Tourmaline vs. emerald for green gem

[pregcurious]

I have some questions, but I feel kind of stupid for asking them--please bear with me. I have my eye on a blue-green tourmaline, but my heart is set on an emerald because of the glow. However, the blue-green tourmaline is much more affordable. My goal is to to have a green stone ring. Tsavorite garnet seems to soft for me (Mohs hardnes 6.5-7).

1) Which is more durable? I know technically emerald has a higher Mohs hardness of 7.5-8 versus 7-7.5, but emerald seems less durable in terms of being able to take a blow. Is this correct?

2) Emerald as that glow. How does tourmaline compare? I know it depends on the axis on which it is cut. Does tourmaline black out in certain conditions?

 

[T L]

I have some questions, but I feel kind of stupid for asking them--please bear with me. I have my eye on a blue-green tourmaline, but my heart is set on an emerald because of the glow. However, the blue-green tourmaline is much more affordable. My goal is to to have a green stone ring. Tsavorite garnet seems to soft for me (Mohs hardnes 6.5-7).

1) Which is more durable? I know technically emerald has a higher Mohs hardness of 7.5-8 versus 7-7.5, but emerald seems less durable in terms of being able to take a blow. Is this correct?

2) Emerald as that glow. How does tourmaline compare? I know it depends on the axis on which it is cut. Does tourmaline black out in certain conditions?

Some blue/green tourmaline does black out. You want to make sure that the table isn't cut with the closed axis that some tourmaline have. There are some blue/green tourmaline with an open axis that do not black out.

That being said, I think a nice "open" blue green tourmaline is a nice substitute for a lighter blue/green emerald. You will not however find a blue green tourmaline that can rival the green color of a superfine emerald, but those stones are incredibly rare and expensive. They also have a sheen or glow about them that tourmaline cannot duplicate, but in lighter stones, I think it's less evident.

I think tsavorite can be a nice substitute too for a nice emerald, and they are more durable than tourmaline IMHO. Some tsavorite also black out, so just be aware of that. I have some mint garnets that can look like lighter emeralds too. Tsavorites do not have that same sheen as a fine emerald either, but they sparkle more, so that's something to think about. They sparkle more than tourmaline as well.

 

[chrono]

I've often heard that the only stupid questions are the ones not asked.

When it comes to the glow, no other green stone rivals the emerald partly due to the chromium content and the internal crystal structure. The only other stone that comes close is a tsavorite or green garnet. They have the elusive hint of blue, is reasonably durable as a right hand ring stone with care, and although not satiny, it sparkles like crazy. A well cut tsavorite or one that isn't too dark will not black out.

Green tourmaline will be a distant second choice. Many have a closed C axis but the few that are open and bright are very expensive and difficult to find. Good ones and also not overly dark will not black out. Unfortunately, tourmaline chips more easily and has lower RI than garnets. They also do not glow like emeralds.

The durability of the emerald will depend on the treatment, level of treatment and the clarity.

 

[pregcurious]

Thanks, LD and Chrono. You've given me a lot to think about. I dread stones blacking out, which is why I favor emerald...plus the glow. Wow, I love that glow. Still, it sounds like I should give tsavorites a chance since they also come in green with a blue secondary.

I think I need to start going to gem shows and seeing as many green stones as possible before buying one. In the other sapphire thread, I finally felt comfortable enough to suggest a stone because I've seen several sapphires in person, and we've also had so many educational threads on sapphires since Princess Catherine's engagement. For green stones, however, I feel very unsure.

 

[minousbijoux]

Wait! wait! Please don't give up on tourmaline yet! It is an excellent idea for you to go to shows as you've suggested. While I agree with previous comments, we may *think* we know what you mean by your liking the "glow," but it might just be that you can find a medium-toned, saturated, bluish green tourmaline with an open C that will make your heart sing. Of course, it also depends on the frequency with which you plan on wearing it, as tourmaline is pretty chipable (alway into creating new gem-related lexicon ).

