and take within my budget to optimize the 4 C's.

The return policy sits well with me, so no worries there -- though for obvious reasons I want to get things right on the first go. In semi-retrospect I wonder if I would be better served by working with a larger-scale jeweler where I could compare lots of stones in front of me at once (less of a boutique-style operation than I currently have), but the advantage here is that I am not pressed for time.

 

[KristyDarling]

Personally SI1 is totally fine if it's eye-clean; that's good enough for me. But I'm also of the camp that while cut is important, it's really ok to compromise a tad there.

In my case, I once compared an ACA I/SI with the excellent cut E/VS2 center from my e-ring. I was surprised how much more I loved the sparkle of my e-ring more than the ACA. Turns out color was more important to me than I thought.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is, if you see a stone IRL and you love it, then that's the one for you! The specs come secondary (as long as the price is fair, etc. etc.). And it might turn out that neither stone speaks to you and that's ok too!

ITA! My original e-ring is a mere Good cut (GIA) and we paid waaaay more than we should've for it. This was years before PS existed. But several years later I took it to a well-respected appraiser frequently used by PSers, and she said the light return was excellent and the stone was very fiery, despite its Good cut rating. Numbers and angles can tell you a lot about a stone's performance, but your eyes are the ultimate judge. You can trust them!

 

[AnastasiaBeaverhausen]

But several years later I took it to a well-respected appraiser frequently used by PSers, and she said the light return was excellent and the stone was very fiery, despite its Good cut rating.

Same! My then-FI insisted on buying from a brick-and-mortsar store, so the "best" I could do was pick a stone that had all the "right" numbers. Then one day, a jeweler was louping my ring and went, "Wow, this is actually really nice." Um, thanks? Lol.

 

[OneKuhlChic]

Wow, you all have exceeded the expectations I had with coming to the internet for advice. This is all incredibly helpful and nuanced.

I get to see the stones in a week and will report back to y'all with the info and my gut feelings. I think I could live with a visible inclusion which could be obscured by the setting and not affect light performance. Even if I am totally wowed, I won't commit on the spot, and regardless I will do some more asking my jeweler about the give and take within my budget to optimize the 4 C's.

The return policy sits well with me, so no worries there -- though for obvious reasons I want to get things right on the first go. In semi-retrospect I wonder if I would be better served by working with a larger-scale jeweler where I could compare lots of stones in front of me at once (less of a boutique-style operation than I currently have), but the advantage here is that I am not pressed for time.

Kudos for all your research!!! I'm a research fanatic and wanted to do all my own research!! My husband bought my diamond from a boutique type lapridarist shop. He had several diamonds for us to review, I chose a simple Tiffany style setting, and we made our decision that afternoon.

What was nice is that the owner knew what he was doing and was extremely knowledgeable... Big box mall jewelers are only salesmen and know absolutely nothing about diamonds or gemstones. I think you'll be better served by working with a true jeweler.

BTW: when I picked the brain of a jeweler re: diamonds, we talked by phone as he was in NYC!!!

 

[philodendron]

Reporting back! I had a great time looking at stones with my jeweler. He showed three diamonds -- the 1.5ct F SI1 (which turned out to be very good cut; was otherwise 54% table, 63% depth, 35 crown angle, 40.6 pav angle), the 1.5ct H VS2, and a 1.6(?)ct excellent cut F SI2. I apologize that I didn't take down specs on all the stones, but off the cuff, here are some thoughts--

- All three stones were gorgeous. The H was a bit too warm for my taste and I quickly crossed it off.
- Both the H and the 1.6ct F had amazing fire (hearts and arrows) and general light properties.
- The 1.6ct was likely eye-clean for many people's eyes, but I kept seeing two dark inclusions with my naked eye. Realistically, only one inclusion was hideable by a prong, and the other was adjacent to the table and I think would bug me in the long run.
- The 1.5ct F SI1 was gorgeous, and the inclusions really did not faze me (no clouds etc). HCA score is 1.2, FYI. I couldn't shake the comparative fire in the other two stones, though, so this one was not a slam dunk purchase.

In conclusion, if I had seen only the 1.5ct F SI1 I would have been very compelled to buy, but alas I saw the others' light properties and want to keep looking within my budget while still considering this one. Questions:
- Short of seeing a stone in person, how can you quantify that hearts and arrows look by dimensions or otherwise?
- How much should I read into excellent vs very good cut?
- Interestingly, the 1.6ct F and the 1.5ct H with the great light properties were each ~60% table. This is bigger than the 54-57% I see discussed as ideal. Is there a safe tradeoff of dimensions to consider here? (i.e., when is it "safe" to buy a 60% table?) To my naked eye, that 60% table stone had better fire than the 54% table stone, save for a couple unfortunately placed inclusions.

Overall, it was an enlightening and low pressure session. Jeweler is going to keep his eyes open at an upcoming vendor event, with the potential to have some options we would need to make a quick decision about (and I may not be able to see in person). Otherwise, I am willing to be very patient with this purchase.

 

[DejaWiz]

philodendron, true H&A is a result of extremely precise symmetry and proportions stemming from meticulous cut precision.

In a nutshell, more fire is usually a byproduct of a slightly shallower pavilion angle paired with a slightly steeper crown angle with a smaller table and star facets around 50-55%, which also results in a taller crown height.

Here are some guaranteed super ideal cut diamonds with true H&A for the sake of comparison:

Diamond | 1.540 ct H VS2 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4488325

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 1.540 carat H color VS2 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4488325

www.whiteflash.com

Diamond | 1.520 ct H SI1 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4492526

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 1.520 carat H color SI1 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4492526

www.whiteflash.com

For the three that you viewed, we could really help by seeing the grading reports as well as some pictures and videos (including ASET or Ideal-Scope images, if possible). We would love to help you out further and ensure you are getting the best performing diamond that your money can buy.

