Tourmaline

[pwsg07]

Some questions on tourmaline:

Why is the open C-axis important to tourmaline? How can I tell my faceted tourmaline has open C-axis?

What is seafoam and lagoon colour? Any examples?

Thank you.

 

[lilmosun]

Seafoam and lagoon are descriptives that can vary by vendor.

I have some tourmalines from Yvonne that she calls "lagoon blue"...and even those have slight variations in color/saturation to my eye. I bought my first pair (set with the diamond center) and was so hooked by the open bright color that I asked her if she could find more lol. I think seafoam is greener.

 

[lilmosun]

The color looked more accurate on my phone than on my laptop (where they look more like aquas or topaz which is not how they look IRL lol)...problem with all pictures...ymmv in terms of accuracy depending on your monitor

 

[pwsg07]

Seafoam and lagoon are descriptives that can vary by vendor.

I have some tourmalines from Yvonne that she calls "lagoon blue"...and even those have slight variations in color/saturation to my eye. I bought my first pair (set with the diamond center) and was so hooked by the open bright color that I asked her if she could find more lol. I think seafoam is greener.

Is this colour untreated? Nowadays, a lot of tourmalines are treated. Heated or Radiated

 

[normanintheskywithsapphires]

I always look out for any sea-foam in our Baltic waters but it never looks like what google says is seafoam:

Perhaps it is water after a chemical leak?
One may imagine some tropical coral waters like that but FOAM?

 

[chrono]

If cut with a closed C-axis, the two ends end up really dark. If cut to show an open C-axis, the tourmaline will be evenly bright througout.

Seafoam and lagoon are descriptors. I just look for a colour I like. I go by greenish blue or bluish green, depending on the primary hue I want. Then I adjust whether I prefer it to be slightly GB or slightly BG.

 

[pwsg07]

Where are the canary yellow tourmalines? When I went to the gem show 13 years ago, there are plenty of them in the show. But I don't see any vendor selling them now.

 

[lilmosun]

Is this colour untreated? Nowadays, a lot of tourmalines are treated. Heated or Radiated

Not radiated but I assume low heat.

If cut with a closed C-axis, the two ends end up really dark. If cut to show an open C-axis, the tourmaline will be evenly bright througout.

Seafoam and lagoon are descriptors. I just look for a colour I like. I go by greenish blue or bluish green, depending on the primary hue I want. Then I adjust whether I prefer it to be slightly GB or slightly BG.

I agree on shopping for color. Mine spoke to me because I fixate on BG/GB stones, especially GB..and these are super bright.

Thanks for the explanation, on the c-axis. When taking photos, I noticed the darker ends on my smaller pair which shows what you describe as closed. Because of their brightness, it wasn't as apparent until I looked closely. Like tilt windows on my pre-PS elongated stones, I have to pretend I don't see it

 

[PrecisionGem]

Not radiated but I assume low heat.



I agree on shopping for color. Mine spoke to me because I fixate on BG/GB stones, especially GB..and these are super bright.

Thanks for the explanation, on the c-axis. When taking photos, I noticed the darker ends on my smaller pair which shows what you describe as closed. Because of their brightness, it wasn't as apparent until I looked closely. Like tilt windows on my pre-PS elongated stones, I have to pretend I don't see it

I don't think your stones have a closed C axis. Closed C axis tourmaline are totally black when viewed down the C axis, and unless these are cut with very steep perpendicular facets on the ends the whole stone goes very very dark.
In tourmaline, very often the C axis is a different hue than the other axis of the stones, sometimes a nice hue that adds to the stone, sometimes not so nice. So when cutting you need to take this into account and use a design that either brings more of this axis into the stone or less.

 

[Arkteia]

I think I have such a stone, a closed C-axis, and while it is of my favorite color, and saturated, basically, (?)opposed-bar cut is a giveaway. The cut plays on alternating bright and dark spots. Sadly, I am thinking about recutting it into two smaller ones, for earrings, to minimize the effect of dead areas alternating with bright ones, as this is good for a young girl going to rave parties, someone who is in constant motion, then the effect is fun, not for me...

 

[Arkteia]

(Not the stone i posted about, a different one). This one is different - i don't think it has closed C-axis. Or it might, but I don't care, because visually it is beautiful. And also, someone is a good cutter. This one may have some darkness on the end, but minimal, I can not take good photos as my temp camera is very meh but maybe this one will give an idea. About treatment I don't know I assume they all are, to a degree

Another thought - this stone is visible across the room. When people see it and compliment you, it is fine. When you need to move so that the pendant is hanging in the air for the people to notice it (because if it lies on your chest, the color is dead), then closed C-axis becomes a problem...