I agree with TL that most tourmalines as I've described them are uncommon and pricey, but I don't believe they rival a glowy emerald in price and if they are smaller - say under 3 cts - you can occasionally find one of good price. You probably already do, but after you go to some shows, you might want to check Jeff Davies and Jason Brim, as they seem to have tourmalines fairly often.

For full disclosure purposes, I have to say that despite my diligent efforts, I have yet to see IRL an untreated emerald of substantial size that made my heart sing. I know they exist, as TL has documented them from time to time with great photos - and we've seen examples from our own members as well. But I don't think it will be easy to see many firsthand examples of untreated, or lightly treated, stones.

But include us in your hunt! These are my favorites to search for! Love Tsavs and Merelanis! Love bluish green and greenish blue tourms! Love the glowy emeralds I've seen here and the baby ones I own!

 

[LD]

I have some questions, but I feel kind of stupid for asking them--please bear with me. I have my eye on a blue-green tourmaline, but my heart is set on an emerald because of the glow. However, the blue-green tourmaline is much more affordable. My goal is to to have a green stone ring. Tsavorite garnet seems to soft for me (Mohs hardnes 6.5-7).

1) Which is more durable? I know technically emerald has a higher Mohs hardness of 7.5-8 versus 7-7.5, but emerald seems less durable in terms of being able to take a blow. Is this correct?

2) Emerald as that glow. How does tourmaline compare? I know it depends on the axis on which it is cut. Does tourmaline black out in certain conditions?

Some blue/green tourmaline does black out. You want to make sure that the table isn't cut with the closed axis that some tourmaline have. There are some blue/green tourmaline with an open axis that do not black out.

That being said, I think a nice "open" blue green tourmaline is a nice substitute for a lighter blue/green emerald. You will not however find a blue green tourmaline that can rival the green color of a superfine emerald, but those stones are incredibly rare and expensive. They also have a sheen or glow about them that tourmaline cannot duplicate, but in lighter stones, I think it's less evident.

I think tsavorite can be a nice substitute too for a nice emerald, and they are more durable than tourmaline IMHO. Some tsavorite also black out, so just be aware of that. I have some mint garnets that can look like lighter emeralds too. Tsavorites do not have that same sheen as a fine emerald either, but they sparkle more, so that's something to think about. They sparkle more than tourmaline as well.

This! Nothing beats an Emerald. I have very rarely seen a Tsav that matches an Emerald. Only very very very few but as TL has said the glow is missing but you get sparkle instead.

 

[pregcurious]

Hmm. Okay, I want the glow, and will sacrifice size. My holy grail is to have a red, green and blue stones. Red is done. For blue, I know I want a cushion sapphire. For green, I want a step cut something, and I think I want that glow to experience that property in a stone. I'll have to go to Intergem because that's the only place where I'll see all three stones in close proximity.

 

[chrono]

If you want the perfect medium dark slightly bluish green, untreated, clean and all the works, be prepared to pay $$$$. It will cost much more than a tsavorite of the same colouration and clarity.

 

[minousbijoux]

Preg: also decide whether you want green, bluish green, or greenish blue. That will obviously drive the type of stone you seek as well.

 

[pregcurious]

If you want the perfect medium dark slightly bluish green, untreated, clean and all the works, be prepared to pay $$$$. It will cost much more than a tsavorite of the same colouration and clarity.

This is my fear. I only have so much budget for jewelry, and if I blow it all on one thing, I cannot do anything for a long time. For a while, I was buying something every 6 months, and I had to stop. I learned it's better to wait and be picky.

I want green, with a blue modifier, or bluish green.

 

[minousbijoux]

If you want the perfect medium dark slightly bluish green, untreated, clean and all the works, be prepared to pay $$$$. It will cost much more than a tsavorite of the same colouration and clarity.