 

[Diamond Girl 21]

Reporting back! I had a great time looking at stones with my jeweler. He showed three diamonds -- the 1.5ct F SI1 (which turned out to be very good cut; was otherwise 54% table, 63% depth, 35 crown angle, 40.6 pav angle), the 1.5ct H VS2, and a 1.6(?)ct excellent cut F SI2. I apologize that I didn't take down specs on all the stones, but off the cuff, here are some thoughts--

- All three stones were gorgeous. The H was a bit too warm for my taste and I quickly crossed it off.
- Both the H and the 1.6ct F had amazing fire (hearts and arrows) and general light properties.
- The 1.6ct was likely eye-clean for many people's eyes, but I kept seeing two dark inclusions with my naked eye. Realistically, only one inclusion was hideable by a prong, and the other was adjacent to the table and I think would bug me in the long run.
- The 1.5ct F SI1 was gorgeous, and the inclusions really did not faze me (no clouds etc). HCA score is 1.2, FYI. I couldn't shake the comparative fire in the other two stones, though, so this one was not a slam dunk purchase.

In conclusion, if I had seen only the 1.5ct F SI1 I would have been very compelled to buy, but alas I saw the others' light properties and want to keep looking within my budget while still considering this one. Questions:
- Short of seeing a stone in person, how can you quantify that hearts and arrows look by dimensions or otherwise?
- How much should I read into excellent vs very good cut?
- Interestingly, the 1.6ct F and the 1.5ct H with the great light properties were each ~60% table. This is bigger than the 54-57% I see discussed as ideal. Is there a safe tradeoff of dimensions to consider here? (i.e., when is it "safe" to buy a 60% table?) To my naked eye, that 60% table stone had better fire than the 54% table stone, save for a couple unfortunately placed inclusions.

Overall, it was an enlightening and low pressure session. Jeweler is going to keep his eyes open at an upcoming vendor event, with the potential to have some options we would need to make a quick decision about (and I may not be able to see in person). Otherwise, I am willing to be very patient with this purchase.

Looking at numbers and grades is a great place to start, but choose with your eyes and heart, ie what looks best to you and makes your heart skip a beat. Nothing wrong with a 60/60 style diamond if that is what you prefer. I would recommend looking at all types of diamonds in various lighting conditions, including natural, to make sure you still prefer one style over another.

 

[Diamond Girl 21]

philodendron, true H&A is a result of extremely precise symmetry and proportions stemming from meticulous cut precision.

In a nutshell, more fire is usually a byproduct of a slightly shallower pavilion angle paired with a slightly steeper crown angle with a smaller table and star facets around 50-55%, which also results in a taller crown height.

Here are some guaranteed super ideal cut diamonds with true H&A for the sake of comparison:

Diamond | 1.540 ct H VS2 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4488325

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 1.540 carat H color VS2 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4488325

www.whiteflash.com

Diamond | 1.520 ct H SI1 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4492526

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 1.520 carat H color SI1 clarity loose diamond is graded by the American Gem Society (AGS) Laboratories. | 4492526

www.whiteflash.com

For the three that you viewed, we could really help by seeing the grading reports as well as some pictures and videos (including ASET or Ideal-Scope images, if possible). We would love to help you out further and ensure you are getting the best performing diamond that your money can buy.

Deja has given you great advice, you should definitely check out the diamonds he recommended. Just remember to let your personal preferences be your guide.

I personally prefer diamonds that fit into the ideal category, but push to the edge a bit (ie: 57 to 58 table, and a little deeper pavilion angle, around but not below 41, paired with a 34 crown angle if the pavilion is 41. These angles can also produce very fiery diamonds. It really depends on the combination of all the angles and how they work together. The problem is that those angles are riskier and so not recommended very often. Remember to trust your eyes.

Edited to add Deja picked some H colored diamonds. There are high (closer to G) and low (closer to I) colored diamonds that your rep can compare for you. Happy shopping!

 

[yssie]

Sorry to interrupt this thread, but… I have to ask…

I own an SI2 in a step cut and I don't sweat it. It's completely eye clean and the inclusions do not affect performance or structural integrity whatsoever....and it allowed me to get a much larger stone than my budget would've allowed. Color, on the other hand, is totally personal so that's up to you. Cut is the 'C' that means the most in terms of your diamond's liveliness and performance, so that's where I would avoid making major compromises. Good luck!

Have we seen his new step cut @KristyDarling!???

Sooooo… After learning that you had @ksluice’s stone on hold for a bit - I’ve got a membership to the KD ECs fan club… So what’d you get what’d you get are we there yet

 

[adlgel]

The other best practice when shopping for diamonds in person is to look at them in multiple lighting scenarios and not just under the jeweler’s showroom lights.

 

[KristyDarling]

Sorry to interrupt this thread, but… I have to ask…


Have we seen his new step cut @KristyDarling!???

Sooooo… After learning that you had @ksluice’s stone on hold for a bit - I’ve got a membership to the KD ECs fan club… So what’d you get what’d you get are we there yet

It's with Caysie. Should be a couple of months, I think! . (Sorry for the threadjack, OP!)

 

[yssie]

It's with Caysie. Should be a couple of months, I think! . (Sorry for the threadjack, OP!)

Can’t wait to see it done!!

Okay, back to regular programming, apologies for the small detour!!