 

[T L]

Example of closed c-axis. Face up view, the stone is bright (not in all cases however), but through the c-axis on its side, it's almost black (closed). This stone was cut to show optimal light through its best axis, but some tourmaline are cut in such a way that part or all of the c-axis faces up, and therefore shows significant extinction.

 

[pwsg07]

Here is the tourmaline I have commissioned. I will post my iPhone photos. Any comment based on this photo?

 

[Gemobsessed]

Lovely !! Who is the vendor ?

Here is the tourmaline I have commissioned. I will post my iPhone photos. Any comment based on this photo?

 

[Torres]

Not radiated but I assume low heat.



I agree on shopping for color. Mine spoke to me because I fixate on BG/GB stones, especially GB..and these are super bright.

Thanks for the explanation, on the c-axis. When taking photos, I noticed the darker ends on my smaller pair which shows what you describe as closed. Because of their brightness, it wasn't as apparent until I looked closely. Like tilt windows on my pre-PS elongated stones, I have to pretend I don't see it

Do you have any lab report attesting the stones are not radiated and only low heat? Or its just wishful thinking? We know Yvonne dont like to get lab report for her stones, even the more expensive ones, although she lives near AGL.

 

[T L]

Here is the tourmaline I have commissioned. I will post my iPhone photos. Any comment based on this photo?

It looks lovely, but some tourmaline goes more extinct in various light sources. When evaluating tourmaline, or almost any gem, one should ask for pics in sunlight, fluorescent light and regular incandescent light.

 

[pwsg07]

Here is my photo.

The stone is close to eye clean. I don't have the skill to photograph the inclusion. IRL it looks more like a blue zircon colour than the light green blue in the vendor's photo.

Lovely !! Who is the vendor ?

Jeff White

 

[lilmosun]

I think the stone is beautiful! From your original post, are you questioning it's color, tone or it's brightness (c-axis question)? I think the important thing is what you see IRL and whether the stone "speaks" to you.

(Torres- I am not sure if the intent of your first PS post is to question my stone or Yvonne's integrity. I happen to know Yvonne's source for the stones I posted and I have seen her get lab reports. No vendor gets them for all of their stones and she will get one if the buyer wants to pay for one. Let's not hijack this thread further)

 

[pwsg07]

I think the stone is beautiful! From your original post, are you questioning it's color, tone or it's brightness (c-axis question)? I think the important thing is what you see IRL and whether the stone "speaks" to you.

(Torres- I am not sure if the intent of your first PS post is to question my stone or Yvonne's integrity. I happen to know Yvonne's source for the stones I posted and I have seen her get lab reports. No vendor gets them for all of their stones and she will get one if the buyer wants to pay for one. Let's not hijack this thread further)

I am just discussing tourmaline in general.

I am sort of disappointed because the vendor's photo is quite different than the stone IRL. It is not what I expect from the vendor. However, I will keep the stone since the colour is very saturated. This photo might be more realistic.



I don't mind my thread to be hijack.

 

[chatoyancy]

I am just discussing tourmaline in general.

I am sort of disappointed because the vendor's photo is quite different than the stone IRL. It is not what I expect from the vendor. However, I will keep the stone since the colour is very saturated. This photo might be more realistic.



I don't mind my thread to be hijack.

I don't know what the vendor photo looked like, but that is one of the prettiest blue green tourmalines I've ever seen!

 

[pwsg07]

I don't know what the vendor photo looked like, but that is one of the prettiest blue green tourmalines I've ever seen!

Thank you for your comment. This is the vendor's photo.

 

[lilmosun]

I am sort of disappointed because the vendor's photo is quite different than the stone IRL. It is not what I expect from the vendor. However, I will keep the stone since the colour is very saturated. This photo might be more realistic.

Photos are hard...they can vary depending on lighting, angle, background, quality of the photo and your monitor. Given those factors, I don't see a big difference between the vendor photo and what you have.

From the photos, I would keep the stone in a heartbeat but that is me...I can't stop collecting nice BG/GB stones and like the variety of shades they come in.

What is different between the stone IRL and what you were expecting? Did you expect something lighter in tone? Can you articulate the difference between what you were hoping for and what you see IRL?

It sounds like you are looking for us to convince you to love the stone. If that is the case, you shouldn't keep it even if its beautiful to the rest of us or you think there are reasons you should love/keep it. Don't keep it simply because its well saturated. On the other hand, if you love this stone despite it not being what you expected, keep it...assuming it won't stop you from buying what you were really looking for.

 

[chatoyancy]

Well, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. What's important is whether or not you are happy with it. If you are truly disappointed, you should send it back.