This is my fear. I only have so much budget for jewelry, and if I blow it all on one thing, I cannot do anything for a long time. For a while, I was buying something every 6 months, and I had to stop. I learned it's better to wait and be picky.

I want green, with a blue modifier, or bluish green.

This is really helpful, as it knocks out a lot of stones. I bet you'll find that you knock out tsavorite and lighter tsavorite or Merelanis because while the good ones have a blue component, even those do not truly show the bluish in all lighting conditions, so there will be times it reads as green (or a really minimal bluish tint to the green).

Emerald will definitely have the greatest saturation and glow to the bluish green IMO, but only if you drop good money, which it sounds like you're willing to do. Tourmaline will not approach the saturation of a glowy emerald, though good ones can be bright bluish green. I should see if I can dig up some pics, as I went through a stage, where I went crazy collecting them. I've sold several, but still have some good examples at the bank. But again, you are right in that you need to see them first hand. You're not in the Bay Area, are you?

 

[pregcurious]

Unfortunately, I'm in the DC Metro area. Thank you very much for the offer--I really appreciate it. Pics would be great.

I want to avoid leaf green (any yellow secondary), but I realized recently that I'm not very good at reading secondary colors unless I sit there with paint chips.

I know there's always some color shift. For tsavs, I like Pandora's. I saw a bluish green tourmaline at Bergdorf Goodman that had an amazing saturated bluish green color. Every since, I've seen nothing comparable in a tourmaline. For emeralds, Sarahbear's is a wonderful color, but I could be happy with less blue if it had a glow. There's some room for compromise.

 

[LD]

Preg you've described exactly what I like also! I find most Tsavs (and certainly the best ones like Pandoras) to be too dark for me and missing the amount of blue I need. I do own a few Tsavs but I can take them or leave them.

Interestingly really gorgeous green tourmalines with blue are actually quite difficult to find in the exact colour match. They tend to be too yellow or too blue.

I think it's a great idea going to Intergem but I'd also suggest scoping out Embassy Emeralds. They're quite reasonably priced and there have been at least 2 happy customers who have bought from them recently. What you might find is that you may need to get a slightly smaller gem to match budget and colour but it'll be worth it.

I'm looking forward to hearing about your search.

 

[pregcurious]

Thanks, LD. This will probably take a _long time_, considering how long it's taking me to do my reset. I did the first round in 2009 (?), and I'm finally getting around to doing it again. Thanks for the suggestion of Embassy.

 

[minousbijoux]

Embassy Emeralds is a good suggestion. Did you see the recent thread where someone found a gorgeous emerald from them? IIRC, it definitely had the glow. I don't recall it reading as bluish green, but it was definitely a lovely emerald.

 

[minousbijoux]

One more thing - now that I know the color you're looking for, I don't think I have anything that would float your boat, as none of my tourmalines are bluish green, but instead greenish blue, which is my weakness.

 

[minousbijoux]

Good Morning, Preg! Happened to be looking around and found this this morning. I don't know why, but I'm into the hunt for you I don't expect this is the one, but how does this compare with the color your shooting for? Its about 8 mm square, which is bigger than you seek. In other photos, it looks more bluish. This will help me search for you, and maybe clinch it that you are really looking for an emerald which has the glow...

 

[pregcurious]

Thanks, Minous. I love the shape, but I am looking for more blue. I am definitely going to take my time on this to see a lot of gems before buying anything, but thank you for the suggestion. I searched several years for my red spinel, and part of it is that I enjoy the hunt. My goal is to see as many green stones as possible in person to first hone my taste.

 

[LD]

Minou that stone has loads of yellow (to my eye). I see where you're coming from but I think Preg is right to pass it by.

 

[chrono]

Interesting that it has yellow on the outside and blue right at the table.

 

[minousbijoux]

I agree, but I wanted Preg to tell us that. I couldn't tell from her posts whether it was truly green she sought or bluish green and now I know