 

[MissyBeaucoup]

I think sometimes you need to live with a stone in different lights for a few days. Expectations create anxiety. Usually vendors can get bright, pretty pictures in the best light. Your stone might look a different kind of pretty in low light, but is it still pretty to you? Does it look good in the light you'll usually be wearing it in? It looks such a pretty color to me and I like how your photo shows the crisp depth of the stone even in lower light. Best wishes in your decision.

 

[Arkteia]

Example of closed c-axis. Face up view, the stone is bright (not in all cases however), but through the c-axis on its side, it's almost black (closed). This stone was cut to show optimal light through its best axis, but some tourmaline are cut in such a way that part or all of the c-axis faces up, and therefore shows significant extinction.

(Cool cut! And color, too). For closed C-axis stones, setting might be an issue. (Although I once saw a beautiful blue closed C-axis stone set in a very simple choker pendant, E-W, with something akin to an aura-type setting semi-closing the back, in WG, and it looked surprisingly nice.)

TO, what else can be done to improve the situation if someone bought a closed C-axis tourmaline but likes the color? If anything? Would a total recut help?

 

[Arkteia]

Thank you for your comment. This is the vendor's photo.

It looks very pretty to me. However, I can not give advises as I know I am not a tourmaline person. But in my light, it would look well.

 

[T L]

(Cool cut! And color, too). For closed C-axis stones, setting might be an issue. (Although I once saw a beautiful blue closed C-axis stone set in a very simple choker pendant, E-W, with something akin to an aura-type setting semi-closing the back, in WG, and it looked surprisingly nice.)

TO what else can be done to improve the situation if someone bought a closed C-axis tourmaline but likes the color? If anything? Would a total recut help?

If you have a bright stone that is cut in such a way that the closed axis is not face up at all, you shouldn't worry about setting it, as you won't see the extinction. This stone, which I've had for years, is one of my favs. I just haven't set it yet because I would have to get a custom setting, as it's 22x7mm, and I can't afford that right now.

Unfortunately, some closed c-axis stoned are not cut for beauty, but to retain size. There's one lapidary that does this all the time, I won't name names, but I've not only seen him cut with closed axis facing up, but some stones have a more saturated axis, and he cuts with the less saturated axis facing up, to save size. I suppose I don't blame some lapidaries when you can charge a lot more for a much bigger stone. Oh and it's not Gene (so don't get mad at me). Lol.

I should note that sometimes a stone must be cut a certain way because of internal fissures, cleavage, etc... lapidary work can be complex and I'm not an expert. However if submitting or commissioning rough for cutting, one should note these things so that the lapidary can preserve as much face up saturation as possible.

 

[Arkteia]

If you have a bright stone that is cut in such a way that the closed axis is not face up at all, you shouldn't worry about setting it, as you won't see the extinction. This stone, which I've had for years, is one of my favs. I just haven't set it yet because I would have to get a custom setting, as it's 22x7mm, and I can't afford that right now.

Unfortunately, some closed c-axis stoned are not cut for beauty, but to retain size. There's one lapidary that does this all the time, I won't name names, but I've not only seen him cut with closed axis facing up, but some stones have a more saturated axis, and he cuts with the less saturated axis facing up, to save size. I suppose I don't blame some lapidaries when you can charge a lot more for a much bigger stone. Oh and it's not Gene (so don't get mad at me). Lol.

I should note that sometimes a stone must be cut a certain way because of internal fissures, cleavage, etc... lapidary work can be complex and I'm not an expert. However if submitting or commissioning rough for cutting, one should note these things so that the lapidary can preserve as much face up saturation as possible.

Great explanation, TL, thank you, you should lecture about stones, you have the gift to explain in an easy way.
(I never suspected it to be Gene. A person who cut such a beautiful flower-like yellow tourmaline would not cut badly, even to retain the weight).

 

[pwsg07]

I like the stone. The stone IRL is much darker in tone than vendor's photo but it still in the medium/medium dark tone. I expect the vendor who does business online can take a more accurate photo. It is like expecting a girl but it comes out to be a boy.

My other question is does the included stone always have a cavity? I observed that there is a cavity on the pavilion. I have not seen other included stones such as paraiba or emerald with a loupe IRL. I cannot tell if it is normal.

 

[elle_71125]

I, personally, love the color of your new Jeff White tourmaline. I think the color looks very similar between the vendor photo and your photo but I understand that things always look different in person. I've had quite a few experiences with being let down once the stone arrives. Personal taste is very subjective. If you don't love it, that's totally ok. As my mom always said (pertaining to yard sales), one man's trash is another man's treasure.

I'm curious what you mean by cavity?

Also, I'd love to know more about the carat size and dimensions so I can list over this properly.